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March, 2024

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If you could fully deign your own ski

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buildit_rideit
Posts: 11 - Karma: 94
Hey guys
so I'm trying to build a niche ski manufacturing company called "Pride Skis" (like a lion pride... coz lion prides are a solid unit, and fierce, etc.) ,building hand crafted skis. I'm losing lots of the plastic typically found in a mass production skis, so no plastic top-sheets or sidewalls, and this creates a much lighter ski (my first prototype was only 1500 grams a skis), and gives it a more unique, natural, and satisfying ride.But this is only one feature of the skis, and I am currently in the stages of prototyping and developing ideas, before i actually get things rolling. Obviously i have lots of ideas bouncing around, but one brain can only stretch so far...

so this is where i want your guys help:
Tell me the features/characteristics that you would want if you could design a ski however you want. PLEASE let your imagination run, don't focus just on things in the current market that you love, but if you have any ideas that you think would be epic, then just let it out.
Oct 28 2014 10:00PM
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50Kal
Posts: 2826 - Karma: 5,367
Durable. No one wants a ski that can't hold at least one full season of serious abuse. Make like 2-3 prototypes and beat them. Find out what works,what doesn't.
Also what are you making your skis out of? If your not using plastics you must be making out wood? Just wondering.
Oct 28 2014 10:17PM
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buildit_rideit
Posts: 11 - Karma: 94
50KalDurable. No one wants a ski that can't hold at least one full season of serious abuse. Make like 2-3 prototypes and beat them. Find out what works,what doesn't.
Also what are you making your skis out of? If your not using plastics you must be making out wood? Just wondering.


yeah, full wood core. but still got plastic base material. And the top sheet just doesn't really exist, it is just the top layer of fibregglass, with a real thin layer of resin for protection (and a better look). i Have already skied on my first prototype pair pretty rough for probably 20 days. they seem to be holding up pretty well, and pretty happy with how they flex and feel also.
Oct 28 2014 11:40PM
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youngdtay
Posts: 3122 - Karma: -112
I'd want a mid 88-93 waist park ski with early rise in the tip and tail. Medium to soft flex would be preferable.
Oct 29 2014 12:15AM
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Caucasian_Asian
Posts: 2447 - Karma: 1,665
When you say "Pride Skis", I think that you are a company marketing yourself towards proud individuals of the gay community. Not lions.
Oct 29 2014 12:21AM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
I didn't want to be the first to say it, but yeah.
Oct 29 2014 12:22AM
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buildit_rideit
Posts: 11 - Karma: 94
yeah. atually thats kind of a good point. obviously still developing things so do you reckon it would be woth changing that up?
not that i have anythong against the gay community, but ypu know...
and any suggestipns if i were to go ahead and rethink it?
Oct 29 2014 12:45AM
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jadavis
Posts: 142 - Karma: 136
You might want to rethink your use of plastic for the sake of durability. Plastic top sheets and side walls protect the ski from moisture, especially when it gets dinged by edges, poles, and everything else. I don't think I've ever had a pair of skis without some good dings in the side walls and top sheets. Sure epoxy is durable, but not that durable unless it's thick. In which case you might as well just use plastic because that's what epoxy is in the end. Adding at least a thin side wall and top sheet would benefit you greatly in terms of durability and honestly it wouldn't weigh a whole lot more (the Magnum Opus comes in at 1900 g and that ski is fat). If the core gets moist it slowly rots which is very very bad. I had a pair of Bent Chetlers get buried in a slide and 6 months later all they needed was the base to be glued back on. That's the kind of durability plastics get you if your manufacturing processes are good. I'm also willing to bet a very significant sum of money that the majority of the mass of a typical ski is in the core, base, and edges, not side walls, top sheets, and tip/tail protection.

I also think you are limiting yourself by only doing wood cores. There are lots of other materials out there with interesting properties that can really benefit a ski. Metal and carbon can be very useful. For example if you want to add pop to your ski some carbon strands on top of the core from tip to tail will really help due to its high young's modulus and low density. If you aren't familiar with composite beam bending already, you might want to look it up and do some reading.

What does your ski press look like? If you built your own, nailing down a solid press design is more important than ski R&D since you don't can't compare prototypes if your press has no little repeatability.
Oct 29 2014 1:53AM
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buildit_rideit
Posts: 11 - Karma: 94
Yeah thanks for the advise. Durability of the sidewall is certainly an issue ive done alot of thinking about. they are weather tight and safe from rot, because i treat them, however chipping could be a potential problem. then again, all the chipping i have experience on my first prototype has been insignificant, and only cosmetic, rather than structural damage. not having a top-sheet doesn't actually reduce the durability, infact with the resin i am using, i believe it makes the skis more durable, and certainly more scratch resistant than most other skis i have had.

As far as weight goes, i have actually done some maths and i save up to 100 grams alone by just removing the plastic top sheet. And sidewalls are another story. Plastic is twice as heavy as wood, and in my opinion it is unnecessary. i can achieve equal results and lighter weight by using a nice durable wood for the sidewall.

Also, like you mentioned, I do have carbon fibre strips in my skis, and i definitely agree they add a nice pop.
Oct 29 2014 2:15AM
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jadavis
Posts: 142 - Karma: 136
Resin and plastic have similar properties. What will determine the durability of your top sheet is thickness and hardness. You can get resins that are as hard as a hard plastic, so I suppose the real question is how thick of a layer of plastic or resin do you need on top. I'd suggest taking your pole and planting it fairly hard on top of your ski to see what the effect is. You'd be surprised what happens when you crash hard. I have a hole in a top sheet from my pole hitting it while falling. Another suggestion for durability that I just remembered would be making the resin/top sheet thicker at the edge of the ski to make it resist wear from rubbing on the opposite skis edges. That way you don't wear through it just by riding the chair a bunch.

Personally I wouldn't buy a ski with wood side walls because they will quite literally get whittled down over time. 20 days isn't very many days, so while the chips might seem insignificant now, they will add up. Plastics can be much harder than wood and will prevent this. Wood is also technically porous, which makes it susceptible damage due to freeze thaw cycles even if it's treated. I suspect that you will be able to keep the wood side walls with narrow skis but end up with plastic on wider ones. Wide skis bump into each other all the time and wear away at their own sidewalls. There will always be that time that one of your pow skis lands slightly on top of another and adds a good gouge to the side wall near the tow or heel of your binding. You could use the same resin and pour it in a mold around the core to get a thin but protective layer that helps with chipping.

Balancing weight and durability is always tricky, but you seem to have a pretty good approach to it
Oct 29 2014 3:03AM
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buildit_rideit
Posts: 11 - Karma: 94
yeah thanks. the epoxy im using on the tops is very hard but quite thin.
i wish i had a use for making proper fat skis! im in new zealand and our pow days arent even comparible to yours. so the wide ski sidewall issue isnt as big an issue. but i guess ill see. its all abit of trial and error i guess. and i personally lile the aesthetic of wood sidewalls and would choose wood over plastic anyday ofcourse depending on the durability that is achieved.
good things take time, and i still have a way to go, but its all good fun, and hopefully i get somewhere with it.
Oct 29 2014 3:51AM
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Willows
Posts: 442 - Karma: 2,624
buildit_rideityeah thanks. the epoxy im using on the tops is very hard but quite thin.
i wish i had a use for making proper fat skis! im in new zealand and our pow days arent even comparible to yours. so the wide ski sidewall issue isnt as big an issue. but i guess ill see. its all abit of trial and error i guess. and i personally lile the aesthetic of wood sidewalls and would choose wood over plastic anyday ofcourse depending on the durability that is achieved.
good things take time, and i still have a way to go, but its all good fun, and hopefully i get somewhere with it.


my experience as an entrepreneur tells me that you should never be afraid to "kill your baby". Don't be afraid to realize that your plan needs changing.

My tips would be:

1) Change the name
2) Plastic is durable... use it!
3) Think beyond NZ
4) Don't be afraid to take the ideas from other companies and then rethink them (thats basically entrepreneurship for you right there). That goes for ski tech, but also marketing(Jskis).

Sounds like you got it in you to do this!
Oct 29 2014 4:18AM
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buildit_rideit
Posts: 11 - Karma: 94
thanks heaps for the advise. change is deffinitly a good thing, as you said, and i allready have a couple of changes lined up for the next prorotype (as youd expect). and ofcourse more to come, hopefully until something super fesh develops.
you seem to have some pretty solid experience and great to talk with. what sort of area do you work in or have worked in? jist out of interest.
Oct 29 2014 4:30AM
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Willows
Posts: 442 - Karma: 2,624
I have my own company called Sespo sespo.dk

Its basically a site for people that want to create a party. The site works as the link between musicians, caters and banquet facilities. I don't have any real marketing education(I'm 18), but my company has won the title as one of the most promising youth companies in Denmark!
Oct 29 2014 4:50AM
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Willows
Posts: 442 - Karma: 2,624
I have my own company called Sespo.

Its basically a link between costumers wanting to hold a party and the caters, musicians, banquet facilities etc.

I have no marketing education(I'm 18 and still in the danish highschool system), but my company has won an award for being one of Denmark's most promising companies founded by young people.

the site is called Sespo.dk
Oct 29 2014 5:06AM
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Willows
Posts: 442 - Karma: 2,624
sorry for double post didn't think the first one was posted properly..
Oct 29 2014 5:08AM
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buildit_rideit
Posts: 11 - Karma: 94
algood bro.
that sounds awesome. i also am still in the new zealand school system (15) and hopefully only have one more year and then i can move to a ski town and try get something rolling. im training as ski technician which should help a bit, but i need to find some descent workshop space aswell to make things a bit easier (instead of my parents garage).
i appreciate everything youve said. some good food for thought!
Oct 29 2014 5:20AM
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NMMedia
Posts: 982 - Karma: 1,696
I feel like the idea of creating a super light ski with no plastic is cool, but it has flaws. If there are any dings in what you cover it with youre going to get water into the base which will not only rot the wood and weaken the skis, but it will make the skis unbearably heavy. Ex Line afterbangs, those bad boys just love being water logged and weighing 500 pounds
Oct 29 2014 10:33AM
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Pmoore
Posts: 1802 - Karma: 1,246
As some one working closely with a ski company my advice would be make skis for you and your friends for like 6 to 8 more years before you try and sell them. You don't want to come into the Market with an unfinished or crappy product because that is what everyone will remember you for.

In terms of your actual idea, I will never ride a ski without plastic sidewalls. So no way would I ride a ski without a plastic topsheet. They wouldn't even last me a month
Oct 29 2014 11:06AM
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prestontholtt
Posts: 48 - Karma: 67
make a kids or smaller mens size ski. 150-155cm
Oct 29 2014 6:31PM
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MartianMan
Posts: 1101 - Karma: 2,098
I would want a ski that would be a versatile ski for big mountain conditions, but specifically deeper snow. One of those ski that give you full control over skiing lines and pillows on and off the resort, but can still crush through variable and crud on the way back to the lift. Should have total confidence and focus at bombing lines at high speeds, but doesn't have to be interchanged for switch landings or the occasional BC booter sesh.

For me that would be:

121mm waist
25m sidecut
Fairly large rocker in the tip - minimal camber underfoot (1-2mm) - Just slightly smaller rocker in the tail
Medium stiff flex, tad stiffer in the tail than in the tip
A bit of very gradual taper in the tips and tails, barely noticeable, just not traditional sidecut
186cm tall, with some dark colored and demonic graphic
Full black 1.8mm sintered base, 3/4 wrap 2.5mmx2.5mm rockwell 48 edges

This is pretty similar to the Folsom Rapture, a ski that I have wanted to try since found out it existed, with a few tweaks, although I came up with all of it on my own over the past 4-5 years.
Oct 29 2014 6:59PM
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ghosthop
Posts: 631 - Karma: 1,027
Flat camber, long low rocker, longish sidecut, fairly stout flex, or at least nice and progressive, and damp
Oct 29 2014 9:01PM
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Caucasian_Asian
Posts: 2447 - Karma: 1,665
ghosthopFlat camber, long low rocker, longish sidecut, fairly stout flex, or at least nice and progressive, and damp


115-120mm underfoot, 190cm long, plain black bases...


Or a bigger version of the rockered S6/Sickle, with dimensions stretched to a 120mm waist and 191cm.
Oct 29 2014 9:25PM
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cyberginger
Posts: 574 - Karma: 7,082
Multicoloured bases. You know, pride.

Oct 29 2014 10:54PM
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BungHole.
Posts: 698 - Karma: 1,422
Do you ride Ruapehu? Would love to see your prototypes.
Oct 29 2014 11:20PM
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junyawatanabe
Posts: 591 - Karma: 667
The perfect skis for me is:
- versatile
-95 to 110 waist
-light
-medium flex
-lots of rocker with small camber
-durable
-good in park and pow
-lots of sizes from 165 to 185
Oct 29 2014 11:42PM
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GrumpisPringle
Posts: 630 - Karma: 728
use a high quality p-tex base. In my experience extruded becomes really slow really fast.
Use thick edges.

Rocker camber rocker.

Something really close to symmetrical if not symmertrical would be what I would want

Equal tip/tail height.

I'd like to see pictures of this would sidewall before just shooting down the idea.

Maybe rubber or hollow tip and tail? A hollowish tip and tail would make the swing weight really light.
Oct 29 2014 11:53PM
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Park.
Posts: 2480 - Karma: 4,582
GrumpisPringleuse a high quality p-tex base. In my experience extruded becomes really slow really fast.
Use thick edges.

Rocker camber rocker.

Something really close to symmetrical if not symmertrical would be what I would want

Equal tip/tail height.

I'd like to see pictures of this would sidewall before just shooting down the idea.

Maybe rubber or hollow tip and tail? A hollowish tip and tail would make the swing weight really light.


You have to be careful with the tip ideas because of patenting issues. And equal tip/tail height isn't very useful. It only creates unnecessary drag if you want to ski some pow and in the spring the slush will catch on it too. Not a good idea IMO
Oct 30 2014 12:57AM
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buildit_rideit
Posts: 11 - Karma: 94
http://media.newschoolers.com/uploads/images/17/00/73/48/15/734815-thumb.jpg

these are the sidewalls
Oct 30 2014 1:21AM
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buildit_rideit
Posts: 11 - Karma: 94

woops. here.
Oct 30 2014 1:29AM
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.FRY.
Posts: 5620 - Karma: 22,852
Rocket boosters are a must
Oct 30 2014 1:32AM
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buildit_rideit
Posts: 11 - Karma: 94
i took your guys advice and changed the name, still unsure, it might need another change.
anyways, been playing round with some graphics for the next prototypes.
please critique for me.
Oct 30 2014 1:36AM
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HuckNorris44
Posts: 1025 - Karma: 2,392
Cork is a good alternative to a plastic sidewall. I know other companies have experimented with it and have had somewhat successful results. Also, no die cuts in the base, not sure if you do that but i hate that shit.
Oct 30 2014 2:40AM
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buildit_rideit
Posts: 11 - Karma: 94
i couldnt agree more, good old black bases are deffinately the way to go.
Oct 30 2014 2:56AM
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GrumpisPringle
Posts: 630 - Karma: 728
Those sidewalls look sick. I'd like to see them after 50 days of beating the shit out of them though. Who knows they might hold up better the way you are doing it than a abs sidewall.

Keep it up I'd like to see what you can make.

I think a darker shade of stain on a plain top sheet would look way sick rather than painting it or what ever.

Plain Black bases with an illuminati symbol on tail/tip would something I would buy in a heartbeat
Oct 30 2014 9:40AM
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elm.
Posts: 1474 - Karma: 13,338
make a ski wider at the base than tip or tail for pow. Praxis did this and I've always wondered how they ski. It would be a fun experiment.
Oct 30 2014 2:13PM
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BrownBomber
Posts: 675 - Karma: 446
If your going to make a park ski, the main thing that people are going to look for is durability. With my limited experience in ski manufacturing, I would say that the easiest way to ensure your ski's last is to invest in high quality edge material, base material, and to put rivots in the tip and tail. Seems pretty straight forward, but there are so many damn park ski's that dont have rivots in them and they always end up de-laming.

If you establish yourself as a company that makes park skiis that last longer than a single season, you'll be successful for a while.
Oct 30 2014 2:24PM
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suup
Posts: 1485 - Karma: 4,366
Sorry to say but the name still hurts.
Oct 30 2014 10:38PM
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steezburgereddie
Posts: 1059 - Karma: 1,944
buildit_rideiti took your guys advice and changed the name, still unsure, it might need another change.
anyways, been playing round with some graphics for the next prototypes.
please critique for me.


They look kind of like this years faty-pus topsheets.
Oct 31 2014 1:20AM
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GrumpisPringle
Posts: 630 - Karma: 728
BrownBomberIf your going to make a park ski, the main thing that people are going to look for is durability. With my limited experience in ski manufacturing, I would say that the easiest way to ensure your ski's last is to invest in high quality edge material, base material, and to put rivots in the tip and tail. Seems pretty straight forward, but there are so many damn park ski's that dont have rivots in them and they always end up de-laming.

If you establish yourself as a company that makes park skiis that last longer than a single season, you'll be successful for a while.


Yea rivets are good. maybe hollow ones for the extra steeze?

Rubber in the tip helps against delam too

How wide are they?

I think a 120/90/120 might be fun.

Also something to try is full carbon under foot with stringers to tip and tail.
Oct 31 2014 1:25AM
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buildit_rideit
Posts: 11 - Karma: 94
i might actually try full carbon underfoot. it would be great for edge stability and binding retension. my first skis are 119-87-113.
Oct 31 2014 4:51AM
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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,409
https://www.newschoolers.com/news/read/A-Ski-Durability

Wood sidewalls are okay, but the durability is a major issue as seen above. Since then I've also tried a few other wood species with similar results. This season I'm switching to UHMW sidewalls so I no longer have those issues, they're definitely worth it.
Oct 31 2014 8:45AM
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