Rockered tail = more pop?

I would say the opposite actually. It's the positive camber that gives the ski it's pop so if you add rocker you are reducing the amount of camber and therefore the amoun of pop.

tomPietrowskiI would say the opposite actually. It's the positive camber that gives the ski it's pop so if you add rocker you are reducing the amount of camber and therefore the amoun of pop.

the physics of it would seem like a small jump at the tail of your ski, though. so maybe "poppy" isn't the right word. Jumpy

smellsthe physics of it would seem like a small jump at the tail of your ski, though. so maybe "poppy" isn't the right word. Jumpy

What do you mean exactly? What do you mean by the physics of it would seem like a small jump?

Here's my take on it, with a bit of rudimentary physics thrown in. When you ollie, you load your tails and are curving them. They push against the ground, and the ground pushes back against you, sending you upwards. The more you flex a ski, the more it will push back. Now if your ski is rockered, you won't be able to flex it as much because the ski is already in a curved position - you would have less pop. Hopefully that made sense.

essentially its like the arches in our feet

im not expert, but my twin tips (4frnt crj) are the poppies skis ive ridden. i have fully cambered skis, and they dont even compare. i think it has to do with the core material. good luck

There are two different things that could be construed as pop.

1. How much does a neutrally weighted ski rebound/launch you off a kicker.
2. How high can you ollie on a ski.

Rockered skis with little/no camber provide virtually no rebound on takeoff (and much less out of a carve) and that is why they are generally considered to be less poppy. A cambered ski 'snaps' back in to it's camber profile as you leave the ground (unweight the ski) providing pop.

However ollies are a rocking motion, you rock back on to you tails and then 'pop' forwards, as you would on a skateboard. This is much easier to achieve with rocker as it makes it much easier to rock back/allows you to rock back further. The result of this is you can generally ollie higher on a rockered ski.

I don't know if I would call it pop. I can ollie a shit load higher on my one lifes and ghost chants than I can on any other ski, especially something that has camber. Rocker makes it so much easier. I can ollie over shit that's almost 4 feet high on my rockers. So much more fun than camber.

It's easier to get up onto your tails on rockered skis because you don't have to fight a camber as much, that might be why.

TwigThere are two different things that could be construed as pop.

1. How much does a neutrally weighted ski rebound/launch you off a kicker.
2. How high can you ollie on a ski.

Rockered skis with little/no camber provide virtually no rebound on takeoff (and much less out of a carve) and that is why they are generally considered to be less poppy. A cambered ski 'snaps' back in to it's camber profile as you leave the ground (unweight the ski) providing pop.

However ollies are a rocking motion, you rock back on to you tails and then 'pop' forwards, as you would on a skateboard. This is much easier to achieve with rocker as it makes it much easier to rock back/allows you to rock back further. The result of this is you can generally ollie higher on a rockered ski.

this is just the answer I was seeking

should've titled thread: Rockered tail = higher ollie?

smellsthis is just the answer I was seeking

You're welcome. For what its worth, the ultimate ski in terms of 'ollie pop' will depend on your height and weight. Usually it's some combination of camber and rocker. You can have too much rocker and too soft a ski which won't provide enough rebound.

I am 5'8 and 135 pounds and thus far the best ski for 'pop' for me is the Sir Francis Bacon. It has a mid-soft flex and a decent amount of rocker in the tail but provides enough snap back once the tail is loaded. Camberless skis like the hellbent and softer skis like the blend do not provide enough snapback and stiffer skis do not allow me to load the tails as much.

TwigYou're welcome. For what its worth, the ultimate ski in terms of 'ollie pop' will depend on your height and weight. Usually it's some combination of camber and rocker. You can have too much rocker and too soft a ski which won't provide enough rebound.

I am 5'8 and 135 pounds and thus far the best ski for 'pop' for me is the Sir Francis Bacon. It has a mid-soft flex and a decent amount of rocker in the tail but provides enough snap back once the tail is loaded. Camberless skis like the hellbent and softer skis like the blend do not provide enough snapback and stiffer skis do not allow me to load the tails as much.

well i find it weird that i can ollie higher 4FRNT EHP's than my line invaders

smellswell i find it weird that i can ollie higher 4FRNT EHP's than my line invaders

Have you considered that it is because the ehp is stiffer ten the invader. So it's not nesacarilly the rocker that is helping to pop higher but the stiffer camber of the ehp. In general soft skis won't have much pop as the camber is not acting like a spring as much. Pretty much the best ski I found to Ollie was the suspect as it was stiff and full camber.

I think you're misunderstanding pop. you'll always have a better pop/ollie with a cambered, slightly stiff park ski cause when you lean back and get up on the tails it bends the ski and fills them with potential energy. This is like pulling back on a bow and arrow or a rubber band. when you've reached the limit of the bend and jump, the ski releases its energy by snapping back into its naturally cambered state. the energy released in that motion enables you to jump higher.

a ski with soft flex won't snap back from that bend as forcefully, whereas a stiffer ski won't bend as much, thus won't have as much potential energy built up.

With that said, a rockered ski is easier to lean back on and get the tips up with so it is easier to get up and over things. But it's not as much of the pop that's getting you over, it's the ease of getting the tips up that's helpful. That's not to say that rockered skis aren't poppy and aren't useful in that regard, cause they are, but you'll get more real pop out of a cambered ski.

tomPietrowskiHave you considered that it is because the ehp is stiffer ten the invader. So it's not nesacarilly the rocker that is helping to pop higher but the stiffer camber of the ehp. In general soft skis won't have much pop as the camber is not acting like a spring as much. Pretty much the best ski I found to Ollie was the suspect as it was stiff and full camber.

yes i agree that the stiffness on the ehp makes a difference. they have reverse camber and rockered tail

My ep pro's and OG hellbents were easily the poppiest skis ive ever had, and ive had countless park skis. park skis dont even compare. only place normal camber park skis pop a little better is off bigger park jumps, but you're hardly popping/ollie-ing off your tails on park jumps anyway.

XtRemE11My ep pro's and OG hellbents were easily the poppiest skis ive ever had, and ive had countless park skis. park skis dont even compare. only place normal camber park skis pop a little better is off bigger park jumps, but you're hardly popping/ollie-ing off your tails on park jumps anyway.

Really both those skis suck to pop on as they are so super soft. What park skis have you been on if they are the politest skis you have been on?

tomPietrowskiReally both those skis suck to pop on as they are so super soft. What park skis have you been on if they are the politest skis you have been on?

for park skis ive ridden g butters, ar7's, multiple 4frnt's, invaders, multiple surface's, recoil's, volkl bridges, and tried others through friends/demo's.
so thats a pretty good mix of stiff and soft, normal cambered skis. between all of those, i dont think stiffer ever meant more pop. there's a lot more to a ski's pop than just how soft or stiff it is, some ski's are soft initially then stiffen up and give you a lot of platform to pop out of the flex, some are noodles all the way through but you can flex the crap out of them and still get a lot of spring/pop, and how the ski rebounds from being flexed is super important. i've always found stiffer skis harder to pop like an ollie, especially at slow speed, onto rails, etc.. thats where something like the invader kills it. but stiffer skis generally seem to pop better at high speed off lip's and stuff where its less of an ollie and more of a quick little pop. thats where a noodle just collapses pretty much.

anyway in regards to the ep's and hellbents, at high speed popping off park jump's they pretty much have nothing, you jump off the underfoot part of your skis because you dont have a tail to do that super quick snappy pop. but slow-medium speed, jibbing around, ollying on flat, and especially popping off random lips all around the mountain and BC, they are easily the poppiest skis ive ever ridden, it doesnt even make complete sense to me, i dont know the "science" behind it. but for some reason they just pop like a mofo.

maybe its something to do with them already being in a "flexed" position, maybe its more the shape of the ski and how it rides on the surface? rather than normal camber that pushes against/resists flexing and airing off the ground (a cambered ski with no rider input naturally would want to keep contact with the snow over bump's/lips, almost like suspension), and instead is shaped to naturally want to pop off and air off bumps, lips, features. (again with no rider input, think how a rockered ski would contact a bump, nose naturally wants to rise up the bump, the ski already wants to air off it before you even get to the tails, as the tails hit the bump they dont resist it, they want to deflect off of it rather than push down against it like a cambered ski) which would explain why they seem to pop so big with minimal effort, they naturally want to deflect off features, so any rider input to flex/pop off the tails just aids in what the ski is doing by itself.
it would also explain why they dont pop off big park jumps, because its a long smooth transition, they dont have that bump/lip to hit and want to deflect off. yet with jumps onto rails and natural features where its abrupt enough they pop so much better.

i dunno, thats all i can come up with, makes sense though, wakeboard companies seem to already understand the importance of aggressive rocker to get pop. i really wish ski companies would ditch the dual camber stuff and play around with flat underfoot/rocker for more park/all mountain skis. i could live with less pop off big jumps to gain that mega pop off small lips, onto rails, and flat ground.