Engineering in College

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Crazy Fool

i am 100% positive my sources are better than yours.

An MBA is only truly valuable if it is from a top 5 program. otherwise, you are better off saving your money and continuing to kill it at your job.

Yes an MBA from _____ State University may get you over the hump to an upper middle managment position...but i dont think that is a successful carreer? do you? an MBA should give you the foundation, connections, and name value to launch you to the executive level. thats the whole point of an MBA. If that is your goal, then yes an MBA is extremely helpful...but not neccessary.

And FWIW i am 25. My roommate, also 25 with a business degree from Santa Clara university, recently recieved an unsolicited job offer from the top VC firm in the valley(that means world) for 750k base +250k signing bonus. He doesnt have an MBA, nor does he plan to get one at this point. He just fucking kills it at what he does...i mean really, really kills it. I would be stunned if he doesnt have a C and an O in his job title working for a large tech firm in the next 5 years.

In the end, it all comes down to talent and work ethic. If you have both you are gonna be successful, and if you only have one you will be moderatly succesful, and if you have none youre fucked. An MBA wont change this.

Mar 6 2014 11:24PM

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JWoods

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I can usually manage 2-4 days of skiing a week in my Junior year of ChemE.

Mar 6 2014 11:26PM

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Crazy Fool

^Both your examples are anomalies to be frank. Take it from someone who has met with career investment bankers, financial advisors, accountants, etc. An MBA in business will get the average person much further than an undergraduate degree. Without sounding like an epic asshole rich kid, a close friend will tell me that what stops him from bringing in 8 figures is his lack of an MBA. Despite 30+ years in investment banking in the health services sector, he has found his plateau. One of his close friends manages over $20 billion a year as a hedge fund manager, and he will advocate that his MBA allowed him to be one of the first non-Harvard partners at the Harvard Management Company. He went to UW-Madison for his BA and MBA.

An MBA will provide the connections and foundations needed to jump start a career in a more adequate fashion than an undergraduate degree. The rest, like in every degree, engineers included, is up to personal drive.

But that let me clarify my original point. You both seemed to have glossed over it or I did not make myself clear.

My original point is not comparing a MBA in Business to any other degree, but rather the value of an undergraduate business degree to an MBA in business. I never stated a business degree will get you further in the business world comparatively to another. If you read The Outsiders, you would learn about CEOs such as Henry Singleton, Bill Anders, Bill Stirlitz and Dick Smith, men who ran companies that gave some of the best returns in history. One common factor between them all was their lack of an MBA in business. It usually was much more analytical (engineering, math, etc) than that of their competitors.

But to say that a business undergraduate degree will get the average person further than an MBA is simply not true. Your friend may have gotten far, but to be honest, as I have said above, it is an anomaly.

Mar 6 2014 11:39PM

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Crazy Fool

An additional point is that the times are changing. More people are going to college now than ever before, and as such, the job pool is becoming much slimmer. That extra line on your resume may not seem like much, but it can be the difference between you and the next person. These extra "qualifications" will become important as business becomes more political and competitive. 15, 20 years ago, an MBA didnt matter as much. Now, it is different.

Mar 6 2014 11:44PM

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.Duncan.

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On the contrary my friend who works for an energy company was making decent money with a Chem E degree and Environmental E masters but was getting stuck with advancing into more important positions. He went to University of Denver taking night classes while still working and got an MBA and has jumped up in positions exponentially.

My mom on the other hand only has an art history degree but is making over 200k a year, not because of her degree but because she knows her shit and gets things done. Although I certainly wouldn't recommend that path.

Mar 6 2014 11:57PM

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bgoldstein

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no love for chartered accountants?

Mar 7 2014 3:17AM

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Crazy Fool

Accountants are different. You guys require the CPA, which more or less comes from a Masters due to the credit hours required. Accounting honestly IMO is a great career path if you enjoy it. Everyone needs someone to follow the money trails.

Mar 7 2014 10:03AM

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Steve_MN

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I'm currently a senior in Composite Materials Engineering and It really is not as bad as everyone says. As long as you have a good work ethic and a basic grasp on simple mathematical concepts, you will be alright. I'm not saying its easy, because it's not. If you are thinking about it, just know that there will come times when you have to spend countless hours studying instead of skiing, partying, relaxing, etc. I chose engineering because I enjoy designing and building things. And the satisfaction of building something that YOU designed is amazing.

Mar 7 2014 11:25AM

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lIllI

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You're forgetting about the only two business degrees that aren't worthless: accounting and finance.

Mar 7 2014 11:35AM

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I mentioned accounting above. I wont claim to know much about a finance degree and the difference between a graduate and undergraduate degree in terms of usefulness.

Mar 7 2014 2:12PM

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406

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LFGGGGG!!!!

for my inertial navigation system for senior design

Mar 7 2014 4:11PM

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Crazy Fool

I guess i misinterpreted what you said earlier. I thought you were saying that an MBA is neccessary to advance to the higher levels of a company. That i disagree with.

Im 100% with you that an MBA+BA/BS is more beneficial than just a BA/BS. To say otherwise would be illogical.

I was trying to get across that talent beats credentials every time. So, an MBA may earn you a promotion but if the MBA was THE thing holding you back from being promoted in the first place your carreer advancement probly stops there. You still gotta have the skills, and without those an MBA has minimal value.

Mar 7 2014 10:32PM

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2_fadez

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I just finished a project mapping some shit 3d in matlab of an Oman oil reservoir and it makes me realize how much fun graphs and charts are to look at after putting it all together

i really want to post it, but we had to sign a nondisclosure agreement with the oil company for our class to not release their data, measurements, well logs, flow rate analysis, etc which sort of blows but is cool in a different way. really fun stuff even though analyzing 2500 points of data individually blows dick

Mar 7 2014 11:14PM

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caucasian_chad

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Yup haha, Accounting was my backup plan if I couldn't hack it in engineering school.

Mar 8 2014 11:36AM

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caucasian_chad

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I graduated from there as a civil and by looking at you guys' sample plan I can tell you that next year is going to suck balls for you. Tons of general math and science, but it gets better when you're in your major's classes. Physics 2 at UMD is the worst, do not take it with Sydor if you can avoid it. I had to retake that fucking class. Try to get it with Ludewig I passed it the second time around with him.

Mar 8 2014 11:50AM

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Dustin.

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The phrase "Kalman filter" makes me nauseous.

Mar 8 2014 5:33PM

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gigi.d

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I live in an engineering dorm (yay nerds), and did the IB program at my high school. IB was literally a joke to me, super easy and I didn't have to do a lot or try very hard and still passed all the classes and tests with ease. But the mechanical engineering major i'm in right now is really hard. Maybe it's just me, my lack of study skills and partial lack of interest in the topic, but it's ridiculously hard compared to high school.

You have to be ready to commit to long nights and lots of studying.

Mar 9 2014 7:44AM

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same as for any degree. but it's not like you do this every night. you can try and spread out stuff as much as possible, but there will inevitably times when you have to put in 14+hour days and that's just how it is.

Mar 9 2014 2:33PM

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Jaymon

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As someone who went trades school -> BSc (physics) -> Mech Eng

This shit gets gnarly

Prepare to ski half as much as you are used too.

Mar 9 2014 2:44PM

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I had 4 semesters in college where i put in 100 hour weeks EVERY week. Given, i am not prenaturally inclined to be an engineer and had to keep a certain GPA to retain scholarships. so that did contribute to my workload.

My last semester was a beast - 18 credits, Senior Design Project and Studying for the FE test. I would be in the CE computer lab at 630 am every morning, and wouldnt get back to my house till midnight at the earliest...every damn day- weekends included. I survived on canned chili for breakfast, adderall, poptarts, and coffee/mtn dew. I literally did nothing but school work my last semester...i drank alcohol exactly once- for halloween night which coincidentally happened to be the day of the FE exam.

The sciences are tough no doubt. In fact i would think that the material would be harder in many cases. From what i have seen engineering just involves material that, while very difficult, also requires more work to complete. For instance, in upper level courses a 1.5 hour test for my classes would be 3 problems(not a, b, and c parts either)...and you would be rushed for time. When you get a homework asaignment with 12 of these problems, and you are still learning the material unlike the testt where you know the prodcedure down pat, it takes a long ass time to get through them. I relied heavily on office hours for both my TAs and my profs. Like i went to every office hour and scheduled other appointments on top of it.

There is a lot of busy work to apply the concepts, you know? I lived with a guy who was triple majoring in Physics, Bio and Chem and i got the feeling it was kinda like, once you understood the concept it was quick to apply. The application aspect of scientific theories didnt require as much busy work form my what i saw. IDK, do you agree?

And no, this does not apply to all degrees. This applies to STEM degrees almost exclusivly.

Mar 9 2014 2:58PM

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No Life

first, how can you triple major in bio, physics and chem? Most schools would not even allow this. Even if they were allowed to do this, I don't see how anyone could do it without taking like 8 courses per semester (which no school would allow either). Unless they just got a general degree in physics/chem/bio.

second, 3 questions on a 1.5 hour test is like totally normal. The last physics mid term we had was one question, split into 3 parts, and 80 mins long. My final exams are about 5-6 questions in 3 hours. So that seems like exactly the same as a normal science course.

finally, 100 hours per week is ridiculous. maybe around the end of semester, but not for the full year. That's as much work as phd students have to do before quals. I know lots of engineers and they did not have to work close to that much, not even in their masters programs. Still I give you major props for working that hard, but I don't understand why it took you so much time.

Mar 9 2014 4:07PM

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Yeah, IDK what to tell you. I know he had to pay extra tuition, and was taking 23 credits during a semester. He had zero free time.

Second, I can see physics being comparable to Engineering in the type and duration of test/HW problems. Chem and bio not so much. that was more what i was refering to. Engineering is basically just applied Physics, so yeah, obviously they would be similar. I have a very basic knowledge of Bio and Chem, so maybe i am wrong, but it seems that it doesnt lend itself to large amounts of computation to find a single answer type problems. IDK.

Like i said, Math is probly the area of academics i am least naturally inclined. I also have ADD and had to keep a relativly high GPA for shcolarships, so all those things contributed to me having to work harder than almost anyone. I never learned a single thing within any of my classes, i was just trying to keep up with taking notes, let alone understand what the hell was going on. I learned by slowly going back over notes and examples after class. I also doent understand how people can think they are prepared for a test without being confident that they will get a 100%. i almost never did get a perfect mark, but i went into almost every test confident that it was a real possibility.

Mar 9 2014 4:21PM

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I dunno if physics exams are like this either. In fact I don't even remember the last time I had to compute something in a physics exam. Hell I don't know if there were numbers in the last one at all...

Mar 9 2014 4:26PM

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oh. nuclear physics we had to calculate some stuff. but we also were allowed calculators.

Mar 9 2014 4:28PM

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first time dealing with a test that would be hours too long if numbers needed to be calculated, huh?

And FWIW, its all computation based. analysis to set up the computation.

Mar 9 2014 4:45PM

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snowbladesforlife

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With a just an engineering degree you're going to get slotted as an engineer. The starting pay is high but many people want to move out of that so they get an MBA later on, but very few of them are able to relay this into something on the business side (BD/CD/etc. even within their own industry). You can argue all you want about this, it's either being pigeonholed as an engineer or their lack of personal skills/business acumen, but the vast majority of those doing a night and weekend MBA are not going to truly get into the business side and move up. They will be stuck in project management for the next XX years.

And recommending a combined MS/MBA straight from undergrad is a waste of time. No respectable

MBA program is going to allow people in with less than 3 years of experience. And for those outliers that's McKinsey/Goldman experience. Most engineers are going to have a tough time getting into top programs, it's possible, but it's going to be exceedingly difficult.

I would say if you're not going to a top 15 school, it's probably not worth it unless there's special circumstance (if you want to stay in a certain region/if it the school is a feeder into a certain company you want to work at). School is going to cost $75K per year with tuition and living expenses and you're forgoing salary for that time as well. I turned down a top 5 program because I didn't want to take on that much debt and have a hard time to move back to west coast, so it's all a personal decision.

Mar 9 2014 5:41PM

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I have no idea what you just said.

Mar 9 2014 5:50PM

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Chief.

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how is the FE test? i heard from a civil engineer that if you dont spend your last semesters of college studying for it its next to impossible.

Mar 10 2014 12:05AM

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Tough, but not too bad.

Its a lot of material, but it helps that its all fresh in your head. My school offered a prep course as a class, so i just used the material from there to study from.

Just wait for the PE haha. about double the material, 2-6 years removed from the last time you saw it, with a bunch of stuff you have never seen thrown in for good measure. its a blast!

Mar 10 2014 12:11AM

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salomonskiier12

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I just graduated now and am happily employed, along with EVERY other engineer I know. I can't think of anyone I graduated with who DOESN'T have a job.

With that said, I worked my ass off, spend way too many hours studying and doing work, but looking back on it, I wouldn't change it. I also managed to ski every weekend from october until May. Sophomore year was probably the hardest for us mechanicals, but I still managed to get over 40 days in; it's all about time management.

As for knowing if you want to be an engineer...do you wonder why and how simple things work (siphon, motors, axles)? Do you like tinkering with things, and want to bring your tinkering to the next level? Did you grow up playing with legos? Random, but there are certain questions you can ask yourself to see if engineering is really the best career for you.

If you have any more questions, feel free to message me.

Mar 10 2014 12:34AM

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When i graduated in December 2010 not a single person in the entire engineering school(CE, ME, EE, ChemE) was offered a job...and that includes the high acheivers- 4.0 GPA 4 years of kickass internships etc.

It took me 3 months to get an unpaid internship and another 4 months after that to get an entry level position. I was the first emplyee the company hired after they laid off 35% of their workforce in 2009. And this is the most well regarded civil firm in the bay area...there were just no projects happening.

I was freaking out there for a minute working graveyard at 24 hour fitness, an unpaid internship with public works during the day, and a job scalping tickets in the evenings. I was thinking "this isnt what i signed up for!" haha. I was lucky that my parents let me live at home for cheapish rent, or i would have really been in a tight spot.

But the economy is rebounding, and all the projects that were put on hold because of the crash are starting up again with a vengence. We cant hire Entry level and mid level Civils fast enough to keep up with the work we have.

Its a great time to graduate right now.

Mar 10 2014 12:53AM

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p.hawks

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It is a lot of work, especially if high school was easy for you. I typically never had to study or try much and still did very well in high school. As a result, college was a rude awakening for me. I'm majoring in mechanical engineering, and while I find it interesting and I love it, there are times when it just sucks.

Freshmen year isn't too bad, you will have more work than most of your friends though, but a lot of the classes are taken by all tech/science majors. At my school it is 16 credit hours freshmen year, and 20 from then on out. I would still go out a bit, but being a freshmen guy and not having that many options for actually helps.

Sophomore year it is more work, for me it was still mostly introductory type classes (statics, dynamics, strengths of materials etc.). I actually had a harder time with these because it is just a lot of what seems like busy work to get you to learn the skills. In a way, the upper level classes with higher workloads were a little easier for me. I went abroad in the spring (my school has this available for engineers, I loved it). Traveled all the time, went out usually 4-5+ nights a week.

Junior year is when it gets pretty rough. You need to have good study skills, motivation, all that to make it, and you won't sleep much. For most of the fall semester I didn't go out on weeknights. It was really hard for me to keep up (rehabbing a shoulder injury and a few other commitments), and I ended up dropping a class and switching to a 5 year plan (I am a double major with International studies as well, requires 16 credit hours on top of engineering, or 40 more than most other majors). Now, my junior spring, things are going better. I am back to taking 16 credits, I have much more time to have a balance with my work and school. I still spend a lot of time studying, and I don't go out quite as much as my friends, usually 3 nights a week now, sometimes a little more depending on the week. I am also just happier, I have time for things like watching netflix, hanging out with friends, taking an occasional nap, going to the gym (3-5 days a week depending on work).

As far as skiing goes, I am in PA, so I go for a few weekends with the ski team, but that's pretty much it. If the snow was better and I had my car (I usually get it for part of the semester), I would be able to go more. Before going to college I talked with my parents and basically realized that I could have 4 (now 5) years of good skiing and then do whatever, or I could put that to the side during college and make enough to be able to afford to ski more when I'm out of college. Also, I get 5 weeks (sometimes a few days extra) for winter break, and I will sometimes ski for spring break. My freshmen year I got 30-35 days at my home mountain, and about 12 more while at school. After that I was abroad/injured, but you can still get a decent amount in, and more if you have a car/ride and a good schedule.

That's how it has been for me, feel free to pm with questions. Not quite a typical experience, but maybe it will help.

Mar 10 2014 2:51AM

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shocker611

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Probably 50% of my friends that are graduating this year in BioEn that are going straight into industry already have a job, with a couple of them being over 100k starting. I'd definitely say things are rebounding.

Mar 10 2014 5:05PM

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what exactly is a credit hour?

Mar 10 2014 5:49PM

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jibnut

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My husband is getting his. He has zero free time but also works full-time. He is up in the wee hours doing school work Pretty crazy. I hope it helps him in the future.

I figured it just depends on what you want to do with your degree. Husband, who has his MMI degree for boat motors, wants to now work on Dams and things like that. He's getting his Civil.

Mar 10 2014 6:04PM

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p.hawks

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its a way of measuring how much work a course is/how much time you spend in class. At my school, every class is worth a "credit" (except for some music classes/chorus/rotc), but they are all equivalent to a 4 credit hour course. For us, it is mostly relevant for trying to transfer credits, like taking classes abroad or at another school in the summer, or actually transferring to another school.

Mar 10 2014 7:53PM

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snowbladesforlife

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Yea, or not.

Even with your elitist degree, unless you're killing it work wise or can position it like you are, then you it's not going to matter. I've seen an infinite amount of kids get shut down at Harvard/Wharton/Stanford because they thought their Harvard/Princeton degree and BS consulting/banking job would get them in anywhere. And don't expect to have your ungrad carry you that far when you're 5+ years out of school. You're MBA school and what you've done is going to matter more.

Good luck bro.

Mar 10 2014 9:08PM

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bigbromskier

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engineering is incredibly difficult. but design programs will destroy your soul.
while engineering solutions are (usually) based on correct usage of (albeit incredibly difficult) mathematic equations, succeeding in a good design program (meaning with good, non-subjective professors) is based on your ability to sell your creative ideas on a practical basis. ever had a project that you've worked on for literally hundreds of hours smited in an instant because a reviewer 'didn't understand' where you were coming from?
engineering is a shitload of work, but it's mostly objective, black and white applications; respected design programs take your long hours of hard work, rip them into tiny little pieces, and ask them to refine them into (seriously) 100 more iterations.

then you come out at the end with an entirely new view of hard work and how things work and why some things are appreciated and some things aren't. I think that everyone should have to take a design fundamentals course to teach you hard work and to really question why things should be done one way instead of myriad other ways. nothing in the real world is ever perfect, as typical mathematics tends to lead us to believe.

Mar 11 2014 12:14AM

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ihitchadsgap

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Ridiculous

I thought ns was just a bunch of dumbass teenagers.... I guess you cant judge a book by its 4xl tall-t cover afterall.

Mar 11 2014 1:35AM

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Ali_Dibden

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Im an engineer, its a pretty tough course but interesting if thats what you are into. As a bonus it gets you a shit load of good jobs afterwards that pay well which is no bad thing right now.

Mar 11 2014 10:23AM

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lIllI

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You do not understand engineering.

Mar 12 2014 1:15PM

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shocker611

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haha seriously. You're doing engineering wrong if its black and white. I'd almost argue it has a similar level of creativity as a liberal arts degree, it's just much different.

Mar 12 2014 9:33PM

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DoteMoney

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I'll be heading to Iowa state next year for engineering! Anyone go there currently or planning on attending?

Mar 12 2014 11:05PM

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.Duncan.

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Why

Mar 13 2014 1:06AM

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DoteMoney

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why not? It's what I can afford

Mar 13 2014 7:08PM

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2_fadez

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because education is priceless, and you shouldnt put a price tag on what you can afford now, if a better job from a better school will increase your salary an extra 20 grand a year for the rest of your career.
i've always been a firm believer of going to the best program or best school you can get into regardless of price. you'll only go to college once (hopefully) so don't take the cheap option. worse schools have worse companies recruiting at them and despite performance, still a lesser reputation associated with an accompanying degree. Aim high, earn high.

Mar 13 2014 8:44PM

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