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Is It Racist?

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Chubbs.
Posts: 1018 - Karma: 2,647
What do you guys think about the NFL trying to change the Washington Redskins' name?
They want Renegades, Warriors, or Griffins

My school mascot used to be the Redskins and they ended up changing it without any student say.. which was a bunch of bullshit

Obama is all for not changing the name.. dudes a G
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90% of Indians don't find the name offensive... so what the fucks the deal

Oct 8 2013 5:49PM
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DANIELMORTENSEN
Posts: 272 - Karma: 1,032
Kool aid
Purple drank
Oct 9 2013 11:22AM
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tgm
Posts: 278 - Karma: 325
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Oct 9 2013 11:30AM
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CaptainObvious.
Posts: 5711 - Karma: 20,627
I partook in a hearty audible chuckle as a result of that picture ^
Oct 9 2013 11:33AM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 268
I have literally no idea how you can think redskins is racist. it in no way is trying to say that one race is superior to another, and it doesnt show any kind of hatred towards one race, native americans have red skin, redskins, wohoo.

this is just idiots with nothing better to do than seek out things to get offended by.
Oct 9 2013 11:41AM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
It's the same as, for example, calling a black person the n word, a jewish person a "kike," a chinese person a "chink," a Mexican a "spic," etc.

None of those names inherently say that those races are inferior, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find many people who agree that they aren't racist.
Oct 9 2013 11:47AM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 268
the term redskin didnt originate as an insult, it was used by native americans as a self identifier when negotiating with french or americans to differentiate between the two races. and it became widespread from there.

its much different than a term that originated out of racism or originated as an insult, or at least has a much bigger history of being used as an insult.

shit, a lot of these "derogatory" terms only became so because of political correctness and people going out of their way to seek out things to get offended by, just trying to create racism out of nothing.
Oct 9 2013 12:27PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
But the Europeans made it something derogatory. Is it as bad as calling Indians "savages?" No, obviously not, but it is racist.
Oct 9 2013 2:28PM
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shocker611
Posts: 2599 - Karma: 423
I hate this shit. We (the U) used to be badass indians and now were some flapping fucking bird. I could understand if a tribe came out and said that they thought it was insensitive, but they never do that, and generally support the names
Oct 9 2013 2:41PM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 268
they didn't though, it was simply a term they used for a native american, a term that native americans themselves used. i just looked this shit up out of curiosity, and the only time the term was linked to some kind of negativity was in some kind of racist cartoon in the early 1900's with the word redskin in the title. but if they had used "native american" instead, it would still have that negative relation.
the term doesnt have any racist meaning behind it, sure you can use it in a negative manner, just like you could with native american. but that doesnt make the term itself racist, or a sports team racist. if anything i think its much more positive than negative being used for a team name.

and shit, even if it truly had a racist origin, fuck it, people get so damn offended by anything, i dont know why the hell we have to cater to their lack of a fucking backbone, and make everything all glitter and flowers. fuck stooping down to their level, people need to grow up and get over it. get a fucking hobby or something.
Oct 9 2013 2:54PM
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snowpocalypse
Posts: 1036 - Karma: 3,525
I still can't get over the Red Storm as a team. My Wife is on her Red Storm and nobody want to play with that.
Oct 9 2013 4:35PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
We can split hairs all day on whether or not "redskins" is in itself racist and never come to a conclusive decision, but the idea that it is a positive thing to have a native american team name/mascot is, I think, definitely not true. I'm taking a native american history class right now and we've talked about the whole mascot thing a little. I think the offense most natives take, apart from the names themselves, is that they feel that the names/mascots objectify native americans and, by extension, the whole native american experience. I think the Cleveland Indians logo is much worse, what with the cartoonish, smiling Indian and all, than the Redskins, but a lot of native americans find both objectifying.
Oct 9 2013 6:28PM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 268
i can see how some people might find it to be objectifying. i dont necessarily agree that it is objectifying, but regardless, how is that offensive? we have the celtics, patriots, vikings, raiders, etc.. and you dont see people bitching about that.

i just dont see how someone can be watching a game on tv, see that the redskins are playing, and let it get to them, regardless of your race. like how does someone get to the point of actually getting emotionally hurt because of a maybe somewhat objectifying team name, like what kind of person is that weak minded?

its just our politically correct culture and the people that seek out things to be offended by so they can have something to get pissed about and feel above everyone else. thats what it seems like to me.

if your actually tying to be offended, ok, i can see how you can choose something like the redskins to be offended by, if you come at it from a negative angle, yes, you can find something to cry about. but if your not, you just have to be an extremely emotionally/mentally weak person to let something like that get to you, especially to the point where they're willing to put in the time and energy to try and get the name changed.

i dont think its offensive, or racist, or anything, its a fucking mascot, and just out of principle, there is no way we should be conforming to these PC idiots with nothing better to do than get pissed at shit for the hell of it. these type of people only create issues out of nothing, create racism where it didnt exist, and overall just make everything worse because they want to feel like theyre important or something.
Oct 9 2013 7:23PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
None of those groups have been decimated/marginalized by America the way the Native Americans were/are

And you're looking at it from (presumably?) the position of a white male. The least marginalized, abused group of people in the history of the world. It's hard for you to understand because your people have never been oppressed for hundreds of years, nor put through genocide.
Oct 9 2013 7:57PM
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Casey
Posts: 7784 - Karma: 23,456
Its strictly because it identifies a group first and foremost by their skin color. You can't do that in the work place or in any sort of government civic service capacity. What Obama said was, 'if I was the owner' that he would probly do it. He's not the owner, Dan Snyder is, and he thought about it and said no. Just put it this way, if the red skins have a bunch of bad seasons and get sold to an out of town ownership group with a secret agenda of relocating the team, their name will change
Oct 9 2013 9:12PM
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2_fadez
Posts: 7780 - Karma: 4,180
Fuckkkk, they changed their name
http://onion.com/1gqPlGL
Oct 9 2013 9:25PM
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Iliveinutah
Posts: 1250 - Karma: 5,147
came into this thread expecting something else….
Oct 9 2013 9:33PM
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K-Dot.
Posts: 3703 - Karma: 7,375
I hate that approach that you just said. So just because I'm white I'm less credible for anything racial? Just because someone's people were oppressed at one time doesn't mean that they themselves actually have any connection to those events other than maybe a story. How does my great great great great great grandfather being oppressed at one time have anything to do with the NFL? It doesn't.
Oct 9 2013 11:26PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
No, of course nothing you say in terms of race is less credible just because you're white, but it means that when someone who comes from a race that was oppressed or killed off almost to extinction and you say "i don't get it, why are they still upset?" that maybe your views aren't the most legitimate out there.

"Just because someone's people were oppressed at one time doesn't mean they themselves actually have any connection to those events other than maybe a story"

What a stupid fucking thing to say. If you don't think Native Americans or blacks or hispanics aren't still oppressed in America today, or at least aren't impacted by being oppressed at one time, you're a fucking moron. End of.

"How does my great great great great great grandfather being oppressed at one time have anything to do with the NFL? It doesn't"

Of course it doesn't, dumbass. But it has a lot to do with sports teams saying "Look! our mascot is a happy, smiling native american! Look how pleasant they are! Despite us killing essentially all of them off! Isn't this nice!?"
Oct 9 2013 11:37PM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 268
its not the people in these groups TODAY that were affected. shit, in a lot of cases is not their grandparents or great grand parents.

i would argue that treating these minority groups so special and careful, trying not to offend them, it only makes the "racism" worse. lets use blacks as an example. i would definitely argue that our politically correct, soft culture is only feeding the problems with inner city blacks, poverty and crime. we are so scared of offending, dont want to point out any flaws, etc.. we make it ok for blacks and other minority groups to live that shitty lifestyle and even support it by giving them special treatment. where if it were a white person in the same situation, we wouldnt hesitate to point it out and not just accept it.
you cant preach equality and give certain groups special treatment, you cant try to achieve and create equality by doing the exact opposite.

i read an article recently(ill try to find it and post it here) saying that the percentage of blacks, in relation to whites, who are in or have been to jail, members of gangs, divorced, etc.. have something like tripled orquadrupled since the 30's, and doubled or tripled since the 60's. meaning the problem has increased as political correctness and this BS equality treatment has increased. and it wasnt hardly an issue when they were actually dealing with horrible racism and treated like shit.

anyway, my point is, in cases like this, changing a team name thats been around forever in an attempt to make some people feel better and not hurt their emotions, is only creating more inequality and making the problem worse. and not only for equality, our culture has in general just gotten so fucking PC, soft, etc.. we are a nation of complete pussies, and catering to those who get offended by anything and everything just makes it worse. we need to move on, get over it, and not cater specially to any one group of people.





Oct 11 2013 10:56PM
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ElMexicano
Posts: 639 - Karma: 400
the Indians/native americans/ self identified redskins don't even care

this is the pussification of America right here
Oct 11 2013 11:22PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
Like I said, if you really believe that minority races in America today don't still suffer from racism or at least with the ramifications of oppression in the past then you're a fucking moron.

The rest of the post...what the hell are you talking about?
Oct 12 2013 12:06AM
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AT-AT
Posts: 3281 - Karma: 3,256
"The smallest minority is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of the minorities"
Oct 12 2013 12:37AM
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Casey
Posts: 7784 - Karma: 23,456
Wat. Dude you make the mistake of thinking you were born into a perfectly fair equal society free of oppression and racism. When a shitty cal is made in a football game, the team that is benefitted says the refs are doing a great job. One example: Do you know why most cities have "black" districts and ghettos? I can only speak for Seattle specifically. But we are liberal and toward thinking and still have this issue as bad as anyone. The reality is that up through the 1960s banks would literally only lend money to black people for homes in certain neighborhoods. The shittiest ones away from all the amenities and community essentials that the white neighborhoods had. This was my and your parents generation, so what in Gods name are you talking about?
Oct 12 2013 12:44AM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 268
Of course there's still racism going on. There always has been and always will. People will always think differently about certain people for how they look, act, their background, race, gender, etc. it's never going to end, it's human nature to look at something and make a judgement based off whatever information you have. We can't prevent that.
But what we can do, and what America still hasn't achieved is to give everyone the same, equal opportunity to seek life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. And you cannot achieve that by giving certain groups of people special treatment that you don't give another group. That in itself is only promoting more inequality.

I'm getting off onto the law/government side of it, but the same idea applies to how an individual or in this case, a business treats different groups/races.
If you are careful not to offend one race, or hesitate to criticize one individual because of his race, while not hesitating to criticize someone of another. You're only creating more inequality.

I don't see how choosing to treat one person normally, another critically, and another carefully, isn't in itself racism.

I think by not changing the redskins name because some people got offended, and not catering to one group of people because they're of another race. That's promoting equality, while saying "ok you guys had it rough, we'll pamper you" is promoting inequality.

Oct 12 2013 2:56PM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 268
So what do you think we, or our government should do? Racism and oppression on some level will always exist. Back in the 60's and before that, our government allowed and contributed to that racism and oppression. In many cases they caused it. And I'd argue that it's still going on today.

You can't and shouldn't force individuals to be nice to everyone, treat everyone as equals, etc. but our government can and should, treat everyone as equals. wouldn't you agree?

Though I don't agree with or like racism. I'm glad people are allowed to express it up to the point where it interferes with someone's rights.
Oct 12 2013 3:16PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
What a stupid fucking thing to say.

It's not pampering them, it's respecting them as a race. The same way you don't see teams named the Atlanta Negros or the San Francisco Chinamen or the Houston Mexicans. The Native Americans aren't caricatures and they certainly aren't mascots of mainstream America, and they shouldn't be treated/represented as such.
Oct 13 2013 3:32PM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 268
because a black guy, a chinese guy, or a mexican dont make a very interesting mascot, but a native american that looks like some warrior straight out of the 1800's, is pretty interesting. just like the cowboys, vikings, celtics, fighting irish, raiders, etc.. are all pretty cool, interesting mascots. they arent just a generic race, its more specific, just like redskin's points to a more specific type of native american since its the word they used to self identify back when they were still living in tribes and first interacting with europeans.
your just looking for a way to make it offensive.

Oct 13 2013 4:49PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
You really, honestly think that's the reason that there are no non-white mascots besides Native Americans? That there was never a time in history when any other race besides the Indians could be considered fearsome or interesting?

And it's not about the name being offensive, because, as you said, the name isn't inherently offensive, it's the idea of objectifying native americans that makes it bad.
Oct 13 2013 5:18PM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 268
sure, there are other races that could make interesting mascots, a samurai, a mexican guy with a poncho and sombrero, etc.. you see both those "characters" used a lot for tons of different things. a samurai would be weird for an american sports team, a native american mascot just makes a lot of sense because its such a big part of our history. i dont know what you'd use for a black/african mascot, so you stumped me there.

but man, fuck this, i dont know why im still arguing, I'd just like to know what kind of people have the time to let this kind of thing get to them. do they not have other shit thats actually important to worry about? do they all just exist around college campuses? thats the only time i remember people actually caring about this kind of thing. reminds me of the sheltered east coast liberal as fuck hippies, getting offended because somebody, somewhere, somehow, might get a little offended, "so im gonna get offended too" but ever since then i dont think ive ever run into anyone else like that.
Oct 14 2013 3:31PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
Why is a samurai any stranger for an american sports team than, say, a viking, or a buccaneer, or a celtic, or a raider?

any kind of African warrior? A runaway slave searching for freedom? Ahh yes, I can see it now...the St. Louis Negros, mascot a runaway slave. I'm sure nobody would have a problem with that!
Oct 14 2013 6:49PM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 268
i dont know, fuck, ask the football teams why they didnt choose to be the samurai's. you remind me of the elementary school textbooks where every picture with multiple humans in it has a white kid, black kid, asian, mexican, indian, and a kid in a wheel chair.
Oct 14 2013 10:57PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
it's because the celtics, vikings, pirates, buccaneers, raiders, patriots, cowboys, cavaliers, etc. etc. are all white mascots and the only race besides white that is deemed acceptable to be used as a mascot besides whites are native americans
Oct 15 2013 12:05AM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 268
who ever said it was deemed unacceptable to use non white or native american mascots? being a mostly white nation it would make sense that we would relate better to our european ancestors. and that the next best race we could relate to would be native americans, because they played such a huge part in our nation.
why the fuck do we need to have racially diverse mascots for a fucking football league? i cant believe we're even arguing about this, how can anyone actually give a shit?
Oct 15 2013 12:13AM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
We don't. Who said we did? But it's ridiculous to say the native americans have no right to be offended when they are the only race besides whites being caricature-ized in such a way.
Oct 15 2013 12:23AM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 268
Oh they have the right to be offended, but it doesn't mean we need to go censoring anything that could be a little offensive to someone. I'm Irish, I don't bitch about the fighting Irish "objectifying" or "caricaturizing" my Irish heritage, or portraying my race in a negative way. I have plenty of excuses to get offended, especially with my family's history, but I don't because I at least have a hint of fucking emotional strength. And if I didn't, well that's my problem and I'd need to sack the fuck up and realize not everything's gonna make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
Oct 15 2013 1:23AM
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Wallisch_pl
Posts: 5260 - Karma: 1,022
hahaha skiierman is a ginger hahaha fucking f!#%$#
Oct 15 2013 10:45AM
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coling
Posts: 1086 - Karma: -3
This. Fucking losers crying about the name redskins
Nov 5 2013 1:36AM
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coling
Posts: 1086 - Karma: -3
Wow way to get owned you tool
Nov 5 2013 1:38AM
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coling
Posts: 1086 - Karma: -3
It does make it worse i agree.
Nov 5 2013 1:40AM
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Cufe.
Posts: 1950 - Karma: 262
Change it to Team Washington Marlboro Budweiser. They would have so much money they would just buy the best players and win all the time, then people can complain they promote smoking and drinking instead of racism. Everyone is a winner!
Nov 5 2013 2:12AM
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slav_slayer
Posts: 476 - Karma: 1,821
I actually read that Native Americans like the representation in the NFL.
Nov 5 2013 8:53AM
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.AR6rider.
Posts: 15976 - Karma: 8,799
I just want to point out that, before we invaded, there was no such thing as America. Calling them "native Americans" is just as stupid as calling them "redskins." If Red Dawn were to happen someday in the future, we wouldn't suddenly become Russians.
Nov 5 2013 9:10AM
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KZA
Posts: 3304 - Karma: 301
Been a lifelong redskins fan from the DC area. The name is going to change, it's only a matter of time. Hell, we started as the Boston Braves, were the last team in the league to desegregate, and our fight song used to say, "fight for old dixie" not "fight for old dc". It's not like we aren't used to change

Redskins is like saying something is gay. No matter how little offense I mean to gay people, the word itself is inherently offensive to some. Nobody is claiming that Redskins fans are racist and hate Native Americans, but the name itself inherently has offensive connotations. The Oneida Tribe and others have even said that our mascot and logo are the least offensive and most appreciated by native Americans. Stop playing the politically correct card too, all the argument says is "I know it's racists and have no defense but I shouldn't listen because you are telling me to." I've yet to here one good argument for why we should keep it other than "it's our history and has been this way" or "don't tell me what to do"

So, it's pretty simple. Change it to the Washington Warriors and keep the exact same colors, mascot, fight song, everything. No need to completely break with tradition here. We can also use the old spear logo too. Finally, as part of the name change, the Wizards must be changed back to the Bullets. That is the only way to move forward in my opinion.

Also, to whomever thinks we should be the griffins, die.


Nov 5 2013 9:17AM
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K-Dot.
Posts: 3703 - Karma: 7,375
Then what should we call them?
Nov 7 2013 12:53AM
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coling
Posts: 1086 - Karma: -3
Bullets was such a better team name
Nov 7 2013 1:07AM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
just "natives"
Nov 7 2013 8:10AM
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TechnoPotamus
Posts: 11626 - Karma: 3,522
Decepticons
Nov 7 2013 8:31AM
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MASkier
Posts: 657 - Karma: 704
I would approve if the griffen looked like this
Nov 7 2013 10:45AM
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MASkier
Posts: 657 - Karma: 704
I would approve if the griffen looked like this
Nov 7 2013 10:45AM
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KZA
Posts: 3304 - Karma: 301
This isn't the damn premier league or some bs. We're not Swedish or European and we better not change our name just to resemble the last name of our quarterback. I'm sorry, but Griffin is one of the dumbest names i've heard thrown around.
Nov 7 2013 10:52AM
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