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Valedictorian and Salutatorian, are they a good thing?

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theBearJew
Posts: 10951 - Karma: 15,633
So apparently in some places they thing that the top two academic students shouldn't be recognized in school anymore.

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2014/07/05/%E2%80%98valedictorian%E2%80%99-title-could-soon-be-history-pasco-county-fla


To me this goes along with the idea that everyone gets a trophy and we should encourage kids to compete against each other. The idea that its unfair to have the students compete for top honors is absurd. How is that unfair?


What does NS thing about this? Are there any Valedictorian or Salutatorian graduates on here?
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Jul 6 2014 11:32AM
41 14
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Olimar
Posts: 3535 - Karma: 4,076
I honestly just think Valedictorian should be recognized. Salutatorian is just like a runner up medal...
Jul 6 2014 11:37AM
3 0
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JAHpow
Posts: 7282 - Karma: 17,161
I'm not really for it because a lot of times the person who gets valedictorian just took all easy classes and got straight A's and the students who took advanced classes and got A's and B's won't be recognized for their obviously harder work.
Jul 6 2014 11:59AM
4 6
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Bombogenesis
Posts: 1984 - Karma: 4,006
Lol we are so quickly moving toward a society where individual success is frowned upon and we will soon be a bunch of layabouts with IQs of 65. Holy shit.
Jul 6 2014 12:16PM
2 2
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Tamas
Posts: 550 - Karma: 842
JAHpowI'm not really for it because a lot of times the person who gets valedictorian just took all easy classes and got straight A's and the students who took advanced classes and got A's and B's won't be recognized for their obviously harder work.


the valedictorian and salutadictorian at my school took every honors class and ap class we had.

with that being said, i throughly enjoyed getting shitfaced with the valedictorian and then proceed to hit on the sober salutadictorian 3 nights in a row after graduation.
Jul 6 2014 12:26PM
2 0
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Olimar
Posts: 3535 - Karma: 4,076
JAHpowI'm not really for it because a lot of times the person who gets valedictorian just took all easy classes and got straight A's and the students who took advanced classes and got A's and B's won't be recognized for their obviously harder work.


At my school, a weighted GPA committed this. Our valedictorian and salutatorian were pretty smart kids. Given there were without a doubt smarter kids in my class, these kids just tried the hardest and their hard work was rewarded.
Jul 6 2014 12:53PM
0 0
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stickski
Posts: 1938 - Karma: 1,529
JAHpowI'm not really for it because a lot of times the person who gets valedictorian just took all easy classes and got straight A's and the students who took advanced classes and got A's and B's won't be recognized for their obviously harder work.


Our valedictorian was decided by a combination of gpa and ACT score, so you can take easy classes if you want, but you still have to prove yourself in the test.
Jul 6 2014 1:02PM
0 0
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theBearJew
Posts: 10951 - Karma: 15,633
BombogenesisLol we are so quickly moving toward a society where individual success is frowned upon and we will soon be a bunch of layabouts with IQs of 65. Holy shit.


Everyone gets a trophy and if you're the best then that's good for you, keep it to yourself though.
Jul 6 2014 2:31PM
0 3
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VT_FLO
Posts: 3806 - Karma: 147
They should get recognized, but they shouldn't be able to have a speech or anything
Jul 6 2014 2:35PM
0 1
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HamFaceGirl
Posts: 5242 - Karma: 2,679
That's fucked up. How about we take away applications to college and jobs too? Everyone is equal!
Jul 6 2014 2:58PM
2 1
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TheQuailman
Posts: 7381 - Karma: 144
Seems like they're just replacing the valedictorian/salutatorian system with a Latin honors system because they think its more fair. It makes sense since there's little difference between class rank 1, 2, 3, etc. so you might as well recognize a whole pool of high achievers rather than just the top two.

That being said I'm a huge proponent of ranking students since it's important for college acceptances and it helps motivate students. And then if you're ranking anyway, you might as well recognize the top two students with those designations.

But I don't think this is a great instance of a school trying to make everyone equal - more so just an example of Fox News twisting a story.
Jul 6 2014 5:29PM
5 0
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Laurent.
Posts: 10054 - Karma: 25,277
It's a bad thing to abolish rankings, in the Netherlands it has led to the "zesjescultuur" (sixculture) everyone with a 5.5 (round of to a 6) gets a pass and that's it, people don't look at the grades so no one has the ambition to strive for a higher mark than that 5.5 because it requires more effort for which you get nothing in return.
Jul 6 2014 5:34PM
4 0
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acualywasdolan
Posts: 1172 - Karma: -747
There should be an award given to the lowest person in each class.
Jul 6 2014 7:09PM
2 0
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Lucas
Posts: 4877 - Karma: 1,520
acualywasdolanThere should be an award given to the lowest person in each class.


Like the fukboitorian
Jul 6 2014 7:45PM
3 0
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Bombogenesis
Posts: 1984 - Karma: 4,006
theBearJewEveryone gets a trophy and if you're the best then that's good for you, keep it to yourself though.




Nononono bad. Evolutionarily species are designed to flaunt success. We have stopped evolving as a species already, but were making matters worse.
Jul 6 2014 9:54PM
0 1
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Charlie_Kelly
Posts: 11953 - Karma: 12,292
PC man, its ruining America. We are breading a generation of weak-minded, cowardly individuals completely void of any hardship.

Plus this is just stripping kids of a reward for hard work. What a poor example we are setting for kids these days. Lifes not fair but kids these days won't ever learn that...
Jul 6 2014 10:01PM
2 0
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Bombogenesis
Posts: 1984 - Karma: 4,006
Granite_StatePC man, its ruining America. We are breading a generation of weak-minded, cowardly individuals completely void of any hardship.

Plus this is just stripping kids of a reward for hard work. What a poor example we are setting for kids these days. Lifes not fair but kids these days won't ever learn that...


Competition is healthy
Jul 6 2014 10:12PM
0 0
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caucasian_chad
Posts: 4078 - Karma: 3,625
JAHpowI'm not really for it because a lot of times the person who gets valedictorian just took all easy classes and got straight A's and the students who took advanced classes and got A's and B's won't be recognized for their obviously harder work.


In my high school, everyone who got a 3.75 or above graduated with honors, and I think discouraging that was the main reason why there was no valedictorian.
Jul 6 2014 10:16PM
0 0
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theabortionator
Posts: 51257 - Karma: 157,315
I don't care. Honestly was never like OMG I WISH THAT WAS ME but I see nothing wrong with rewarding people for good grades.
Jul 6 2014 10:18PM
4 0
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theBearJew
Posts: 10951 - Karma: 15,633
theBearJewEveryone gets a trophy and if you're the best then that's good for you, keep it to yourself though.


My sarcasm must have been misunderstood for serious reply.
Jul 6 2014 10:22PM
2 0
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Ribss.
Posts: 3442 - Karma: 3,344
Granite_StatePC man, its ruining America. We are breading a generation of weak-minded, cowardly individuals completely void of any hardship.



How do you bread a generation? Is it like breading fried chicken?
Jul 6 2014 10:58PM
0 0
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Charlie_Kelly
Posts: 11953 - Karma: 12,292
Yes to all.

But really breading was the wrong word, raising is more like it.
Jul 6 2014 11:10PM
0 0
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
BombogenesisWe have stopped evolving as a species already, but were making matters worse.


dude..what? no. we have absolutely not stopped evolving. is that comment based on that stupid attenborough quote??
Jul 8 2014 2:20PM
1 0
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KravtZ
Posts: 6637 - Karma: 2,629
Valedictorian at my school had literally a perfect 2400 on the SAT. She was a genius. Also smoked weed so dam much with her group of mega smart friends (all pretty cool kids)who went to MIT, harvard, etc. Don't think we should stop giving out the awards...competition only drives progression.
Jul 8 2014 2:35PM
0 0
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UphillIce
Posts: 123 - Karma: 138
I wouldn't do away with ranking kids at all, but I see why schools would want to move away from valedictorian/salutatorian models of ranking. I like the summa/magna/cum laude model better as long as the top bar is set high enough to mean something.

The problem I see with the valedictorian model (for the kids at the top), is that in schools where there are differentially weighted electives, top students are forced to take ALL of the weighted courses if they want to be at the top of the rankings. People can argue that this is good as it makes them take the most challenging schedule, but I would argue that it also forces students to take a generic schedule rather than taking a non-weighted class that would better fit their interests/planned career goals.

To give a personal example: had I wanted to be valedictorian, I should have taken AP European History as it was weighted at 1.2 of a normal class. However, it was at the same time as Psych and Soc, which I was more interested in. The weighting wasn't unfair, as AP Euro was much harder, but thinking about the effect on class rankings could have pushed me away from Psych and Soc, which I ended up loving. Years down the line, I'm sitting in a library writing up the Soc syllabi for the courses I'll be teaching this fall.

TL,DR: I'm all for rankings, but the often false precision of valedictorian measures can force kids into overly homogeneous educational tracks, particularly in schools with course weighting and a limited number of advanced classes.
Jul 9 2014 7:19AM
0 0
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Bombogenesis
Posts: 1984 - Karma: 4,006
RubberSouldude..what? no. we have absolutely not stopped evolving. is that comment based on that stupid attenborough quote??




I kind of meant physically. Mentally were obviously making leaps and bounds but the only explanation for that is
























aliens
Jul 9 2014 8:38AM
0 0
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theBearJew
Posts: 10951 - Karma: 15,633
UphillIceI wouldn't do away with ranking kids at all, but I see why schools would want to move away from valedictorian/salutatorian models of ranking. I like the summa/magna/cum laude model better as long as the top bar is set high enough to mean something.

The problem I see with the valedictorian model (for the kids at the top), is that in schools where there are differentially weighted electives, top students are forced to take ALL of the weighted courses if they want to be at the top of the rankings. People can argue that this is good as it makes them take the most challenging schedule, but I would argue that it also forces students to take a generic schedule rather than taking a non-weighted class that would better fit their interests/planned career goals.

To give a personal example: had I wanted to be valedictorian, I should have taken AP European History as it was weighted at 1.2 of a normal class. However, it was at the same time as Psych and Soc, which I was more interested in. The weighting wasn't unfair, as AP Euro was much harder, but thinking about the effect on class rankings could have pushed me away from Psych and Soc, which I ended up loving. Years down the line, I'm sitting in a library writing up the Soc syllabi for the courses I'll be teaching this fall.

TL,DR: I'm all for rankings, but the often false precision of valedictorian measures can force kids into overly homogeneous educational tracks, particularly in schools with course weighting and a limited number of advanced classes.



One could argue that the by you choosing to sacrifice your goal of being valedictorian for something you were more interested in taught you an important lesson about making sacrifices to being happy and finding enjoyment. If there was no top award you may still have done the same thing, yes. But you also may not have come out of HS with the sense of pride you have in choosing something you really enjoyed rather than chasing an award.
Jul 9 2014 10:17AM
0 0
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