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April, 2025

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Powder ski tail question

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aSkiingWarPig
Posts: 92 - Karma: 48
Hello,

It's that time again, time to renew my ski arsenal. I'm not here to ask what ski I should buy (yet), I'm here to ask what kind of tails I should be looking for in my new skis.

I'm around 6'3'' tall and 185 lbs, if that matters.

For the last three seasons I've been rocking the first rockered Line Sir Francis Bacons, the 2010/11 model. As far as I know, they're somewhat softer and wider than the current Bacons. The only thing I don't like about them performance-wise is that the tails sometimes wash out under me after I build up speed in bumpy powder due to me skiing too backseat. I also find myself leaning very much forward when riding switch, despite the good amount of rocker in the tails. Both of these problems are most likely caused by the recommended binding mounting point of -6cm if I recall correctly, as opposed to the -2cm of the new Bacons.

I wouldn't want to get a ski with non-rockered tails, since I have also been enjoying fooling around riding switch in powder. Would mounting the bindings more forward to the -2cm mark (and the slightly stiffer new Bacons, in case I end up with them again) affect my tails washing out much, or do I have to sacrifice some switch riding performance and playfulness to get the stability I need on high-speed landings in powder by getting more traditional tails?

And I do indeed realise that it's also a question of getting used to not riding backseat, which I have learned relatively well, but with multiple high-speed bumps/jumps in a row, I tend to automatically lean back more, leading to my tails washing out, causing me to find myself on my back.

Thanks
12 years ago
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ankhou
Posts: 505 - Karma: 238
You've basically answered your own question - you need to learn to pressure your tips more and stay out of the backseat. Any tail will wash out if your weight is too far back, but rockered tails will have a greater tendency towards this. A mount that's closer to centre will tend to wash out a little less, but instead you'll just lose control of the ski and it'll take you for a ride (e.g. long arcing turn to highside death). If you want the best of both worlds, learn to stay out of the backseat and having tail rocker won't be a problem.

What may make a bigger difference is a ski with a stiffer flex - you might notice this in the new Bacons (I'm not sure as I haven't skied them). This will reduce the amount you find yourself getting 'bucked' by bumps and make it easier to keep your weight in the correct position.
12 years ago
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aSkiingWarPig
Posts: 92 - Karma: 48
Yeah, I figured those are the factors causing my tails to wash out, but I have no experience of other similar skis, so I have no idea how much the mounting point and stiffness of the ski affect it, so I was hoping to get some answers like yours. Thanks for the quick reply.

More opinions on how much stiffness and/or mounting point affect the washing out are welcome.
12 years ago
1 0
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ankhou
Posts: 505 - Karma: 238
If you can, I'd highly recommend seeking out demo days and trying a whole bunch of different skis to figure out what kind of characteristics you like and how different types of ski affect your skiing. You could rent as well, but demo days are a lot cheaper! Get on a directional, stiff big-mountain ski if you can - it'll give you a good idea whether or not you're looking for a stiffer ski, as you'll probably either love it or hate it.
12 years ago
1 0
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aSkiingWarPig
Posts: 92 - Karma: 48
* I mean I have no idea how the stiffness and mounting point affect the washing out.

I am quite sure of the kind of ski I want, a playful, agile powder ski that I can also fool around with anywhere on the mountain doing little jibby stuff, so I doubt a very stiff Big Mountain ski would suit my needs. Especially since most of the powder here in Finland is small hills or trees. Unfortunately there aren't many demo days here either, and even if there were, I would have to travel quite far north to find powder and bumps to test the different types of ski tails in.


12 years ago
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LC.
Posts: 5952 - Karma: 2,423
A stiff tail will kick your ass if you ski backseat.
12 years ago
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25444 - Karma: 13,856
Going forward in the mount could make your backseatedness worse. -6cm is probbly effecting the way they ski switch, but overall, you may be able to solve all your issues by getting a stiffer ski, especially if you're already that far back and having stability issues.
12 years ago
1 0
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aSkiingWarPig
Posts: 92 - Karma: 48
Alright, thanks for the answers.

I guess I'll just get maybe a bit stiffer skis, like I was going to anyways, and on the steepest straightlining runs I'll just have to focus more on leaning forward, even though I might feel like I'm going to faceplant.
Also I read somewhere that improperly fitting boots may force you to backseat. I may have to look into that since my boots atm are horrible, my feet move around a ton.
12 years ago
1 0
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.Brink.
Posts: 1622 - Karma: 189
what size bacons are they? Even if they were the 184's from this year they would still probably be a little too small/soft for you at your height and weight if you ski aggressively. A stiffer and longer ski with a further forward mounting point should help you some but you also need to have proper form. I ski 194 surface new lifes mounted center and im 6'3" 200+ they feel rock solid underneath me and there is literally no tip dive.
12 years ago
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aSkiingWarPig
Posts: 92 - Karma: 48
The skis I'm thinking of getting are the next year's 184 or maybe even 190 Bacons.

And the washing out only happens like a couple times in a week of skiing on very high-speed powder runs with back to back bumps forcing me more and more backseat. I think it won't matter too much in my ski decision after all, I'll just try and learn to keep my balance in every situtation, and also get new boots that actually fit my feet well.
12 years ago
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50Kal
Posts: 2836 - Karma: 5,541
For a different ski choice look at the Kastle west xx110. Heres a good review blister did. Looks like what your looking for. Powder twin tip that's more aggressive.

http://blistergearreview.com/gear-reviews/2012-2013-kastle-west-xx110
12 years ago
1 0
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25444 - Karma: 13,856
What boots are you in anyways? When you lean forward, how much room behind your calf?
12 years ago
1 0
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aSkiingWarPig
Posts: 92 - Karma: 48
I have a few years old Dalbello Voodoos mostly because I still had some skinny park skis when I got them and they felt wide enough and comfortable. I can't measure the room behind my calf at the moment, but I'd say there is definitely too much room. My feet move around in the boot too much anyway, I can easily lift my heel even when buckled up.

I think I might be better off buying new boots instead of new skis, and just throwing new Guardians or Dukes on my old Bacons, since starting skinning is the main reason I started looking for a new setup.
12 years ago
1 0
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.Brink.
Posts: 1622 - Karma: 189
you need new boots, thats what is probably causing most of your issues, not the skis. If your boots don't fit properly you lose a lot of control and maneuverability. Replace your boots, then ski your bacons and see how they feel. it will make a huge difference to have properly fitted boots.
12 years ago
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aSkiingWarPig
Posts: 92 - Karma: 48
Thanks, that's what I figured too. That's going to be a whole another subject, though.

Thank you everyone for the answers.
12 years ago
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