Newcomers to Freeskiing

TamasMake a Freestyle Skiing's History book.

Skiing needs something like Jeff Grosso´s loveletters to skateboarding

The referenced post has been removed.

Seriously love that you guys did this, brings back a lot of memories.

tomPietrowskiSlightly off to topic but what do you think has created this new surge in new skiers bishop? Do you think it was the Olympics? Tht is what I figure it was and if so then I'm pretty stoked on that. Before the games so many people here said they thought they would have no impact but I think now it is clear it has been good for our sport. More skiers meen more money to the resorts manufacturers and even you guys through extra viewS. So has peoplea opinion on the Olympica changed now?

The surge started long before skiing even got added to the olympics. Skiing is experiencing what snowboarding went through in the mid to late 90s through he early 2000s. The parks are open to skiers, the technology is there, the contests are there and the sport is growing like crazy.

The olympics is super recent. I mean the olympics has definitely brought increased awareness to the sport, and their are definitely people getting in the parks because of it, but the sport is riding a wave that started when the olympics were barely even a dream for freestyle skiing.

theabortionatorThe surge started long before skiing even got added to the olympics. Skiing is experiencing what snowboarding went through in the mid to late 90s through he early 2000s. The parks are open to skiers, the technology is there, the contests are there and the sport is growing like crazy.

The olympics is super recent. I mean the olympics has definitely brought increased awareness to the sport, and their are definitely people getting in the parks because of it, but the sport is riding a wave that started when the olympics were barely even a dream for freestyle skiing.

Yeah you may be right but I'll be interested to see just how many new members you see here this comin season an how many more riders will be in the park this coming season After seeing slope on TV.

tomPietrowskiYeah you may be right but I'll be interested to see just how many new members you see here this comin season an how many more riders will be in the park this coming season After seeing slope on TV.

For sure. I was just talking about the current ones. Most of the olympics people just started or will be coming out next season and the years after.

Still like big contests within the industry better than the bigger stuff but it's good that skiing got a fuck ton of exposure.

smellsthis is what the newcomers needhttps://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/689488/Gnar

This movie changed my whole perspective of skiing for the greater good.

tomPietrowskiSlightly off to topic but what do you think has created this new surge in new skiers bishop? Do you think it was the Olympics? Tht is what I figure it was and if so then I'm pretty stoked on that. Before the games so many people here said they thought they would have no impact but I think now it is clear it has been good for our sport. More skiers meen more money to the resorts manufacturers and even you guys through extra viewS. So has peoplea opinion on the Olympica changed now?

I think the Olympics definitely had something to do with it. I mean there was just overall so much media out there covering it, that there had to be some sort of an effect.

I think that's where the danger is. There was just this little blip that entered into the 'real' world, which probably turned the heads of a few people. Now we need to make sure that when they roll up they get educated on the right stuff vs. the broskier crap and classic freestyle only-about-winning hell.

Mr.BishopI think the Olympics definitely had something to do with it. I mean there was just overall so much media out there covering it, that there had to be some sort of an effect.

I think that's where the danger is. There was just this little blip that entered into the 'real' world, which probably turned the heads of a few people. Now we need to make sure that when they roll up they get educated on the right stuff vs. the broskier crap and classic freestyle only-about-winning hell.

My main concern is all these kids coming in will not want to do anything but park. So they won't bother skiing the mnt first to become good skiers. It I worry wI'll make the assumption that park skiers can't actually ski even more correct. I hope there is the infrastructure for these new skiers to develop skills in an out of the park. That way hopefully we could keep these new skiers more long term in the sport Rather then going I the park sucking at it an giving up straight away.

TamasMake a Freestyle Skiing's History book.

Include a bit of history in the upcoming year book? Or even a separate issue all together

Watching Simon do the double superman front in big air back in 09 was the coolest thing. Even though now I see how that trick shouldn't have really won the big air that year it got me to finally put away race skis and get my first set of twins. The "cool" and "wow" factors are always going to keep attracting newcomers and on a broader scale now with the olympics and the sport in general gaining popularity for both good and bad.

That_One_kidWatching Simon do the double superman front in big air back in 09 was the coolest thing. Even though now I see how that trick shouldn't have really won the big air that year it got me to finally put away race skis and get my first set of twins. The "cool" and "wow" factors are always going to keep attracting newcomers and on a broader scale now with the olympics and the sport in general gaining popularity for both good and bad.

This is an interesting point and got me thinking. There is all this talk about style vs tech an comp skiers v filmers. But thinking about it it will be the comp skiers who attract new skiers as this is what they are exposed too. Do you think that will create a new wave of everyone getting into the sport actually wanting to compete rather then just film?

i am one of the new freeskiers but i do know about the early years of freeskiing and the big contributors like mckonkney, cr johnson, candie, and t hall.i do agree with you about the knew kids not knowing anything and just liking a brand if their favorite pro is on it.

I have been apart of this community and sport for about 3-4 yrs. I was first hooked and and amazed at the sport back when I was like ten with my helmet that had those spikes on them and my big ass goggle gap and my styly spyder jacket, I was the classic gaper taking a stroll through the park when I saw a guy throw a dub back on this huge kicker. I was instantly hooked and ill tell you that coming from someone who has only been freestyle skiing for a few years, I know a decent amount of freeskiing history, mainly from seeing someone comment go "Not as good as candide's cork 810 on," or "Still not as bad as chad's gap" and I would look that shit up so I wouldnt seem like a lost cattle grazing through the meadow with no common sense of its home or the past of skiing.

Mr.BishopI think the Olympics definitely had something to do with it. I mean there was just overall so much media out there covering it, that there had to be some sort of an effect.

I think that's where the danger is. There was just this little blip that entered into the 'real' world, which probably turned the heads of a few people. Now we need to make sure that when they roll up they get educated on the right stuff vs. the broskier crap and classic freestyle only-about-winning hell.

Doug, man your passion for this sport is unrivaled. I love it.

That's the inevitable progression of things my friend. It happened to skateboarding and it's starting to happen with skiing and sports like wingsuit BASE jumping. Both things I absolutely love and deem worthy of a potential shortening of life.

At the end of the day, we all know what we felt when we watched ski movie 3 or saw Mik D stomp that switch 10. Then from there on the years of everyone finishing their slope run with switch 10's. We also know what it felt like to struggle over and over to get that first fs switch up. It's going to be hard to relate to something when you only know the present. Honestly, there's no real way to convey to the youth how legendary these moments were...because they were ours. They will always be ours because we experienced the progression in relation to our present. The kids that watch today have a whole new foundation on what progression constitutes. It doesn't really matter if they don't share the same feeling when watching Tanner in an all white suit do some of the smoothest switch tricks that even rival today's. These guys will always have our respect, that's what matters. The ones who truly understand will be able to relate. If they can't, let them have the olympics. There will always be PBR's, public parks, and the backcountry.

i noticed it a lot this summer at camp, a lot of the kids were so fresh it was crazy. I was asking them if they knew who Candide was and they didn't know and after like naming 5 huge names i was like.... k.. can you guys name one pro skier?! haha Nope. it was crazy considering when i was like 14 at momentum i knew who everybody was and it was like going to Hollywood or something and seeing all my favourite pro's.

Also, if there are indeed a lot of newcomers and i assume they are buying stuff, why do all the sponsors seem like they are cutting back so much, finding sponsors these days is like pulling teeth.

VANULARi noticed it a lot this summer at camp, a lot of the kids were so fresh it was crazy. I was asking them if they knew who Candide was and they didn't know and after like naming 5 huge names i was like.... k.. can you guys name one pro skier?! haha Nope. it was crazy considering when i was like 14 at momentum i knew who everybody was and it was like going to Hollywood or something and seeing all my favourite pro's.

Also, if there are indeed a lot of newcomers and i assume they are buying stuff, why do all the sponsors seem like they are cutting back so much, finding sponsors these days is like pulling teeth.

With regards to sponsors I think it will be a few years before we see any impact from the new skiers. The new skiers need to spend some money and show the brand that this younger generation are her to stay in the sport. I could see then the brands taking in a lot of younger riders. It's like you say these younger riders don't know any pros so having the older guys on the teams wont really benefit the brands. instead I see the brands taking on younger up and comers who the other kids look up too.

That_One_kidWatching Simon do the double superman front in big air back in 09 was the coolest thing. Even though now I see how that trick shouldn't have really won the big air that year it got me to finally put away race skis and get my first set of twins. The "cool" and "wow" factors are always going to keep attracting newcomers and on a broader scale now with the olympics and the sport in general gaining popularity for both good and bad.

I'm glad you realized that haha, Pre broken neck PK's doubles were absolutely deliscious. I have been searching for a vid of him from dew tour where he did a double 12 into a sw double twelve but scrubbed a bit, I think he took the title that year? Would love to see the vid if it's out there

Quite a bit farther back on the timeline but I saw this last winter for the first time and made my jaw drop. The newbies need to see this ASAP!!!

http://youtu.be/Ift1ibmj0U4

VANULARi noticed it a lot this summer at camp, a lot of the kids were so fresh it was crazy. I was asking them if they knew who Candide was and they didn't know and after like naming 5 huge names i was like.... k.. can you guys name one pro skier?! haha Nope. it was crazy considering when i was like 14 at momentum i knew who everybody was and it was like going to Hollywood or something and seeing all my favourite pro's.

Also, if there are indeed a lot of newcomers and i assume they are buying stuff, why do all the sponsors seem like they are cutting back so much, finding sponsors these days is like pulling teeth.

That is super crazy to imagine. How did those campers get into it? What made them decide to go to ski camp? I'm always so curious to hear what a total newcomer sees from the outside to want to peer in.

If the shops start telling the manufacturers that there's new blood coming in, they see an uptick in sales and subsequently place a larger order of product... maybe like a year after that it will improve. Its also funny how much hype right now on the product sales side of the industry is directed at the back/sidecountry older weekend warrior. Everyone and their cat is spending tonnes of marketing dollars on that, leaving less of an overall pot for those who do the rest of it.

Larger profit margins on back/side country gear, I'd push it too...

It's like there aren't film crews who go out and dedicate their lives to try to capture the most current and impressive skiing clips.... Annually.... Since forever ago.
Am I really the only one who doesn't feel the necessity to spoon feed what "cool" skiing should be to the younger generations. I've thoroughly enjoyed my time here, wadding through mediocre clips/segments/episodes. I think newcomers will(should) also.

Mr.BishopThat is super crazy to imagine. How did those campers get into it? What made them decide to go to ski camp? I'm always so curious to hear what a total newcomer sees from the outside to want to peer in.

If the shops start telling the manufacturers that there's new blood coming in, they see an uptick in sales and subsequently place a larger order of product... maybe like a year after that it will improve. Its also funny how much hype right now on the product sales side of the industry is directed at the back/sidecountry older weekend warrior. Everyone and their cat is spending tonnes of marketing dollars on that, leaving less of an overall pot for those who do the rest of it.

Are yo surprised that the manufacturers are pushing bc gear Doug? unfortunately as much a park riders love te sport they in general don't spend any money. So many park guys buy second hand and that does not help the brands. In whistler for example there are a ton of park riders but around town park sales are very low. Compare that to as you put it the weekend warriors. They spend a tonn of money as they are usually in a better finicall position to do so. They buy full setups at retail every year or every other. They don't buy second hand gear and they also spend money in resorts such as hotels and meals on the mountain rather ten eating ketchup sandwiches ect. So they overall bring in much more money to the ski industry in general. Until there is a mentality change amoungst park guys which prompts them to spend more money in shops unfortunately you can't expect much to change.

tomPietrowskiAre yo surprised that the manufacturers are pushing bc gear Doug? unfortunately as much a park riders love te sport they in general don't spend any money. So many park guys buy second hand and that does not help the brands. In whistler for example there are a ton of park riders but around town park sales are very low. Compare that to as you put it the weekend warriors. They spend a tonn of money as they are usually in a better finicall position to do so. They buy full setups at retail every year or every other. They don't buy second hand gear and they also spend money in resorts such as hotels and meals on the mountain rather ten eating ketchup sandwiches ect. So they overall bring in much more money to the ski industry in general. Until there is a mentality change amoungst park guys which prompts them to spend more money in shops unfortunately you can't expect much to change.

Exactly, nobody buys used beacons, skins, shovels or probes. I think the age difference is also important, older, BC oriented people have the dough to buy nice new gear, young part rats scrounge by on second hand cheap stuff. When I shop I mostly buy new BC oriented gear like a nice shell, pow skis, etc but I wouldn't think twice about buying used hoodies or less high tech coats. Even park skis, I feel like the technology is not as game changing or as important to me as with a pow setup so I am more likely to buy used or older years models. You have to spend money to protect your life in the BC, nobody gets in an avalanche or gets frostbite in the park. People spend their money accordingly.

jibdajudear mr. bishop,

i am so grateful that i started freeskiing in 2001/2002 because this area of the sport is the only one which keeps me motivated to never stop with the sport and keep doing it as long as my body is strong enough. my first skimovies i watched were happydayz, the scanners, yearbook, high five, session 1242 and so on...
everything back then was completly new.. internet wasnt a big thing where u could watch edits like nowadays. but i loved this time. u had always to wait till fall when the new movies came out, and then when u watched it the first time u were completly blown away what the pros have learned and done in the last winter!! it was absolutly magic. then this revolution began in the 2007, 2008 and so... i mean this revolution of neon colored tall tees, bandanas on the face, afterbanging everything.. no offense! i loved what tom wallisch, jon brogan etc did to the sport technically but i felt a little bit sad i must admit^^ where did the puffyjackets go? why everthing bright and colored like clowns? why is everbody cutting his poles to short sticks?? and most of all: WHY IS EVERBODY FOCUSING SO MUCH ON PARK? and no longer big bc gaps like in teddybearcrisis? (btw: what happened to that genius named kris ostness?? i saw him in few words wearing a surf company tshirt.. is he no longer in the snow business? :/ )

what i think should happen in the future to newschoolers:
have a look at the berrics.com... they are focusing so much on the history lately. and all the young kids get to know the roots of the sport which they love so much. guys they never heard of before beome legends to the kids.
just ask the genius filmakers like iberg, johnny or josh if you colud post old movieparts each month. that would be just awesome.
a respect the past campaign would also be awesome where u interview the pros nowadays which old pro back in the day inspired them to ski..like this in skateboarding:

https://vimeo.com/60839510

so.. that were my two cents.. and now i am going to watch the scanners ;) have a nice weekend and keep praying for massive snowfall this winter ;)

I agree with you so much, Teddybearcrisis was the movie that really started it all for me, plus a danish movie that came out the same year. Bring back the soundtracks and feels to the movies!

This thread. I like it.

This is EXACTLY what Tanner wanted to show in the Vice documentary. Hence why he had all the rage about it.

I didn't know much about the history of freeskiing for my first couple years (I started in 2008) but I was pretty interested in it after a while, and now I am at the point were I can talk about our history like I remember it happening. I think anyone who really wants to be a freeskier is going to be interested in how the sport got started.

Mr.BishopSo I've been noticing a ton lately that there is a whole new wave of people entering the sport. New members popping by that have only been into this for 2-5 years, stories of shops like D-Structure having kids aged 9-13 walking in the front door completely fresh and uneducated about anything Freeskiing... but thinking it looks dope.

What I'm rapidly cluing into is the fact that they have seen a completely different sport than any of us who have been in it from the late '90s until now. Even if you joined the revolution in 2004 - you'd know a drastically different sport than joining the cause in 2009-2013.

Questions like the Relevancy of Tanner Hall, Who the fuck is this Candide guy, is Tom Wallish even that good.... seem like insanity if you've been there for a few years but there's actually logic if you never got the history.

With an ever increasing speed of progression, we are apt to immediately discard the past and only focus on the here and now. New person walking into the sport might only ever view T-Hall as that dude that has been injured their entire time in the sport and having some vague idea of the fact that he used to win X-games back in the day when the tricks weren't as hard.

I almost blame myself for not putting more historical education out into the world. I definitely think all of us need to do our part to point out things from history to check out. Rad old movies, good edits, etc.

What I don't want is for people to come into the sport and view it just like classic freestyle. Like "Oh great, I can join a competitive freestyle team, try to win every day and go to the Olympics." I think to not get into the traps of the past we must make sure that the lifestyle of it all, the fun, the character is something we make sure the new blood realizes is out there.

TL;DR - There's new people coming into the sport and they don't have easy access to the history.

Personally id reccommend everyone watching the few words movie and a few others, theyre great movies and very informative!!

tomPietrowskiAre yo surprised that the manufacturers are pushing bc gear Doug? unfortunately as much a park riders love te sport they in general don't spend any money. So many park guys buy second hand and that does not help the brands. In whistler for example there are a ton of park riders but around town park sales are very low. Compare that to as you put it the weekend warriors. They spend a tonn of money as they are usually in a better finicall position to do so. They buy full setups at retail every year or every other. They don't buy second hand gear and they also spend money in resorts such as hotels and meals on the mountain rather ten eating ketchup sandwiches ect. So they overall bring in much more money to the ski industry in general. Until there is a mentality change amoungst park guys which prompts them to spend more money in shops unfortunately you can't expect much to change.

cydwhitExactly, nobody buys used beacons, skins, shovels or probes. I think the age difference is also important, older, BC oriented people have the dough to buy nice new gear, young part rats scrounge by on second hand cheap stuff. When I shop I mostly buy new BC oriented gear like a nice shell, pow skis, etc but I wouldn't think twice about buying used hoodies or less high tech coats. Even park skis, I feel like the technology is not as game changing or as important to me as with a pow setup so I am more likely to buy used or older years models. You have to spend money to protect your life in the BC, nobody gets in an avalanche or gets frostbite in the park. People spend their money accordingly.

I do agree that there is value in the older BC market, that is absolutely not a doubt in my mind. But don't go too far with it... I mean the REAL money is in the baby boomers. Warren Miller shit. Women who just carve too. The super rich that don't ever set foot in the backcountry.

Problem with those people, who have had a ton of marketing spent on them is they're becoming too old to ski. Its important to have a healthy marketing play across all generations, so you have new customers coming in the bottom vs. ones exiting out the top.

Backcountry is also the least forgiving, least inviting and least predictable part of the sport. Weekend warriors aren't buying up all this BC gear - they would just die out there. Its completely inaccessible to the average person, and only a good market within a few select western regions. Completely useless to your average midwest or eastern skier.

The first thing to go with global warming is the powder too. Talk to a ski company that bet all their marketing / manufacturing on Powder skis with High margin, but they were heavily successful in Tahoe. Last three years will have been a bloodbath for them. Pow skis/gear get better margin, but if there's no pow that gear is all completely useless.

Finally, its not the college age park rat that is the source of revenue - its the aspirational 6-13 year old that sees a clip of someone like Vanular and goes "Holy wow that is rad, Dad I want those funny twin tip ski things for Christmas."

Just like the backcountry hippie who really doesn't buy new shit for years on end influences the weekend warrior, the broke park rat influences the weekend warrior's kids. They also help build a new generation of brand loyal customers, as if you get someone young they stick to your brand as long as you maintain their experience.

Also Tom - I know that you say that park sales are low in whistler and pow sales are high - well if you talk to D-Structure in Quebec City they would say the diametric opposite.

As well, if whistler has a terrible year I imagine all the shops in whistler freak out? If Quebec has a terrible year, D-Structure still sells a ton of park skis to kids turning around mud to hit rails.

I'm not saying that park is the second coming of jesus christ or anything, but don't discount its relevance as a great place to get really loyal skiers into the system.

Mr.BishopI do agree that there is value in the older BC market, that is absolutely not a doubt in my mind. But don't go too far with it... I mean the REAL money is in the baby boomers. Warren Miller shit. Women who just carve too. The super rich that don't ever set foot in the backcountry.

Problem with those people, who have had a ton of marketing spent on them is they're becoming too old to ski. Its important to have a healthy marketing play across all generations, so you have new customers coming in the bottom vs. ones exiting out the top.

Backcountry is also the least forgiving, least inviting and least predictable part of the sport. Weekend warriors aren't buying up all this BC gear - they would just die out there. Its completely inaccessible to the average person, and only a good market within a few select western regions. Completely useless to your average midwest or eastern skier.

The first thing to go with global warming is the powder too. Talk to a ski company that bet all their marketing / manufacturing on Powder skis with High margin, but they were heavily successful in Tahoe. Last three years will have been a bloodbath for them. Pow skis/gear get better margin, but if there's no pow that gear is all completely useless.

Finally, its not the college age park rat that is the source of revenue - its the aspirational 6-13 year old that sees a clip of someone like Vanular and goes "Holy wow that is rad, Dad I want those funny twin tip ski things for Christmas."

Just like the backcountry hippie who really doesn't buy new shit for years on end influences the weekend warrior, the broke park rat influences the weekend warrior's kids. They also help build a new generation of brand loyal customers, as if you get someone young they stick to your brand as long as you maintain their experience.

Also Tom - I know that you say that park sales are low in whistler and pow sales are high - well if you talk to D-Structure in Quebec City they would say the diametric opposite.

As well, if whistler has a terrible year I imagine all the shops in whistler freak out? If Quebec has a terrible year, D-Structure still sells a ton of park skis to kids turning around mud to hit rails.

I'm not saying that park is the second coming of jesus christ or anything, but don't discount its relevance as a great place to get really loyal skiers into the system.

Some interesting points for sure. One thing to remember though is not many of the guys buying bc gear are actually taking it into the bc. Most like the idea spend a ton of money and then ski inbounds 95% of the time. But they are buying new boots, skis and bindings every year still. Combine these sales with the average Jo holiday maker and that is the majority of our sales. It's getting harder and harder to justify stocking park gear as it is always by far the smallest seller.

And your point about deatructure is interesting too. Park kids but stuff online which really does not happen as much with other demographics. Most people like personal service but park kids generally just look for deals. This is the mentality I'm talking about.

And no shops in whis dpnt freak out as even on a bad year like last year we know tourists will come regardless an will spend money. Last year was one of the worst snow yers in a while but all wb shops were up sales wise from the past 4 years. That is te thing tourists come regardless.

fat skis made it so gapers and their gaper kids can fucking ski. thanks for nothing.

Mr.BishopI do agree that there is value in the older BC market, that is absolutely not a doubt in my mind. But don't go too far with it... I mean the REAL money is in the baby boomers. Warren Miller shit. Women who just carve too. The super rich that don't ever set foot in the backcountry.

Problem with those people, who have had a ton of marketing spent on them is they're becoming too old to ski. Its important to have a healthy marketing play across all generations, so you have new customers coming in the bottom vs. ones exiting out the top.

Backcountry is also the least forgiving, least inviting and least predictable part of the sport. Weekend warriors aren't buying up all this BC gear - they would just die out there. Its completely inaccessible to the average person, and only a good market within a few select western regions. Completely useless to your average midwest or eastern skier.

The first thing to go with global warming is the powder too. Talk to a ski company that bet all their marketing / manufacturing on Powder skis with High margin, but they were heavily successful in Tahoe. Last three years will have been a bloodbath for them. Pow skis/gear get better margin, but if there's no pow that gear is all completely useless.

Finally, its not the college age park rat that is the source of revenue - its the aspirational 6-13 year old that sees a clip of someone like Vanular and goes "Holy wow that is rad, Dad I want those funny twin tip ski things for Christmas."

Just like the backcountry hippie who really doesn't buy new shit for years on end influences the weekend warrior, the broke park rat influences the weekend warrior's kids. They also help build a new generation of brand loyal customers, as if you get someone young they stick to your brand as long as you maintain their experience.

Also Tom - I know that you say that park sales are low in whistler and pow sales are high - well if you talk to D-Structure in Quebec City they would say the diametric opposite.

As well, if whistler has a terrible year I imagine all the shops in whistler freak out? If Quebec has a terrible year, D-Structure still sells a ton of park skis to kids turning around mud to hit rails.

I'm not saying that park is the second coming of jesus christ or anything, but don't discount its relevance as a great place to get really loyal skiers into the system.

I also wanted to point out that the guys buying the pow/bc gear are not actually that old. I would say the most sales are in the 22-40 range so prime age for skiers. So it's not as though these skiers will be disappearing anytime soon.