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2012 marker griffons?

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mountainviper
Posts: 1931 - Karma: -3

Does anyone know if marker did anything to address that early release issue on the toe of the 11' griffs for the 2012 version?

Jun 13 2011 5:53PM
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thomjphilly
Posts: 181 - Karma: 10
Take it to your local dealer, they can take care of it if it is a warranty issue.
Jun 13 2011 5:56PM
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mountainviper
Posts: 1931 - Karma: -3
yeah I dont have the 11's but I know peeps who do and I've heard a few times about the early release issues in the toe.  I was considering buying the 12' griffs but only if they fixed that issue and replaced the plastic with metal like the jester.  If all they did was slightly better graphics then I'll steer clear.  I'm just tryin to avoid the jesters cause they cost more, I dont need a din higher than 13, and theyre green.  Color wouldnt normally be an issue but I'm putting them on the opus and the red and green will look like a christmas tree comin down the hill....haha
Jun 13 2011 6:07PM
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broto
Posts: 9039 - Karma: 25,658
literally the only difference between jesters and griffons is 2 din places and the metal. you're saying you would buya 12 din jester. and if they put more metal in the griffon it would cost more than it does now, defeating the purpose of you just not getting jesters.

lol
Jun 13 2011 8:30PM
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rozboon
Posts: 1642 - Karma: 868
In 2012 the Royal bindings (including Squires) have adjustable toe height, the AFD is on a ramp like it always was on the Duke/Baron. This should solve the toe slop when using thin-toed boots like Dalbellos and Full Tilts. Also the 2010/11 already had the slight re-design in the toe that removes the play in the 'pylon' arrangement that sometimes allowed the toe to kind of fold towards the tip allowing vertical toe release.

The base plate is slightly redesigned too. I don't know if the mounting pattern is the same.

The Jester looks like it's made of plastic although I'm 99% sure it's still metal. I think they just used a thicker paint perhaps?
Jun 13 2011 8:49PM
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mountainviper
Posts: 1931 - Karma: -3

Thanks rozboon.  That was exactly what I was wondering.  So I guess I can get away with the griffs then?  I'm not huckin double rodeos off 50' cliffs so I def don't need the jester's din max or the added wieght of the bigger spring.  Unless you wouldn't recommend that binding  on the opus for some other unknown reason?....haha...thanks again

Jun 13 2011 9:13PM
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mountainviper
Posts: 1931 - Karma: -3
theres also the whole added wieght from the bigger spring and all that too.....plus the price difference is pretty dramatic.
Jun 13 2011 9:15PM
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broto
Posts: 9039 - Karma: 25,658
you aren't going to feel the weight for shit when they're on your feet. you should be able to perform with moderately heavy skis on at any time, that's just part of being an advanced skier and why beginner's skis are so small.
Jun 13 2011 9:37PM
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mountainviper
Posts: 1931 - Karma: -3
W W What? Dude jus stop. Some of the most badass skiers I know are on tiny little park skis. Has nothin to do with ability. You have missed the point entirely and are continuing to comment for the sole reason of presenting your superior knowledge. The question was answered and not by you, so thanks for the waste of time.
Jun 13 2011 10:08PM
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broto
Posts: 9039 - Karma: 25,658
yes and there are some on huge ass park skis as well. weight shouldn't matter. although yes it is easier to do certain tricks with certain skis, you can get used to the weight unless they are a foot above or below your head and the bindings have 2 +/- pounds difference.
Jun 13 2011 10:15PM
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rozboon
Posts: 1642 - Karma: 868
Take a step back for a sec - how much do you weigh, how tall are you, how old are you (if you don't mind saying), what's your boot sole length, are you hucking big sh!t full stop and how are your knees?

Griffon's probably fine for you, but putting it on a ski like the Opus that you might want to hang onto for a few years... you may want to just cough up for the Jester now since it will grow with your skiing. I'm loosely assuming you're not real old or real big.


Jun 13 2011 10:28PM
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mountainviper
Posts: 1931 - Karma: -3
Well I'm mid 30s....6' and 195lbs...I've been skiing for like 20yrs...I've rode as long as 205s and ain't scared to admit I went through the skiboard phase way back when....currently on cryptos 178 with a look jib px 12 @ 12 and have never unintentionally come outta my bindings...used to ride k2 pub enemies with a marker m12 which was insanely heavy and gave me all kindsa swing weight issues...I am aware that the royals are much different but I've never owned them so that was why I was asking.
Jun 13 2011 11:06PM
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mountainviper
Posts: 1931 - Karma: -3
But yeah I was thinkin the same thing as far as gettin the jesters....I was even wondering if I should say screw minimalism and get the duke in case I ever do get into skinning...I intend on keeping the opus for a while but I also have every intention of making it a quiver of one....I've got a sorta unique style or at least a direction for next year and after alot of research I'm fairly certain that the opus is gonna do what I want....still open to suggestion on a binding and boots for that matter...I'm currently on SPK pros and they're too sloppy outside of the park...not sure that I need a 120 but I'm currently considering the hawx 120....boot size is 28.5 and I'm a low volume foot.
Jun 13 2011 11:16PM
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zbphoto
Posts: 7789 - Karma: 12,037
get jesters. You ideally want to be in between the max and min dins, but not close or on either. (Eg, if i'm a 6, I don't want a 6-16 binding, I want a 4-12.)
Jun 13 2011 11:18PM
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mountainviper
Posts: 1931 - Karma: -3
Dude I have been sayin that forever but every local shop keeps tellin me I'm wrong and the new bindings are designed to do max din....that's what so tough about tryin to get new gear....someone will tell ya one thing then someone else completely contradicts it...haha
Jun 13 2011 11:24PM
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BlakeG
Posts: 1450 - Karma: 1,030
a different question....????? i have the older griffons that dont have the black toe piece, its the one with the white track that you can move forward and back aswell as you can slide the heel piece back why did they change that and when did they change that also how much else have they changed them since then??

somebody plz help +K for legit answers plz help cuz im wondering if it is really worth it to get new ones
Jun 13 2011 11:25PM
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mountainviper
Posts: 1931 - Karma: -3
Thanks for the thread hijack there blake
Jun 13 2011 11:30PM
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BlakeG
Posts: 1450 - Karma: 1,030
ok then get it delted and ill make my own one lol
Jun 13 2011 11:32PM
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rozboon
Posts: 1642 - Karma: 868
That's a Demo Griffin. I assume you bought some ex rentals or ex demos.


OP, you're about the same build as me, go the Jester. In particular for the metal A-frame on the heel, that's meant to be pretty much the point of weakness on them. There's a big difference between the release-direction forces of a 140lb kid skiing like a madman at 10 DIN and the general abuse of a 200lb dude putting force on the binding in directions that won't make it release, even at 7 or 8 DIN.

Don't get the Duke, the Opus probably isn't much chop for touring due to the softness and long rocker profile.
Jun 14 2011 12:12AM
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rozboon
Posts: 1642 - Karma: 868
Just spotted, you're riding a PX12 at 12? Gnarly. Go for the Jesters for sure. You'll get a way cleaner release from a 16 din binding at 12 than a 12/13 din binding at 12.
Jun 14 2011 12:16AM
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mountainviper
Posts: 1931 - Karma: -3
Yeah I was riding the px 12 @ 11 and never had an early release but then everyone kept tellin me to max it to be sure against my better judgment of knowing not to max the spring...haha
Jun 14 2011 7:40AM
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Pipe_Munky
Posts: 10887 - Karma: 2,165
there was no toe slop issue with Full Tilt and Dalbello boots. all ski boots have a standard toe/height across the board to ensure safety of the user. any issues with toes moving around is because of wear on the front of the boot.

the only real difference between the the 11/12 griffon and previous griffons is the toe height adjustment and it now has a din of 13.

the jester is not all metal. the heel housing and toe wings are magnesium making it a stronger and more durable binding. the difference is not thicker paint.
Jun 14 2011 9:18AM
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mountainviper
Posts: 1931 - Karma: -3
So pipe monkey what binding would you recommend for the opus?....I'm open to any suggestions.
Jun 14 2011 10:14AM
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rozboon
Posts: 1642 - Karma: 868
First: Older Jesters/Griffons have an issue where the toe can slightly tilt forward due to imperfect tolerances in the toe-piece. Go find an early one (you can tell them because the rear part of the toe base is not spiked like the new ones), put the ski hard on a bench and pull forward on the toe. This allows the toe-piece to release the boot vertically (and inadvertently) when a lot of pressure is put on the tails. The new ones are slightly redesigned in this area and do not move forward.

I'm well aware of the bits on a Jester that are metal and those that aren't. What I was trying to say was that the new ones FEEL like they're made of plastic. I've picked one up, fondled it a bit, licked the heel thing to see if it was cold (metal). They appear to have used a thicker paint (possibly to stop chipping?) and it makes the metal parts both look and feel, at first appearance, to be made of plastic.

As for standard toe? ISO DIN specifies 19mm +/- 1mm on the toe-height - the binding hence has to accommodate a 20mm toe while a boot can be as low as 18mm, leaving 2mm of slop at the interface. Amplify this by the length of a person and it's quite a lot of movement.

Jun 15 2011 1:48AM
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Chompo.
Posts: 4952 - Karma: 88
You NEVER want to max the spring. You generally dont want to be within 2 of the max din. For example on a px12 the most you want to be riding at is 10. Sure you may not have pre release problems but they may not come off at all maxed, and its bad for the bindings. You also should not be at the very bottom of the din range. But if i were to recommend you a binding it would either be the salomon sth 16 or rossingol/look fks/p 18's. The minimum on the rossi's is 8 and the minimum on the solly's is 9. You will be able to fit their din range appropriately and get solid clean releases when you need to. Both of these bindings are also made of metal and will there fore be much more durable and last longer than any marker binding.
Jun 15 2011 4:37PM
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snasty
Posts: 167 - Karma: 27
would griffs or jesters be better on fujas? Im only like 130 now, but im 15 and still growing alot.
Jun 26 2011 10:26PM
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mountainviper
Posts: 1931 - Karma: -3
I'd say the griffs for your weight from what I've been researchin...unless your bombin 100' gaps or have a tendency to break bindings. If your real rough on your gear than get the jester.
Jun 26 2011 10:37PM
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snasty
Posts: 167 - Karma: 27
yeah ill prob go with griffs. I do cliffs and steeps but nothing insane
Jun 26 2011 10:48PM
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mountainviper
Posts: 1931 - Karma: -3
Yeah I asked a buddy at a local shop and he said he's only had one griff come back and that was cause the kid was jibbin some concrete ledge and jacked the heel piece on the ledge
Jun 26 2011 10:56PM
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Pipe_Munky
Posts: 10887 - Karma: 2,165
Interesting.
After several years working in a shop both as a tech and a boot fitter I've never once heard of this issue and we sold probably 40-50 griffon/jesters each year they've been made. Not one problem aside from the occaisonal broken heel on a griffon.

Try using a brand new boot without any wear.
Jun 27 2011 9:26AM
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mountainviper
Posts: 1931 - Karma: -3
Hey pipe monkey.....those broken heelpieces ya see on the griffs.... Was that from like a big landing? Or hard abuse? I know the griffs have alot of plastic. I just ordered them and I'm kinda concerned. I've been ridin on px12ti's with no issues. It's a cheaper binding so I kinda figure yeah I'll be fine on the griff. Now I'm second guessin that maybe I never had an issue with the looks is because they're titanium. I don't bomb monster cliffs and I take care of my equipment but I do ride hard and aggressive. Hope those griffs hold up!
Jun 27 2011 11:19AM
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Pipe_Munky
Posts: 10887 - Karma: 2,165
you should be ok.
Marker is pretty good about replacing that kind of stuff under warranty. most of the ones i saw were pretty beat up but still looked after
Jun 27 2011 12:14PM
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mountainviper
Posts: 1931 - Karma: -3
Yeah warranty and all that is good...I'm more concerned with tearin ass through the trees and having a binding break and lose a ski at an inopportune time ya know? Lol
Jun 27 2011 3:22PM
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RyandaGod
Posts: 2842 - Karma: 43
the random heelpiece braking happened to me while skiing groomers, all I could think about after was what if I had been in trees or something... Anyways long story short if your a decent size dont invest in a plastic binding. Get some Fks/pivots, Tyrollia/4frnt/head, or middle end px's...
Jun 27 2011 3:25PM
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rozboon
Posts: 1642 - Karma: 868
I just took some photos of this exact thing with a fresh-out-of-the-box pair of FT Dropkicks and an older model Jester, I'll post if you're really that interested.

But it's very easy to see - just get a ski with the old-style Royal toe-piece (doesn't have the spikes at the rear of the base plate) and pull upwards and forwards on the toe wings. The whole top half of the binding moves a good few mm back and forth, and it increases with wear on the binding because the movement gradually wears away the plastic where the binding fits together.
Jun 27 2011 5:21PM
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