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Wealth Inequality in the U.S.

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Amadeus.
Posts: 3050 - Karma: 382
This could be a repost but this actually blew my mind. I have never seen it laid out like this before.

Mar 4 2013 1:42PM
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leninlover
Posts: 560 - Karma: 148
1/3 of China's economy remains state owned, which means they have been able to push through the worlds economic crisis with more state intervention than the US. Nearly the entirety of their heavy industry is in the hands of the planned economy. The free market inevitably goes through cycles, which every economist in the entire wold knows, no matter their ideological bent.

Let me reiterate. If you are going to unintelligently prance around with your free market slogans, at least accept the fact that they have, throughout the history of their existence, been extremely prone to massive ups and downs. They have also plagued society with poverty, crime, and corruption.
Mar 4 2013 5:26PM
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Bakeshow
Posts: 585 - Karma: 197
Very interesting, definitely worth watching. My input would be that even this "vast inequality" is much less skewed than past societies (kings compared to peasants) so at least humanity is making some progress (despite that statistic about the increase in the income of the 1% over the last 40 or so years).
Also, I just think it's ridiculous how much professional athletes make, even compared to careers such as doctors. Doctors save peoples lives --> roughly $150,000. Pro athletes entertain people by playing games and make millions.
?
Mar 4 2013 5:33PM
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Technien
Posts: 10 - Karma: 10
The average min wage in china is alot less than what americans on welfare get. Way to use china as an example haha
Mar 4 2013 5:40PM
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Technien
Posts: 10 - Karma: 10
Also youre really biased- "poverty crime and corruption" ? Your talking about socialist economies
Mar 4 2013 5:43PM
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EmperorKuzco
Posts: 6660 - Karma: 254
Holy shit that was fucked
Mar 4 2013 5:45PM
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.jon
Posts: 2121 - Karma: 345
economies are finite. remember that, kids. because somebody else has money means it's being directly taken from you.

also, a 34k annual family income is the absolute middle class globally. certainly not the 1 percent or anything.
Mar 4 2013 5:46PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
What are you talking about?
Mar 4 2013 5:56PM
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leninlover
Posts: 560 - Karma: 148
My argument wasn't intended to address minimum wages. The person I quoted stated that the US economy is suffering because of government intervention into markets, while he used the Chinese economy as a free market example of success.. which would never have any ground because of the fact that the Chinese state still operates 1/3 of the economy. I don't believe I said China was in any way a socialist state, Im just saying that if you are trying to make an anti government intervention argument, than don't use China as your example.

In the mean time, if we want to discuss labor issues in China, why don't we focus on which sectors of the economy they are coming from. You can go ahead and take the next step of your argument if you please.
Mar 4 2013 5:56PM
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Technien
Posts: 10 - Karma: 10
Haha!
Mar 4 2013 5:58PM
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InFlames
Posts: 534 - Karma: -25
There's a housing bubble coming in China. Look up 'ghost cities'. State intervention is going to destroy their economy.
Mar 4 2013 6:01PM
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slugworth
Posts: 1247 - Karma: 772
I don't really think I'd call it progress, but a means for keeping people happily suppressed. Also, I completely agree with you that pro athletes make far too much money playing games. The media culture, including nearly everything on TV is a modern day version of Roman bread and games. The free market system is not the solution and is certainty not sustainable (just wait 150 years).
Mar 4 2013 6:01PM
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freestyler540
Posts: 13040 - Karma: 18,223
Thats worse that I though. Imagine if that 1 guy got assassinated?
Mar 4 2013 6:07PM
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ChillTeenDad420
Posts: 1858 - Karma: 5,512
sarcasm? so because i got a paycheck that money was directly taken from you?
Mar 4 2013 6:12PM
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_____alfredo____
Posts: 1123 - Karma: 2,503
well then it would go to his son or something
Mar 4 2013 6:16PM
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leninlover
Posts: 560 - Karma: 148
Housing bubble? You mean because of the Chinese state investment in infrastructure? Why don't you take a step back and find out where the need for this would have began. Labor surplus is what created the demand for the states investment in massive excess building of housing. They had far too many people migrating into the cities after they began reforming and opening their economy to the free market after Mao died. This is because they de-collectivized agriculture, which resulted in massive labor and grain surplus. Agriculture was unsustainably making less for it's output and in the mean time employing fewer and fewer people. As people migrated to the cities and have still been, there has naturally not been enough room. Its fairly clear if you do more than read a few shitty news articles that the state's building apartment buildings to facilitate migrants comes not from shitty planning, but from the problems of the free market reforms.
Mar 4 2013 6:17PM
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grown-ninja
Posts: 3031 - Karma: 175
you obvioulsy dont know much about economic/finance/ the structure of business.  Off the bat raising the min wage wont do anything.  it should have increased steadly with inflation inmy opinion but than again that hurts the business owner too.  Theres no easy solution, but overnight raising the minimum wage to 9$ wont do much at all.
Mar 4 2013 6:17PM
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.jon
Posts: 2121 - Karma: 345
much, much sarcasm. i say those two initial statements because they're taken to heart all too often.
Mar 4 2013 6:19PM
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leninlover
Posts: 560 - Karma: 148
Also thought I would mention that it isn't state investment that will kill their economy, it's the fact that their new free-er market economy was able to grow because of exports. Because of this, their economy's well being is much more heavily influenced by the global market. The fact that the US and Europe are failing means that they are no longer able to import at the rate they originally desired, meaning China's economy will naturally have fewer countries purchasing it's exports.
Mar 4 2013 6:20PM
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Technien
Posts: 10 - Karma: 10
China has huge problems facing it, and in no way are they a healthy example of anything
Mar 4 2013 6:42PM
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Technien
Posts: 10 - Karma: 10
Exactly. China is fucked. Use them as a failed example
Mar 4 2013 6:43PM
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Technien
Posts: 10 - Karma: 10
Hes a troll dont feed him
Mar 4 2013 6:44PM
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Technien
Posts: 10 - Karma: 10
Dude you are so full of shit its sickening. Chinas over developed infrastructure is a result of gov planning
Mar 4 2013 6:48PM
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.jon
Posts: 2121 - Karma: 345
uhhh... no. it's sarcasm, as i said.
Mar 4 2013 6:48PM
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Technien
Posts: 10 - Karma: 10
Some people actually believe that tho
Mar 4 2013 6:52PM
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Seany.n
Posts: 459 - Karma: 467
you do realize that that "1 guy" represents 3.2 Million people right..?
Mar 4 2013 7:13PM
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leninlover
Posts: 560 - Karma: 148
Yes it might be, but that government planning was a nearly legitimate response to major problems the "free market" reforms plagued China with after our beloved Mao passed away.
Mar 4 2013 8:28PM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
I can study and become a doctor and make $150,000 minimum. Absolutely. My chances of becoming a well paid professional athlete are ridiculously small and inherently include extremely risky fiscal career decisions. However, if I became a superstar football player and personally accounted for millions in jersey and ticket sales, you bet your ass I'd expect a comparable paycheck.

It's not fairness and rainbows. It's using your brain.
Mar 4 2013 8:55PM
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cowofawesome
Posts: 201 - Karma: 549
I really don't want to get into this on NS... but the guy in the video failed to state that the whole top 5% of income earners are paying 60% of the total income tax dollars paid in the United States, and the entire bottom 50% pays a whopping 2% of total income tax dollars. Enough with the "they're not doing their fair share" bullshit.
Mar 4 2013 8:59PM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
Just playing Devil's Advocate, but tax rates like that have been put in place because they make so much, not in spite of that.

Not picking a side, I'm honestly pretty unsure on this topic.
Mar 4 2013 9:05PM
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Seany.n
Posts: 459 - Karma: 467
not doubting you but is this actually verified information?
Mar 4 2013 9:08PM
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Anathema
Posts: 21048 - Karma: 5,061
and it's just going to keep getting more skewed until the people revolt and there's another civil war.

and it will happen sooner or later. it has to. no system can thrive on the exploitation of it's working class forever. especially not when the people start to realize they have no hope and are indeed being exploited.

lets not forget what happened to the roman empire..
Mar 4 2013 9:08PM
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Drail
Posts: 14011 - Karma: 10,001
I'm curious as to what you think 'the problem' is.

In all truthfulness, the system is working just as it should. Perhaps it's the system itself that is the problem, and if so, you can't change anything within the system as long as the system itself is still alive.

You want a solution? Start a civil war at a global scale to try and overthrow centralized government and abolish the monetary system.

But we both know that's not what you really want.
You want a solution to YOUR problems? The only one who can do that is you.
Mar 4 2013 9:10PM
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Seany.n
Posts: 459 - Karma: 467
you bring up a good point, i guess "problem" wasnt the right word to use. i meant that their isn't a solution in the video that explains how to balance out the wealth more evenly, if it can even be done in the first place. not saying that it necessarily should
Mar 4 2013 9:17PM
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Drail
Posts: 14011 - Karma: 10,001
Yeah, but the system wasn't created with balance in mind. It, within itself is both the pro and con. It's a system where anyone can become rich, but not everyone. As soon as "we" start to try and 'balance' the money flow between people we are entering a very different system, one that I don't want any part of.

True communism is a beautiful thing that I've seen work in small groups. As soon as you try and have communism at a national level with a centralized government controlling everything, well... it's not going to be pretty.
Mar 4 2013 9:25PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,500
I thought it was going to be more than that. the top 1% has billions with a B that more than most people in a whole town in upstate N.Y has combined.
Mar 4 2013 9:36PM
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Crestedbutte
Posts: 9 - Karma: 15
Who in america is exploited?
Mar 4 2013 9:39PM
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leninlover
Posts: 560 - Karma: 148
Heres you: Herp derp herpidy herp derp mindless ideological crap herp herp derp derp

Get a grip
Mar 4 2013 9:39PM
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cowofawesome
Posts: 201 - Karma: 549
Yes sir:
http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html
Mar 4 2013 9:40PM
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leninlover
Posts: 560 - Karma: 148
most likely you are.
Mar 4 2013 9:42PM
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Drail
Posts: 14011 - Karma: 10,001
sorry, you're going to have to speak up, I can't hear you over my not actually giving a fuck. Have fun playing whatever game you play in DC, I'll be playing in the mountains if you need me.
Mar 4 2013 9:45PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10622 - Karma: 7,397
what moral duty does the person that (i hoped he earned his money fairly) has to give away his own belongings?
Mar 4 2013 10:06PM
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Blake.P
Posts: 9894 - Karma: 3,585
while i can understand where they are coming from, this video is complete shit. the upper class have that money because they work their asses off for years, not just scraping by, but by working hard in school, being competitive in the job market, and working their way up until they are at the top,and by making smart financial and investment choices. the lower class have the same opportunities, just they are harder to come by. there is nothing stopping some kid in the lowest class from working his ass off throughout high school, getting a full ride scholarship to college, and working up through a job, and making smart financial decisions along the way

Mar 4 2013 10:17PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,500
Hahaha haha hahaha ha.
Mar 4 2013 10:37PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
Just the post I expect from a website full of skiers. No offense, but 95% of this site really has no idea what low income life is like.


Unfortunately theres very rarely a discussion of why the rich or rich or why the poor are poor (to be clear, there is no correct single answer to either of those, its a myriad of factors), but instead, its a video about the fact THAT income distribution is unequal, and then 5 pages of "rich people work hard, poor people dont take advantage" or the inverse. Neither is that simple, but its much easier to blame one side or the other.
Mar 4 2013 10:42PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10622 - Karma: 7,397
i fail to see why this bothers people, i mean no shit a doctor makes a lot more than a cashier.
Mar 4 2013 10:45PM
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Mr.Huck
Posts: 6096 - Karma: 14,893
Go for it. ... and companies will figure out ways to hire fewer people. Make it harder on businesses and business owners will either go out of business or figure out how to streamline.

I am starting a business this summer. Originally I was planning on having a staff of about 50 people. With the new mandates from Obamacare, I will be operating with less than 10 employees.

+ if you think that raising minimum wage is going to do anything to change wealth inequality, you're on crack. No one is going to become rich because they are getting paid $1 more for their minimum wage job.
Mar 4 2013 10:49PM
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Funnel
Posts: 7808 - Karma: 1,414
It's painfully apparent how many people have not taken an entry level economics class. Trust me, economics will change the way you look at why things are the way they are, and why things that look so great are actually so wrong.
Mar 4 2013 10:52PM
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e.wait
Posts: 869 - Karma: 1,954
lost
Mar 4 2013 10:52PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
Well sure, you aren't oversimplifying there or anything.
Mar 4 2013 10:53PM
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