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The "Global test"

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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,141
So, apparently a whole bunch of conservative pundits, and Condy Rice, (and, big shocker, all of Fox News' staff) have taken this little sound bite out of context and tried to make it seem like Kerry was saying something he clearly wasn't, if you actually watched the debate. Or listened to his complete sentence.

So here's my question: does the Right actually think Americans are THIS STUPID? That they can't follow a simple sentence? That they need simple english mis-explained to them? Because I'm really confused here. This is some of the shadiest campaigning I've seen since the last time I had something to gripe about with this administration (ten minutes ago). They seem to have little faith in you peoples' ability to figure out simple concepts for yourselves.

So, is anyone's intelligence insulted? Was anyone fooled? I'd really like to know, because if this works... well, that makes me sad.

------------
In a haze
A stormy haze
I’ll be around
I’ll be loving you
Always
Always

Here I am
And I’ll take my time
Here I am
And I’ll wait in line
Always
Always...
Oct 6 2004 12:49AM
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SmoKinSkier
Posts: 5501 - Karma: 20
Though i know what u r talking about im not completely familiar nor do i remember clearly what Kerry said. But i do know that regardless of his promise to make sure that he wont give anyone veto pwoer over matters of US security he cant gurantee that without risking looking like a jackass to someone! If he creates such a global test and empowers the Un how is our security not in someone elses hands! Like i saidn though i need to read up more and undestand more clearly what this test includes. These are just some quick thoughts ill ook into it.




Pete is currently sulking around Mt. Hood, shooting with Poor Boyz Productions and hitting on Kristi Leskinen. She hates guys, Pete lamented, so it’s not going good. Apparently Canada isn’t the only thing that’s tough for Pete to get into.
-kamikaze
Oct 6 2004 12:55AM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,141
Er... ok, maybe that's the problem, no one is saying what it actually was supposed to MEAN, and is just putting words in his mouth. Ok. Loose quote:

''I will never give up the right to preemptive strikes. But you have to do it in a way that passes the test, passes the global test; where your allies and your countrymen understand that you're doing what you're doing for legitimate reasons.''
(Loose quote, I don't remember exactly, because it was last week.)

That seems to make sense to me... prove to your people and to other nations that you're going to war for legitimate reasons, so that you have some measure of credibility, and you'll probably get more support.

What the Right-wing pundits are saying, is that he meant, by global test (they don't play the whole quote, of course), he meant that the president should make sure that the UN, and all the other important world powers should agree with his actions. Which isn't what he said at all. I find that sneaky, underhanded, sleazy, whatever.... just extremely low politics. I'm not sure why I expected better from them (it is Fox, after all), but really, it's kind of... well... despicable.

More so because it apparently works on some people? God, it scares me how uninformed some people are... and yet, they're voting.

------------
In a haze
A stormy haze
I’ll be around
I’ll be loving you
Always
Always

Here I am
And I’ll take my time
Here I am
And I’ll wait in line
Always
Always...
Oct 6 2004 1:01AM
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SmoKinSkier
Posts: 5501 - Karma: 20
I see what u r saying and in a sense could be seen as dirty politics(which occurs in all elections by both parties to sway stupid voters). I like the concept of the idea but it would get very sticky and we would end up in no better situation that we are in now.

For instance if KErry feels we should attack Iran and by his global test the UN and other nations disagree but Kerry staying true to his word takes action anyway( For the safety of the US) where have we improved our policy on what happened in Iraq?




Pete is currently sulking around Mt. Hood, shooting with Poor Boyz Productions and hitting on Kristi Leskinen. She hates guys, Pete lamented, so it’s not going good. Apparently Canada isn’t the only thing that’s tough for Pete to get into.
-kamikaze
Oct 6 2004 1:07AM
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Raoul_Duke
Posts: 584 - Karma: 17
un is too beurocratic, its just a way for pissant countrys like france to have levearge over us so they dont feel so impotent as international powers. mean while they sell weapons to iraq and get kickbacks from saddam, and call us criminals. Fuck them they don't have our intrests at heart or anyone elses except their own for that matter. frankly I think it's (un) being run by crooks they wont release oil for food documents because it could implicate frace and russia. How ironic that they are our biggest critics. international law bodies dont work. History has shown that.
Oct 6 2004 1:14AM
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trevorwoulddoit
Posts: 6153 - Karma: 199
I am somewhat resigned to the fact that the people who vote Bush because of things like this deserve to get what is coming, and are basically bringing about their own destruction.

The problem is it's not just their own destruction. They're decision affects the rest of the world too. And that is the problem. Uninformed voters bringing things, not only on themselves, but the rest of the world.

Why do these people make these decisions?
They cannot comprehend the power they have.



But, you can always fall back on your degree in... Communications! Oh, dear Lord!
I know! Is phony major. Lubchenko learn nothing. Nothing!

Our greatest glory consists not in never falling. But in rising every time we fall.

Breathe and Stop

Ninja Steeze 05
Oct 6 2004 1:23AM
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ESB
Posts: 9273 - Karma: 10,647
'un is too beurocratic, its just a way for pissant countrys like france to have levearge over us so they dont feel so impotent as international powers. mean while they sell weapons to iraq and get kickbacks from saddam, and call us criminals. Fuck them they don't have our intrests at heart or anyone elses except their own for that matter. frankly I think it's (un) being run by crooks they wont release oil for food documents because it could implicate frace and russia. How ironic that they are our biggest critics. international law bodies dont work. History has shown that.'

What history has shown that intenational bodies of law 'don't work?' I know of two that have existed in modern time; one didn't work (League of Nations), but the other (U.N.) seems to be gaining influence and prestige. Any other bodies that might have existed in the past were limited immensely simply by basic communication, because it's hard to have an international body when it takes weeks or months to get information from place to place. Communication and willingness are the two limits of an international body, and it seems to me that we've got both now.

As far as selling weapons to Iraq, do you honestly believe that the U.S. is free of guilt there? As far as working in its own self-interest, do you think the U.S. is free of guilt there? It seems a bit hypocritical to accuse a 'pissant' country like France (nice play on words there) of things we're just as guilty of.


Wayne: 'I don't own a gun, let alone many guns that would necessitate the use of a rack. What am I going to do... with a gun rack?'
Oct 6 2004 1:23AM
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trevorwoulddoit
Posts: 6153 - Karma: 199
Raoul, lets not forget that the Americans were the people that put Saddam in power.



But, you can always fall back on your degree in... Communications! Oh, dear Lord!
I know! Is phony major. Lubchenko learn nothing. Nothing!

Our greatest glory consists not in never falling. But in rising every time we fall.

Breathe and Stop

Ninja Steeze 05
Oct 6 2004 1:27AM
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Raoul_Duke
Posts: 584 - Karma: 17
^ Im not sure if i quite got what you were saying, at any rate historicly 2 opponents have never been closer in their views they are essentially the same on many levels, but partisan politics is so ugly right now because media is more like reality tv than a documentary, scum sells. Don’t get caught up in character assassination and demonizing that does nothing except polarize people and does not get anywhere.
Oct 6 2004 1:35AM
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Raoul_Duke
Posts: 584 - Karma: 17
he threw a coup,or assainated the iraq ruler i cant remember which, we gave him weapons to fight the russians
Oct 6 2004 1:37AM
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Raoul_Duke
Posts: 584 - Karma: 17
no wait that was afgahnistan, maybe iraq too i cant remeber for sure, elaborete on your statment
Oct 6 2004 1:40AM
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trevorwoulddoit
Posts: 6153 - Karma: 199
The US gave Saddam the means to take power in Iraq. George Bush Sr. basically instated him as the Iraqi leader. They were all buddy-buddy until the Gulf War.



But, you can always fall back on your degree in... Communications! Oh, dear Lord!
I know! Is phony major. Lubchenko learn nothing. Nothing!

Our greatest glory consists not in never falling. But in rising every time we fall.

Breathe and Stop

Ninja Steeze 05
Oct 6 2004 1:44AM
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Raoul_Duke
Posts: 584 - Karma: 17
saddam was in power in Iraq for 40 years!
Oct 6 2004 1:50AM
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trevorwoulddoit
Posts: 6153 - Karma: 199
Actually only 24 years. And I apologize. It wasn't Bush Sr. who instated Saddam. The name of the guy who did slips my mind at the moment...



But, you can always fall back on your degree in... Communications! Oh, dear Lord!
I know! Is phony major. Lubchenko learn nothing. Nothing!

Our greatest glory consists not in never falling. But in rising every time we fall.

Breathe and Stop

Ninja Steeze 05
Oct 6 2004 2:02AM
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Raoul_Duke
Posts: 584 - Karma: 17
my bad it was the baath party that was in power for 40 years saddam became president in 79'
Oct 6 2004 2:04AM
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trevorwoulddoit
Posts: 6153 - Karma: 199
Well at least we're on the same page now.

Henry Kissinger may have been behind it. But right now I'm not sure exactly who it was.



But, you can always fall back on your degree in... Communications! Oh, dear Lord!
I know! Is phony major. Lubchenko learn nothing. Nothing!

Our greatest glory consists not in never falling. But in rising every time we fall.

Breathe and Stop

Ninja Steeze 05
Oct 6 2004 2:07AM
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Crystal-needs-a-park
Posts: 9939 - Karma: 15
staring at the finger
__________________
You know the Nazis had pieces of flair that they made the Jews wear.

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Oct 6 2004 2:43AM
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davidh
Posts: 4219 - Karma: 8
wow. this is probably the least stupid post in the NSG at the moment. No really stupid ignorant posts, and no name calling. Way to go!
_____________________________________________________________

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-lateralis

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-Dubya.

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Oct 6 2004 3:42AM
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SmoKinSkier
Posts: 5501 - Karma: 20
It is pretty solid at the moment but its late in the night and all the kiddies are in bed wait till the sun comes up!




Pete is currently sulking around Mt. Hood, shooting with Poor Boyz Productions and hitting on Kristi Leskinen. She hates guys, Pete lamented, so it’s not going good. Apparently Canada isn’t the only thing that’s tough for Pete to get into.
-kamikaze
Oct 6 2004 4:34AM
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flexmacman
Posts: 622 - Karma: 30
^^ please read again......there's more than a few stupid ignorant posts.
Oct 6 2004 5:29AM
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coolcat410
Posts: 882 - Karma: 11
Great spirits have always encountered violent oppositions from medicore minds.
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Team Fresh
Oct 6 2004 2:00PM
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Raoul_Duke
Posts: 584 - Karma: 17
did you get that from your quote of the day calander, the one with kittys playing with a ball of string?
Oct 6 2004 2:06PM
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wilkesyachtingco
Posts: 4425 - Karma: 41
he undoubtedly got it from the great film, 'cant hardly wait' where it was featured as the personal favorite quote of that nerdy kid... i cant remember the characters name...















Mercy's eyes are blue
When she places them in front of you
Nothing holds a roman candle to
The solemn warmth you feel inside
Oct 6 2004 2:09PM
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B-Wald
Posts: 8113 - Karma: 96
coolcat. what does that have to do with anything?
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- Andrew Berwald
Oct 6 2004 2:13PM
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Raoul_Duke
Posts: 584 - Karma: 17
i was just joking anyway, its not a bad quote
Oct 6 2004 2:16PM
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hellmut
Posts: 1460 - Karma: 29
I am confused on Kerry's policy. He wants to gain favour with the rest of the world first, right? But I thought he voted for the war in Iraq even when we didnt have the support of the UN, France Germany. Wheres the line in the sand?
Oct 6 2004 3:15PM
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coolcat410
Posts: 882 - Karma: 11
I was kidding. I was in school and there was a huge post with albert einstien (sp?) and it said it on there so i just posted it for the hell of it.
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Team Fresh
Oct 6 2004 7:23PM
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*pocket-rocketeer*
Posts: 1013 - Karma: 16
i wasnt very suprised by the response on that statement at all. It wouldnt be the first time you had republicans bridging the gap between what John Kerry really means and what the Right says John Kerry means...Is it low...ya pretty much, but i saw it coming and sadly enouph, many truely arent smart enouph to figure it out for themselves.



**ReHaB iS fOr QuItErS**
Oct 6 2004 9:30PM
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rhcp
Posts: 2598 - Karma: 18
michael moore, to the original subject in this thread
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'I am so smart, I am so smart. S-M-R-T, wait no, S-M-A-R-T!'
Oct 7 2004 2:19PM
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punk_rider
Posts: 2327 - Karma: 10
kerry sucks! the majority is not always right! sometimes you're the only one to find something legitimate and you are right! remember Antigon from Sophocle...

*******************

PUNK'S NOT DEAD!
RAILS SUCK!
POWDER SKIING RULES!
DEATH TO SNOWBOARD-ERS!!
VOTE BUSH!!
Oct 7 2004 2:28PM
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