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4frnt Renegade for PNW

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Kreech
Posts: 4178 - Karma: 3,024
NS- I've been contemplating what my pow ski is going to be for next year. Last season I was on some 09 179 k2 hellbents which were fun in high angle light untracked snow, but there were some major design flaws I couldn't get over. First, they were super soft, and while this meant they were very playful, it also meant that, combined with the high degree of splay in the rocker that they were super unstable at speed and in variable conditions. Also, in heavier pnw powder on low angle runs, I could actively feel the ski pushing against the snow slowing me down. The huge tail rocker didn't help with their stability either.  Needless to say, I sold them and am now looking for a ski to overcome the shortcomings of the hellbent. I'm thinking that the renegade will be mush more stable in all conditions, plane better at speed, and just generally kick ass in every conceivable way. Also, as much as I'd like to think I ski switch in pow, I really don't, and I already have a park ski for skiing switch on hard snow. I'm thinking the flatter tail of the ren will be more stable and useful if I ever decide to tour, etc. The main thing I'm concerned about is tip dive in super deep snow, as stiff skis with low rocker kind of have a reputation for that. I'm 5'11", 140 lbs and I'll be skiing at crystal, Stevens, alpental, and baker for bc. Am I fantasizing or is this the perfect ski? I'm an aggressive experienced skier and will be using this primarily for deep snow skiing. I generally don't huck too much but I'm looking to step up my cliff game this year. What are te major drawbacks to this ski, and where does it excel? I have a deal on the 186, so that's the size I'd get. Should I go for it? If not, suggest an alternative. Thanks, Isak  
Jul 22 2012 2:31AM
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Blake.P
Posts: 9894 - Karma: 3,585
pm K_M about this. he had a pair of wrens last year and always raved about them. and he is from spokane so the conditions are nearly the same
Jul 22 2012 3:04AM
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crunkiest
Posts: 369 - Karma: 21
just a fair warning for my sake because i know nothing of either skis but if youre looking at the renegades
i would definetly wait for the 2012 2013 hojis to come out to market because based off some early product description, the just looked like a pimped out renegade
just a suggestion
Jul 22 2012 3:08AM
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Cyanicenine
Posts: 966 - Karma: 2,296
I haven't ridden the 4front renegade, but you might consider looking at the blizzard bodacious, I've been really impressed with how their flipcore technology rides.
Jul 22 2012 5:51AM
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NoSkillsCrew
Posts: 1197 - Karma: 2,058
So being a O.G. Mt. Hood Meadows kid I know where you are coming from. Hellbents are awesome out here in Utah but the softness and size kind of blows for other PNW days. The renegade is decent but with the variability of what we get a fully reverse camber ski may be a little much. Especially if you are looking for something to tour with.

I know its sacrelidge but if you are looking for a good all condition PNW pow (real shit to heavy as shit) my shortlist would include mostly flat or rocker camber rocker skis on the stiffer side to better shovel the shit. I would say on super deep days you want a ski that will plane better than try and always have tips up. I found when demoing full reverse camber skis were only baller on days when it was nutty deep.

My PNW pow ski shortlist with touring in mind is:
Line Pollard Opus
ON3P Caylor
K2 Pettitor
4frnt YLE
Atomic Bent Chet
Jul 22 2012 8:06AM
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Session
Posts: 5319 - Karma: 21,403
12/13 Billygoat

/thread
Jul 22 2012 11:05AM
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Balto
Posts: 25985 - Karma: 4,398
ya pretty much this
Jul 22 2012 11:24AM
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Kreech
Posts: 4178 - Karma: 3,024
@Blake p. Wrenegade is on3p. @crunkiest I'm looking for something a bit more pow devoted, and I don't know if the 112 waist of the hoji will cut it, especially since it's competing against the renegade, caylor, and a few other wider skis for my pow slot. Remember, this is a devoted pow stick, just with the benefit of added versatility over the hellbent. @NoSkillsCrew how does the ren do in variable chop and why would it be especially bed for touring? Wouldn't touring be mainly untracked stuff? Also, this would mainly be for resort/slackcountry for now. I might decide to throw some inserts in there and get a pair of touring binders, but I don't have any at gear now, so ATM it's only where I can hike to. @Session I've been interested in the 191 BG, but I don't know if I want something mounted at -9. One of the things I like about the renegade is that it's directional and chargey, but only has a -5 mount which means more tail for stomping. Also, I can get a good deal on renegades, but I'd have to pay quite a bit more for BGs, as I doubt anyone will be selling next years skis used anytime soon. Any other ideas?
Jul 22 2012 12:31PM
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84west
Posts: 646 - Karma: 1,254
The renegade would be a great option, also look into the Caylor or the YLE. The Caylor is going to be an expensive option but i skied it 25+ days at meadows and bachelor this past season and it is one of the most fun skis to have in our wet heavy snow. The Caylor stomps landings like no other ski I've ridden. no matter how far front or backseat you are you can usually ride out.

The YLE was a similar feel when I skied it but is more of an all mountain ski then the Caylor. If price is an important factor I'd get one either the Renegade or the YLE, if its not I'd recommend the Caylor. (I haven't skied the new Billy Goat, but it seems to be getting a lot of hype, if you can demo it I would recommend you try it.) in the end they are all great skis and you will enjoy whichever ski you buy.
Jul 22 2012 1:13PM
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Kreech
Posts: 4178 - Karma: 3,024
Actually I have a friend who I might be able to trade for his 191 caylors, so right now Caylors and Renegades are the main competitors. What would you guys reccommend between the two?
Jul 22 2012 1:15PM
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NoSkillsCrew
Posts: 1197 - Karma: 2,058
You need camber underfoot and in the tail to tour. This ski is full reverse camber which means that when you stand on the ski anything in front of behind the foot wont really be in contact with the snow giving you a tiny platform to balance on while touring which is not cool. Also touring on a giant ski (120+) that is heavy as crunk even for a resort ski will take it out of you especially if you are hiking in heavy snow. This ski is pretty much meant for resort POW and heli / sled access not for at all for touring.
Jul 22 2012 1:17PM
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Blake.P
Posts: 9894 - Karma: 3,585
Get the Caylors. I have a pair and they are the perfect pnw pow ski. Also I know wrens are on3p, I ment to just type rens. K_M gas a pair of the 4frnt renegades do pm him if you have questions
Jul 22 2012 1:43PM
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Kreech
Posts: 4178 - Karma: 3,024
^yup I'll talk to him. @NoSkillsCrew but doesn't hjorleifson do a shitload of touring? Also, you've go to keep in mind that I was previously on hellbents with fks and I did a lot of hiking. It was tiring, but any other ski will feel lighter than that setup so I'm not worried too much about weight.
Jul 22 2012 2:28PM
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Session
Posts: 5319 - Karma: 21,403
You really don't know what the fuck you're talking about. I know 2 people who spent a ton of time touring on the Caylor. It's all dependent on what sacrifices the individual skier is willing to make in the up and the down. Do you have any idea how many people tour a ton on reverse/reverse ski's.
Jul 22 2012 2:29PM
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SlurrP
Posts: 172 - Karma: 26
the renegade has zero camber underfoot anyways, making it more touring accessible.

4FRNT Renegade would be my choice between the two. they make great product and you will not be disappointed.
Jul 22 2012 2:43PM
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NoSkillsCrew
Posts: 1197 - Karma: 2,058
I personally tour on a rocker/camber/rocker ski. I have tried on full reverse and if you are just slacking then sure its fine for the 10 minute hike. I personally would never go on a serious tour on a full reverse ski, I find it way more difficult to lay down a track when you are wobbling around on that flat spot. So my experience is that hybrid (rocker / camber combo whatever) is more stable for touring than a fully rockered ski.
Jul 22 2012 5:30PM
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SelenaGomez
Posts: 986 - Karma: 78
I have to put my vote in for this as well. Pretty much amazing.
Jul 23 2012 9:34AM
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VD.
Posts: 4054 - Karma: 4,564
There was a thread on TGR similar to this, from a guy who skied PNW (Steven's I think) he was choosing between Super7,Renegade and BG can't seem to find it. However I did find this one, may still be of use, currently I can't link it because I'm on mobile. http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/244854-Which-aggressive-yet-playful-pow-ski-190cm-110-120mm-under-foot If anyone knows the thread I'm talking about, was up about a week ago, throw it up should help OP
Jul 23 2012 1:12PM
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DHogg
Posts: 3462 - Karma: 235
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/245994-BGs-112RPs-Super-7s-Help
Jul 23 2012 11:58PM
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VD.
Posts: 4054 - Karma: 4,564
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/245994-BGs-112RPs-Super-7s-Help
Jul 24 2012 10:31AM
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VD.
Posts: 4054 - Karma: 4,564

And this one as well

 http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/244854-Which-aggressive-yet-playful-pow-ski-190cm-110-120mm-under-foot

Jul 24 2012 10:33AM
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wiggleturns
Posts: 70 - Karma: 48
I have some Renegade 186s and I ski the PNW. They are great for deep days. They have no speed limit. Although I think someone mentioned this earlier but the 1213 HOJI is the same concept as the Renegade except not as wide a slightly shorter turn radius.

I'm lookin for a pair of these to supplement. The Renegades are handmade in SLC which makes them a little extra special.
Jul 24 2012 4:45PM
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Kreech
Posts: 4178 - Karma: 3,024
Well if you want to trade them away for some 186 night trains, hit me up! :)
Jul 25 2012 1:49AM
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NoSkillsCrew
Posts: 1197 - Karma: 2,058
It's all preference man. I am tiny (5'8" 140) and carrying 30 lbs of gear and a giant ski isn't what I want to do when I go BC.

I got giant as shit skis but I save em for the nutty resort days. I've seen people tour on anything here in UT from 210 straights to those scary as hell H2O skis. It's all about what you are willing to give up. But with the options out there I think my 2011 bacons aren't really giving up much.


I hiked on Icelantic Gyppos and slippage isn't the problem. For me balance was the problem. And when I am going up a crazy steep chute I want to feel as solid as possible. For me that means having camber under foot.

It is all preference.
Jul 25 2012 9:44AM
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Kreech
Posts: 4178 - Karma: 3,024
Sweet, I was hoping you'd chime in here. First of all... How tall/heavy are you? What do you prefer between your 191 caylors and 196 rens for pure untracked? For chopped powder? For crud/chunder? For groomers? Do you notice any distinct advantages of the renegade over the caylor when it comes to charging mach looney down pow or variable conditions? Also, on a side note, how solid do your plums feel? Do you trust them on the downhill like you would an alpine binding? I know they're supposed to be the burliest of the tech bindings, but do you still have to make comprimises in your skiing for the binding? Thanks kellen.
Jul 25 2012 10:12AM
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jaredmdub
Posts: 2229 - Karma: 564
^ By the sounds of it, if I were in that decision, I'd go Caylor.  Seems like a better all-around ski for everything you want to do.  And to say the Ren has good durability seems like just even more reassurance for the Caylor because everyone is always raving about the durability of ON3P.

In conclusion, K_M is a boss and that was a great and helpful post.  I'd go with the Caylor Isak (IMHO).
Jul 25 2012 1:39PM
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Kreech
Posts: 4178 - Karma: 3,024
Thanks a lot for the advice kellen; super helpful. By the sounds of it, a pair of 191 caylors sounds like it would fit the bill perfectly. Although I definitely want to get out on a pair of renegades at some point; they sound so damn fun. Maybe next summer after I work I'll pick up a touring rig and then there will be a renegade slot in my quiver. Hmmmm.....
Jul 25 2012 3:09PM
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BskiP
Posts: 1369 - Karma: 223
Check out the Hoj. Its a mini renegade built a lot lighter for touring purposes. I will be using this with dynafit radicals as a tour ski, and renegades as a resort ski. Renegade is built for PNW/BC riding, and will shred anything. Yes, I do help out with some work at 4frnt, but I honestly feel the Renegade is the best big ski out. I wouldnt be riding it if it wasnt.
Jul 26 2012 10:50AM
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4FRNT
Posts: 434 - Karma: 6,117
I haven't skied the Caylors enough to comment specifically on them, but as far as the Rens go, they are an awesome ski in almost any condition.

While they don't really thrive on icy groomers, they will pretty much ski anywhere you want them to really fast, and the reverse camber/sidecut match (that Hoji dreamed up, and we are calling Reflect Tech) allow you to shut them down in tight situations with no issues. The Reflect Tech pretty much eliminates the hookiness you get from most rockered skis, since the edge engages consistently up the ski, instead of grabbing all at once.

Touring-wise, they aren't a 2 pound all carbon ski that's only meant for going uphill, but if you see what Hoji is skiing on his pair, it's 90% toured to, and skied with Dynafits.

The HOJI is coming out next year and is a bit narrower, lighter and softer, but with the same Reflect Tech shape.

Both are amazing skis for the PNW. If you can wait until it snows to buy your new sticks, you can message me here and I'll find a place you can demo the Rens or HOJIs near you.
Aug 1 2012 12:57PM
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