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US soldier snaps, kills Afghan civilians

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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089

Seems like some soldier got hit with a little case of nervous breakdown, walked out of the base in Kandahar at 3am and started blasting.

Three confirmed dead, but the real number will probably be closer to fifteen. Women, children, men etc.

The soldier then walked back to the base and let himself be detained. No motive except for the initial breakdown.



Damn, they're not cathing any breaks nowadays over there, with pissing on bodies, burning Qurans and now this.

Mar 11 2012 4:50AM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Oh, and going to war is not courageous at all in it itself, that is my opinion, and my perception.

At least when not uniformly defending a nation on its borders, which is not going on in the US right now.

I for one am as unpatriotic as they come, and am still thinking of the possibilities to escape over defending if push comes to shove, yet even though I don't believe in arbitrary lines drawn in sand, I will fight for my 'nation' and I will kill you if it really comes to that, if escape is not an option.

But volunteering for war? Pssssh! Bullshit, I say. Think of all the resources committed towards military progress, converted towards foreign help or scientific development.

Think.
Mar 12 2012 10:01PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147

sexism. I should be calling you missy if you'd run and hide from war, at the expense of your own countrymen.

Mar 12 2012 10:10PM
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Casey
Posts: 7788 - Karma: 23,494
Every time you reply its a different argument; there is no logical progression. You went from "only drafted soldiers are heroes" to "no soldiers in iraq and afganistan are heroes because the war has no purpose" to "well its complicated" to "even if my country was invaded, I would bail if I could and let someone else fight for me" Get your shit together before you post again.
Mar 12 2012 10:11PM
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baethoven
Posts: 4953 - Karma: 332
more like sissy..




Mar 12 2012 10:13PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
There's no shit to "get together".

A hero is someone who appears at a time of need. Do I believe that soldiers who enlist fit that "need"? No.

Within a draft you take the best and the worst - you might overlook facts here and there, but the agenda calls for a soldier of sorts, and that is what passes through.

Is that man or woman a hero by default? Fuck no! Just by being in the armed forces of some nations? Fuck no!

I never said soldiers in Iraq or Afghanistan are heroes, I said the opposite! I said that they are not heroes at all, just by association!

How hard is that to get through your silly little head?
Mar 12 2012 10:21PM
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TheRightCoast
Posts: 314 - Karma: 4
This is very true and I believe it is more heroic to volunteer rather than have to go because you got drafted.
Mar 12 2012 10:30PM
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564
NS really should switch to vBulletin so I can put people on an ignore list that hides their posts from me.
Mar 12 2012 10:32PM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,682
And that is why we don't give two and a half shits about your opinion.
Mar 12 2012 10:45PM
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~~~~~~~~
Posts: 2345 - Karma: 2,104
I think both of you are right, when there is an actual need for a war to be fought.
Mar 12 2012 10:47PM
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Schoellkopf
Posts: 1300 - Karma: 122
If a draft happened there would be a lot more hesitation to jump into needless wars.
Mar 12 2012 10:47PM
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564
No there wouldn't. If anything leaders would be FAR more willing to go shoot shit up with a draft. "Oh, we don't have enough guys to invade (for the sake of an example) Mexico? Fuck it, draft another 50,000"
By that same token a draft in a way can alleviate some of the stresses I would assume that frontline troops are under. A draft means that there could potentially be a bigger standing army that would allow (if troops in the theater of war stay at the same amount) people to be rotated home more and they wouldn't be stuck like the 101st or 82 or other groups doing 14-15 month deployments.
Mar 12 2012 10:49PM
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Casey
Posts: 7788 - Karma: 23,494
I know you said the opposite. Thats what I said in my last post if you read it correctly. I was just saying that your arguments are inconsistent, and all over the map, and you respond to my post on the premise that I said the complete opposite of what I actually wrote- which, amazingly enough, happens to be a prime example of the "shit" I mentioned in my last post that you need to "get together".
Mar 12 2012 10:50PM
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~~~~~~~~
Posts: 2345 - Karma: 2,104
With our history with the draft if they tried to implement that again they better have a damn good reason.
Mar 12 2012 10:52PM
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564
The only reason I would support a reinstatement of the draft is if it is for the reason of more rotations back home for guys. Keep troop levels the same but shorten their tours to allow them to come home more often. I'm not a psychologist by any means and I may be completely wrong but I wouldn't be surprised if being able to come home would prevent people from snapping like the guy that did this over the weekend.
Mar 12 2012 10:54PM
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~~~~~~~~
Posts: 2345 - Karma: 2,104
OR we just lessen our current numbers out there, because there is no dire need for their presence.
Mar 12 2012 10:57PM
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TheRightCoast
Posts: 314 - Karma: 4
Or both, if less troops are there then you will have more troops that you could rotate in more often.
Mar 12 2012 11:06PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147
Albeit slowly, I think we're working on this.
Mar 12 2012 11:07PM
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~~~~~~~~
Posts: 2345 - Karma: 2,104
Yeah exactly.
Mar 12 2012 11:14PM
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~~~~~~~~
Posts: 2345 - Karma: 2,104
It's a shame we don't fight for a little more urgency with this, for our troops across the globe.
Mar 12 2012 11:17PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Best post in this thread.
Mar 12 2012 11:31PM
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Astomp
Posts: 10090 - Karma: 344
Agree slightly to this. But just a wee bit. I'm not crazed at all from my tour but a few buddies of mine are. Spark notes of my time...

I land at my little fob 2200 at night and go to the little tent of an aid station my fellow medics work at. Low and behold an afghan missing both legs bleeding every where. My first thing I saw. Few weeks later 8year old crushed by a rocket femur sticking out of his leg. Someone died while taking them to the the HLZ. mine fields. Yuk. But I'm great now.

My good bud first patrol out had a US soldier die in his arms. Him done. Brain fried.

It's not the time your there. It is the events and how you handle them. It's your mental toughness, personal courage, ability to cope, and spiritual being whether it's religious or just your own thing. Those are the characteristics, traits, and ideas that break and cause melt downs.
Mar 12 2012 11:43PM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,682
Where were you?
Mar 13 2012 12:17AM
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Astomp
Posts: 10090 - Karma: 344
Arghandab river valley August 10-11. I was a medic for a small kill and recon team.
Mar 13 2012 12:20AM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,682
Black Hearts?
Mar 13 2012 1:20AM
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Dr.Gnar
Posts: 896 - Karma: 197
Lolz yet again, you say "experience." Internet experience....fuck me lol
Mar 13 2012 1:49AM
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Casey
Posts: 7788 - Karma: 23,494
I was just implying that your jaded attitude is a complete joke.
Mar 13 2012 1:52AM
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ColdSmoker
Posts: 21 - Karma: 17

Then going probably isn't the best advice, is it?

If you don't like the thread just leave.

Mar 13 2012 2:04AM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627
You really are the most pathetic loser on these forums.
Mar 13 2012 7:52AM
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.Roockley.
Posts: 3857 - Karma: 4,000
i agree with most of your points

soldiers are heroes though, they are out there (for whatever reason the government wants) but they are there, keeping the taliban occupied with defending their territory as opposed to planning multiple worldwide attacks on us

there are a few documentaries to watch, channel 5 in the uk just ran a series about soldiers there, the amount of change that happens in the time they are there is amazing, and they find intel on bigger people with bigger plans
Mar 13 2012 8:22AM
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Girays_Brother
Posts: 13973 - Karma: 1,635
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1YAv_tPmho&feature=related
Mar 13 2012 1:48PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Aha. Right back at you.


And Roockley, it's not black and white to me, my point is that when taking this whole situation into account, anyone can become a hero when doing something heroic, but no one is a hero just by association, especially when it comes to fighting in wars or contributing to a war machine under one's free will.
Mar 13 2012 5:32PM
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Dr.Gnar
Posts: 896 - Karma: 197
Regardless of what defines "hero" I think all these ignorant dickheads around here should show the soldiers on deployment some fucking respect. They are putting their life on the line for YOU and it's not their jobs as infantry to question the necessity of what they do. Hell, we could have let Hitler carry out his massacre "because that stuff overseas doesn't affect us" Fuck all of who that think that way. Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq, those wars are happening for a real fucking reason, to ensure that things do not get out of hand and that YOU and YOU'RE CHILDREN have a guaranteed safe and secure world to live in. Get fucked and go do something constructive for your country.
Mar 13 2012 6:05PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147
I approve this message.
Mar 13 2012 6:22PM
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Lord.Quasimoto
Posts: 958 - Karma: 33
Didn't read half the shit posted in this thread because it would lower my IQ.

Kinda fucked - the mod who posted "they fly planes into my buildings" and stated that he only cares about events that change the gasoline price. Not trolling, really????

Scary times when you get flamed for posting news like this. Oh, my country is responsible for murdering innocient children in their homes? cool, no issue, in war time "shit happens" I dont even see why this is news.. jesus you people are fucked in the head. whats shocking is everyones level of apathy.
Mar 13 2012 6:26PM
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TheRightCoast
Posts: 314 - Karma: 4
People are getting mad for him posting things like this because it turns into shit storms.
Mar 13 2012 6:33PM
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BlackCupid
Posts: 1533 - Karma: 9
Either you have the most capricious IQ in the world, or you don't know what 'IQ' means. The latter is more likely.

Mar 13 2012 6:40PM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
1. without pearl harbor or without the alliance between germany/japan, the US were not such a lock to declare war on germany as most people make it look now. there was even a pseudo-nazi convention in new york. the war started in september 1939, more than 2 years before pearl harbor.

2. afghanistan was a blind revenge war looking for someone who was eventually found in another country and to destroy a terrorist organisation that operates in a multitude of middle-east countries.

3. libya, yeah i will just call the oil card. compare it with syria. similar from the human rights violations standpoint but yeah, people are not too concerned with it.

4. iraq II was a war based on (proven) fake information.



its not about making the world safe and secure, its about making the whole world like "us".

al-qaida literally had no chance of killing more people than those civilians who died in afghanistan. but spoiler alert: afghans are not humans for us. even if 1,000,000 were shot, noone would care. i seriously wonder how many afghans/iraqis are worth as much as a few thousand americans.





Mar 13 2012 7:29PM
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Lord.Quasimoto
Posts: 958 - Karma: 33
was that an insult? thanks for playing.
Mar 13 2012 7:41PM
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Dr.Gnar
Posts: 896 - Karma: 197
Click for larger image
Mar 14 2012 8:11AM
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ShredMasterPlus
Posts: 1159 - Karma: 807
more like 18 what a scum bag piece of shit.
Mar 24 2012 12:46AM
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corona
Posts: 12752 - Karma: 32,266
He just got charged with 17 counts of premeditated murder, 6 counts of attempted murder, and 6 counts of assault.

Death penalty is on its way.

Karma's a bitch.

He deserves it.
Mar 24 2012 1:17AM
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maxbauer67
Posts: 91 - Karma: 9
first of all, being charged with something doesn't mean that he will necessarily be punished for it. it has to go through the court systems first.

before you said anyone that kills children deserves the death penalty... i agree killing unarmed civilians in this case is wrong, but over there children and women are also fighting with weapons, so think from a soldiers point of view. just because he sees a child doesn't mean that they are not a threat.

again i am not saying that what he did was justified, but when you go on a rant on an internet forum being  ignorant and saying karma's a bitch when his ass has been over there for multiple deployments (years) while your sitting at home on your keyboard stirring up shit.


Mar 24 2012 8:44AM
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corona
Posts: 12752 - Karma: 32,266
no no, he's going to be punished. It will definitely be the death penalty. Those women and children were farmers and were no threat to him or any US citizen at all. Also, it's his choice to be over there. If he can't handle it it's his problem, not that of anyone else. Obviously there could have been better screening for those with potential mental illnesses like what he probably has, but he'll be killed for it and everything will be irie.
Mar 24 2012 11:14AM
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maxbauer67
Posts: 91 - Karma: 9
It is not his choice for being over there. It is his choice to join the Army, but then he is locked into a contract. Once in the Army, the Army tells you when and where you will go.

Almost EVERYONE in Afghanistan are farmers...... so that point is mute. We are not fighting a traditional army in uniforms, they are regular families that decide or are forced to fight for the Taliban.

I don't doubt that he will be punished, but I am not sure about the death penalty.

Saying "obviously there could have been better screening" is just straight up ignorant. First of all the US military is on a tight budget as it is and is deploying soldiers more than they really should be. By screening all these soldiers, it means less will be able to be deployed meaning less people will deploy more making the problem even worse. PTSD is a huge problem in our armed forces today trust me, but when people that have no understanding of the issue other than what CNN.com or foxnews reports it really frustrates me and makes me angry.

A group of US Army rangers were awarded silver stars on March 12th, 2012. 2 of those posthumously. Did you see any of that in the news?? No, you did not and after doing a search I could not find anything on it either.

STOP focusing on the negative of every little situation and start doing something productive for our country. If you won't go overseas and fight for our freedoms than at least do something else other than sit on a chat forum and talk down on soldiers no matter what they did.
Mar 25 2012 12:26AM
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ShredMasterPlus
Posts: 1159 - Karma: 807
If your dumb enough to join the army and not realize you could potentially be sent to war then wow wtf we have in the military. The guy joined the army by consent wasn't drafted and is their on his own will. If he can't handle it he should have just shot his damn ass in the head. What a punk anyone who justifies this is a goof
Mar 25 2012 12:39AM
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maxbauer67
Posts: 91 - Karma: 9
thats not the point...he has had multiple deployments before this one. it is not his choice whether or not his unit gets deployed again. and when the hell did i ever justify his actions??

"if he can't handle it he should have just shot his damn ass in the head." so your saying that you can handle being deployed more than you have lived stateside???? cause if not then according to your theory on military ethics, you should kill yourself.

become educated before you call me a goof.
Mar 25 2012 12:44AM
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corona
Posts: 12752 - Karma: 32,266
lost. completely lost.
Mar 25 2012 1:53AM
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ShredMasterPlus
Posts: 1159 - Karma: 807
He joined the army willingly, yea its not his choice if he gets deployed or not, but he gave that choice  up when he joined the military which is 110% his fault. If he can't handle it well shitty its his fault. He should have shot himself in the head and not killed 17 people. If you weren't justifiying his actions then ur not a goof but it sounds like you are there isn't much more to this discussion then, crazy soldier lost it and killed a bunch of innocent people for no reason. He wasn't even on a patrol or anything from what I heard. Guy should be stoned to death in the centre of Kandahar
Mar 25 2012 2:04AM
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blatt
Posts: 5584 - Karma: 3,097
Meh- I don't think he'll get the death penalty.

If his lawyer has any idea what he's doing, he'll say the shooting was a result of PTSD. A lot of people get out of a lot of stupid shit by saying they're mentally ill.
Mar 25 2012 2:13AM
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Astomp
Posts: 10090 - Karma: 344
It may end up being a little bit tougher of a trial.


"The lack of autopsies on the victims of the massacre in Afghanistan's Kandahar province is just one of many hurdles that the prosecution in this case will face once the charges become official.
Karzai doubts U.S. account of rampage Accused Afghan shooter's home life Gupta: Predatory action unusual for PTSD U.S. mission in Afghanistan 'on track'
To prove someone caused a person's death, prosecutors need a cause of death. As any fan of TV's "Law and Order," or countless other cop shows knows, that usually means an autopsy by a forensic pathologist.
But Afghanistan is a Muslim country and Islamic law dictates the dead be buried right away, usually within 24 hours. So no such post-mortem exams were possible. One Afghan minister tried to help U.S. investigators but Hajji Agha Lalai Desdageeri, a member of Parliament from Kandahar, told CNN that investigators "should take some samples of the dead bodies but (many) people gathered around this place and said, 'No this is not acceptable.'"

Decent article
http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/23/justice/afghanistan-legal-hurdles/index.html?hpt=ju_c2

I think it should be an easy trial still. I've seen similar stuff done. e.i. Video conference. I think he deserves a very severe punishment buti alsoI think it won't be as severe as it would be if it happened in the US.
Mar 25 2012 9:45AM
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