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Convince me to upgrade

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cydwhit
Posts: 5065 - Karma: 42,823
Yo! I'm looking at trying to pursue this journalism/photography thing as I leave college here in May. As part of that I'm re-assesing my gear. Currently I'm shooting with: 7d (mk1) Rokinon 8mm fish, Tokina 11-16, Sigma 18-200 3.5-6.3, as well as a nifty fifty. Honestly, I really like this setup, Only drawbacks I have hit are buffering when I shoot too many photos and lack of a nicer long lens.

I know I need more glass, definitely interested in something like a 70-200 f4, but I'm also wondering if it's time to bite the bullet and go full frame, maybe a 5d Mkii or something.

Right now I'm at 85% photo, 15% video, shooting mainly action sports and a little landscape. Should I be trying to sell my 7d and upgrade?

Financially I'd much rather spend my money traveling to shoot stuff, is that a bad call in this situation?

Any advice would be super helpful, Thanks!
Feb 9 2015 12:41PM
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edai
Posts: 4983 - Karma: 4,632
I don't know much about photography, but if I'm not mistaken aren't most of the lenses (namely the 8mm and tokina (i use the 8mm on a gh2)) used for filming? Seems like maybe you wanna upgrade your glass before you start looking at new bodies. idk man just my .02
Feb 9 2015 12:56PM
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Forcillo
Posts: 3801 - Karma: 3,580
eazy.I don't know much about photography, but if I'm not mistaken aren't most of the lenses (namely the 8mm and tokina (i use the 8mm on a gh2)) used for filming? Seems like maybe you wanna upgrade your glass before you start looking at new bodies. idk man just my .02


Yeah, cause it's against the rules to use lenses for both video and photo...

I think your best bet would honestly get a solid tele before you worry about upgrading your body. The 7D is an awesome camera and although it might be getting a little outdated, so is the 5Dii. If I were in your position, I would get your 70-200, then start thinking about a body upgrade.

Also, the 5Diii's price is gonna go down considerably when the new one comes out, which will in turn lower the price of the 5Dii as well. So waiting might be a good idea anyway.
Feb 9 2015 1:03PM
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boomie
Posts: 1638 - Karma: 3,164
If you go full frame I'll buy your tokina
Feb 9 2015 1:03PM
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cydwhit
Posts: 5065 - Karma: 42,823
ForcilloYeah, cause it's against the rules to use lenses for both video and photo...

I think your best bet would honestly get a solid tele before you worry about upgrading your body. The 7D is an awesome camera and although it might be getting a little outdated, so is the 5Dii. If I were in your position, I would get your 70-200, then start thinking about a body upgrade.

Also, the 5Diii's price is gonna go down considerably when the new one comes out, which will in turn lower the price of the 5Dii as well. So waiting might be a good idea anyway.


Good to hear! Totally forgot about the potential price drop, looks like tax money is going in to glass (or plane tickets)

boomieIf you go full frame I'll buy your tokina


Haha, it's going to take a lot for me to sell that bad boy, I love shooting wide and I have seen some good results from people shooting it full frame at 16mm
Feb 9 2015 1:34PM
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cydwhit
Posts: 5065 - Karma: 42,823
also, say I go for a 70-200, How big of a deal should IS be to me? It looks like the f4 non IS is a steal but I have very little experience with tele-lenses, do I need that IS? If I went for more expensive than the f4 non-IS it looks like I would be able to get either the f4 IS or the f2.8 non IS. Right now I've been fine with the built in IS on the sigma super-zoom I have, which is also running at f8 most of the time so it's temping to go with the f4 non IS and relying on shutter-speed instead of IS. Any input here?
Feb 9 2015 1:52PM
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HarkStudios
Posts: 243 - Karma: 121
cydwhitalso, say I go for a 70-200, How big of a deal should IS be to me? It looks like the f4 non IS is a steal but I have very little experience with tele-lenses, do I need that IS? If I went for more expensive than the f4 non-IS it looks like I would be able to get either the f4 IS or the f2.8 non IS. Right now I've been fine with the built in IS on the sigma super-zoom I have, which is also running at f8 most of the time so it's temping to go with the f4 non IS and relying on shutter-speed instead of IS. Any input here?


Shutter Speed>IS

I recently invested in the Canon 70-200 f4L....
It is awesome! It has some trouble when it comes to very dark situations, but at 1600 iso you are pretty much good. IS will not help unless camera shake is the worry If it is dark and you are trying to capture fast moving action you need 2.8... Shutter Speed>IS

I think that selling the 18-200 and investing in a 70-200 and maybe a 24mm prime 2.8

I know you want to minimize lenses if you are interested in photojournalism (generally) and i think the first to go should be the fisheye honestly, the difference between 8mm and 11mm is not enough to need to carry the extra glass, and with that money you could buy a new 24mm 2.8 pancake,

Thenn, if you can sell the Sigma 18-200 and drop that cash straight into a 70-200f4L and come out of the whole thing maybe having spent 200-300$

When selling lenses, make sure you can get all that they are worth because new glass aint cheap, and good glass is worth it's weight in gold.
Feb 9 2015 5:31PM
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cydwhit
Posts: 5065 - Karma: 42,823
EDolloStoneShutter Speed>IS

I recently invested in the Canon 70-200 f4L....
It is awesome! It has some trouble when it comes to very dark situations, but at 1600 iso you are pretty much good. IS will not help unless camera shake is the worry If it is dark and you are trying to capture fast moving action you need 2.8... Shutter Speed>IS

I think that selling the 18-200 and investing in a 70-200 and maybe a 24mm prime 2.8

I know you want to minimize lenses if you are interested in photojournalism (generally) and i think the first to go should be the fisheye honestly, the difference between 8mm and 11mm is not enough to need to carry the extra glass, and with that money you could buy a new 24mm 2.8 pancake,

Thenn, if you can sell the Sigma 18-200 and drop that cash straight into a 70-200f4L and come out of the whole thing maybe having spent 200-300$

When selling lenses, make sure you can get all that they are worth because new glass aint cheap, and good glass is worth it's weight in gold.


Good to hear.

I wrote a paragraph about why I wouldn't sell the fish or the 18-200 but then I looked up that 24mm and it's basically a cheap lens the size of my body cap which is really tempting. Unfortunately I would be much more likely to drop some money on a good point and shoot than a prime right now, I don't do well with primes and I would like a decent camera that I can fit in a pocket. Still not sure about selling the sigma or the fish since the fish is beat up so it's basically worthless and the sigma was only $200 new. I might just give the fish to my little brother and keep the sigma for one lens only situations..

Are you saying go for the 70-200 F4 L non IS then?

And yeah, I guess some photojournalism but mostly action sports stuff, looks like tax returns might be going into a 70-200....

Thanks for the advice!
Feb 9 2015 5:42PM
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HarkStudios
Posts: 243 - Karma: 121
cydwhitGood to hear.

I wrote a paragraph about why I wouldn't sell the fish or the 18-200 but then I looked up that 24mm and it's basically a cheap lens the size of my body cap which is really tempting. Unfortunately I would be much more likely to drop some money on a good point and shoot than a prime right now, I don't do well with primes and I would like a decent camera that I can fit in a pocket. Still not sure about selling the sigma or the fish since the fish is beat up so it's basically worthless and the sigma was only $200 new. I might just give the fish to my little brother and keep the sigma for one lens only situations..

Are you saying go for the 70-200 F4 L non IS then?

And yeah, I guess some photojournalism but mostly action sports stuff, looks like tax returns might be going into a 70-200....

Thanks for the advice!


70-200 F4 L without IS forsure. That lens is amazing. I can't stop using mine.

The 24mm f2.8 is for crop sensor, but i am likely going to order one in the coming weeks. From what I have heard it is a fantastic lens for it's size and price.

If you don't want to sell any lenses, that is fine, but carying an 18-200 and a 70-200 is a lot to carry arround just for the 18-70 range...
Feb 9 2015 5:55PM
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Sklar
Posts: 8863 - Karma: 31,577
Well, if you go full frame, you're going to need all new glass (idk about the sigma) the 50mm is the only one that will work on full frame (the 11-16 will work 1t 16mm but vignette at anything wider)

So... I would recommend upgrading your glass to something that will work on full frame, unless you want to shell out for everything at once.

My current setup (I got all of it before I switched from my t2i to my 5d2, except the 100mm):
Sigma 15mm fish ~$450
Canon 17-40 f4 ~$450
Canon 70-200 f4 non is ~$450
Canon 100m f2 ~400

As for the 70-200, i think the f4is is regarded as the sharpest? IDK, i don't think you really need IS unless you're shooting low light stuff at slower shutter speeds. The f4 non is is the smallest and lightest. 2.8 would be dope, but for me it wasn't worth the funds (that I still don't have).
Feb 9 2015 6:05PM
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cydwhit
Posts: 5065 - Karma: 42,823
EDolloStone70-200 F4 L without IS forsure. That lens is amazing. I can't stop using mine.

The 24mm f2.8 is for crop sensor, but i am likely going to order one in the coming weeks. From what I have heard it is a fantastic lens for it's size and price.

If you don't want to sell any lenses, that is fine, but carying an 18-200 and a 70-200 is a lot to carry arround just for the 18-70 range...


Yeah, should have qualified, right now I only cary the 18-200 and the 11-16, the other two get pulled out if I specifically need them, so I would grab the 70-200 and possibly the 24mm and use those with the 11-16 as a daily kit
Feb 9 2015 6:06PM
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HarkStudios
Posts: 243 - Karma: 121
cydwhitYeah, should have qualified, right now I only cary the 18-200 and the 11-16, the other two get pulled out if I specifically need them, so I would grab the 70-200 and possibly the 24mm and use those with the 11-16 as a daily kit


that would be a dream kit.
Wide, Mid range (kinda wide), beautiful Tele...

Do that forsure... not to mention, you would feel like you are carrying 2 lenses and a lens cap with the 24mm, the damn thing is barely 1/4 of a pound..
Feb 9 2015 10:33PM
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PacificRimJob
Posts: 24704 - Karma: 29,683
You could always pick up a 5Dc, sell your 7D and then buy a t3i for video/backup body.

Then, as an affordable stopgap lens, pick up a 70-210 f4. You can get them for all of like 100 bucks, and they're really pretty good. I had one and it was a solid option - especially for being 1/5th of what even the 70-200 f4L would cost you...

Honestly, I'd rather have the smaller files from the 5Dc than the 5D2.

I mean, in the exchange, you'd be spending what... 400-500 bucks? Hell if I still shot Canon I'd probably go back to getting a 5Dc again... Besides the mediocre AF and noise performance, it's a heck of a solid camera.
Feb 15 2015 9:02AM
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cydwhit
Posts: 5065 - Karma: 42,823
DingoSeanYou could always pick up a 5Dc, sell your 7D and then buy a t3i for video/backup body.

Then, as an affordable stopgap lens, pick up a 70-210 f4. You can get them for all of like 100 bucks, and they're really pretty good. I had one and it was a solid option - especially for being 1/5th of what even the 70-200 f4L would cost you...

Honestly, I'd rather have the smaller files from the 5Dc than the 5D2.

I mean, in the exchange, you'd be spending what... 400-500 bucks? Hell if I still shot Canon I'd probably go back to getting a 5Dc again... Besides the mediocre AF and noise performance, it's a heck of a solid camera.




Hmm, really like this idea. Why, other than full frame, would a 5dc be better than my current 7d? Basically two biggest drawbacks of 7d for me are low light and burst speed (and burst speed is not really a big deal, it's just the buffer after that kills me) I don't think the 5dc is better in either of those regards? Thanks!
Feb 15 2015 10:18AM
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cydwhit
Posts: 5065 - Karma: 42,823
Nevermind, did some more reading and it looks like the 5dc kicks the 7d butt on low light and IQ
Feb 15 2015 10:25AM
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HarkStudios
Posts: 243 - Karma: 121
This isnt totally related, but WHAT IS THE 5Dc???? I have never heard of it and cant seem to find anything under "Canon 5Dc" on google!?!?!?
Feb 15 2015 12:36PM
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rudedog41
Posts: 605 - Karma: 135
EDolloStoneThis isnt totally related, but WHAT IS THE 5Dc???? I have never heard of it and cant seem to find anything under "Canon 5Dc" on google!?!?!?


It's the original 5D, before the mark ii and iii. I think the c stands for classic (not sure though).
Feb 15 2015 2:08PM
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HarkStudios
Posts: 243 - Karma: 121
rudedog41It's the original 5D, before the mark ii and iii. I think the c stands for classic (not sure though).


That makes a lot of sense! thanks!
Feb 15 2015 3:19PM
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Sklar
Posts: 8863 - Karma: 31,577
DingoSeanHonestly, I'd rather have the smaller files from the 5Dc than the 5D2.

I mean, in the exchange, you'd be spending what... 400-500 bucks? Hell if I still shot Canon I'd probably go back to getting a 5Dc again... Besides the mediocre AF and noise performance, it's a heck of a solid camera.


Idk about that sean, i know you're mad crazy budget focused, but file size? any decent computer will have no problem with 5d2 files.


And Cy, if you're going full frame (other than the 1dx) get ready to drop way down in the fps
Feb 15 2015 8:41PM
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cydwhit
Posts: 5065 - Karma: 42,823
SklarIdk about that sean, i know you're mad crazy budget focused, but file size? any decent computer will have no problem with 5d2 files.


And Cy, if you're going full frame (other than the 1dx) get ready to drop way down in the fps


Yeah, thanks that's what I figured, I'm thinking I'll grab the 70-200f4l with my tax money and make this setup work for the forseable future, I definitly have not reached a point artistically where my gear is holding me back so I'd rather spend that money on experience than equipment.
Feb 15 2015 8:51PM
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Sklar
Posts: 8863 - Karma: 31,577
For sure, you'll definitely notice the difference in IQ when you step up to full frame, but I'd for sure say get the glass first.
Feb 15 2015 8:53PM
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jeano
Posts: 333 - Karma: 104
sell all your gear and buy a used 5d2 and a 35 1.4. literally all you need
Feb 15 2015 9:01PM
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PacificRimJob
Posts: 24704 - Karma: 29,683
cydwhitHmm, really like this idea. Why, other than full frame, would a 5dc be better than my current 7d? Basically two biggest drawbacks of 7d for me are low light and burst speed (and burst speed is not really a big deal, it's just the buffer after that kills me) I don't think the 5dc is better in either of those regards? Thanks!


Full frame is really about it... The 5Dc has a slow burst rate and mediocre AF... and it's not great in low light either, so if you're really worried about that stuff, then really full frame canons aren't going to help you so much. Nikon has solid offerings, such as the D700, but unless you're going for the 1DX, no full frame Canon has a burstrate that's that impressive, so the 7D or a 1D is best in such a circumstance.

SklarIdk about that sean, i know you're mad crazy budget focused, but file size? any decent computer will have no problem with 5d2 files.


And Cy, if you're going full frame (other than the 1dx) get ready to drop way down in the fps


I went budget focused only because he was debating not spending anything and saving for travel budget. I was simply trying to meet him in the middle with a means of having a full frame, a lens that covers the focal range he wants, and still be able to do video just as well as he is already. If he wasn't already on a budget than this wouldn't have even been a threadworthy post.
Feb 16 2015 3:30AM
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PacificRimJob
Posts: 24704 - Karma: 29,683
cydwhitNevermind, did some more reading and it looks like the 5dc kicks the 7d butt on low light and IQ


I mean, maybe? I never felt like my 5D was great above 400 or perhaps 800 iso.. but people have different opinions on what's acceptable noise or not. IQ? Perhaps... but only because the image looks different due to the 35mm sensor. the 7D sensor is still totally acceptable.
Feb 16 2015 3:32AM
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cydwhit
Posts: 5065 - Karma: 42,823
DingoSeanI mean, maybe? I never felt like my 5D was great above 400 or perhaps 800 iso.. but people have different opinions on what's acceptable noise or not. IQ? Perhaps... but only because the image looks different due to the 35mm sensor. the 7D sensor is still totally acceptable.


Awesome, thanks for all the advice!
Feb 16 2015 9:52AM
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zbphoto
Posts: 7789 - Karma: 12,037
DingoSeanI mean, maybe? I never felt like my 5D was great above 400 or perhaps 800 iso.. but people have different opinions on what's acceptable noise or not. IQ? Perhaps... but only because the image looks different due to the 35mm sensor. the 7D sensor is still totally acceptable.


OG 5d is perfectly fine up to 1600. The AF is also fine. A 5d2 is like $900 these days, as much as I love my classic I I don't really see the point in getting one anymore.
Feb 17 2015 1:28PM
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zbphoto
Posts: 7789 - Karma: 12,037
Also, small files are a good thing? If you ever want to make a print larger than 11x14, 12 megapixels is seriously limiting...
Feb 17 2015 1:30PM
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cydwhit
Posts: 5065 - Karma: 42,823
zbphotoOG 5d is perfectly fine up to 1600. The AF is also fine. A 5d2 is like $900 these days, as much as I love my classic I I don't really see the point in getting one anymore.


Yeah, I think I'll grab glass now and then hopefully some time next year snag a 5dII and keep the 7d as a backup body, seems like the best of both worlds to me
Feb 17 2015 4:10PM
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zbphoto
Posts: 7789 - Karma: 12,037
cydwhitYeah, I think I'll grab glass now and then hopefully some time next year snag a 5dII and keep the 7d as a backup body, seems like the best of both worlds to me


Man just keep your 7d, its a fine camera for sports. You won't see a damn difference compared to full frame for web if you use good glass.
Feb 17 2015 7:21PM
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PacificRimJob
Posts: 24704 - Karma: 29,683
zbphotoOG 5d is perfectly fine up to 1600. The AF is also fine. A 5d2 is like $900 these days, as much as I love my classic I I don't really see the point in getting one anymore.


I'm a bit of a stickler for ISO. Like I said, people have different opinions on what acceptable noise is. I've heard people who routinely use their 5Dc's or other old digitals at 3200 and just noise correct in post all day and are totally fine with it.

zbphotoAlso, small files are a good thing? If you ever want to make a print larger than 11x14, 12 megapixels is seriously limiting...


For web? hell yeah, the 5Dc is perfectly adequate. I rarely make prints from my digital photos. I kinda reserve film for that much. Even so, I mean... I blew up an 18x27 from a 20D file and it looks freakin great... the 5Dc is even better. Even a 6 megapixel camera can blow up a pretty decent photo as long as it's a clean raw without much noise or banding.

zbphotoMan just keep your 7d, its a fine camera for sports. You won't see a damn difference compared to full frame for web if you use good glass.


Honestly, this right here. The 7D is great. I'd be happy traveling with just that, a 12-24 and a 50 1.8.
Feb 17 2015 8:42PM
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cydwhit
Posts: 5065 - Karma: 42,823
Thanks guys, I really love being told not to gear whore. I still want to grab a backup body at some point so that if something crappy happens I'm not totally screwed. Stoked to spend money on experiences worth shooting, not on gear!
Feb 17 2015 8:45PM
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zbphoto
Posts: 7789 - Karma: 12,037
DingoSeanFor web? hell yeah, the 5Dc is perfectly adequate. I rarely make prints from my digital photos. I kinda reserve film for that much. Even so, I mean... I blew up an 18x27 from a 20D file and it looks freakin great... the 5Dc is even better. Even a 6 megapixel camera can blow up a pretty decent photo as long as it's a clean raw without much noise or banding.


I mean yeah you can upscale but just because you can doesn't mean you should. I've been shooting a lot of medium format for larger than 13x19in prints these days. Holding out till I can afford a D800.
Feb 17 2015 9:00PM
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PacificRimJob
Posts: 24704 - Karma: 29,683
zbphotoI mean yeah you can upscale but just because you can doesn't mean you should. I've been shooting a lot of medium format for larger than 13x19in prints these days. Holding out till I can afford a D800.


...I mean photographers have had 35mm and crop sensor shots in galleries and hell, even on the sides of buildings and on billboards. It hasn't been a long time since digital cameras barely surpassed what the 5Dc can do anyway... I understand the appeal for the modern high res sensors (hell, I've got one - yes I consider 24 megapixels high res), but I'm just assuming that cy probably isn't exactly worried about it to that kind of level.
Feb 17 2015 10:18PM
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Bmo.
Posts: 4907 - Karma: 2,667
jeanosell all your gear and buy a used 5d2 and a 35 1.4. literally all you need


exactly what I did, and then saved for a 70-200mm 2.8. its perfect for me. saving for digital leica tho
Feb 18 2015 1:09PM
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cydwhit
Posts: 5065 - Karma: 42,823
Bmo.exactly what I did, and then saved for a 70-200mm 2.8. its perfect for me. saving for digital leica tho


Yeah, sorry, just really not my style at all
Feb 18 2015 1:16PM
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zbphoto
Posts: 7789 - Karma: 12,037
Bmo.exactly what I did, and then saved for a 70-200mm 2.8. its perfect for me. saving for digital leica tho


35mm and a 70-200mm is the best combo!
Feb 18 2015 1:33PM
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