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"The Male Gaze"

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987321654hgfd
Posts: 5133 - Karma: 5,447
So I guess this is what feminists new frontline is. Looking at women is now sexist and oppresive. I think the overweight mountain trolls that call themselves feminists are just jealous nobody has ever looked at them.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michaela-pommells/male-gaze_b_2326546.html

"I am a fist-raising radical who loves fighting and speaking out against tyranny and injustice."

"The male gaze is pervasive in our society. Most of the women I speak with say the most common way they experience sexual objectification is through the male gaze."

"The problem is not that men look at women; it is because they have the power to look minus the consequences."




Dec 24 2013 3:52PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
I really, really wasn't. I swear again on my mother's grave. Sorry to disappoint you and make you feel bad about yourself.
Dec 25 2013 12:31AM
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95959
Posts: 2765 - Karma: 377
took a sci-fi film class last term which somehow was incredibly feminist. Had to read the OG Laura Mulvey essay, she coined the term "male gaze." Was not a fan.
Dec 25 2013 12:32AM
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Phil-X-
Posts: 7205 - Karma: 14,399
Literally retarded...



Women think men are holding them to some high standard when its them who are actually setting impossible standards. Im not trying to marry a 90lbs 5'11" Victoria secret model. They say mens looks dont even matter, yet guys are the ones that are held to ridiculous open standards by chicks every day.

Girls spend hundreds of dollars fuckin painting their faces trying to look attractive.... but yea thats my fault. Fucking bitch
Dec 25 2013 12:33AM
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*TURBONERD*
Posts: 15078 - Karma: 9,136
It's off the thread topic, but society conditions women to think this way. If you don't fight the problem you're a part of it in such an entrenched situation.
Dec 25 2013 12:35AM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
How is it a straw man argument? How else are we supposed to argue about this besides personal experience? Unless you know of academic studies that focus on the things guys call girls based on how they are dressed. If you're an attractive girl wearing little clothing you're going to be called hot by some guys, and a slut by others.
Dec 25 2013 12:35AM
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Charlie_Kelly
Posts: 11953 - Karma: 12,296
Same. Took analyzing film, read the article, wrote a 1,000 word final paper on it. Fuck that shit. Mulvey is so one sided its sad.
Dec 25 2013 12:40AM
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Captain_Slow
Posts: 1677 - Karma: 24
Why do you keep stating how many words are in your essays? 1000 words is like four pages man. Although I do feel your pain... Last semester I had to write two papers on sexism, one in the workplace and one in the media (that one was pretty simple though, all I had to do was turn on the TV for 5 minutes and I had 6 examples)

Anyway, I agree and disagree with her. Agree because I see it every single day in NYC and it annoys me. Its pretty funny to watch actually. When an attractive girl is near me, i sometimes look at how the man is looking at her, which is usually accompanied by some weird fkin comment that makes me want to punch him in the face...

I disagree because I gaze as well.
Dec 25 2013 12:53AM
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Charlie_Kelly
Posts: 11953 - Karma: 12,296
Haha sorry I know its not a big deal, it was just 1000 more words than I wanted to write on the topic. And that was the last of maybe 4 or 5 essays I had to write dealing with feminism.
Dec 25 2013 12:59AM
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Captain_Slow
Posts: 1677 - Karma: 24
Did you choose to take that course? It's one offered in mine and someone who took it said she rlly disliked it. I was considering taking it, but decided to skip it after how awful she made it sound.
Dec 25 2013 1:02AM
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Captain_Slow
Posts: 1677 - Karma: 24
^^ 5 papers on feminism does sound rough though, Ill admit
Dec 25 2013 1:02AM
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Charlie_Kelly
Posts: 11953 - Karma: 12,296
I did but I didn't know a film course would delve so deeply into feminism. And it was with a professor I had the previous year who I know is a feminist but never really flaunts it or makes you write/study it. IDK I just get sick of feminists and their whiny attitude in general. Most take a stance like "we want the same rights as men, except with exceptions". I'm just feministed out.
Dec 25 2013 1:09AM
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Toaster-Tony
Posts: 3531 - Karma: 5,850
Taking feminism-based courses is actually pretty fun if you find the right ones, I had a few literature courses that focused on it pretty heavily. The main difference between those courses and this is that the women we studied stood up for equality in education, the workforce, societal class, and in other areas that deserved acknowledgement.

This however, saying that a man looking at a woman because he is attracted to her, is complete bullshit. Women do it too. It's completely natural. It's just how we're sexually wired. It's science.

If someone acts on a sexual urge inappropriately or comes across as plain creepy, yeah have at it, that's definitely a cause for action. But just glancing at someone you find attractive is all within human nature.. or all nature for that matter.

This lady isn't a feminist.. just a bit too self-absorbed, in my opinion at least.
Dec 25 2013 1:24AM
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Dr.Dealgood
Posts: 2587 - Karma: 1,352
Fucking LOL at whoever thinks the male gaze concept is NEW. That concept has been around since the days of early Hitchcock films, and before. Dayum, read a some fucking Judith Butler you lightweights.
Dec 25 2013 2:44AM
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Bodhisattva_
Posts: 5749 - Karma: 2,009
Slooooooot
Dec 25 2013 3:12AM
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-benedetto
Posts: 5238 - Karma: 1,359
I'm not sure what rocks some of you guys might be living under but it must suck being a chick. Constantly approached by guys and put in awkward situations with creepy men staring at you. A teenage girl should feel happy that a construction worker is honking at her? That's crazy.

And when out with a bunch of guys or even one, do you not judge girls based on whether you'd fuck them? Objectifying them in that manner, hardly respecting anything else but their sex appeal.

But hey, it is natural and tough to make an even playing field when girls have tits!!! Taking a second to think about this situation, regardless of the shitty article, she has a REAL point. Don't just dismiss it because words like feminist send off alarms..
Dec 25 2013 6:13AM
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Charlie_Kelly
Posts: 11953 - Karma: 12,296
You're right, lets ignore basic human nature.
Dec 25 2013 10:58AM
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artfullydodged
Posts: 8358 - Karma: 1,674
Male Gaze is a legit theory but that article is fucking stupid.
Dec 25 2013 11:17AM
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howlongcanausern
Posts: 4982 - Karma: 1,737
tits or gtfo
Dec 25 2013 11:22AM
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joshua
Posts: 5046 - Karma: 1,280
IMO I think the problem is that HUMANS objectify HUMANS. Its true that males objectify women, but women objectify men as well, and men objectify other men, women objectify women, and both sexes objectify themselves. You can see this in the fact that women think they are ugly if they don't look like a Victoria Secret model, or in the awkward kid who is shunned in high school b/c he didn't make the football team. This issue certainly isn't specific to the "male gaze" as OP put it, I think the issue goes a lot deeper than that. People often objectify people (and themselves) based on appearances and superficial things.

Now about the issue specifically in the OP, that also goes both ways. Women "gaze" at men as well.
Dec 25 2013 1:32PM
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joshua
Posts: 5046 - Karma: 1,280
Although I do agree that the objectification of women is an issue, but I think that the article in the OP was a little shallow.
Dec 25 2013 1:35PM
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SlurmrnHurnyBurn
Posts: 315 - Karma: 765
This is the only subject that makes me mad on the internet. I'm leaving, enjoy your squabbles on a topic that doesn't matter.
Dec 25 2013 1:42PM
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bdarb207
Posts: 3057 - Karma: 438
She even says she, "gazes at men who are dresse well or a shirtless runner." Such bs, so I can't look at an attractive woman because society as a whole is fucked up? But it's fine for her to look at me because of the media and hype? I was raised with manners and to treat women with respect, but because some guys are shit bags I am to be outwardly ashamed of this for them? That is where these arguments lose me, they don't want to be equal, they want to be superior. Sorry being attractive is soooo hard.. Do ugly woman give a shit about the male gaze?


It's human nature, what the hell is this women getting at? Darwin is rolling over in his grave..
Dec 26 2013 8:02PM
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bdarb207
Posts: 3057 - Karma: 438
And to the idiot who posted like eleven times that a guy going Ina party shirtless isn't seen as bad but a girl is , you must be the d bag doing this because I promise everyone thinks that guy is a tool.
Dec 26 2013 8:03PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
yeah, they call him a "tool," but never a "slut" or a "whore"

which is considered worse by society?
Dec 26 2013 8:12PM
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bdarb207
Posts: 3057 - Karma: 438
Is that a rhetorical question? You tell me what society as a whole thinks and ill let you know you are wrong. That Is problem with this whole thing imo is that it relies greatly on generalizations. She thinks men are d bags.. Cool I'm a guy and don't treat women like a douche so where does that leave her argument?

To say nothing of the fact that she's essentially arguing human nature is innately wrong. She even admits she does it but these non tangible societal norms make it okay for her and not me? Give me a break.

Dec 26 2013 8:23PM
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bdarb207
Posts: 3057 - Karma: 438
Ill restate my question, do ugly women mind a male gazing at them or are they flattered. Feminism isn't specifically for attractive women.. She just needs to get over herself. Cool you'll make sure no guy ever looks at your daughter.. See how that goes for her..
Dec 26 2013 8:26PM
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bdarb207
Posts: 3057 - Karma: 438
Funny, I was dating a girl once and she caught me checking her out. She called me out,and I apologized perfusely. She says and I quote, "don't ever let a girl tell you she's pissed that she cauight you checking her out, all girls enjoy it."

Granted she can't speak for everyone but she is a self proclaimed feminist. If only she knew how demoralizing she was being..
Dec 26 2013 8:30PM
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Snowtorious_BIG
Posts: 659 - Karma: 1,467
^This guy pretty much nailed it. It's instinct to try to find an attractive female to reproduce with and to try to say that our instincts are wrong is retarded. Nice try though feminists.
Dec 26 2013 8:49PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
Yes, it is. Being a "tool" is considered stupid, but ultimately harmless. "Whores" and "sluts" are definitely not considered harmless. Obviously not by everyone, but by most people, yes.

The author pretty clearly doesn't think all men are "d bags." Her main point is essentially that "A women's power rests in her ability to capture male attention and do whatever possible to hold that attention," and that the same isn't true for men. Is she entirely right that a woman's only power is her ability to capture male attention through her looks alone? I don't know. But is it more true for women than for men? I'm pretty sure it is.

She also never says it's okay for her to stare and not for you. She thinks it's unfair that men "have the power to look minus the consequences." Again, I can't say whether or not she is correct, but let's not accuse her of saying things she is clearly not saying just to ridicule her, and, by extension, all "feminists."
Dec 26 2013 8:56PM
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bdarb207
Posts: 3057 - Karma: 438
I'm sorry but I have to respectfully call shenanigans. The only way to capture male attention is by looks? I appreciate her defining how I look at women but I'll do that myself thanks. There can never be a level playing field and as long as SOME feminists think there will be they will draw unfair conclusions for an entire gender.

A women dresses like a slut and I think shes a slut. If she chooses to put herself out there like that, she must then accept the consequences. I don't date girls who look like, "sluts" (as you seem to define them), I date girls with class and intellect and sleeping with them is certainly not my number one priority. Maybe this comes with age but to think that every girl needs to rely on looks to find a mate is crap and if she blames that feeling on society she is not holding herself accountable because there are PLENTY of women who do.

You don't like how women are portrayed, don turn on the damn television. I dont..
Dec 26 2013 9:04PM
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pmw
Posts: 5760 - Karma: 829
Dude we get it you have a small peen, give it a rest
Dec 26 2013 9:05PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
Like I said, I don't know if what she thinks is entirely correct or not. Personally, I agree with you, I don't think the ONLY way women capture the attention of males is through their looks. But I do think it's more true for women than it is for men.

You're more or less exemplifying exactly what the author talks about in the article. You don't think there is anything to a girl beyond her looks, i.e. a girl dresses like a slut (sidenote-i only define them as such because that seems to be the most commonplace thing people call girls who wear less clothes than they would like), you assume she must therefore be a slut, and therefore have neither class nor intellect, despite the fact that the way a person dresses has very little correlation to how smart they are or how much class they have. I don't think the same is true, or at least as true, for men. They don't have to worry as much about the "consequences" of having people around them consider them to be a trashy human being if they dress provocatively at a party.
Dec 26 2013 9:40PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
that may be so, but at least i don't get so butthurt about something someone said on the internet that i feel the need to insult their penis size
Dec 26 2013 9:41PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
sorry, "you think you can learn everything you need to know about a girl just by the way she looks" is a better way to put that
Dec 26 2013 9:52PM
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shocker611
Posts: 2599 - Karma: 423
Am I the only person that would be absolutely stoked to have women staring at me? Sure it would get obnoxious if women cat called and shit, but since when has it been such a terrible thing that people are checking you out? Isn't that the goal of everyone buying attractive clothing is to get the attention of the opposite sex (I can't be the only one not buying the "I feel empowered wearing this and don't care if it makes me look good bs)? I mean girls go out and spend $100 bucks on some tight ass jeans, why would they do that if they didn't want the attention that it brings with it. It definitely isn't more comfortable I can tell you that much.
Dec 26 2013 9:52PM
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bdarb207
Posts: 3057 - Karma: 438
I'm exemplifying what she wants me to exemplify. Respect is earned. How a person presents themselves says alot, if they choose to start imo, in the hole because they make themselves look like sluts, thats their perrogative.

I am an outdoor enthusiasts, and an athlete. If people look at me and think I'm a 'burnout' or a 'jock' and unintelligent because of my appearance, that is their choice. I am more than happy to confound them, just like 'sluts' are more than welcome to confound my notions.


It makes no sense to me, they dress slutty because we make them? no. They do because they think that's what guys want. They are attracting poor mates and they have no one to blae but themselves. I think girls like guys with money. Are they then responsible for me working a job I hate because it pays for what they like or what I presume they like.


Maleism right there.
Dec 26 2013 10:00PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
I definitely agree that people all too often make snap judgments about people based on how they look/are dressed, and that there is too often a need to "confound" the expectations people have of us based on their snap judgments

I do think, though, that it's a lot easier for women to find themselves in the "hole" than it is for men. Or maybe it's easier for men to find their way out of the hole once they're in it than it is for women. I'm not really sure which.
Dec 26 2013 10:23PM
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bdarb207
Posts: 3057 - Karma: 438
I would argue their looks do in fact get them preferences at time, if they don't like it wahhh. That's like me complaining I'm white so I to a great job.ugly guys face the SW issues as ugly women in terms of pwrsecution
Dec 26 2013 10:40PM
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-benedetto
Posts: 5238 - Karma: 1,359
There is difference between flattering a girls ego and the "male gaze." At least to me, the gaze is the more creepy aspect of staring and having weird fantasies in your head while doing it..
Dec 27 2013 6:30AM
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