Why the neutrinos arent travelling faster than light.

of course. we will never see all there is to be seen. but some laws are so irrefutable that you cant mess with them, like causality

yeah, time is something everybody grows up with a misconception of.  we usually think of time moving forward at a constant speed,  grasp the reality that space and time are the same thing , then you can make crazy conclusions, such as knowing that say 100 light years away, your great grandparents are very much still alive etc...

I think in the case of the mirror your using an example that wouldnt work be plausible for what we are trying to determine.

Back to an example of a star blowing up and blowing up another star. Someone said that if information or particles traveled faster than light than the second star would blow up before the first star blew up. That would be true if you were analyzing it from perception of the viewer, much like you said our perceived reality.

Think of it this way. Star 1 blows up. Light and a particle that is going to cause planet 2 to blow up are both headed towards planet 2. Now all the light is is the image of what is, not the particle itself. But the particle its self is what will cause planet 2 to blow up.

Now the particle is moving faster than light. The particle exists but it has no image to the observer on planet 2. Yet that particle still carries the energy to destroy. So the observer just wont have any idea that he is going to blow up, he will just blow up. Then the light that is the image will get there so if planet 2 blew up yet the observer could stay there than he would see a random explosion than he would see the cause of that explosion arrive.

So in a way its opposite of what you are saying. For the mirror thing you would be brushing your teeth but the mirror would only show you that you are standing there. and once you are done brushing your teeth then the mirror would show you that you are brushing your teeth.

Instead of seeing the future before it happens. The future happens before there is any image or reality to the thing that is happening to you. Its an effect with no reality of the cause, yet the effect will still happen.

Care to explain why? The laws of physics work the same way backwards as they do forwards. If time and space are the same thing than why do we always have to see the cause before the effect if both are just two different "locations" in space time?

Wait dub post but:

We only believe our laws are irrefutable. But anybody care to look up how many compounds have been made with the inert/noble/rare gasses? I wouldn't too surprised if we find a helium compound or even a neon one at some point.

You can't forget that (for the most part) computers and sensors can only detect what we design them to detect, though I guess that there are examples of programs learning from what they've 'observed' and altering themselves in accordance, basically.

There are certainly instances where they've picked up something that they weren't intended to, resulting in a host of unplanned discoveries, which is really cool! (semirelated: pretty crazy that a number of highly explosive materials developed for the World Wars also turned out to be incredibly powerful plant fertilizers (lime and ammonium nitrate, to start). Won't go into the unintended consequences of the use of those fertilizers.).

I have absolutely no experience with physics, etc except for reading Einstein's Dreams (definitely read it if you're into physics, space, time, cause it's soo crazy to see his theories clearly illustrated--such an amazing mind) but I find it really difficult to believe that there's nothing that can move faster than light. There's a lot of evidence concluding this, but I'm constantly skeptical, continuously questioning everything--it's awesome when something is proven beyond undeniable doubt, but I love the idea of the unexplainable and the fact that there is ALWAYS something unknown, yet to be discovered, whether it was originally an inkling of a thought, or something we're completely taken aback by.

shpiel

i am currently embarking on the vast journey of physics at school. threads for when i start getting into this

Spacetime does have ripples, they're caused by two massive objects orbiting eachother. You can imagine it like an underwater fan. As the two blades spin they distort the water and create waves. The effects of the ripples have been observed in systems where pulsars are orbiting eachother and where pulsars are orbiting black holes. There are currently projects going on trying to detect the waves as they propagate through the Earth causing it to contract and expand back out as they travel through the planet. Sadly it appears that neutrinos have to put up with the ripples just like the rest of us hadronic matter.

oops. faulty equipment!

http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2012/02/breaking-news-error-undoes-faster.html

its like this i didnt put it straight before.

normal reality, you look at a far away mirror and behind you the bathroom catches fire.

you dont realize this untill its too late and your house burns down, and you make a post on ns asking for stickers

neutrino mirror shows you the fire behind you in time for you to put it out.

so you could violate relativity/causality/determinism by using the neutrino mirror, because in order to keep the laws intact, your house would burn down and you would post on ns asking for stickers.

yeah thats why they found out it was an experimental error, otherwise we would have to abandon relativity

your harping on a big issue. there is no such thing as simultinaeity from different observers perspective.

depending on ur location in space, obsrver a could see event x happen before event y and observer b could observe event y happen before event x

your location is included in the overall idea of causality.and the past and future do not exist in normal interpretation at a location.

and yes the laws of physics do work the same backwards as forwards. you cannot change the past, just as u cant change the future. free will is the adult version of santa claus

Exactly, There is a faulty connection in the GPS card that threw off the the experiment 60 nanoseconds... So everybody can rest safe, Einstein's theories are still correct and God has not ultimatly become proven.  They will retry the experiment later to confirm.

http://m.yahoo.com/w/news_europe/faulty-wire-error-blamed-faster-light-particles-233455135.html?orig_host_hdr=uk.news.yahoo.com&.intl=gb&.lang=en-gb

But the thing is is that a neutrino doesnt tell you anything only the light/image tells you. So the "neutrino mirror" wouldnt show you anything and your house would burn down.

Just because something arrives before light doesnt mean that you are "seeing" the future you might just be getting bombarded by particles without out knowing it.


Much like in my example of the planets. Planet B would blow up after planet A but planet B would blow up without ever knowing. It would just like spontaneuosly explode with no visual explanation.

Well shit I didn't know that. That all makes sense now.

case closed

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/jun/08/neutrino-researchers-einstein-right

Do any of you in here have any idea of what the fuck you're talking about, or are you all making your grand theories off of conjecture?

It was a mechanical error. Just let the thread die.