NS I need your help, freestyle & its effect on ski lessons.

Well for one things like the Olympics, some of Gopros' ad campaigns etc Bring park skiing to a wider audience of kids who get excited about skiing and realize that skiing doesnt just have to be the cheesy sport your parents drag you to on a family ski trip every year. So it makes it cool for kids to learn to ski and gives them something to strive for. Thats a start?

Thanks, good idea.

I'm also thinking about the use of the main skiing joints: ankles, hips, knees and how they are utilised in effective popping / absorbing the impacts of the landings /// And the different planes of balance that are used when sliding boxes and rails.. All which will improve general skiing on and off the pistes.

If anyone else has any ideas I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks

There is one topic, and only one topic you need to cover.

Park skiing makes an east coast mountain fun.

I grew up taking ski lessons my whole life. They fucking sucked ass. Super god damn boring to stand around doing drills all day. Skiing was lame as shit... at best you could hope to ski fast and hit a side booter while avoiding ski patrol.... other than that it was nothing but gates and skin suits waiting for you.

Terrain park skiing opened up an easy venue for young people to enjoy skiing deeply. I mean sure it creates park rats, but the single most important thing when teaching a kid to ski is that they absolutely love it. If you love skiing, you can always learn the skill - but if you hate it you'll never get out there.

I coached a very young freestyle program for a number of years (kids age 6-12) and I helped incorporate Park skiing into the official CFSA and CSIA training programs (wrote the manual, trained the entire first group of instructors). Trust me - when a kid can jump around, slide on some boxes and overall get a fun experience they are way easier to teach in the end.

Loads of people/instructors say that you will not learn any basics skiing the park, but its horseshit. The amount that you learn blasting in and out of it, and the amount more time you get on your skis becuase you're so obsessed with skiing dramatically outweighs the loss of 'drill time' - which is the most fucking boring god damn way in the universe to learn to ski.

/rant

Thanks Mr Bishop, I'll be sure to emphasise how much it gets kids stoked and keeping them skiing regularly.

Coming from 2 seasons in vancouver and whistler, I'm very much about ripping around with no poles boosting off every feature with my mates and having the most fun on the whole mountain

I've a tough job on my hands because being in Verbier, Switzerland, the park is the LEAST of anyones worries here. It's all about big money clients, free ride, touring, spending $5,000 on lunch and luxury chalet trips. However that obviously exposes an opportunity for someone to grasp some freestyle business and give a big PUSH in the park scene... when the people here eventually realise the park is not their enemy.

McMilliamThanks Mr Bishop, I'll be sure to emphasise how much it gets kids stoked and keeping them skiing regularly.

Coming from 2 seasons in vancouver and whistler, I'm very much about ripping around with no poles boosting off every feature with my mates and having the most fun on the whole mountain

I've a tough job on my hands because being in Verbier, Switzerland, the park is the LEAST of anyones worries here. It's all about big money clients, free ride, touring, spending $5,000 on lunch and luxury chalet trips. However that obviously exposes an opportunity for someone to grasp some freestyle business and give a big PUSH in the park scene... when the people here eventually realise the park is not their enemy.

Dude those people still need their kids to enjoy skiing, or they'll never be able to spend all that money.

McMilliamThanks Mr Bishop, I'll be sure to emphasise how much it gets kids stoked and keeping them skiing regularly.

Coming from 2 seasons in vancouver and whistler, I'm very much about ripping around with no poles boosting off every feature with my mates and having the most fun on the whole mountain

I've a tough job on my hands because being in Verbier, Switzerland, the park is the LEAST of anyones worries here. It's all about big money clients, free ride, touring, spending $5,000 on lunch and luxury chalet trips. However that obviously exposes an opportunity for someone to grasp some freestyle business and give a big PUSH in the park scene... when the people here eventually realise the park is not their enemy.

the terrain park isnt the enemy, its the lack of real "ski lessons" within a park or at real park riding level. ive noticed more and more pizza turns and switch pizzas before crazy rail combos and jump takeoffs, even in edits

Bishop hit the nail on the nail on the head. Keep it fun and show them how to love skiing deeply. In your business Doug is also right, the business of keeping parents happy by keeping kids happy is one of the most important things a resort can do. Being a youth camp our focus is reversed where we need to keep the parents happy to keep the kids shredding so we work with our local tourism and lodging to help parents find things to do if they are staying in the area for the week.

Expanding on that, Disney World has had it figured out all along. Make families happy. Kids happy, parents happy, your boss is happy.

-Justin

I understand that just skiing park doesn't help your ability in skiing all mountain. I never had lessons but I fell in love with skiing and learned how to ski. The amount of balance and comfort in your skis that you learn skiing park is intense. It's like skating or playing the guitar, where it all lies in your comfort or confidence in your ability.

I have a friend who is starting to snowboard. I know it's a different sport, but the concept still applies. He sees all these "freestyle" edits of guys doing sick urban and jaw dropping stunts. Seeing guys like Tom Wallisch and Real SkiFi do these amazing things makes a kid want to become them. They way they do that is by taking lessons. Obviously they won't reach that point, but freestyle creates a lust/addiction to the sport and lifestyle.

Freestyle skiing is a great option for kids these days. And having inspiring videos put out to the kids is great because they do idolize them and want to become them. But freestyle skiings has an a large impact on ski lessons, ski lessons teach good form, an athletic stance allowing one to be able to ski the whole mountain in equilibrium with the center of mass ( the Body) over the base of support ( the skis) and in control through proper edging, rotary, and pressure movements. But freestyle skiing has recently implemented things such as style, afterbang, butters, all of which are awesome and add nice and variable cool looks to ones individual skiing. But in turn promote poor skiing form and a tendency for riding in the back seat and add a slightly higher risk of knee injury. Kids are rushing to become like their idols and cranking down the din to hold them in while they butter and ride park , without the knowledge of good form which can prevent injury.

CB_RadioFreestyle skiing is a great option for kids these days. And having inspiring videos put out to the kids is great because they do idolize them and want to become them. But freestyle skiings has an a large impact on ski lessons, ski lessons teach good form, an athletic stance allowing one to be able to ski the whole mountain in equilibrium with the center of mass ( the Body) over the base of support ( the skis) and in control through proper edging, rotary, and pressure movements. But freestyle skiing has recently implemented things such as style, afterbang, butters, all of which are awesome and add nice and variable cool looks to ones individual skiing. But in turn promote poor skiing form and a tendency for riding in the back seat and add a slightly higher risk of knee injury. Kids are rushing to become like their idols and cranking down the din to hold them in while they butter and ride park , without the knowledge of good form which can prevent injury.

this is too true.
kids can 2 pretz 2, sit back seat (butter), or even learn dubs on tramps but cant actually carve and shred the mountain... its the same difficulties of teaching kids to read when they can just watch cartoons...
i didnt appreciate big mountain skiing for along time, its acquired with age, wisdom, and respect...once you earn a turn, really.

Interesting thread.

So, I suppose I'd start with exploring questions as it pertains to ski lessons. A few that come to mind:

Do freestyle programs persuade riders from traditional lessons?

Is the perception that a skier can start with freestyle lessons? Many resorts offer freestyle lessons from age 3 up, which is slightly mind boggling.

Are skiers introduced to the sport because of the freestyle "cool factor", which you guys have already touched base on and I believe it's totally relevant. Skiing and ski racing was nearly dead in the US for years until freestyle gave it a resuscitation, imho. Would there be as many lessons being given for recreational skiers if freestyle didn't give it a shot in the arm? Likely not.

Something to consider is that PSIA has embraced the certification path for the Freestyle Specialist and thus offers up a group of qualified instructors, which is why so many resorts cannot ignore the freestyle movement and the need to offer up a learning curriculum.

As for the physics, which you mentioned early in your post I'd believe the forces on a freestyle skier are very different than those on a recreational skier. But, there are certainly basic parallels to be drawn. That's worthy of something much greater than a blog entry, but seriously interesting to see explored. It may be the most interesting thing (imho) in the list so far.

You got the wheels turning...

CB_RadioKids are rushing to become like their idols and cranking down the din to hold them in while they butter and ride park , without the knowledge of good form which can prevent injury.

Right, but the problem here is that if you make it ultra strict, then none of these kids are going to ski at all... so they'll be perfectly safe from injury because they're bored to death. Maybe they'll start snowboarding where nobody is going to stop you from shredding the park because its part of it.

Trust me - I have coached kids from a very young age. You don't need to force strict lessons and hold them back from the fun stuff to teach good skiing skills. The idea that the park is destroying skiing is a myth - held up by elitist old guys that don't want ski racing to go away.

If someone loves the sport, and they get out there every day... you can teach them form in between runs. Even if they dont' get taught, they learn as they are on their skis more. If someone skis 5 days per week with no training, they will end up better than someone who does 2 but only does formal lessons.

It will rarely even matter because the guy who does 2 days in formal lessons is either going to quit or start snowboarding.

Stop being such adults. Trust me, kids who are irresponsible know whats up way more than adults.

You can't talk about freeskiing without talking about snowboarders

Mr.BishopRight, but the problem here is that if you make it ultra strict, then none of these kids are going to ski at all... so they'll be perfectly safe from injury because they're bored to death. Maybe they'll start snowboarding where nobody is going to stop you from shredding the park because its part of it.

Trust me - I have coached kids from a very young age. You don't need to force strict lessons and hold them back from the fun stuff to teach good skiing skills. The idea that the park is destroying skiing is a myth - held up by elitist old guys that don't want ski racing to go away.

If someone loves the sport, and they get out there every day... you can teach them form in between runs. Even if they dont' get taught, they learn as they are on their skis more. If someone skis 5 days per week with no training, they will end up better than someone who does 2 but only does formal lessons.

It will rarely even matter because the guy who does 2 days in formal lessons is either going to quit or start snowboarding.

Stop being such adults. Trust me, kids who are irresponsible know whats up way more than adults.

Truth! the snowboard broke the mold of conformity. i skied then switched to snowboarding in the early dayz, when the twin tip came out, the switch and mute grabs finally killed twister twister spreads!
on the contrary, "if kids dont learn how to walk properly, they will never be champion runners..." ive worked with kids that went on to win the olympics, you have to open their eyes to the bigger picture as a coach, a TRUE professional skier can ski anything, all day, everyday, in any condition, and that includes gates, Switch ;)

Exactly, I was born and raised in the UK and I didn't start skiing till I was 14. However I'd been watching the extreme sport channel for years and was WOWed wayyyyyyyyy more by freeskiing at Xgames / other documentaries than any ski racing / ski sunday programme.

So when I first went skiing on a family holiday to Austria, all I already wanted to do was do a backflip and slide rails.. Luckily my parents are super chill and let me do whatever I wanted so by my next holiday we did build a small powder kicker and had the most fun ever!

Unfortunately 90% of the kids I teach here don't have that option with their parents - who are the ones paying the money.. So its either carved intermediate parallel in their lessons or trying to jump off a sidehit behind mum and dad when they're """freeskiing""".

But we're trying to introduce park/freestyle as much as we can in kids here to eventually break the mould and see as many kids having as much fun as they can.... so thanks for all the input

Mr.BishopRight, but the problem here is that if you make it ultra strict, then none of these kids are going to ski at all... so they'll be perfectly safe from injury because they're bored to death. Maybe they'll start snowboarding where nobody is going to stop you from shredding the park because its part of it.

Trust me - I have coached kids from a very young age. You don't need to force strict lessons and hold them back from the fun stuff to teach good skiing skills. The idea that the park is destroying skiing is a myth - held up by elitist old guys that don't want ski racing to go away.

If someone loves the sport, and they get out there every day... you can teach them form in between runs. Even if they dont' get taught, they learn as they are on their skis more. If someone skis 5 days per week with no training, they will end up better than someone who does 2 but only does formal lessons.

It will rarely even matter because the guy who does 2 days in formal lessons is either going to quit or start snowboarding.

Stop being such adults. Trust me, kids who are irresponsible know whats up way more than adults.

Who said anything about making anything strict we all ski to get away from structure. I teach kids to ski and i have also found letting them ski and just getting vertical under their feet is the best thing for their progression, but i also teach them a good athletic stance and how to maintain it.

If you are in a good balanced stance you can preform anything from rails to big mountain , to a tight turn in chutes and no fall zones. You cant make these maneuvers look clean or smooth being out of balance resting with your calfs on the back of your boots.

These moves would look forced and unnatural, and forcing turns, pretzl, what have you cause more muscle fatigue and in turn can lead to injury. Just teaching a good balanced stance and how to maintain it allows less muscle fatigue easier cleaner movements as well lets you ski longer, harder and overall have more fun because you aren't fighting what is natural.