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Why Are Beacons so expensive?

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tripnip
Posts: 1882 - Karma: 482
I don't understand why they are so expensive its not like the technology is that new or revolutionary? Could some one answer this one for me?
Nov 28 2011 11:45PM
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WasnatchMonster
Posts: 176 - Karma: 128
its called capitalism
Nov 28 2011 11:46PM
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Literature
Posts: 13673 - Karma: 3,086
Yeah, $300 is a really steep price to pay for getting to come home alive after an avalanche or to save your buddy's life.

Seriously?
Nov 28 2011 11:49PM
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benyannelli
Posts: 773 - Karma: 564
cuz they know they can get people to pay it. they dont really have a choice.
Nov 28 2011 11:51PM
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tripnip
Posts: 1882 - Karma: 482
its not the question its money well spent but with that price its forcing people who cant afford that to go into the back country UN prepared (i have one and i use it every time i go into the back country)
Nov 28 2011 11:52PM
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Jwenz
Posts: 8893 - Karma: 7,633
any price is worth saving a life. yours or anothers
Nov 28 2011 11:54PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Forcing people into the backcountry...
Nov 28 2011 11:56PM
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family_vacation
Posts: 6200 - Karma: 7,841
They are not being forced to go into the backcountry. If they can't afford it and they don't have the equipment and knowledge of how to handle it, then they should stay out.
Nov 28 2011 11:57PM
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tripnip
Posts: 1882 - Karma: 482
agreed im on jr. ski patrol at vail part time and the people i meet when i give safty talks at the gates are unbelivable
Nov 28 2011 11:58PM
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Karma_Police
Posts: 2655 - Karma: 1,628
Why?  SUpply and demand.  If more people wanted them they would probably find a way to make them cheaper.  Which begs the other question you're just referencing the cheapest beacon.  Forcing people to get into the bc?  For real though a beacon isn't that expensive compared to the total amount of gear you need to have and training. 

skins, skis, touring bindings, boots, shovel, probe, avy class, list goes on.
Nov 29 2011 12:01AM
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RossB
Posts: 67 - Karma: 13
On the contrary, there has been a ton of new technology going into making the gear more reliable. Digital beacons search for a signal with more than one antenna, making them much more reliable and able to provide distance information. Also, beacons now transmit flux line signals in very specific directions, making information more reliable. A couple of new beacons even include gps. IMO $300 is not that much for a device that could very easily end up saving your life.
Nov 29 2011 12:01AM
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POW-WOW
Posts: 1464 - Karma: 46
I understand what you mean but of course you never HAVE to go into the backcountry. I really want to get into it more and beacons seem unnecessary but necessary. Backcountry is a great alternative to resorts, and it costs less in the end if you do it enough, but resort skiing can be expensive, too. I want to do both but I can't afford it so it looks like I'll be doing smaller trips into the backcountry without a beacon this year.
Nov 29 2011 12:03AM
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Avifarer
Posts: 5926 - Karma: 598
fuck beacons
i just ski around like this at all times
Click for larger image
Nov 29 2011 12:05AM
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BrightonFridays
Posts: 952 - Karma: 2,314
I think my life is worth $300. Probably not much more tho
Nov 29 2011 12:06AM
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Anathema
Posts: 21048 - Karma: 5,061
sell your $600 smartphone and buy two!
Nov 29 2011 12:08AM
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FLBP
Posts: 1794 - Karma: 310
Social darwinism, you have money, you live.
Nov 29 2011 12:20AM
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tripnip
Posts: 1882 - Karma: 482
k+ and mine us 2 years old and I paid 265 for it then. I'll wait a year or 2 then go looking at the new ones.
Nov 29 2011 12:24AM
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dave44
Posts: 11052 - Karma: 113
How much is your life worth?

Suck it up and buy it. Or don't.
Nov 29 2011 12:27AM
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griz_lee
Posts: 483 - Karma: 647
my guess is the insurance on a devise that lives depend on is pretty high. i would guess that raises the price a fair bit.
Nov 29 2011 12:33AM
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maxwell666
Posts: 554 - Karma: 20
cause there is a small market for them

and you all miss the point, If I tried to sell you a beacon for a thousand dollars would you say that its overpriced? yes. If I asked any of you whether you felt that your life was worth a thousand dollars would you agree? yes. We all know that beacons are essential to backcountry riding, you are preaching to the converted. The point is that beacons are much more expensive than they ought to be.
Nov 29 2011 12:55AM
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chicken
Posts: 6843 - Karma: 2,122
beacons are not THAT expensive. they cost less than a pair of skis and will last much longer.

Nov 29 2011 12:58AM
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blatt
Posts: 5584 - Karma: 3,097
The technology in modern beacons his pretty hi tech if you ask me; considering it's designed to save lives. Plus I consider it $300 life-saving insurance. It would be ignorant to not say the technology was revolutionary when first released.
Nov 29 2011 1:00AM
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skier_boy26
Posts: 11295 - Karma: 502
Several reasons.

1) it is essential

2) they are not made in China. BCA beacons are made in the USA. Mammut? Switzerland. Pieps? Austria.

3) this isn't like some gaming console where you can just add shit on that brings in the money. $250-$500. one time. and it can last, potentially, for many years.

3.2) small market. It isn't like they are selling Iphone numbers of transceivers.
Nov 29 2011 1:02AM
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Literature
Posts: 13673 - Karma: 3,086
Safety talks at the gate? As in you tell them what they'll need as they are leaving, or you turn them around if they don't have it?

I feel like short safety talks are a waste of time. If you don't have or know how to use your gear, it's useless, and a little chat at the gate won't do much to change an emergency situation with poor preparation.

Jr. ski patrol + part time = 1/4th of a pro patroller?


Nov 29 2011 1:07AM
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alev
Posts: 7819 - Karma: 410
$300 is not expensive for ski gear, especially a piece that would save your life. however, many people will brush this off as something they may not need, since it may seem like $300 unneccessary dollars to the untrained idiot.

not everyone is smart, and willing to spend the money on one. i personally think they should be cheaper so it will be a no brainer for people to buy one.
Nov 29 2011 1:08AM
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Dntel.
Posts: 1026 - Karma: 21
If your stance on the importance of a beacon when skiing B/C is that it is "unnecessary but necessary", you have much to learn, and I strongly, strongly suggest you educate yourself before you go on any of those smaller trips.

Beacons are always, 100% necessary out of bounds, no questions asked. I mean why wouldn't you?

I think people forget how dangerous mountains are, and how easily they can swallow you up, literally. Growing up skiing resorts and becoming a confident in your skills can cloud your understanding of how powerful the landscape is and the potential it has to kill you. In my experience, it has taken years to afford the gear and take the appropriate courses to allow me to begin travelling in the B/C, and I'm just scratching the surface. This is something I want to do for a long time, and getting a couple quick thrills for me is not a risk worth taking. This is why I have so much respect for guys like Sage and Hoji and Jeremy Jones. Those guys are real professionals, and have a real respect for the landscape.

/steps down off of soapbox.


Have fun out there, but do it right. Beacons are expensive because they are pieces of safety equipment built to incredibly high standards, not something you want to fail at a crucial moment. There are other reasons, but for me, that is reason enough.
Nov 29 2011 1:38AM
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Literature
Posts: 13673 - Karma: 3,086
This is solid advice.

BC without knowledge, tools, and a buddy with the same is roulette.
Nov 29 2011 1:54AM
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PacificRimJob
Posts: 24704 - Karma: 29,687
I read "Bacons"

Apparently I'm hungry or something...
Nov 29 2011 2:08AM
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unchyll
Posts: 4554 - Karma: 96
this
Nov 29 2011 2:15AM
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deathcookie
Posts: 1800 - Karma: 1,196
water is my life insurance and unlimited amounts cost $300 less
Nov 29 2011 2:29AM
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Boooshank
Posts: 1650 - Karma: 160
Random. Me too.
Nov 29 2011 2:45AM
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grambo
Posts: 1125 - Karma: 93
Other reasons not already brought up:

1) R&D costs on the software side

2) software and hardware validation testing - they obviously do not want buggy/malfunctioning firmware/hardware out in the field with a product like this


Nov 29 2011 2:55AM
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CrotchKiller
Posts: 9037 - Karma: 6,940
Why is every argument about quality always brought back to the fact that it is/isn't made in china?

Outsourcing does not always mean decrease in quality

Not trying to call you out at all, just something i noticed in recent threads. I agree with all the points you make, except the location of the products creation and it's relevance on the final quality.
Nov 29 2011 3:45AM
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maxwell666
Posts: 554 - Karma: 20
I think you mean russian roulette,

roulette is the gambling game where you throw a little ball on a spinning table and bet what number and colour the ball will land on. I would much rather play roulette than be in the backcountry with no gear.
Nov 29 2011 4:26AM
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bdubs
Posts: 117 - Karma: 28
I was just thinking about this the other day. Sure, there are valid points above on $300+ being very little to pay for your life, however, $300 isn't exactly a small enough number to encourage the folks who may venture out into the BC a couple times a season to be proactive about buying one.

While thats not a good reason for risking your life in the BC, unfortunately it's a reality that people will be less proactive about purchasing an expensive piece of technology if they rarely use it. Cut the price in half and you would probably get close to 2x the volumes of new purchases.

The technology in the grand scheme of things is pretty simple and if the demand was a bit higher (manditory to exit gates) the volumes would be higher and the price could go down.

If resorts had this as a manditory policy, they could help fuel higher volumes and perhaps even subsidize some of the cost. This would lead to a lower cost of operations for a resort, as I'm sure looking for people without beacons probably costs more then looking for those who have them.


Nov 29 2011 9:04AM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,141
The problem here is that people are assessing the price as if a beacon were properly classified as a piece of electronics like your phone or ipod. It is not. It is properly classified as rescue equipment. Its price isn't justified on the basis of its ability to do flashy stuff, it is designed to do one thing accurately and never ever fail, because failure probably means death. So while the "cost of your life" is kind of a cheesy way to assess this it kind of is true in that it's the main factor driving the price.
Nov 29 2011 9:20AM
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smuggs
Posts: 6561 - Karma: 1,373
why is bacon so expensive? i have been seeing some bacon for upwards of 9.99/lb. its just fuckin fat.
Nov 29 2011 9:59AM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627

Sorry man, but I'm going to call bullshit.  Sure, it's expensive but it does a TON.  How much did your cell phone cost and will it ever save your life?  How expensive are ABS bags?  How about your touring bindings, helmet, gear and skis?  Were those cheap?  The answer is it's all expensive, and the relative worth of that equpiment puts it at way more of a bargain than anything else you have in your pack. 

Going BC is expensive, and while it is on the pricey side I'll take a new Barryvox over a full 1st drop suit or something cosmetic like that- and everyone here has those.  Safety is most important when you're out there and I don't think companies like Mammut or BCA are charging too much for what these devices do on the regular.  If you can't afford one, don't go.  Common sense tells me that if they are going into the BC, they have already spent several thousand on gear and the couple hundred on a used or even new barryvox is money well spent. 

Nov 29 2011 10:48AM
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.frenchy
Posts: 18212 - Karma: 12,257

Weird me too.. I was thinking of the Line skis and was whatting until I saw your post haha.

Nov 29 2011 11:01AM
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Drail
Posts: 14011 - Karma: 10,001
THREAD JACK!

so, I've never even thought about it before, but my friend mentioned it the other day, and now I'm curious. Anyone know the recommended lifespan of an avi beacon? As in, still functional, never had issues. Always keeping the batteries fresh, etc... We've both had ours for many moons (I think I got mine like, 8 or so years ago?)... seams like a while, when I think about it - but I also see people with older pieps... then again - straight up analog would probably last longer than digital, due to it being more simplistic.

Really, I think we're both looking for an excuse to "have to" buy a Tracker2, I do find it better to work with than my Tracker, anyone know of any real information on this subject?
Nov 29 2011 11:05AM
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danbrown
Posts: 11932 - Karma: 21,775
i talked to a guy on the phone at work and he said he had used a pair of pieps successfully for like 20something years? and they still communicated with his tracker
Nov 29 2011 11:10AM
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scottishskier
Posts: 167 - Karma: 15
because they have the potential to save someones life and because they are pretty much essential to any backcountry/offpiste trip. companies can charge basically whatever they want
Nov 29 2011 11:14AM
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Lord.Quasimoto
Posts: 958 - Karma: 33
THIS.
Nov 29 2011 11:15AM
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saskskierftw
Posts: 898 - Karma: 62
If you life isn't worth spending 300 dollars on, then you must be doing something wrong.
Nov 29 2011 11:31AM
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byrne
Posts: 367 - Karma: 91
if $300 is too much. Someone start a company which sells it cheaper for the same task. I bet you cant do it. If you look at all the tech they have to put into those things, along with making sure that when some dumbass who is using one dies from something unrelated they dont get sued, its alot of money into one product. Also, your skiing, if you have the cash to spend on a set of BC skis with some skins and a 300 dollar FD suit, im pretty sure these guys can safely assume you can afford a 300 dollar beacon
Nov 29 2011 11:46AM
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Typical
Posts: 2269 - Karma: 83
Does anyone really know the cost to design and manufacture them?

Otherwise, this discussion is devoid of meaning.
Nov 29 2011 11:57AM
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djty111
Posts: 1103 - Karma: 94
#2 for sure.
Nov 29 2011 12:01PM
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Drail
Posts: 14011 - Karma: 10,001
well, that right there should pretty much slam this thread to bits. $300 for something that lasts two decades, AND is a piece of life saving equipment. well, I'll go ahead and say pay up, or shut up.

How much do you spend on your goggles, and how long do they last? How much for those gloves that you will destroy in less than a season? If you don't think the price tag on a beacon is worth it, you probably don't fully understand the true worth of the product and should probably stick to groomers.
Nov 29 2011 12:26PM
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Vinci
Posts: 701 - Karma: 1,472
If a modern smartphone would sell at the same quantities as a beacon it would probably cost you a couple grand or even more. The thing is that development and assembly costs in relation to the produced units for small batches are huge.
Nov 29 2011 12:58PM
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Drail
Posts: 14011 - Karma: 10,001
NO! BAD! if you are going to venture into the backcountry without a beacon, please stay away from anyone and everyone. If you are going to put your own life on the line, well - can't exactly stop you, but if you go out with others and risk their lives by not being able to find them if anything goes down, or if you drop into a line above a group of strangers and set a slide off burying them, and not be able to find them... that's just NOT AN OPTION! If you are anywhere near other people in the backcountry without a beacon you are putting their lives at risk just as much (if not more) then your own.


Have fun trying to get a darwin award.
Nov 29 2011 1:11PM
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POW-WOW
Posts: 1464 - Karma: 46
I meant that no one can make you have a beacon to go into the backcountry, except for some resorts, not that you don't need one. And I am pretty educated on that stuff.
Nov 29 2011 5:37PM
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