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LGBT Athletes in Sochi

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MaxBerkowitz
Posts: 440 - Karma: 2,611
As you may know already, Russia is incredibly homophobic. Russia recently introduced a law that makes it "illegal to spread information about non-traditional sexual behaviour." Basically, gay pride rallies are banned, publicly stating you are gay to a minor is banned, and if you read between the lines, free speech is banned.

Four Dutch tourists were arrested and jailed after interviewing a gay 17 year old for their film on gay rights issues in Murmansk.

It gets worse.

Vitaly Milonov, one of the lawmakers behind the "Homosexual Propaganda" law has stated that athletes in Sochi will have to abide by these rules. That means any LGBT athletes will not be able to be with their loved one for support during the olympics. If an athlete speaks out about the gay rights atrocities in Russia, they will suffer severe consequences.

Here's where NS comes in. There are multiple athletes competing in the 2014 Olympic Games who regularly read this site. If you're on an olympic team, you can help out. Next time you have an interview on National Television, talk about gay rights in Russia. It's that easy. Spend 5 minutes talking about how disappointed you are with Russia's "Homosexual Propaganda" law. Let the world know what's going on.

NS, rate this up so everyone can see it on the splash page!
Share it to Facebook and Twitter!
If you have a friend who is competing in the Olympics (seems like everyone claims they do) tell them!

Thanks folks.
Jul 30 2013 11:46PM
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CrotchKiller
Posts: 9037 - Karma: 6,940
"i dont see the russian public trying to do much to stop them."

oh man, I must have missed the part where you're an expert on foreign affairs

Aug 2 2013 1:03AM
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mstevo
Posts: 237 - Karma: 300
this must be a troll - right?
Aug 2 2013 2:21AM
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rockersteez
Posts: 593 - Karma: 1,199
Are you fucking kidding me? Don't ride the front of the bus because they have laws against it. Don't be gay because they have laws against it.

And this is coming from somebody who's massively against us forcing ourselves on every country around the world. Human right are human rights. It's the olympics, it's what this is about.

I mean, if you don't care then ignore it. Suggesting that people should just not be gay, or that people shouldn't protest in any way because it's their laws is fucking ridiculous.
Aug 2 2013 2:40AM
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Nortsx
Posts: 37 - Karma: -101
This thread contains one thing i don t really realise.

I travel to Europe pretty often so i see some problems Eropeans have. And, really, gays is not the great problem you have to deal with.

I really don t understand: if gays have human rights why do they have to get more than average heterosexual human?

And for one more: gays are not prohibited in Russia. You can love one with the same sex, you can go out with him and nobody will arrest you. Russia now has a great ethnic problems(as Europe does with the albanians and muslims) and gays are not a primary problem for us.

Btw as i ve seen there are a lot of fashion in being gay, so for my humble opinion: i want to avoid it. I don t want such a scenario:

Father: Hello son how u r doin?
Son:Hello dad, i ve seen fresh gay video on TV and they said it might be great! I met my friend albert and we decided to be a gay couple.
Father: *heart attack*

Aug 2 2013 2:54AM
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Nortsx
Posts: 37 - Karma: -101
Sry, second post

As someone told before the law as itself is not dangerous for lgbt

There is definition of propaganda(free form):

Distribution of information that can form some behaviour templates or which can invoke some actions or prevent some people to invoke actions.

Phew.. smthn like this. It s the hard work to translate russion juridical for me :)

Are you planning to call up some people for being gay? No? What are guys afraid of i wonder?
Aug 2 2013 3:01AM
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whoa-dere
Posts: 10596 - Karma: 7,100
is it true that they are having athletes watch gay porn to see if they get boners? cuz that'd just be hilarious
Aug 2 2013 3:01AM
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Nortsx
Posts: 37 - Karma: -101
Muahaha it might be funny one. But to be honest i m not sure they even check athletes for dope


Aug 2 2013 3:13AM
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NoSkillsCrew
Posts: 1197 - Karma: 2,058
Can't tell if troll...or just really fucking stupid. Not that anyone is owning up to this on here, but being of a not straight orientation, I will say that most things that exist are heterosexual propaganda. We aren't asking for more rights, just the same. And the law in Russia means that you can be non-heterosexual in private (as long as you don't have children), but anything you may do outdoors with your partner could result in a fine or jail time. Do you see a heterosexual couple being threatened with jail time for hugging or kissing in public in Russia? I don't think so. THAT IS INEQUALITY.
Aug 2 2013 4:43AM
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Nortsx
Posts: 37 - Karma: -101
As i recall i didn t see homosexual pair being jailed for kissing on the street. I ve seen a couple kissing guys in Moscow some times and nobody gave a fuck bout it.

You just can t kiss in the child eyes and i don t kiss my girl when the children is nearby. Anyway it s courtesy.


Aug 2 2013 4:55AM
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NoSkillsCrew
Posts: 1197 - Karma: 2,058
Ohhhh realllly?

Headline reads:

Russian gay rights activists detained after 'kissing protest'

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/06/11/uk-russia-gay-idUKBRE95A0GD20130611
Aug 2 2013 5:15AM
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Nortsx
Posts: 37 - Karma: -101
Does press always telling the truth? I m not sure. To tell you what: Here in russia totally not allowed to make demonstrations without permission. So it was the rule regulation, not because they are gays. And if you want to hear my opinion about people who surrounded those activists: there are a lot of people in Russia who hates homo, but u can find em in your city btw :)

And i just remember demonstration in france AGAINST gays (there were much more than 20 people isn t it?) and it was ignored by the government.
Aug 2 2013 6:11AM
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NoSkillsCrew
Posts: 1197 - Karma: 2,058
Im done with bigots. Just because it happens in other countries does not make it O.K. for it to happen in yours. And I actively protest and stand up for my rights here in the U.S. There is homophobia in every country but in France and the U.S. there is freedom to engage in homosexual activities without fear of jail or fine. All I have left to say is this:

Click for larger image
Aug 2 2013 7:01AM
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Nortsx
Posts: 37 - Karma: -101
What s the matter with you? You asking everyone be tolerate but you are not tolerate to every point which is different from yours? Is that what you call human rights and so on?

Meanwhile today in Russia

Click for larger image
Aug 2 2013 7:13AM
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bpalmer
Posts: 2408 - Karma: 93
I understand you're trying to educate here, but I have to point out one thing:

that is the most insanely, ridiculously broad definition of "propaganda" i've ever heard. It's also the broadest and most ambiguous legal definition i've ever heard. under that definition, anything can be considered propaganda.

"hey man have you seen that show queer eye for the straight guy? it turns out, these guys know a thing or two about fashion. you should check it out so you'll finally stop wearing those pleated leather MC hammer pants with ed hardy graphics."

boom. that's propaganda. it has invoked some action. the action of taking off those god damn pants. which, now that i think about it, will probably be the next big skiing fashion.
Aug 2 2013 9:49AM
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Pipe_Munky
Posts: 10887 - Karma: 2,165
There's a huge difference...you're talking about imposing restrictions on people because of their sexual orientation.

Tell me this, at the end of the day, when all the bullshit is put aside with government and laws, how does homosexuality impact you negatively? Don't give me some bullshit about gay sex or porn or whatever, how does it affect upon your life?

Personally, seeing two guys make out grosses me out but who am I to tell two people they can't? That's my own closed minded opinion and I would never think less of a person because of it.

Aug 2 2013 9:55AM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
no, it's not. I would hope it's obvious why, but apparently not to some of you kids.
Aug 2 2013 9:56AM
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SFBv420.0
Posts: 2539 - Karma: 3,124
you are aware of the reasoning behind that boycott are you not?
We sure showed them a thing or 2 about occupying 3rd world countries with military force.
one of the stupidest hypocritical political decisions this country ever made.
ive got the boycott and Russia not hosting closer to 1 million to 1 and
most "REAL" rastas are "REAL" homophobics.




Aug 2 2013 10:08AM
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Pipe_Munky
Posts: 10887 - Karma: 2,165
damn...didn't finish...


Human rights is about equality for all people. You're free to have your opinion but when your opinion causes harm to another person and makes them feel like less of a human being, then people are going to be against you...and rightly so!

Here's something from the UN's Declaration of Human Rights
http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/
Article 1.
•All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.



See the part where it says, "equal in dignity and rights."? What opinions like your's do is violates that. You aren't judging a person based on their character or personality, you're merely judging them based on their own sexuality, something they were born with and can't change. You're taking hate because people are judging you based on your closed minded opinions that you developed with your own free will.
Aug 2 2013 10:10AM
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Byron_tha_gr8
Posts: 4573 - Karma: 14,298
based on russian's comments and the polls that have been shown saying over half the country basically thinks that homosexuality should be illegal, and the 20% that think gays should be "eradicated", it doesnt take an expert to see how it could happen.
Aug 2 2013 10:13AM
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SFBv420.0
Posts: 2539 - Karma: 3,124
bullshit there are plenty of things and ways of disagreeing but not hating
just because you may be able to tolerate another mans junk in your orifaces doesn't make you less hatefull
just bi curious
congrats on that
Aug 2 2013 10:22AM
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Billiards.
Posts: 6853 - Karma: 816
This thread is funny. US members seem to actual think the US respects all forms of sexual orientation as a society and has reflected this respect in it's legal system.. which it hardly has and most certainly has not on a federal level.
Aug 2 2013 10:29AM
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.ZT.
Posts: 5679 - Karma: 2,792
Holy shit you're thick. I honestly hope I don't even have to explain what he is saying.
Aug 2 2013 10:31AM
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Byron_tha_gr8
Posts: 4573 - Karma: 14,298
the federal court ruled that gay couples could have the same rights as straight married couples. I agree we still have legal inequality, especially in some redder states, but within 5 years i really think almost all of those bigot laws will be gone. We have certainly made massive changes, look back a decade and the rhetoric was completely different
Aug 2 2013 10:40AM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,141

You do, that guy literally doesn't have a brain, he's functionally impaired. But don't bother because it isn't worth it.

Other than him I think the only person who hasn't been on the same page has been the guy with 17 posts who I assume is a troll.

Aug 2 2013 10:58AM
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Billiards.
Posts: 6853 - Karma: 816
I mean yeah, before 2003 a homosexual wasn't even allowed to engage in sexual activities in the privacy of his or her own home. That being said, the fact that it did take us a decade to realize what the federal courts did a few weeks ago doesn't to me, mean that we are moving so outrageously fast. One decade ago, when the winter olympics were in Salt Lake City, we were on a similar page to Russia. Just now have we acknowledged legal status for same sex marriages. In no way are these couples recognized as a protected class anywhere like school or the workplace though. What Im saying is that we haven't earned the right to be cocky about it yet.
Aug 2 2013 11:15AM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
Please point out a place one person has said that, or even come close to suggesting it.
Aug 2 2013 11:27AM
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Brule.
Posts: 3849 - Karma: 5,665
He's talking about the history of the issues of same-sex marriage that has occurred in the past ten years in the U.S.
Aug 2 2013 11:29AM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
He made this claim: "US members seem to actual think the US respects all forms of sexual orientation as a society."

i'm asking him to show where one person has claimed this to be true.
Aug 2 2013 11:33AM
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Byron_tha_gr8
Posts: 4573 - Karma: 14,298
Yeah no. There wasn't nearly as much of a push for equality here in the 2002 olympics, but there also weren't laws passed federally saying talking about gays should be illegal, and 20% of the USA did want to see gay people exterminated. I do wish were moving faster, but Russia is clearly moving the opposite way we were in the early 2000's. We are most definitely not a similar page.
Aug 2 2013 11:38AM
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hoodshoe
Posts: 129 - Karma: 1,055
I love to see the ns community taking on an issue like this I 100% support this and hope to see it spread farther than just ns.
Aug 2 2013 12:08PM
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bpalmer
Posts: 2408 - Karma: 93

At the federal level, LGBT rights are relatively solid. States take different stances but there is certainly a trend towards equality in the past few years.

As someone else pointed out, conservative states will continue to resist the trend, but at some point, it becomes a constitutional issue that states cannot overcome.

Even so, the US is pretty forward-thinking on this issue. Here, it's about whether or not LGBT couples can marry. In Russia, it's about whether or not they can publicly gather or have a newsletter or a support group or even a website. The law is so ambiguously written that virtually any public discussion in support of LGBT rights can be considered a crime.

That having been said, I am genuinely surprised at the vigilant support expressed by the NS community on this. Some responses have been mature, some very immature, but most have been on the right side of this issue.

Aug 2 2013 12:13PM
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Brule.
Posts: 3849 - Karma: 5,665
Many religious people are fighting strongly against same-sex marriage. They are going around saying, "Being a homosexual is a sin, and you could burn in hell for eternity for being gay." I'm not religious, but my parents are surprised at me for supporting same-sex marriage. One day, I heard so many illogical reasons as to why same-sex marriage is wrong according to religious people. One person said, "Gay marriage should be illegal because they can't reproduce." I thought to myself, What about the couples who are infertile, and can't produce offspring? Either way, the infertile and same-sex couples can, in fact, maybe become foster parents or they always have the option to adopt a child. That's just my opinion, but like I've said a few times before in this thread, people have a right to marry whoever they want without being discriminated or criticized. If you think that same-sex marriage is wrong, IMO your reasons are illogical and politically incorrect.
Aug 2 2013 1:22PM
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JAHBRADOR
Posts: 3002 - Karma: 16,941
Russia is not in Europe...
Aug 2 2013 1:28PM
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Brule.
Posts: 3849 - Karma: 5,665
Part of Russia is in Europe, but the majority of it is in Asia.
Aug 2 2013 1:30PM
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stickski
Posts: 1938 - Karma: 1,529
I know this guy is a troll (hope), but I just wanted to quote this... Really no explanation necessary.
Aug 2 2013 1:56PM
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Billiards.
Posts: 6853 - Karma: 816
Before 2003 when Lawrence v. Texas was passed, Bowers v. Hardwick held and allowed Texas to punish homosexual acts that were performed from within private homes. This was a decade ago.. The federal government did not care that a home could be broken into by law enforcement if it meant stopping homosexual activities. There may not have been open and straight forward bigotry from the federal government, but if you know what these court cases meant in practice, you would realize that our government was doing what it could to silently suppress the actions of those with a disagreeable sexual orientation. Not to mention the fact that only a slight majority is in favor of allowing same sex marriage just NOW.
Aug 2 2013 3:07PM
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Byron_tha_gr8
Posts: 4573 - Karma: 14,298
a slight majority is in favor of MARRIAGE, a vast majority is in favor of us not taking away MORE rights from gays. There is a massive difference. And that was a few states that really didn't enforce those laws, not an entire country that is threatening to impose those laws on foreigners. Also a huge difference. And of course the federal court didn't care care if a home was broken into to enforce local sodomy laws, because those local sodomy laws aren't enforced in the first place. The last real stand against equality the federal government took was DOMA, and that was well over a decade ago.
Aug 2 2013 3:46PM
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Nortsx
Posts: 37 - Karma: -101
Huh i ve seen some valid arguments in here.

I need to clarify things one more time.

Yes for me nothing changes with the gay legislations and to tell the truth i don t understand such a rule at all, we have more important problems to take care of. But on the other hand i don t understand such great deal about gays in here. Can you explain it guys?

I want to see people happy and loving each other, but i don t want to see some gays on the TV, telling to me and my children how awesome it is(huh, btw, i haven t got chidrenfor a moment :))
Aug 2 2013 4:57PM
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dr.awkward
Posts: 1461 - Karma: 26
Almost every one has a friend of family member that they love and who is gay. This includes the skiing community. If the NS stayed silent on this issue, they'd be throwing their gay friends and family under the bus, and a lot of people in the US, Canada and Europe don't want to throw their friends and family under the bus. When you realize that gays and lesbians are just normal people that want to be happy, homophobia in any form just comes off as incredibly ignorant.
Aug 2 2013 5:16PM
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Byron_tha_gr8
Posts: 4573 - Karma: 14,298
maybe this is different that what you hear, but almost all gays aren't trying to "convert" kids to become gay. They just want to be treated as you or me are.
Aug 2 2013 6:29PM
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youRsmellA
Posts: 349 - Karma: 236
I think the russian law is dumb and they have better things to worry about. But, I would warn against having a black and white view of what is moral and also against employing a view that everyone should be ultra-free regardless of the reality of life in that country.

What if other countries demanded that we abolish our immigration laws and let everyone come live a healthier, longer, life here? How dare we discriminate against poor latinos who can't help being born somewhere that doesn't teach job skills.

What if amsterdam or nevada demanded your state allow prostitution? Some professors support legalizing prostitution and think it could reduce rape by 25% in the U.S.

Should we be allowed to slam vodka in public and get hammer drunk around kids at a park? I mean you're just having fun not hurting anyone. Tons of us call drug use a victimless crime, would you say that we should be able to smoke weed in public? What about discreetly smoking heroin in public with an E-cig device? Second hand smoke argument: shoot up then.

Are you ok with child marriage when both parties adamantly claim that they love each other? (an admittedly extreme example but how about marriage between a brother and sister over 18?) It isn't inherently clear what is a basic right and what isn't, you need to make a coherent argument.

Again, I think this russian law is dumb and I am against making new discriminatory laws. I am against it because in the last 10 years our governments have steadily become more invasive and they have justified it in court by adding things to previously accepted definitions of illegal behavior (rather than proving from the ground up that the thing should be illegal). When we set the precedent to discriminate by lifestyle we invite the definition to be expanded until everyone's lifestyle is subject to some punishment (except those who write the laws.)

The point of this post is to get everyone to be more nuanced when expressing their views. There is a gradient of freedom and we should argue for a point along it, it's not a free-and-right vs. oppressed-and-wrong battle. There are no absolutes when you are debating morals and you need to give reasons behind your stance. In reality it's not the side who is 'right' that wins but the side that makes the most coherent argument and to an extent the side that creates a majority in the population.

P.S. Another thing you should consider specific to gay rights in russia is that the country went through 15 years of population decline. You could show gay people didn't have any effect on that but it is a pretty powerful fact that politicians can spin to trick the population into thinking there is a gay attack on child producing families.
Aug 2 2013 10:38PM
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NWPA
Posts: 2309 - Karma: 165
what? not to mention you are totally contradicting yourself, when have you ever seen this sort of thing on television? I know people that are gay and in no way have they ever told me how "awesome" it is or have tried to force their views on me at all.
Aug 3 2013 2:49AM
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Nortsx
Posts: 37 - Karma: -101
I m really happy if you haven t heard it, but i ve seen Cannes festival and there were two films about homo love which won that. For my point - it s not the good film about homo love and something, it s poor film about homo love and it won just because it is about homo.
That s what i m talking about.

Aug 3 2013 5:23AM
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Nortsx
Posts: 37 - Karma: -101
As i understanrd you are not from Russia=)
Yes your laws and regulations are REALLY dumb, as dumb as our idiots in government(straight correlation isn t it). But anyway there are 1000 and 1 way to fuck the law and to avoid punishment.
And also i agree - if you have absolute freedom you mean that you have anarchy in your country
Aug 3 2013 5:39AM
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Brule.
Posts: 3849 - Karma: 5,665
You sound like an idiot. Throughout this whole thread, the eight pages in whole, you've been contradicting yourself over and over and it's making you sound ignorant. Just wanted to put in my two cents in there.
Aug 3 2013 11:27AM
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Heart
Posts: 6156 - Karma: 3,462
lol @ LSM's 224 downvotes on a single post
Aug 3 2013 1:35PM
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casual
Posts: 6712 - Karma: 6,746
Here is the disconnect: homosexuality is not a lifestyle choice, a fashion decision, nor is there an entity or group attempting to persuade heterosexuals to become gay. It's your, and your countrymen's utter lack of understanding that's so incredibly frustrating. Do you personally feel "at risk"? In other words, do you think that if you watched a gay tv show you'd then want to be gay? Did someone persuade you to be attracted to women? No, right? You just knew/know that you have a natural, strong, definitive attraction and desire to be with a woman, right? Well, that's how homosexual people feel. Almost always, and in my own personal interactions with gay friends and acquaintances, they invariably say that they've known they were gay from the very moment that they became aware of the concept of sexuality. All of this is to say, everyone Russian in this thread treats homosexuality like drug addiction. Meaning, that you think you're doing the greater good by "stopping others from becoming gay", and that's simply not reality. No one is telling you that you have to be gay, that being gay is superior, nor is anyone telling you that you personally have to approve. The problem emerges when heterosexuals want to dehumanize gays and prevent them from living otherwise normal lives. This whole argument about reverse tolerance is laughably intellectually flawed. The argument would only stand up if gays were attempting to legislate against rights for heterosexuals or attempting to criminalize heterosexual behavior. No one in the gay community is lobbying straight people to be gay! If you don't want to look at gay "propaganda" then don't watch shows that deal with homosexuality...period. It's just the belief that you seem to have that gays are coming for your children that is so fucking dense. I could go on and on, but for what?
Aug 3 2013 2:16PM
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Bombogenesis
Posts: 1984 - Karma: 4,006
The old joke about Russia being so backward that "food eat you" or whatever is obviously not really a joke. These people are absolute idiots in office over there. I don't care that Texas had a bill 10 years ago or whatever that persecuted gays in their own homes for homosexual acts...yeah that's messed up too but it doesn't provide a cover for Russia. It would be cool if the games got moved because a country shouldn't be allowed to host one of the worlds longest standing good hearted competitions where everyone should be treated equally if they're going to be so bigoted.

I can't believe it's still even an issue nowadays anywhere in the world.

P.S. whoever banned me for a week for being a homophobe??? (I was just reinstated today)...thanks?
Aug 3 2013 3:15PM
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louie.mirags
Posts: 6015 - Karma: 5,028
They say people hate what they fear... big dicks aren't scary if you're in to that sort of thing. At least consider that's why you disagree with it.. you like the cockkkkkk
Aug 4 2013 8:20PM
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Nortsx
Posts: 37 - Karma: -101
Where did i contradicted myself?
My position is simple:
1)I don t want to eradicate gays.
2)I don t think that it is cool to see gays on TV and i really don t want to see it.
3)There were just 2 pages with my participiation
4)My point is: I never called anybody idiot or smthn and you sir allowing to yourself to do that? Who is the "stupid countrymen" around here?
5)I didn t feel anything to girls 'till i became 14 or 15 or smthn, i suspect that children point of view to being natural can be changed to gay
Aug 5 2013 4:43AM
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