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Racing in freestyle boots.

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smokeyjack2000
Posts: 154 - Karma: 60
Now I know there is no such thing as a park boot and yada yada yada but I was wondering if anyone had tried driving a GS or Slalom ski with an Ace of Spades boot or an SPK pro or one of the Full Tilt stable that isnt super stiff?

Reason I ask is that I have been asked to join a race squad for a months training and competition and I need to work out whether to spend the ££££ on stiffer boots or not.

My gut feeling says try it and see as the AoS isnt that flexible and I haven't raced in years. However the upright canting might be too backseat to drive a stiff ski.
Sep 27 2012 9:23AM
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Session
Posts: 5318 - Karma: 21,360
Nope, never been done before

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Sep 27 2012 10:09AM
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Skiingsnow
Posts: 1567 - Karma: 797
you can, its just not as rewarding, you'll end up with your ankles massively over flexed and wont be able to handle the pressure as well, i went from a dalbello krypton rampage to a lange rs 140 and its made a huge difference to both my piste skills and off piste, probly wont go back to a 3 buckle for a long time,
Sep 27 2012 10:19AM
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Kreech
Posts: 4178 - Karma: 3,024
^Well full tilts are just a rebranded raichle flexon with a different liner, and the flexon was originally a race boot. I can't speak for the ace of spades because I've personally never skied them.
Sep 27 2012 10:21AM
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Dr0ck
Posts: 69 - Karma: 13
I am Interested in this too, or how is freesking in race boots? I was thinking that freeride boots would be able to handle racing (on a high school team it's not like I'm super competitive) and obviously freeskiing.
any thoughts/experience?
Sep 27 2012 11:04AM
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Pipe_Munky
Posts: 10887 - Karma: 2,165
while this is true, you can increase the forward lean in the Full Tilt classic shell to better position yourself to drive a race ski
Sep 27 2012 11:15AM
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k2andcannoli
Posts: 644 - Karma: -36
im our resorts nastar pacesetter and a race coach... i ski on ft for a few years now, althoyg
Sep 27 2012 11:21AM
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k2andcannoli
Posts: 644 - Karma: -36
damn...i use the 10 flex, they work fine. im getting the x-max 120 this year. but its the skier not the boots bra
Sep 27 2012 11:23AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
Depends on your level of racing... FIS race skis require not only an FIS level pilot but a boot that can handle the torsional and lateral loads needed for that type of skiing. Most modern (and classical) freestyle boots do not have the wall thickness required for those kind of loads.

But if you are racing at the high school level and not 100% focused on racing, then you will probably be fine providing the boot is a good fit and already stiff enough for you.
Sep 27 2012 11:27AM
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smokeyjack2000
Posts: 154 - Karma: 60
In my case my boots seem a pretty good fit especially as I have some zipfit liners in them however in general I reckon you can get away with a less close fitting boot for freestyle than for gates and the canting will still be an issue. Im not gonna be racing at FIS level unless I find that I have way better skills there than I previously thought.
Sep 27 2012 11:56AM
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LC.
Posts: 5952 - Karma: 2,423
Man up, sell your park boots, buy race boots and use those everywhere.
Sep 27 2012 12:29PM
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.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7408 - Karma: 11,040
This. You dont want a 191 piloted by a boot that cant handle the ski. Its scary even when you have the correct gear and something goes wrong.

For everyone saying Raichle boots were used for racing are correct, but at the same time incorrect. They were primarily DH boots due to their inability to provide enough lateral flex in the ankles to turn a GS or SL ski.
Sep 27 2012 1:44PM
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Caucasian_Asian
Posts: 2447 - Karma: 1,665
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Unpossible.
Sep 27 2012 3:27PM
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Dr.Dickless
Posts: 2620 - Karma: 1,392
which rampages? i had the 60-80 flex and it sucked but my friend had the 90-120 with the kits in and he loved it
Sep 27 2012 4:46PM
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snakerton
Posts: 2434 - Karma: 1,977
lange rx are a good performance fitting boot but not super still. but make sure they fit you
Sep 27 2012 5:16PM
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Kreech
Posts: 4178 - Karma: 3,024
@Caucasian_Asian is that Seth Morrison?
Sep 27 2012 5:45PM
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AGOF
Posts: 2038 - Karma: 3,602
while i would agree with this about skis, im gonna say boots make a huge difference
Sep 27 2012 10:36PM
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k2andcannoli
Posts: 644 - Karma: -36
but you put bode in a spk or some other upright pos. you would never know because its not the boots bra....
Sep 28 2012 7:23AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
For sure Bode (or any other WC champion) would totally slay it in an SPK but he would nonetheless get smoked by other WC champions who wore real race boots.

Boot selection matters so much to these racers that Marcel Hirscher (WC overall winner) for example has close to 20 different pairs of boots each made up of different hardnesses. These hardness changes are totally imperceptible to you or I but for this level of athlete who can feel the slightest difference in plastic density it can make for a tenth or hundredth of a second. He also claims he can feel a difference between different colors of the same boot.

Point is, sure racers could go fast with a freestyle boot, but if they don't have the right gear then they won't go faster their competition.
Sep 28 2012 7:45AM
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Skiingsnow
Posts: 1567 - Karma: 797
race boots really are not that horrible, provided they fit you, the only complaint i have with mine is that sometimes landing switch hurts a bit, but the performance factor is so fucking good i will have trouble going back into a normal boot, even cliffs and stuff i find easier, its nice knowing when i jump off something my knees wont touch the tips of my skis
Sep 28 2012 8:42AM
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k2andcannoli
Posts: 644 - Karma: -36

Who cares about have 20 different race boots...youve missed the point buddy.

Sep 28 2012 9:31AM
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Caucasian_Asian
Posts: 2447 - Karma: 1,665
It is.  Good eye.
Sep 28 2012 10:01AM
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Skiingsnow
Posts: 1567 - Karma: 797
he's just point out that good boots actually matter
Sep 28 2012 10:31AM
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k2andcannoli
Posts: 644 - Karma: -36
but my point is you can drive any ski in any good fitting boot... it doesnt need to be a 140 flex like your boots.
Sep 28 2012 10:39AM
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.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7408 - Karma: 11,040
You can, but it may not be fun or easy. and to say Bode can slay in an SPK with a 90 or 100 flex is kinda true, but he would fold that boot so fast trying to push the ski
Sep 28 2012 10:43AM
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k2andcannoli
Posts: 644 - Karma: -36
of course he would...thats not a bad thing
Sep 28 2012 10:51AM
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jon@wh2o
Posts: 314 - Karma: 158
Totally agree with this. I went from dalbello ?krypton? To a doberman boot, and it's amazing. I would definitely recommend the "race" or stiff boot if you only ski some park, still works. And I'm sure you can take it the other way as well with the softboot racing
Sep 28 2012 10:55AM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7099 - Karma: 17,043

of course its a bad thing.

If he was coming into say coaches corner on whistler at 130kmh knowing he could not rely on his boot to keep him upright, how do you think he would ski. He would not commit to the turn, may not be able to drive the edge and consquently is more lickly to crash.

I have raced in SPK's and while it was ok for me, I have also used salomon Lab boots and even for me the differnce was huge. Now I barly ever race and if I could tell a huge differnce how do you think it will be for WC guys looking for potenitally thousands of a second.

Sep 28 2012 1:39PM
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k2andcannoli
Posts: 644 - Karma: -36
Once again...this mf'er is never gonna be doing 130 km/h...he doesnt need race boots. You'll be fine OP, dont listen to these old men.
Sep 28 2012 1:43PM
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k2andcannoli
Posts: 644 - Karma: -36
It must be a canadian thing...you know, being retarded.
Sep 28 2012 1:46PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7099 - Karma: 17,043

I would not know im not canadian haha.

I know your just trying to troll people here, or at least I hope its that. If you really do work in a shop its people like you who ruin peoples enjoyment of skiing

Sep 28 2012 1:58PM
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Caucasian_Asian
Posts: 2447 - Karma: 1,665
Bode also qualified for the US National Team on a pair of K2 Fours.

He's not your typical ski racer.
Sep 28 2012 2:17PM
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doitbig
Posts: 4818 - Karma: 315
That's like a racer asking if he can ski park in race boots.

Will it work? Of course. Is it ideal? Nope.

I ski my beer league races in FT's and do just fine, but obviously a more supportive/stiffer boot would make a difference in performance and potentially my times. If it wasn't just for the enjoyment of beating old men switch I would spring for a race specific boot.

That's like a racer asking if he can ski park in race boots.
Sep 28 2012 2:30PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
while I agree with you that the OP might not need our Redster WC 170, you're pretty wrong to say that any boot can drive any ski. You can click an SPK into a 195cm FIS GS board and slide it down the hill, but to say that you can actually ski that ski the way it's supposed to be skied is far fetched.
Sep 28 2012 2:44PM
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k2andcannoli
Posts: 644 - Karma: -36

Hahaha...sure ya can

Sep 28 2012 2:55PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
Sure, you can but it would suck. It's like putting the steering column from a old Buick into a Ferrari (if it would fit)- you would never be able to drive Ferrari at its full potential with super loose steering. Trying to ski a real race ski with a wobbly boot will be problematic over 50km.
Sep 28 2012 2:59PM
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Noha
Posts: 1281 - Karma: 2,684
full tilt originated as a race boot

Sep 28 2012 3:00PM
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k2andcannoli
Posts: 644 - Karma: -36

OP you'll be fine in the AoS...its pretty stiff for a freestyle boot.

Sep 28 2012 3:06PM
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Noha
Posts: 1281 - Karma: 2,684
OP... really?
Sep 28 2012 4:00PM
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.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7408 - Karma: 11,040
Thats because they were shaped skis and everyone else was on straight skis.
Sep 28 2012 6:33PM
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.jon
Posts: 2121 - Karma: 345
oh my god. i want to believe this haha. let's break out the blindfolds and send 'em barreling down the mountain at 100km/h to find out!

back on the main topic... i do think a boot should at least match a ski's power demanded. my dalbello krypton rampages were too soft of a boot for my line motherships. sure, they worked, but it sucked setting into a turn and feeling the boot's tongue fold in half. their lateral stiffness wasn't there, either.

i upgraded to dalbello's scorpion sf 130, a race-inspired freeride boot, and can finally feel my boot willing to drive the ski. they don't have the same progressive flex as the krypton series, but rather a much more aggressive activation every time you set forward into the tongue. me gusta.
Sep 28 2012 7:09PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
So he claims... which when you think about it, it isn't that far fetched. For example, Polyurethane (the type of plastic in most every boot over $400) has great characteristics, but it is temperature sensitive. You know how your boot feels one way in the store, but then different at 0°? Well, different colors heat up or cool down at different rates. A black boot is the worst color to have because black will heat up in the sun faster and cool down faster, thus it's flex characteristics can range all over the map. So when Marcel skis a black prototype or a clear (best in temperature regularity) prototype, it would make sense that he would feel a difference here.

The really impressive part is when he claims to feel the difference between orange transparent and red transparent... I have no idea if he can, but he claims to.
Sep 29 2012 6:37AM
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Skiingsnow
Posts: 1567 - Karma: 797
ok so i have gone from my old rampages to these RS140s, which when im skiing in australia are fantastic but the few day i used them in whistler they were significantly stiffer, is there anything a shop can do to soften them? i have already taken a bolt out so i guess that makes them around a 130 but the surefoot liners themselves are stiffer than snowboard boots
Sep 29 2012 7:56AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
Yep, softening boots is super easy and very fine tunable but it is permanent. Your local boot-fitter will gradually cut material away from the throat of the shell until the desired flex is achieved. Even though it is permanent, it will be matched to your needs and thus tailored to you.
Sep 29 2012 8:36AM
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Skiingsnow
Posts: 1567 - Karma: 797
awesome, and whats the deal with boot warmers? i heard they are expensive? like $300? do you need to have them professionally installed as well?
Sep 29 2012 8:42AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
They will run between $150-$200 usually and it's best to have them installed professionally. Most shops will install them for free when you buy them from the shop anyway.
Sep 29 2012 8:43AM
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Skiingsnow
Posts: 1567 - Karma: 797
cheers for the info :)
Sep 29 2012 9:03AM
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k2andcannoli
Posts: 644 - Karma: -36
boot heaters are for old people
Sep 29 2012 9:27AM
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Skiingsnow
Posts: 1567 - Karma: 797
I'll be 22 soon, I want to be comfortable in my old age.

also, 1000th post claim.
Sep 29 2012 9:39AM
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-ShredTheGnar-
Posts: 2038 - Karma: 111
If full tilt fit your foot,

You could just buy 2 different tongues for one model... stiffer one for racing, softer one for park...

Easy.
Sep 29 2012 3:46PM
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Nadia.
Posts: 1124 - Karma: 1,104
I would love to watch someone even attempt the Whistler DH course on 220 WC DH skis in SPKs or another 2 buckle boot. Good luck.

I've been using race boots for the last 5 years freeskiing (mostly big mountain) and I would never use anything else. When I need to crank a turn at high speed on a line over exposure I need to know that my boot and ski will act harmoniously as one and deliver the physical input I'm giving to the snow.

I've been using Atomic STH 130's for the last few years, and am now using the Redsters in 130. I used to race on 150s but moved down to 130 for racing ski cross and skiing pow.

It is impossible to get the same control, precision and response out of a sloppier freeski boot. Once you get a good pair of dialed in race boots you will never go back.

I know it seems like common sense, but undo your buckles on the chair.
Nov 11 2012 5:16AM
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