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Newschoolers Movie Project 2011/2012 Update

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S.C
Posts: 3068 - Karma: 2,281
The Newschoolers Movie Project that I am running is 100% committed for the season. I have chosen 4 people/groups that will be producing segments for this movie, and those people would be myself (out of Denver), lazf (out of Quebec), WillErickson (out of Minnesota), and Crotchkiller+Fritz_Witherbee (out of steamboat). I will keep the people of M&A updated frequently, but here is what it looks like at the moment:

15-20 mins
intro, 4 segs, & outro
possible CO park shoot collab segment
Shot entirely on DSLRs (so its gonna be good quality)
Really good group of people.

Feel free to ask any questions!
Nov 24 2011 10:37PM
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Dub_Digital
Posts: 2792 - Karma: 627
cant wait!
Nov 24 2011 10:39PM
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B1kessk1s
Posts: 953 - Karma: 691
yeah !!! lazf for quebec!!
Nov 24 2011 10:47PM
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Brock.
Posts: 5698 - Karma: 1,327
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHHAHAAAHHAHAHAHAHSAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA





no.
Nov 24 2011 10:51PM
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S.C
Posts: 3068 - Karma: 2,281
I was talking about the actual visual quality...
Nov 24 2011 10:57PM
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CrotchKiller
Posts: 9037 - Karma: 6,940
shut up
Nov 24 2011 11:17PM
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TaranItUp
Posts: 1313 - Karma: 802
When and were would the park shoot be? I wouldn't mind driving a few hours, and adding to the footage.
Nov 24 2011 11:28PM
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[evan]
Posts: 5628 - Karma: 119
I am going to Steamboat like Feb. 13th, if anybody is filming hit me up and I'd be willing to help as either a B Cam or id love to get a couple shots.
Nov 24 2011 11:40PM
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S.C
Posts: 3068 - Karma: 2,281
most likely beaver creek
Nov 24 2011 11:52PM
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thatsG
Posts: 2557 - Karma: 1,774
I'll be at beaver creek, but I suck
Nov 25 2011 12:29AM
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Dr.NS
Posts: 640 - Karma: 19
It's true, but I have little faith you have any knowledge about a reasonable replacement or anything that could fit the task better than DSLR's. I think you're jumping on the opposite of the current DSLR love train because you don't "conform to society, man" and I'm nearly certain you couldn't, and won't, offer any constructive advice or help. Mainly because you know shit all so you can't actually offer any. Grow up.
Nov 25 2011 1:22AM
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WillStart
Posts: 3955 - Karma: 3,192
?


I'd say in the hands of 4 competent filmers, DSLRs will look good. chai, crotchkiller, lazf, and willerickson all frequent m&a enough to know what to stay away from, what settings are optimal, etc.



i'm pretty surprised by how much this project was downsized, but I think that was a better choice. with how many people were trying to get in on it before, it was destined to fail. now it has a much better chance. good luck guys! if it starts coming along pretty well, you should post updates and such.
Nov 25 2011 1:25AM
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Mkvackay
Posts: 1903 - Karma: 5,460
boooo.

anyways hope this goes well. seems like a competent group of guys
Nov 25 2011 1:27AM
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[evan]
Posts: 5628 - Karma: 119
I agree with the blog idea, maybe the admins could set something up as a sort of place for you guys to put updates an any new happenings then theyd appear on the home page. thatd be sick!
Nov 25 2011 2:11AM
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Brock.
Posts: 5698 - Karma: 1,327
yeaa uhhh, no. again.

DSLRs have the absolute worst ergonomics out of any video camera I have ever used. The codec is shit, meaning that grading/correction will be a really constricted task.

Seeing as we are talking T2i, T3i, 60D, you cant just throw in "So you know its gonna be good quality", it sounds downright ridiculous. The chance of making an error with those cameras is far, far greater than using an hmc (same codec, but sexy panny gamma) or an HVX (I know DVCPRO HD files will consume your drop box exponentially more than h.246). Just because you guys have "4 competent filmers" doesn't mean they wont make mistakes, and oh will they ever behind that beautifully deceitful 3:2 1.04 million dot LCD.

DSLR=/=Quality (95% of the time)

Its really really fucking simple, Im really annoyed that you made me explain all of this. I hope you learned something Mr Dr.NS, you should stick to the scalpel next time.


Nov 25 2011 9:33AM
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S.C
Posts: 3068 - Karma: 2,281
get over it man...



GOD I forgot!!! Ploor is in the project too! He just hasn't accepted his invite to the cult so I forgot him! sorry man!
Nov 25 2011 11:02AM
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CrotchKiller
Posts: 9037 - Karma: 6,940
are you done crying?
Nov 25 2011 11:47AM
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[J_Gasper]
Posts: 2983 - Karma: 1,594
the thing is, if a DSLR is in the right hands, it will look better then an HVX or an HMC. for example, no offense to will start and his filming with his HVX, but his t2i 's picture just looks much better overall. if your comparing an fs100 or a af100 to a t3i or whatever, then yeah, those are most likely going to be better to film this project with. but knowing most filmers dont have a 5 grand body, you cannot beat the t2i, theres nothing like it in its price range.
Nov 25 2011 12:24PM
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[J_Gasper]
Posts: 2983 - Karma: 1,594
and i was using will as an example mainly because he is one of few who is amazing with both a camcorder and a DSLR
Nov 25 2011 12:26PM
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Trojan~Man
Posts: 1996 - Karma: 1,357
Sick project guys! stoked to see the final product dont give up!

haters/ppl doubting the project have no business in this thread, please just hold your tongue/fingers on this one.
Nov 25 2011 1:20PM
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JStrathern
Posts: 8747 - Karma: 1,536
A little dissapointed on the lack of a New England dedicated filmer but still stoked to see the final product
Nov 25 2011 4:09PM
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Coalescent
Posts: 4871 - Karma: 2,063
Of course using an HMC or an HVX is going to eliminate errors (from what I was able to take away from the post you made). 95% of people with an HMC40 use auto focus and many do the same with the HVX. If not they are "video" cameras for a reason which make videos easier than a DSLR.

However, there are other DSLR's that you didn't mention, mainly the GH2 which stomps on the HVX and HMC. 90% of what you said is assumptions of the filmers and assumptions of what can be produced by a DSLR. At least that's what I took of it. It doesn't seem like you had anything credible to say in your post.

I think throwing in you know it's going to be good quality is OK. The point being, I just watched some of your edits and IMO, for the WEB, a DSLR looks better when used correctly than an HVX or HMC for 90% of the videos I've seen. Again, it all comes down to the filmer and how they use the camera.
Nov 25 2011 5:02PM
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Sklar
Posts: 8863 - Karma: 31,577
I'd love to help you CO guys if you need/want it. I frequent both steamboat and vail/summit
Nov 25 2011 9:08PM
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CrotchKiller
Posts: 9037 - Karma: 6,940
ill be filming at steamboat just about all year
Nov 25 2011 10:21PM
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blatt
Posts: 5584 - Karma: 3,097
ah shit, shouldn't have declined. Kinda wanna do this now. Thought it was gonna be WAY more segs (which woulda been a clusterfuck)
Nov 26 2011 12:17AM
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brian.walker
Posts: 885 - Karma: 1,155
Real excited to see the turnout from this. Good luck everyone who is apart of the project!
Nov 26 2011 2:02AM
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WillStart
Posts: 3955 - Karma: 3,192
Why are you being such a dick about this man?

First of all, ergonomics have nothing to do with it. They are important to a camera's value, sure, but they don't affect the image quality.

Second, yes correction and grading are more restricted when using DSLR footage, but it's still very possible to get amazing grades from DSLR footage. Just gotta shoot it right.

Third, I think that we all know what Chai meant. Obviously the hands of a DSLR in any person won't mean good quality. But look at the filmers he listed; chances are, the footage will be of at least reasonably good quality.

Fourth, I'm not sure why you think an HVX is so much easier to work with and learn than a DSLR. After having my T2i for about a year, I felt like I had the camera pretty dialed and I can easily get the look I want out of it. After having used an HVX for years, I still feel like there is SO MUCH i could learn about that camera. It is a much more complex camera, and it is just as easy to produce a fucking shitty image, if not more so.

Fifth, who cares if they make mistakes? Mistakes are bound to happen no matter what camera you use. Some will be fixable, some won't. But the point is, given that they are experienced filmers, I doubt they will be making piles of disastrous mistakes. Most mistakes will probably be nothing more than under/over exposure issues that can be fixed in post. Of course it won't be as good as if it had been shot correctly in the first place, but is it really that big of a deal?

Sixth, DSLR=/=quality 100% of the time, not 95%. But then again, HVX =/=quality 100% of the time, FS100=/=quality 100% of the time, RED =/= quality 100% of the time. I could go on and on. Not sure why you have it stuck in your head that an HVX or some other more professional video camera will automatically produce a better image, but that is entirely incorrect.

Your last couple sentences make me inclined to think you are being sarcastic in some weird way, but oh well.
Nov 26 2011 9:53PM
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WillStart
Posts: 3955 - Karma: 3,192
I definitely know what you're saying (and I agree that for the price, the T2i can't be beat), but in my situation you have to take into account that I bought the T2i after the HVX, so I had much more knowledge about color, lenses, exposure, etc. when I started shooting with the T2i than I did when I was shooting with the HVX. Plus, the HVX is a complicated camera that I never really learned all the ins and outs of, whereas doing the same with a T2i is much easier. So I'm sure if I were to spend time learning all about the HVX now and experimenting, I could get a much more beautiful image, but I just never really knew exactly what I was doing. I was also using an incredibly cheap 35mm adapter and lenses, which are naturally going to look like shit compared to a DSLR. I've seen shots with an HVX+Redrock that would definitely rival if not surpass footage from a T2i.

My point is, the HVX is a camera with a lot of potential that can really produce beautiful images in the hands of somebody who understands it, images that can definitely compare to the T2i. My footage shouldn't be used as a comparison because I understand so much more about the HVX and T2i now than I did when I was shooting the HVX. Just want to make sure the HVX doesn't get a bad reputation on here because of the way my shots looked when compared to my T2i footage, there is definitely better HVX footage out there.
Nov 26 2011 10:03PM
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S.C
Posts: 3068 - Karma: 2,281
you guys, this thread was made to get everyone stoked for the movie project we're doing and keep people informed, not to argue over which camera makes the highest quality picture...
Nov 26 2011 11:48PM
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WillStart
Posts: 3955 - Karma: 3,192
it's almost inevitable that any thread created in m&a (or anywhere on NS for that matter) will turn into an almost entirely unrelated argument, especially when people feel the need to bring unnecessary hate into said threads.
Nov 26 2011 11:51PM
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WillStart
Posts: 3955 - Karma: 3,192
i would also like to point out that i was only arguing with brock, not j_gasper. i was merely trying to point out to j_gasper that i basically had no clue what i was doing back in my HVX days.
Nov 26 2011 11:54PM
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blatt
Posts: 5584 - Karma: 3,097
I mean when you state that filming entirely on dslr's translates to good quality (or when it's interpreted that way), a shit storm is guaranteed to be a brewin'
Nov 27 2011 12:49AM
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kzrstf
Posts: 2778 - Karma: 695
i like to not give a fuck about codec, color sampling and all that shit, if it looks good, its chill
Nov 27 2011 1:37AM
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technique.
Posts: 1538 - Karma: 308
this sounds sick. deff downsized a lot. its probably a good idea to start small, but id be interested in seeing more segments and more diversity in future years. so stoked on this though and can't wait to see it!

also is one person doing all the editing, or is it happening separately then being put together at the end?
Nov 27 2011 1:37AM
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CrotchKiller
Posts: 9037 - Karma: 6,940
rough separate edits with titles and color corrections done by one person at the end
Nov 27 2011 1:45AM
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technique.
Posts: 1538 - Karma: 308
sounds perfect!
Nov 27 2011 1:56AM
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WillStart
Posts: 3955 - Karma: 3,192
Yeah for sure. But while what Chai said could be interpreted like that, we all knew he meant that in the hands of those filmers, it would be good quality. In other words, as long as this project works out, should be sick! Definitely a solid crew of filmers
Nov 27 2011 3:38AM
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[J_Gasper]
Posts: 2983 - Karma: 1,594
right. i did not intend to start and argument with him at all, and im for sure not trying to give the HVX a bad name, im just pointing out that it could be done just as easily with a DSLR. theres no need for him to create hate on a project that everyone is completely stoked on. i just really wanted to pitch in my 2 cents, didnt mean to start anything.
Nov 27 2011 8:52AM
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Brock.
Posts: 5698 - Karma: 1,327
DID YOU WAKE UP THIS MORNING WITH A BIG BOWL OF CRACK FOR BREAKFAST?

If you cant hold the camera straight for more than a second your footage will look like utter garbage! By far the biggest issue with these cameras.




Nov 27 2011 11:12AM
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Brock.
Posts: 5698 - Karma: 1,327
nvm, you probably just didn't know I meant by ergonomics in relation to the camera...
Nov 27 2011 11:17AM
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hollygrove
Posts: 7845 - Karma: 93
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sure you have a point, but jeez stop being such a twat about it
Nov 27 2011 1:01PM
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blatt
Posts: 5584 - Karma: 3,097
Lol handheld shots...
Nov 27 2011 1:08PM
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TWoods
Posts: 10014 - Karma: 8,385
So you shoot with a rig. Shut the fuck up man, you know what he meant. Start the discussion somewhere else if you're seriously that passionate about it. Everyone knows what the downfalls of DSLRs are.

There's a whole thread in M+A about you, have you seen it?

Here's a link:
https://www.newschoolers.com/ns/forums/readthread/thread_id/658781/
Nov 27 2011 2:09PM
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Brock.
Posts: 5698 - Karma: 1,327
Protip: you are filming skiing for fucks sake. People sliding down goddamn hills.

Any truly good ski video will have no more than 20% tripod shots, everyone knows that...

...Oh wait, they don't. Thats why I find it painful to watch pretty much every ski edit that you people of M/A churn out these days. Idiots these days with there "Rigs" and there Stupid matte boxes on their T2i. IT'S CALLED A LENSE HOOD.

And yes, I probably hurt Twood's feeling for offering my harsh but personal opinion again, consequently ending up in another ban.


Nov 27 2011 3:00PM
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blatt
Posts: 5584 - Karma: 3,097
You couldn't be more wrong...
Nov 27 2011 3:13PM
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eheath
Posts: 61107 - Karma: 118,279
Please point me in the direction of someone in M&A that uses a matte box with their dslr...
Nov 27 2011 3:16PM
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Brock.
Posts: 5698 - Karma: 1,327
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Nov 27 2011 3:16PM
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eheath
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Nov 27 2011 3:27PM
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Brock.
Posts: 5698 - Karma: 1,327
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Nov 27 2011 3:44PM
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Jeff_Lo
Posts: 5809 - Karma: 263
I'm not the biggest DSLR fan, but I will say this, you'd be astonished at some of the movies your all so in love with had a ton of DSLR shots in them.

They can look good if shot properly.  Every camera with a CMOS sensor has some rolling shutter. 

If shot right with correct color profiles (which many even pro companies don't do or know little to nothing about) giving you the most information DSLR footage can get closer to that of other cameras. 

Chai, if any of your shooters or you are unaware of this info please PM me, i'd be more than happy to pass along some info and successful Color profiles I used to give you better looking footage with more info in post.  It will greatly increase the overall quality of your picture, as well as information in the image itself. 

But this does not go without saying while many use DSLR's and hide it well, it doesn't take away from there shortcomings.   I personally love the ergonomics of the DSLR design.  I think it works well with certain platforms.  In the right hands they can give you a good image.  I'm guessing you plan on finishing for web, which is fine.  True resolution is the only real drawback I see in DSLR's (if you know how to shoot them).  Yes audio as well (again if your used to working with other cameras this isn't a problem). 

I loved my 7D, it served a great purpose, i'm curious to see what a NS crew can do.  I'm glad this is alot more organized before.

Chai if you need any assistance or have any questions on getting those DSLR's to shine please message me, I'd be glad to help!
Nov 27 2011 4:07PM
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WillStart
Posts: 3955 - Karma: 3,192
damn dude, the fuck is your problem recently? your m&a cred has gone from reasonably high to basically 0 really fucking fast.



When was the last time you saw somebody (who cared about their footage) shoot handheld with a DSLR? you'd have to be a fucking moron to do that. the last time I shot handheld was because i literally was not allowed to bring a tripod or glidecam (this was my south america trip 1.5 years ago). Any filmer who cares about getting a good shot from a DSLR is going to be using stabilization whenever possible, be it a glidecam or tripod.

So yes, I did know what you meant by ergonomics. But I just assumed that anybody seriously shooting with a DSLR would be using stabilization, therefore making the ergonomics less of an issue.


And let me get this straight: are you saying that an edit with more than 20% tripod shots will suck? ha! try telling that to Landis, or any other filmmaker who knows their shit, even if just a little bit. what's the alternative? you want an edit that is almost entirely glidecam?


PS I'm sorry you got butthurt when everybody shut you down, but try to be a little more mature about it.

Nov 27 2011 4:17PM
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