Momentum Exposure - thinking of going?

I wish! How much does it cost? (i'm guessing a lot)

I posted in the other thread, but this does seem like a pretty cool thing.

It's like $2,100. I would love to go but just can't afford it right now :/

nope.

maybe if i was in highschool, on mom and dads dime, and I was really chasing film production I would...

BUT

i think that shit is a COMPLETE fucking scam. I mean think about it... they get kids to pay $3000 (tthats a guess, im not sure on the costs but id imagine camp, food, airfare, etc. youre looking at close to it) and say YO COME HERE AND FILM WITH ALL THESE ORANGE NAME FILMERS! whats next, EHEATH week?

the point is, yes, its totally a cool way to gather kids with interests that are exactly on point with eachother, but in the end youre just paying them, to be their advertiser. these kids, say 30 a session go with their brand new t2i (or d60 if youre splice productions) and their 4 pack of class 10 16gb memory cards... and FILM A BUNCH OF PROMO VIDEOS FOR THE CAMP!

like what the fuck, momentums genius... i just dont see who would pay to do itm BUT im sure many will.

im sure part of the camp will be setting up a vimeo account, and then a 'momentum exposure session group' where ALL these kids edits will end up, and momentum will literally be swimming in free media content, because no doubt about it, some kids with talent will go, and kids with no talent very well so might learn the basics and pump out a lil banger.

will the kids be stoked to do this?

fuck yeah.

is momentum helping the kids, and are the kids helping momentum? no doubt about it.

but in the end, it just seems kinda low that theyre charging people for this.

when I was a kid I ALWAYS wanted to go to summer camp, but i was a little fuck with shitty jobs and my fam wasnt paying for it.

I think the camp should be a LOT cheaper seeing as how theyre getting so much back from these kids.

i mean if I was given the opportunity, I'd be there in a flash working my ass off for them making videos for their use, if they were paying for my lift tickets, maybe a lil tiny bunk, you know the deal!

i mean im back in vancouver in a couple months... if anyone wants to take me up on that offer,

www.MEDIAbyMAX.com
www.facebook.com/MEDIAbyMAX
@mbailS4F


interested to hear what others have to say.

MB

I will be up at COC filming for the whole summer, interested to see who/what comes out of exposure!

I sort of agree with VT_scratch. Its awesome and in the future I would love to go, but i don't see myself or my parents willing to spend 2k on a filming camp, especially when there is cheaper alternatives. I don't see it drawing a huge crowd because people who aren't good enough won't want to go, and people that are probably already have some sort of job to do with it. I think it should be a bit cheaper than the ski camp, especially because of the whole promo thing/endrant

I lol'd

These responses are pretty much what I expected, I'd love to hear a response.

me too.

.

2 grand for a week? Whaha. Ridiculous. Of course it's a great learning oppurtunity, but the price tag is just rediculous. And of all the campers that are going, how many are actually going to make a living out of it in the end? I'm guessing not many...

anyone else?

bishop?

It's honestly a bunch of bullshit. It's like when companies charge $10 for a sticker pack that is FREE ADVERTISING for the company. I wouldn't be surprised if the people running the camp are having a good laugh over it. They're basically getting kids to pay to work. Reminds me of sharecropping. With $2k you could put together so many ski trips with your own crew and learn a lot more about filming. Sure, at the camp you get to work with pros and other filmers, but you can do that on the internet and not pay money for it. Just my 2 cents.

If I was super into filming when I went to ski camp back in the day, I would definitely consider the exposure camp. but, I feel like after you're 18, you parents aren't gonna send you off to summer camp anymore, so it becomes illogical.


And i'm stoked to be around when that camp is happening, should be quite interesting to see the number of kids that actually sign up.

imo filmings all about experience, hands on experience.Though I have no doubt in my mind youd get a shit load of experience at this camp, with 2 grand, you could easily fund lots of trips, that would give you even more experience....too bad the average filmer doesnt have 2 grand to drop just for a week haha.....I also don't think the benefits youd get from this camp would be worth 2k. Realistically, put the 2k towards film school, atleast in a film school you get to meet proffesionals in the industry who can help get you jobs, and at the end of the day thats whats gunna put food in your mouth, and allow you to keep filming...

True, but what if you're dreaming of a job in the ski industry?

In that case, I think Exposure makes a lot of sense. However I still think that the pricing keeps it beyond the reach of the market they are looking for. I guess we will see how many kids show up in a couple weeks.

I feel like I can maybe offer some input as I've been somewhat involved with the Woodward (East) Digital Media Camp, both as a camper and intern. Woodward's program has been around for 5 years now so I've seen how it has developed even though I haven't been back in a couple years.


Exposure is very expensive, whereas Woodward's is definitely cheaper. But you have to take into account that Exposure is at a ski resort.

From my experience, the benefit of these camps isn't the coaching. Sure you can bring in guys from PBP, Voleurz, wherever, but there are a lot of things about video that you just can't actually teach. You can definitely teach about distribution and technical aspects of video and such, but a week of coaching isn't going to turn all the campers into awesome filmmakers. I witnessed this firsthand at Woodward. They bring in some of the best skate filmmakers in the world, but there's only so much you can teach to kids who just don't have it. Plus you have to take into account that sometimes the people who actually DO it best aren't the ones who can TEACH it best. Kind of like how you have those professors who seem brilliant but are terrible teachers.

Where the benefit lies is getting to be around so much talent and industry people. At Woodward as a camper and intern, I was given the opportunity to direct my own shoots with athletes like Chris Haslam, Cooper Wilt, Montre Livingston, and a bunch of other pro inliners, bikers, gymnasts, etc. Fuel TV also came to camp to shoot a commercial, and campers were allowed to shoot a RED ONE camera, and some of the shots even made it into the final cut. The coaches definitely helped me learn some things, but my real learning experiences came when I was directing athletes and setting up a shoot on my own. However, this is something I wouldn't have had the opportunity to do at such a young age without having gone to Woodward, and I maintain communication with many of the contacts I made while I was there, including athletes, other interns, coaches, etc.

Don't forget that Momentum Exposure is a summer camp. It's meant for kids to go, get better at what they do, and have fun. That's what a summer camp is. If you're complaining about how all it is is Momentum trying to get free advertising, then you aren't their target market. They want kids who love filming no matter what (even if they're doing free advertising) and will be hyped to get to meet the best athletes and filmmakers. And the fact of the matter is that you will definitely make connections. And if you're talented and enthusiastic, I'm sure you'll make an impression on the coaches, which is worth something in itself.

So no, I don't think Exposure is going to breed some new generation of amazing ski filmmakers, just in the same way that ski camps don't generate ridiculously good skiers. For some, a camp is an opportunity to increase your skill level if you're serious about whatever it is you're doing. For others, it's simply an opportunity to go to camp and spend a week doing what you love and getting a bit better at it along the way, whether that's in front of or behind the lens, and you'll make connections regardless. For some people, that's worth the money. If it's not worth it to you, congrats, but nobody really cares.


Sparknotes: The "coaching" aspect of Exposure is somewhat of a gimmick imo, and it won't turn all campers into crazy filmmakers. But if you truly enjoy filming (even without being paid) and want to film with pros for a week, I'm sure it will be fun and you'll learn new things, not to mention the connections.

from the sounds of it, will seems to have captured it quite well

I'll be saving my money this year anyway, and I don't know where my photography will take me in the next year.
So, who knows, maybe around this time next year going to this camp will be more worth it than say, a new body, or a new lens.

i am sorry but you sir, are an idiot. bash a camp that is trying to offer something to the m&a part of skiing as a whole, that has not been offered before.

I'd love to go and being young I have plenty of time throughout high school, but I do think that exposure camp should be quite a bit cheaper. Obviously you're being "taught," but the cost of a ski setup, camera setup, AND camp? Jesus it's just too much, cut down the cost of camp and I'll think about it...

Im not bashing momentum as whole, trust me I am ALL FOR summer ski camps. I have tons of friends who go to camps in Oregon and up at whistler every summer, and kids who have done it in the past. and they all come back with nothing but good stories of their great times and everything they learned.

So please, don't jumpt the gun and read my damn post.

What I AM bashing is how outrageously priced this camp is, for what it is offering. If you actually fucking read my post you would see that my main point is that, in my opinion, the camp is getting WAY more out of it than the camper.

For the kids going to the ski camp, I don't think thats the case. kids learn new tricks and get all stoked, go back to their home mountain for the winter and continue progressing. Are they a better skier because of the camp? FUCK YEAH! but are they wearing 'CAMP MOMENTUM' jackets all around the mountain though and showing off their new skills and just promoting the camp? HELL NO. If someone asks if they have ever been to a summer camp, or someone points out their summer ski camp sticker and asks about it is the camper gonna promote the camp, hell yeah, because they had a great time. And it just ends at that, the great times kids have is what gets more kids to go.

On the film camp though, as I said and stressed, momentum will be left with sooooo much footage, and more so COMPLETED EDITS that promote their camp.

I think the camp should be way fucking cheaper, or they should even be paying the kids to go, because in the end, I still feel like I would be paying $2500 to MAKE VIDEOS FOR MOMENTUM. do you realize how important video advertising is today??? You make films yourself, correct?

So please, fuck off and don't tell me im a fool. My arguments are completely relevant and thats how I see it.

As for promoting myself, it was to stress the example of momentum should be offering a MUCH cheaper program for this, or even getting kids up there for free, similar to an internship postion seeing as how they're getting SO MUCH FREE PROMO WORK OUT OF THIS.

Get it?

For sure I wasn't thinking completely about the kid who sucks at skiing, but loves filming, and everything that goes along with skiing, and has some skier friends, but even so, i dont think thats a strong enough reason for momentum or any other camp trying to do this to charge such a heavy prive given what THEY (the camp) receives at the end of the week when the kid blows his $2500 hes saved doing shitty jobs for the last year, and he creates all this potentially great edits COMPLETELY branded with momentum. I mean theres logos all over camp, the rails, the sunshine, its clearly fucking summer time.

Don't be so close minded.

First of all, its a overnight camp, they provide housing, food, activities, tickets and a private park for 6 day of skiing, 8 nights of food/activities/hotel. That costs alot of money and really is what the majority of the money is going to. They also have to pay "coaches" and unlike windless, momentum and COC actually pay their coaches well, so there is another chunk. And of course, they camp itself has running costs and needs to profit too, thats the final chunk of money.

Are you really suggesting this "exposure camp" isn't going to create memories, isn't going to make these kids stoked, isn't going to make them better in the end?

Do you really think the extra 6-8 edits that come out are really going to add that much to momentums advertising? Momentum spends thousands of dollars on marketing alone (id dare say 100s of thousands) you really think they're trying to scam out more advertising? No dude, they're creating a camp for action sports filmers, a place for kids to go and learn. They already pay filmers to make edits, they already have that part of their marketing locked down.

The fact you suggest that momentum should pay kids to come to camp is insane, you're missing the point of the exposure camp. You really think those edits (most of which probably wont even be that sick, cause its gonna be beginners at this camp, no decent film maker is gonna pay for that camp) is a profit for momentum? No way man.

If you don't like the idea then guess what? YOU DONT HAVE TO GO. don't pay 2500 bucks to go to momentum and ski/film for a week, thats your fucking choice dude. It's not a fucking genocide so chill the fuck out. I went to ski camp twice (high north) when i was in high school and those two weeks i went were one of the funnest weeks of my life, summer ski camp is fucking awesome and if you were into filming, the exposure camp would be just as fun man.

I fucking hate you attitude towards this, you have such a negative mindset on this camp because all you think is that they want free marketing. They already get free marketing, from every camper, that wears the free tshirts and tell all their friends and family how fun it was. I would almost be willing to bet the word of mouth spread by 100's of campers online and in person is at a higher value than some edits produced by kids at the exposure camp. Like i said before, momentum already pays people to make edits for them, to make very high quality edits for them, which is why they pay them.

I don't think you realize that momentum has to PAY MONEY for all of there accommodations, so an internship isn't the same as the exposure camp. You can't just sign up for an internship, thats now how shit works. This camp is giving the opportunity to kids to come to camp, have fun, ski and film and be taught basics about video shit. Again, the videos these kids put out will be a fraction of their advertisement, so small that i doubt they even care about it.

You need to get it out of your head that this is a scam, its a fucking camp dude. jesus

I think your being a lil over aggressive as well.

But come on man, this thread was posted by bishop as a discussion to see what people thought about this new camp. And that's what I think.

Im not saying momentum should be paying kids to go, but I just think thats a shit load of money for what it is.

I know I don't have to go, and I'm not trying to discourage kids from going and trying to look like a total shit talking ass hole.

BIshop made this thread, and I felt the need to reply. Ever since the first post on the newsfeed about the camp, thats the firts shit that came to mind.

I appreciate you mentioning the difference between coaching and paying the coaches at these camps, thats good to know.

But fuck off, im just discussing an aspect of this camp that I felt strongly about, if you don't agree thats cool, and I appreciate you guys commenting back at my comments, but I think everyone's forgetting about what Im actually saying, and just getting aggravated feeling like Im talking shit to momentum and about the staff involved, which totally isn't the case/

You're right, I know nothing about how much money they put into their marketing etc, but if theyre branding this as creating the next generation of ski film makers, then fuck yeah I bet theyll get some banger edits out of these kids and that just totally to their advantage.

Has anyone signed up for this camp yet? Im really interested to hear about how it all unfolds and hearing from the campers after this.

I'll try and stop nagging, but for fucks sake im raising what I feel is a fairly logical point...

what the fuck

ok cool quote me all you want, you can clearly see my issue is the cost.

I can see what you're saying here Max.


I can't really comment much on the price. A week of living and skiing a private park at Whistler is mad expensive, so I think the price is probably at least somewhat more justified than you think.


I can also see why you're saying what you are about the free advertising, but having experienced Woodward Digital Media Camp firsthand, I disagree. At Woodward the majority of campers were extremely inexperienced and were just learning the basics. The edits they made were definitely not anywhere near the caliber of the edits that Woodward actually promotes to advertise the camp.

Not to toot my own horn here or anything, but out of the two years that I was a camper, I think my edit was the only one (out of the sessions that I was there) that ended up giving Woodward free advertising. And that was only because I shot with a bunch of big name inliners, so the edit was reposted on multiple blading websites. Woodward itself didn't even promote the edit. So as I said, I can see why you feel that way about the advertising, but I don't think many of the edits will be on par with the edits that Momentum's actual video staff produces. And they may be saying it will create the next generation of ski filmers, but part of that is just marketing, and part of that might be a bit of optimism on Bishop's part (no offense Bishop). It's just a summer camp, it's not years of filming experience crammed into one week.

No doubt.

Im not sure what the woodword camp offers, but also keep in mind that all the edits made by these kids WILL end up on newschoolers, and there's always the saying,

"Any media is good media."

So you're right, a lot of these edits won't be great. But what they will do is come up when someone searches, 'summer skiing' on ns, or even on youtube or google.

But yeah for sure not many of these edits will be up to par with who momentum pays to create videos for them, but look at all the no names on NS who make some absolute bangers, they dont get paid, theyre just some kdis with a camera doing what they love, and look at how many views these things get / end up top rated on the site.

thanks for your response ma dude

I just think its ridiculous how upset you are getting over the price. Do you know how many kids go to summer ski camps and just are pissed they are there? even tho their parents spent 2k+ on the camp. Ive talked to alot of coaches (windells) who have kids in their groups who just dont wanna be there. Alot of kids (not all kids mind you) have their parents pay for their camp, therefore they don't see the issue you are seeing. I don't think an up and coming film maker should pay 2k for the momentum camp but that doesn't mean i dont think the price is fair. Do you think paying 2k for ski camp is a waste of money? cause thats basically what exposure is, plus you get to film some shoots and hang out with film makers. Thats all it is dude, its the same as ski camp, skiing with pros and talking to them. the price is very fair IMO for what you get from the camp (accommodations) and thats just how much it costs. Not sure where your logic is centered, but you don't seem to understand that momentum doesn't just pocket 2k per camper...

So, going along with your logic, every kid making banger edits should get paid by the ski resort for the free adversing? You need to expand this logic of yours outside of the small monopolies of ski camps and realize that what you're saying is far from logical.

I've never been to a summer camp myself, so I mean yeah I am kinda surprised there are kids there bitching about being there.

I like the way you put that, making it sound way more casual. But, look how they are promoting it, and the post on the homepage about it, making seem exactly opposite of what your saying.

Aiight I've said what I wanted to say in this thread, and ill spark note it for everyone else who wants to bark at me.

I think the camp is a cool idea, but from what I know about it, the logistics don't seem completely figured out to maximize bringing in the talent they want to breed these 'next generation ski film makers'. Mostly because of the cost, but also the turn around aspect of momentum receiving tons of edits for their benefit. Obviously the whole thing isn't a scam from momentum to get free web media content, but to me, I just don't see this being the greatest program.

To those who are going, kill it and have a dope time!

VT_scratch is raising some really good points. What it boils down to is basically intern filmers are going to be paying 2500 to make edits for momentum.  In my mind that is wack. 

well, if they are gearing toward bringing some talented film makers in, to learn the ropes of SKI film making - then yeah.

but everyone else seems to think regardless of how theyre promoting it, its a camp for 13 year olds who just got a gopro and figured out imovie and are stoked to start getting some ski filming in, and mom and dad have money and are happy to support them with that.

I definitely can see both sides (for and against the camp) but what really stands out for me is what will be produced.

But the whole point you guys are missing is that momentum doesn't want their videos to represent the camp cause there is a good chance theyre probably not going to be that good. The kids doing this camp probably have barely used their equipment before and/or never really filmed very good talent. These videos aren't going to be marketable like say a session video made by their paid filmers. You guys are totally missing this point.

Exactly. And I can tell you guys that at Woodward's media camps, they take the really really good kids, and bring them back as interns and staff filmers/photog's.

Nope. have you even read anything in this thread...

Let me clarify.

Having been to a production camp, I can tell you that being an intern and being a media camper are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

When you are a camper, you have paid a shit ton of money to be there. You get to have fun, you get to do things on your own time, you get to skate/ski/whatever. You get to film with pros, and you get to film whatever you want.

When you are an intern, it isn't like that at all. Granted, I had a blast interning at Woodward, but you have to do what they tell you. I barely filmed any fun stuff while I was interning. I filmed camp rec activities and shit. I had a fun time doing that to, but I didn't just get to shoot skateboarding all day long like I did when I was a camper. Plus, you have deadlines for edits and you stay up late as shit working on projects for the camp.

Bottom line is that these film campers at Exposure aren't going to be working their asses off for the camp. They're going to do tons of fun stuff with their friends off the hil. They'll get to film pros when they're on the hill. I'm sure if they want to take laps with their friends, that's completely fine. If filming with your friends AND some of the most talented skiers in the world sounds like boring work to you that you should be getting paid to do (even as a kid), then you may want to rethink why exactly you're interested in photography or videography.

ahhh you didn't make this as clear in your earlier posts.

I didn't think about the difference between an intern and a 'film-camper' - but still what im stuck on is the end result of a bunch of cool edits for momentum Yeah they're just gonna be fun edits etc, but as EarthTones mentioned, people DO come on to ns and just simply watch edits. they dont give a fuck who made it, yeah we all check out top rated, and are attracted to videos posted by orange names, simply because we know they are related into the industry in SOME way, so their edits will either be filmed and edited very well, or will have dope skiing.

but still Im thinking the camp costs a lot for what it is, but as you just opened my eyes to, there is a CLEAR difference in the process of the kids attending the camp and making videos, versus the interns being told to film this that that etc, due now then whenever, but in the end, all these edits are still winding up on the same website and being distributed to the same audience, as EarthTones brought up.

Let me jump in here seeing as I have a pretty good idea on whats happening since being one of the head videographers. Most of the stuff has probably been already stated but let me give it a shot.

First of all, they're about 12-14 kids signed up for it at the moment. Some of them are hybrid (photography and videography) and some are one or the other.

I believe they will be filming what they want when they want with coaches like Darren or Johnny to help them if they need it. They can most likely take laps when they want to ski if they would like.

They are going to get to do things the ski campers are not able to do, ie: film at the sunset shoot, im sure they're some other things they'll be able to do.

As for costs, you have to think about it: Pass $50/day Lodging (a very nice hotel) not sure about prices, Food (lunch, breakfast, dinner) Afternoon activities (paintball, wake boarding, etc) Im sure they're a few other costs that im forgetting. The difference between the woodward program and momentum is that one is in Whistler and one is on a Campus type thing, probably not very expensive for lodging at the Woodward campus.

Essentially its a camp for kids who are most likely not that good at skiing but like to ski as well as film (as someone mentioned) Sure its a little expensive but you're going to have a kick ass time and film some of the best in the game (Wallisch, Woodsy, etc).

Plus if you think about it, it doesn't matter to them if you're skiing or filming, they spend the same amount of money on accommodations/tickets etc...

when i was 13 i weighed 300 lbs and had low self esteem and no self respect. When all of my friends would go to ski camp, i was stuck at home with my camera, some hand lotion and 3 month subscription to brazzers.com. But thanks to the kind people at momentum, I was able fit into a crowd for once in my life. Now i have a false self esteem built purely on false encouragement from my parents and my dick in my hand. Thanks momentum!

Can't tell if troll or serious.....

just appreciate the fact that it is funny bra

But it wasent.

aww whats the matter, hit a little to close to home there big guy?

I think DTF's description makes sense. Looking at just the cost for a week it seems expensive; but it's pretty fair if you break down what is included for the camper. If I was younger, something like this would be pretty awesome.

fuck off dude