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Right to bear arms?

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Anathema
Posts: 21048 - Karma: 5,061
remember, when this amendment was written, everybody had a single shot, 6 foot long rifle that took a minute to reload.

that amendment would never be re-written today with the guns we have now.

it's a stupid law, and nobody should have guns but soldiers and officers of the law.

end of story.
Dec 14 2012 4:29PM
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TOAST.
Posts: 7271 - Karma: 33,324
eh I think stricter rules need to be applied to semi automatic rifles. Some sort of classes or something, just to make them a little bit harder to obtain because I really don't see the need for them. Especially since you can buy things to turn some of them into full auto, even though thats illegal.
Dec 20 2012 11:19PM
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Kooky_Lukey
Posts: 1002 - Karma: 1,966
Ireland has some of the strictest gun laws around and guess what, the IRA still gets more guns than they know what to do with.  The IRA has also not been stopped by the government since the 90's so the whole normal people cant stop a government is complete shit
Dec 21 2012 12:38AM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,500
Ireland does not equal the USA millatary.
Dec 21 2012 1:17AM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
the IRA barely exists anymore. They're more political than anything. And while I sympathize with their cause (and have a few personal connections to them) they were absolutely incompetent as far as being a rebel group goes.

They didn't stop the government. Northern Ireland is still a British territory. They lost the support of their own people.


Americans have the whole rebellion = we need guns concept in mind because that is how the country was started. But at the time a military rifle was the same as a hunting rifle, and the standard military tactic was to stand in rows and get shot.

Unless more than 1 branch sided with them, an American rebel group could never overcome the military. You can have 30,000 people with their rifles and oops...less than half of a squadron of B-52s just destroyed your entire rebellion from 34,000 feet. And the survivors are now being overrun by 10 tanks.
Dec 21 2012 1:46AM
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Hoppy
Posts: 685 - Karma: 95
Talking modern IRA, i wouldn't call them that incompetent. Their active service units bombed the shit out of us in the 80/90s, including the hotel containing the serving political party, even fired an RPG at the MI5 building in London.

Agree about loosing the support though, especially after Omagh.
Dec 22 2012 10:25AM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
knowledge. acquire it. before talking horseshit. its worth it.

IRA was never a real threat to the government. it didnt stop the government in any way. all it did were punctual guerilla/terror attacks, something which can happen everywhere and with any laws (this happened also in nazi germany).

futhermore, the IRA is now pretty much defunct in a "military" meaning.




this argument is really really bad.

Dec 22 2012 1:14PM
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BravoWhiskey5280
Posts: 4020 - Karma: 520
One of the main reasons the founding fathers adopted the second amendment was so the citizens of this country could protect themselves if the government were to turn into a tyranny. So the question that arises from this is what if our government restricts this amendment and then later on in then future turns into a tyrannical government? The citizens would thus be at the governments mercy because they would not be able to properly revolt because of a measure adopted in the past that restricted our ability to revolt/over throw the tyranny.
Dec 22 2012 1:23PM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
us navy, army, air force and the fucking coast guard VS. militarily untrained and unorganized mob



50 bucks right here say that latter will get their asses handed to them.
Dec 22 2012 1:33PM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
Yea, you're right, they weren't that bad.

But still, for every successful bombing there were probably 4 failed attempts. The RPG against the MI5 building is somewhat funny because....what were they trying to accomplish? It's not a particularly difficult thing to do either, it's not secluded or hidden.

The omagh bombing is also the reason for what I find to be one of the creepiest photos. The one of the guy with the kid with the bomb car right behind them.
Dec 22 2012 1:40PM
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BravoWhiskey5280
Posts: 4020 - Karma: 520
Okay, but what if a military coup d'etat were not an option? And even if it were, why would you want to sit on your ass and be a bystander in a revolution? That just shows me that you don't care about your own personal liberties enough to fight for them in a time where they are being jeopardized. I for one would like to have a gun in my possession just in case. Its comforting to know that I would have a strong tool to use when it comes to my personal defense.
Dec 22 2012 1:53PM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
i am half german half austrian and personally dont like people who never were in these shoes and claim they "will" stand up against a corrupt regime.

my grandgrandfather was pulled out of the living room and thrown into jail/concentration camp, infront of my grandfather and his remaining family for not carrying out the hitler salute hours before. he was released soon after, but just because he knew some people.

i know that i am not a hero. and i wouldnt risk the lives of my kids and family. maybe leave the country, but not sacrifice myself in a war i cannot win.

its easy being a tough guy or rebel these days. luckily noone of us will have to find out what it really means.



this is not directed at you especially, just a general observation in this discussion.
Dec 22 2012 2:17PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,500
That dosen't sound like a very liberal thing to say.
Dec 22 2012 2:36PM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
haha, now i know laissezfaires new name. kind of obvious though, hate myself for not recognizing it
Dec 22 2012 2:54PM
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BravoWhiskey5280
Posts: 4020 - Karma: 520
I know its not directed at me so its all good. I just think that the second amendment is incredibly important in the US because it could easily not be a country today without it. The founding fathers, or the "tough guys/rebels" you speak of, obviously recognized that the right to bear arms was one of the main factors as to why they succeeded in parting ways with England. i.e. which is why they put it in the Bill of Rights. So I feel like we'd be spitting on the graves of our founding fathers if we didn't take advantage of the second amendment. That is of course if a situation were to arise that was somewhat similar to the one they went through back in the 18th century.
Dec 22 2012 3:02PM
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The_Real_EWilly
Posts: 395 - Karma: 1,321
first thoses fucking retards that do shit like that should be locked up way be for shit like that happens

second fuck all you ingornat people that say say we shoudnt have guns if and if you like not having rights move to fuck russia or china

Third i love the second amdment and love America and love my rights and freedoms
Dec 22 2012 3:21PM
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InFlames
Posts: 534 - Karma: -25
It's funny how dumb you are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism
Dec 22 2012 4:09PM
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BravoWhiskey5280
Posts: 4020 - Karma: 520
Click for larger image
Dec 22 2012 4:11PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,500
way to understand the joke dumb fuck.
Dec 22 2012 4:33PM
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cwphoto
Posts: 2332 - Karma: 780
herp derp dude
Dec 22 2012 4:41PM
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jet_
Posts: 89 - Karma: 131
instead of arguing about the various definitions of 'liberal,' how about you guys just let the thread die?

seriously. I posted here one time, over ten pages ago, i never want to see this in "New Threads" ever again.
Dec 22 2012 4:45PM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
ok
Dec 22 2012 5:04PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,500
because we're not that kids a dumb ass.
Dec 22 2012 5:55PM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 265
damn. thats spot on
Dec 23 2012 12:08AM
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Obi-Wan-Jenobi
Posts: 951 - Karma: 119
Agreed
Dec 23 2012 12:53AM
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Anathema
Posts: 21048 - Karma: 5,061
you cant hold a dead person accountable for anything. there has to be more of a deterrent than simply saying "if you do something bad you're going to be punished" because people just go on killing sprees and painlessly and quickly take their own lives afterward.

what we're doing right now to prevent that isn't enough. what would your suggestion be?
Dec 23 2012 3:04AM
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ILLinoisance
Posts: 3527 - Karma: 5,398
Should we outlaw automobiles too? Think about it, they can be just as deadly as guns when used as a weapon....

Just because a tiny fraction of a percent of people abuse registered weapons does not mean we should take the right away from everyone else who abides by the law.

If someone really has the ambition to kill a bunch of people, they'll find a way to do it, regardless of what they use to do it is legal or not.

It's the sad truth. We need to concentrate our efforts into creating a society that does not alienate these individuals and provides mental help for them instead.
Dec 23 2012 3:15AM
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Anathema
Posts: 21048 - Karma: 5,061
a day care full of 4 year olds.

one picks up a bat and starts beating another kid with it for amusement.

what do you do, take the kid out and leave the bat? i guess he was just a bad kid, right? no reason to take the bat away. lots of other kids use it for fun, roll it around and whack tennis balls with it.

a couple weeks later, another kid uses that bat to beat someone else.

how many times do you have to punish the kids using the bat before you just fucking take the bat away and say "nobody gets it now since you dorks clearly don't know how to fucking use it".


1 incident, no big deal. 2? well, still no sweat. but how many is it going to take before things change?
Dec 23 2012 3:35AM
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ILLinoisance
Posts: 3527 - Karma: 5,398
One guy goes out to the bar, gets drunk, drives his car in the opposing lane of traffic, kills a family of 6. Next day, same thing happens in another state. Should we outlaw driving vehicles because some people abuse it?

You're comparing under-developed children to full-grown adults. There's a reason children aren't allowed to legally own guns....
Dec 23 2012 3:42AM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,500
This car argument has been debated On about five other pages in this thread.
Dec 23 2012 3:43AM
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ILLinoisance
Posts: 3527 - Karma: 5,398
And also, yes, as the day care supervisor you should have the power to take the bat away. But, it should not be made it illegal for children to carry baseball bats...
Dec 23 2012 3:44AM
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Anathema
Posts: 21048 - Karma: 5,061
point is, a few school shootings probably doesnt seem like a lot for the thousands and thousands who hit the gun range or use them for protection, bla bla blaa. but how many people have to die before society says "alright, we clearly dont know how to use them properly. they need to be taken away until people collectively smarten the fuck up".

or at the bare minimum, just say "ok, if you want your fucking protection or your fun at the target range, you can have a single shot weapon that takes a minute to reload." that would do away with these types of crimes because after you got one shot off, you'd be toast. aint nobody going on a killing spree with 1 bullet.

being able to unload hundreds of rounds into dozens of victims before anybody can fucking blink is simply ridiculous, and you cannot rationalize that such a weapon is required and used for "good".
Dec 23 2012 3:44AM
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ILLinoisance
Posts: 3527 - Karma: 5,398
My bad, I did not take the time to read the first 5 pages.
Dec 23 2012 3:46AM
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Anathema
Posts: 21048 - Karma: 5,061
thats the whole basis for the argument. the 2nd amendment was written when firearms were simple, inaccurate, couldnt be concealed, and straight up couldnt be used for mass violence and crime. guns have since evolved, and so too should the laws that bind them.
Dec 23 2012 3:47AM
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roddy116
Posts: 10622 - Karma: 7,396
^ A. your canadian so why does this concern you?
B. It doesnt matter if guns are better now, just because some people fuck up does not mean i should have to suffer the consequences.
Dec 23 2012 9:48AM
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Kooky_Lukey
Posts: 1002 - Karma: 1,966
Alright dickhead. first i did a report on the IRA in college so i do have some knowledge on the subject so suck a dick.

my main argument that even with strict gun laws the people that will do bad things with them will still get them no matter what i.e. the IRA.  Is the IRA barely still there? yes they are but they still exist regardless and they may have not overthrown the government they caused a mess.  but you cant even tell me that if we had stricter gun laws here then the mobs and gangs would have no more illegal weapons.  wake up and smell the roses.
Dec 23 2012 11:35AM
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Obi-Wan-Jenobi
Posts: 951 - Karma: 119
They main point from the picture is that people need to be more accountable. In Canada especially there are cases where buddy rapes 3 kids gets out on bail because he was mentally unstable at the time. Or there was some doctor who killed both his children didnt serve any time because he was "mentally unstable". BS I dont care what mental state your in you either go to jail or go to a jail/institute. The point is people need to own up to there shtick. And when they kill themselves well i dont I know what the answer is to that.
Dec 23 2012 12:03PM
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joshua
Posts: 5046 - Karma: 1,280
I'm sorry, I didn't realize deaths in a country other than my own shouldn't concern me.

Dec 23 2012 12:14PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10622 - Karma: 7,396
should america's gun control concern you? if you think so then i guess canadians are stupid
Dec 23 2012 12:34PM
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TOAST.
Posts: 7271 - Karma: 33,324
I think it should be harder to buy a gun. For every gun you should be required to take a safety class in my opinion. For semi automatic of any sort you should need a second class.
Dec 23 2012 12:37PM
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Charlie_Kelly
Posts: 11953 - Karma: 12,297
Oh it can concern you, but you really have no place to offer your opinions on gun control in a country you don't even live in.
Dec 23 2012 12:43PM
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accualyisdolan
Posts: 3295 - Karma: -192
The is gov is on a path of debt growth that will mean future gov repossession of private property. Guns amaretto somewhat needed to deter the gov from doing that
Dec 23 2012 12:45PM
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Barefootin_Fiend
Posts: 7618 - Karma: 4,727
While I'm all for safety courses, it should all be one course. Almost every damn weapon out there these days is semi auto.
Dec 23 2012 12:47PM
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Sparta
Posts: 226 - Karma: 313
seems to work well for Japan where owning a gun is near impossible. They have no guns and therefore about 2 gun related deaths per year.
Dec 23 2012 12:50PM
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joshua
Posts: 5046 - Karma: 1,280
I don't care if this happens across some border, I can still have an opinion. Besides, living so close to the US, I often go down there skiing, so yes, it does concern
Dec 23 2012 12:56PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,141
This is hilarious. The government controls a military that could level your house from several miles away via a remote drone controlled by some dude with a joystick, and you think your AR15 is going to effectively prevent them from seizing your shit if they want to?
Dec 23 2012 12:58PM
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Charlie_Kelly
Posts: 11953 - Karma: 12,297
Really? Because I've found that it's more like 11-30 per year and thats homicide alone.

Source:http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/japan
Dec 23 2012 1:00PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
if anything, being an outside makes his views seem much more impartial and legitimate than any americans shouting about rights and founding fathers and rednecks and other things that clearly show their huge bias.
Dec 23 2012 1:03PM
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lofth
Posts: 159 - Karma: 27
everyone should buy paintball guns instead. only solution there is.
Dec 23 2012 1:05PM
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VT_FLO
Posts: 3806 - Karma: 147
No it just shows that outsiders are jealous of our freedom, liberty and 'murican way!
Dec 23 2012 1:10PM
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joshua
Posts: 5046 - Karma: 1,280
I really hope you are trolling.
Dec 23 2012 1:17PM
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