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Thermodynamics Project Help/Ideas +K

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bdonn
Posts: 725 - Karma: 89
Hey NS,

I'm working on a thermodynamics project and I'm looking to see if there are any other engineers on NS that might have a better approach than my current one.

Here is the assignment.

Click for larger image

My current idea is to use a long aluminum piston and insulate a "hot plate" from the piston and cylinder. Use about a 1'' diameter or smaller piston and plenty of vac grease for a seal on a rubber piston gasket. Gravity could also be used to my advantage.

If any NSers have suggestions or help that they could provide I would greatly appreciate that!

Thanks,

BDonn
May 13 2013 2:24PM
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whoa-dere
Posts: 10596 - Karma: 7,100
^ but the thing says you can't use potential energy
May 13 2013 2:48PM
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p.hawks
Posts: 2832 - Karma: 581
simple hot air balloon could work, though it would be tricky getting it set up. Key is that it says any direction. Super busy now, but I'll see if I have any other ideas haha
May 13 2013 3:01PM
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Darth.Maul
Posts: 2472 - Karma: 652
The gasket in te cylinder would most likely hold it in place so gravity wouldnt be doing much work. You could make a crank and handle to make the piston go up an down like in a cumbustion or carnot style motor and then you turning the crank would supply the energy.

Dodnt read the assignment so im not sure if thats allowed. The text is too small to read on mobile.
May 13 2013 3:14PM
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theblackrod
Posts: 2162 - Karma: 575
Would two tea candles burn hot enough for the hot air balloon idea though? I like the idea though
May 13 2013 3:50PM
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C-Burg
Posts: 4729 - Karma: 130
sterling cycle engine, look them up they are pretty easy, will give you rotary motion and then you can pretty much do whatever you want from there
May 13 2013 3:57PM
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stizzle
Posts: 371 - Karma: 623
The piston idea works but you could make it simpler. Look at a thermometer... insert a piston at the top of the fluid and put the bulb over the flames. Just don't use mercury as the fluid.
May 13 2013 4:03PM
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stizzle
Posts: 371 - Karma: 623

^ Just re-read the rules... not sure if that goes against the no chemical energy part...

May 13 2013 4:06PM
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p.hawks
Posts: 2832 - Karma: 581
thermal expansion is a property of matter, a state change may cross the lines, but it would also be hard without prepping the system (ice or something) using only two candles. I would consider chemical energy in this sense to mean something like using the heat from the candles to trigger a chemical reaction, like knocking vinegar into baking soda. Hot air balloon, think like one of the last scenes in hangover 2 if you know it. Tissue paper frame with basket for the candle. Drop the quarter in the basket and make sure the frame of the hot air balloon is semi rigid to help in start up. Not sure if it would work, but I feel like there is a decent chance. Just saw this and it looks like there is some potential for it.

http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Mini-Flyable-Hot-Air-Balloon-with-Candles
May 13 2013 4:16PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,500
Use a candle and heat to move a wheel idk anything about this but I read that in a book like 5 years ago.
May 13 2013 4:20PM
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bdonn
Posts: 725 - Karma: 89
All great feedback, I really appreciate it.

Looking into all of your suggestions.

Regards,

Bdonn
May 14 2013 3:26AM
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FightClub27
Posts: 486 - Karma: 416
Hot air balloon popped into my head when I was reading it, I would say that would be the easiest approach. or you could do half a rankine cycle and heat water to steam, spin a turbine and use that work. sounds like a pretty cool project tho
May 14 2013 12:50PM
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bdonn
Posts: 725 - Karma: 89
I also like the hot air balloon design. However I'm not sure how to implement tea candles into a balloon type design... I feel like they might have too much mass, opposed to candles that are used in birthday cakes. any ideas to expand on that?
May 14 2013 5:17PM
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FightClub27
Posts: 486 - Karma: 416
I'll think about it. there are those japanese wish lantern deals that use those candles (http://www.amazon.com/White-Chinese-Lanterns-Candle-Wedding/dp/B009SUAKRG)and they would definitely lift a quarter but Is your original idea using air or water? I dont know how long it would take to boil water with a couple candles but that idea might work as well.
May 14 2013 6:24PM
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p.hawks
Posts: 2832 - Karma: 581
these are what I was talking about when I made the hangover 2 reference, nice find
May 14 2013 6:52PM
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bdonn
Posts: 725 - Karma: 89
The skylanterns did not work, not enough heat power from two tea candles to heat the balloon...
May 27 2013 7:19PM
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chicken
Posts: 6843 - Karma: 2,122
would it work if you made like a water wheel but opposite?
May 27 2013 7:23PM
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chicken
Posts: 6843 - Karma: 2,122
i'm imagining something like this

Click for larger image

you would likely have to gear it down.
May 27 2013 7:28PM
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gotti
Posts: 4269 - Karma: 4,548
I have a way better idea what are you talking about your idea sucks. The key is in the assignment it says you can attach your quarter to a string. You suspend the string from the ceiling or something tall and you put the quarter on the end of the string. You have to make a pendulum so attach the quarter to one end using wax and have the candle melt the wax until the quarter falls and swings 6 feet. Boom, its way easier and takes only a string and the side of a desk or something.
May 27 2013 7:49PM
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icculus.
Posts: 749 - Karma: 3,963
what grade are you in? im doing thermodynamics right now but this seems a lot harder..
May 27 2013 7:56PM
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yuck
Posts: 8384 - Karma: 2,090
tie the coin to a rat, light the tea candle underneath the rats ass and let it run

would that count as potential energy?
May 27 2013 7:59PM
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chicken
Posts: 6843 - Karma: 2,122
I just built a protoype of what I drew. will let you know if it works
May 27 2013 8:02PM
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whoa-dere
Posts: 10596 - Karma: 7,100
the only allowed source of input energy are the candles. the rat would count as a different source.
May 27 2013 8:45PM
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chicken
Posts: 6843 - Karma: 2,122
alright so what I built doesn't work that well, but that's because I built it out of lego and aluminum foil. if you build this properly it will work well (and is really simple).

all you need is a gearbox, a light fan and a piece of thread. tie the thread to a spool on one end, tape it to the quarter. put the candles under the fan so the heat turns the fan and drives the spool through a gearbox.
May 27 2013 9:11PM
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gotti
Posts: 4269 - Karma: 4,548
stick the coin to the roof and melt the glue
May 27 2013 9:29PM
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chicken
Posts: 6843 - Karma: 2,122
*not allowed other sources of energy.
May 27 2013 9:58PM
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