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General Hunting Opinion

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Tinga
Posts: 11349 - Karma: 2,333
So the wolf hunt was a hotly debated topic in MN this year. I grew up in rural MN so I always thought hunting wasn't looked down upon but when I went to a discussion there seemed to be a lot of antihunting opposition. So I guess I just want to know from a large audience what the general opinion is of hunting.
Jan 29 2013 3:25PM
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proZach
Posts: 7163 - Karma: 917
there are 22 amino acids required by the body to synthesize proteins (among other things). we're able to create many of them ourselves. the other 9 need to be from our diet. red meat has all of these. many of them can be found in eggs and other non-plant food. yeah, it's possible to do it michael phelps, but I don't wanna eat tofu and lentils and shit. I like my lysine in the form of a steak. or at least an egg.
Jan 29 2013 6:44PM
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neutralzombie
Posts: 8629 - Karma: 606
my boyfriend's a hunter, and it was a bit difficult for me to support him but in the end i do, and i think as long as animals are hunted for food, and no just for sport then i agree. i think hunting wolves and other things is a little too fucked up for me. i agree to an extent about overpopulation, and i know he's tried to explain the whole schpiel they give you when you take your hunting course about environmental minimums and whatnot to keep everything in check, but at some point, i just think it's a crock of shit. i think there's just no whole truth to either side of the story. i also think wolves are demonized, just like sharks, and other animals, and it's pathetic. and shark hunting is fucking stupid. that is all.
Jan 29 2013 6:45PM
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corona
Posts: 12752 - Karma: 32,263
you have zero argument here. This is like arguing that Hitler was a good man because without him we'd be 10 years behind technologically.

The point is not that farmers will get less if they all start growing peas, the point is that growing green shit is much less harmful on the environment and overall world as an ecosystem than is raising animals for meat. If you want to look at it your way, then one could say if the world were vegetarians then there would be a large diversification in crops that are grown meaning there won't be any dilution of any one product and prices will stay very similar.


Also this wasn't supposed to be a meat vs veg argument, it was supposed to prove to you that there is actually a lot more logic to the arguments of vegetarians than you think. In fact, 90% of the arguments proposed by meat eaters as to why being a meat eater is a good thing are the arguments that don't actually have any logic to them.
Jan 29 2013 6:51PM
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iFlip
Posts: 4541 - Karma: 19,088
There was a thread not long ago that had a great deal of information on hunting, much of which I wrote. I will bump it. Definitely a worthwhile read.
Jan 29 2013 8:11PM
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Puns
Posts: 2052 - Karma: 429
growing vegetables instead of meat would lead to an economic collapse in the US
Jan 29 2013 9:34PM
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Vibe12
Posts: 50 - Karma: 11
If you ain't gonna eat it don't shoot it...that's my view
Jan 29 2013 9:37PM
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RRaDD
Posts: 128 - Karma: 139
I hunt a lot. Theres a big difference between hunters and the Redneck Assholes who get the image of hunting and fishing.
Jan 29 2013 9:50PM
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joshua
Posts: 5046 - Karma: 1,280
Why is that?
Jan 29 2013 10:14PM
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Static
Posts: 8491 - Karma: 4,059
copy and paste from the 'General Fapping Opinion" thread
Jan 29 2013 10:20PM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
I think I agree with the shoot it eat it idea.

I don't hunt, I don't really have a desire to, but I know a lot of people get their whole...inner peace type deal from that type of activity, so no need to take that away from them, as long as it's done legally and safely.
Jan 29 2013 11:15PM
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Tinga
Posts: 11349 - Karma: 2,333
well sometimes the biggest animals aren't necessarily the best breeders. in fishing there is often a "slot" where you can't take a fish in a certain range because those are the most fit fish that produce the best off spring.

Also a lot of you talk about controlling population is a plus of hunting but a lot of the precision population control is done by trapping.
Jan 30 2013 1:23AM
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cydwhit
Posts: 5065 - Karma: 42,823
Now THAT is where people get really tweaked, totally agree with you though...
Jan 30 2013 1:25AM
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Tinga
Posts: 11349 - Karma: 2,333
yeah I'm not exactly sure how I feel about trapping myself. I don;t think I know enough about technique though. There are other ways of trapping than just leg holds and the choking kind. those two seem to be pretty inhumane in my opinion though.

Anyone know how most traps work?
Jan 30 2013 1:31AM
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.Hugo.
Posts: 17360 - Karma: 28,469
The reasoning for hunting wolves to keep the population down is that their territory spans such a large area that they are starting to overlap causing them to move into more urban areas putting the lives of people, especially children, at risk. This overlap also casuses a lot more competition for food which in turn depletes the population of other animals including deer, grouse etc. Wildlife management is a huge deal and trust me, those guys know what they are doing
Jan 30 2013 1:31AM
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cydwhit
Posts: 5065 - Karma: 42,823
Guys I know use leg hold traps for wolves, not really 'humane' I guess, but I don't really have a problem with it as long as they check their lines regularly and are trapping something that needs to be controlled. Wolves aren't really humane when they kill stuff either. I don't really think that trapping can't be 'sport' like hunting but I think it has its place in how we control the ecosystem. Of course those who leave traps unattended for too long are simply being irresponsible stewards. Live traps are awesome though.
Jan 30 2013 1:39AM
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Puns
Posts: 2052 - Karma: 429
* Doesn't recognize the important fact that humans are conscious of their actions and therefore are moral agents.
Jan 30 2013 1:40AM
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Where-am-I
Posts: 1635 - Karma: 281
in the long run, i'm against it. i would like to see wolf/deer populations normalize, they got along fine before we fucked up the balance, maybe we can return to that balance. in the mean time, i can somewhat understand the need to control both wolf and deer populations, but think it should be done with the goal of returning to a balanced ecosystem. in areas where predador population have been eliminated orgreatly reduced (i think someone mention ohio earlier in the thread) i see how controlled hunting helps maintain a healthy population.

however, i dont understand how it completely necessary to keep these populations healthy to begin with. if the deer population where allowed to expand areas might be overgrazed, but ultimately wouldn't deer starve and at some point the cycle normalize? in the case of wolves in the west people say they would expand way to quickly and starve/look for other food sources. but what if they stopped hunting wolves and deer? would the populations stay in balance? if so then the reason to control wild animal populations isn't to keep those populations healthy, but to keep them hunt-able.

there are also aspects of hunting culture i cannot understand or sympathize with. like predator hunting with semi-auto rifles and gihli suits; that is just fucking stupid. its hunting not fucking warfare. If i ever went hunting id want a bow or a lever/bolt action rifle. and i'd do it to be outdoors and to be experiencing a human tradition. not to get some militaristic themed rush seeking, "lets kill things that want to eat us" bullshit, jesus that grinds my gears
Jan 30 2013 2:01AM
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applejuice.
Posts: 5506 - Karma: 1,512
I'm all for hunting but wolf hunting is pointless. Anyone who has done wolf studies can tell you that. The alpha recycles and the pack grows larger, or actually does more harm than good. Obviously my brief abstract doesn't provide scientific proof or evidence but it was a part of my field study I did this past summer. Huge debate.
Jan 30 2013 2:03AM
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Tinga
Posts: 11349 - Karma: 2,333
couple things.

there are other problems to over population than just over grazing. for example have lots of deer pushes them into urban areas where they can be a danger for drivers. also over grazing would affect more than just deer. it would affect any other animal that would eat the same thing a deer eats. also if the plants couldnt survive they would stop growing and then we would have erosion problems and a lot of other stuff.

for your last paragraph I don't think you are giving animals enough credit. sometimes they can smell you from a mile away and see the slightest movements and bolt. I don't think it would be wise hunting in that much camo and in most cases that is illegal since other hunters wouldn't be able to see you.

I don't especially like semi auto guns but if you shoot a deer and it doesn't drop right away another bullet in the chamber can make the difference between harvesting your deer and having it run away and slowly dying for no point.
Jan 30 2013 2:10AM
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Where-am-I
Posts: 1635 - Karma: 281
deer hunting i dont have any real beef with. i think its something people should be free to pursue. its mainly wolf hunting that bothers me, i would be interested to hear more from stillakilla about the field study she was a part of.

as for the last paragraph it was mostly based on this video, the heavy camo/semiauto/suppressor/and 'murica music just scream "Huge Twat" to me
Jan 30 2013 2:25AM
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Wis_Skier_23
Posts: 2263 - Karma: 245
There's more to hunting other than shooting the animal. It's about the overall great experience as well.
Jan 30 2013 3:09AM
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neutralzombie
Posts: 8629 - Karma: 606
Doubt it
Jan 30 2013 3:59PM
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corona
Posts: 12752 - Karma: 32,263
this is the largest pile of bullshit I've ever heard.
Jan 30 2013 4:21PM
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corona
Posts: 12752 - Karma: 32,263
by the way there are only 9000 wolves in the entirety of the United States. And they have only just been taken off the endangered species list.
Jan 30 2013 4:25PM
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MLB
Posts: 4462 - Karma: 298
Depends on the species of wolf. I feel that in some states wolfing depleated their numbers, but in the states that the natural wolf numbers are a problem I don't see why not.

I don't get why liberals are against hunting. There is nothing more organic then moose meat. I'm a liberal, I love to hunt.
Jan 30 2013 4:57PM
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whoa-dere
Posts: 10596 - Karma: 7,100
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vs.
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vs.
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i don't know man...
Jan 30 2013 4:57PM
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whoa-dere
Posts: 10596 - Karma: 7,100
As long as it doesn't mess up the ecosystem to the point where it's permanently changed i see no problems with it. we're the dominant species of the earth
Jan 30 2013 4:58PM
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Puns
Posts: 2052 - Karma: 429
It's pretty widely accepted that changing the ecosystem is okay. Or if it isn't we're doing it wrong. Dominant species is great but there still needs to be some democracy of enjoyment of the unaffected world
Jan 30 2013 5:02PM
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corona
Posts: 12752 - Karma: 32,263
I'd think you being a hunter you'd know that the is only 1 species of wolf, the Grey Wolf.

There is something called a Red Wolf, but it's only a sub-species of the Grey Wolf. And I don't even think there are more than 100 of them left in the wild.
Jan 30 2013 5:07PM
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.Hugo.
Posts: 17360 - Karma: 28,469
How so?
Jan 30 2013 5:26PM
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Abu_Hajaar
Posts: 2747 - Karma: 3,890
Trophy hunting is bullshit. The only reason someone can justify killing a wolf or a bear is their life or another's is in danger.
Jan 30 2013 6:15PM
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Abu_Hajaar
Posts: 2747 - Karma: 3,890
No, growing too much of anything will. There's a balance, you can't just say meat is bad for the world. If someone wants to be vegan thats great, but they cannot justify telling me I'm doing wrong by eating meat.
Jan 30 2013 6:20PM
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Puns
Posts: 2052 - Karma: 429
There is a balance, but you can phase stuff out. Not eating meat isn't going to make every do that, but as more people do that, positive change is created. If someone wants to eat meat, great, but they cannot justify telling me that it is good for the world. How do you think we got to this balance? Supply demand, and that has fluctuated and will continue to change forever.
Jan 30 2013 6:36PM
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no_steeze
Posts: 23992 - Karma: 4,270
hunters help control animal populations and maintain proper carrying capacities for species that are lacking in predators
Jan 30 2013 6:41PM
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Darth.Maul
Posts: 2472 - Karma: 652
Hey hey now. You CAN eat bear and I DID eat my bear. Bear steaks aren't very good but it wasn't bad for stew meat.

Now hes my fluffy rug that I am going to get laid on one day.
Jan 30 2013 6:52PM
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Tinga
Posts: 11349 - Karma: 2,333
still calling them alphas?
Jan 30 2013 10:44PM
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chicken
Posts: 6843 - Karma: 2,122
if the bear has been eating berrys it's ok at best. If the bear has been eating a lot of meat it's fucking nasty. salmon eating bears basically only make dog food.
Jan 31 2013 1:33AM
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gnarschralped
Posts: 178 - Karma: 123
meat farming will become a needless extinct industry in a few years when in vitro meat becomes viable
Jan 31 2013 2:08AM
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Darth.Maul
Posts: 2472 - Karma: 652
It was a central Utah black bear so no salmon over here. It didn't taste too bad. Pretty gamey but that was expceted and a little stringy in the big muscles. He was mostly ground up into stew meat and mixed in with whatever we cooked for the next couple months. We only took about 50 lbs of meat. The rest of the body was wanted by the University of Utah for scientific research so we gave them the carcass and kept the skull, hide, and meat.

Overall the bear was used for food, decoration, warmth (the best place to study is on my bear rug in my underwear) and scientific research. Put to good use i'd say.
Jan 31 2013 2:13AM
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Soja.
Posts: 216 - Karma: 144
i would say don't hunt unless you need it to survive, populations will run their course with nature, its not humans responsibility to control it, nature will run its course and whatever species go extinct were meant to by natural selection, let the earth do its thing
Jan 31 2013 3:45AM
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Dhane
Posts: 3866 - Karma: 1,722
Seen this posted several times, so I not really picking on you, I just need a quote haha. But I hate when people say let nature take its course, mother nature is a smart bitch, she can figure it out. Not. The reason these populations are so out of wack is because we as humans don't sit still. Maybe if everyone was lkike , I'm good with what I have, let's just keep things the way they are, then natural populations could return. But we don't. Drive two miles down any street, shit is being built and people are busy! Regardless of one house, or one development, some animals habitat has been compromised. What I think of firsthand is the deer population here in nj. I live wayyyyy up north in nj, I grew up on a farm, etc, and since we gave started to develop up here populations have been getting moved around. Deer are everywhere. You drive through some developments down south and see them in peoples lawns like dogs haha. That's not natural, and what predator is going to bring that population down to normal? I think by hunting we are taking responsibility for what we have done, its good. We could just continue to nail them in our cars, certainly enough of that, but really, its good to hunt and gives people pleasure. I. All for it
Jan 31 2013 8:18AM
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HWW
Posts: 3084 - Karma: 3,436
if you're going to eat it then it's fine by me
Jan 31 2013 8:23AM
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MLB
Posts: 4462 - Karma: 298
Yeah,but there are subspecies that are indiginous to their area (sorry should of been more specific, skiing website so i thought it was a minor detail) It's rare you will see rogue wolfs going out of their territory to hunt or track, but it does happen.

You had massif wolf hunts back in the day to protect cattle, and their pastures. Now what you get is these cattle ranchers who believe they own all this land that wild game used to live on to feed the native wolf species ( aka subspecies ). But over time they would just hunt all that game out. Now you have an even bigger problem, wolfs with no food for the pack, and tons of harmless cows running around. Thus creates pissed off ranchers thinking they can do anything they want, and it woun't affect the ecosystem. Out of that you get modern wolfing.

So now you have government agencies trying to re-introduce wolfs back into protected ecosystems that they have been hunted out of....... this in turn freaks the hunters the fuck out since all they know is modern wolfing. They are just scared that a rogue wolf will come out of that habitat and rip their hurds to bits...... which doesn't really happen if hunting laws/tagging system is followed.

I don't mind trapping, and most modern traps will kill instantly..... faster then a rifle. It's super old, and not too many guys do it anymore. I know a few guys who have trap lines out, get tons of pelts, and meat..... but they mostly do it for cash on the side and fun. So much work setting up trap lines...... I just don't see where the fun is in it. If the end of the world did happen that is definately how I would replace my grocery store.
Jan 31 2013 9:06AM
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wisconsinsteeze
Posts: 1170 - Karma: 749
I'm all for it. I grew up in a family that hunts though.
There aren't many things that i voice my opinion on, but i will on hunting. I don't have a problem with people who are anti-hunting that don't eat meat... i can't stand those who don't support hunting, but will still eat a big mac.

i would much rather be a wild animal, with keen senses, living with the slight possibility of getting shot by a hunter than a cow being raised to be slaughtered, being force fed corn even though a cows diet shouldn't include corn at all.

As far as the wolf hunt, they just opened it in wisconsin as well and i'm for it.
A wolf was hit by a car in madison, wisconsin probably 5 years ago, in a residential neighborhood not more than 400 yards from a middle school.
Jan 31 2013 3:16PM
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Puns
Posts: 2052 - Karma: 429
Yeah but one wolf known to have existed doesn't mean they need controlling. Many circumstances can exist where wolves will not be dangerous to people, even if they do cross paths once and a while. If we killed every wolf that has ever been within 400 metres of a school, there would be no wolves, and we'd be fucked, like Europe.
Jan 31 2013 3:33PM
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corona
Posts: 12752 - Karma: 32,263
does it not scare you more that a living animal was hit and killed by a car only 400 yards from a middle school?
Jan 31 2013 5:25PM
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JAHpow
Posts: 7282 - Karma: 17,166
I'm a big hunter and will always support it. I don't get why people are against hunting, every living thing hunts to eat, why shouldn't we? Also I agree with wisconsinsteeze that hunting is more humane than raising cattle to just be sent to the slaughter house.
Jan 31 2013 5:34PM
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Static
Posts: 8491 - Karma: 4,059
I'm told wolf is delicious
Jan 31 2013 5:39PM
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Dhane
Posts: 3866 - Karma: 1,722
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Jan 31 2013 5:43PM
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Supergyro
Posts: 797 - Karma: 36
I agree. I deer hunt, coyote hunt, pheasant hunt, and shoot prairie dogs and all of those except the pheasants are overpopulated in my state except pheasants. And I didn't get a pheasant this year.

I do get sick of over sensitive people who don't see the effect of over population and want all hunting to be gone. They haven't seen family dogs eaten by coyotes because there are too many got the habitat to support. Or literally 500 deer dead in a field surrounding a small patch of corn because of disease
Jan 31 2013 5:44PM
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