some educated reasons...

BANDWAGON



dont worry about what i can or cant do, worry about what you cant do to me

Day 82:

It's the cool thing to do.

(source: Mtv.com, rockthevote.com, moveon.org, meetup.com, comedeycentral.com, michaelmoore.com)



Politicaly Active Since 1992

Drivin that Train

give me 5 reasons why in your own words



dont worry about what i can or cant do, worry about what you cant do to me

uh I played this Anti Bush Emo Game from www.emogame.com and that pretty much swayed my opinion because its really informative. I can't vote though so it doesn't really matter.




patj

kerry is just gonna screw the country over and be fag and pull out of iraq and afgahnistan and let the terrorists take over. vote bush or ill attack ur moms bush.


I hate Liberals.

Member 6834

Bristol Crew Represent

I think the funniest thing about this thread is someone just called Edwards/Kerry the hope for our country!




Pete is currently sulking around Mt. Hood, shooting with Poor Boyz Productions and hitting on Kristi Leskinen. She hates guys, Pete lamented, so it’s not going good. Apparently Canada isn’t the only thing that’s tough for Pete to get into.
-kamikaze

^yes


I hate Liberals.

Member 6834

Bristol Crew Represent

What good is Bush going to do then?? state your facts kids...




patj

hes gonna shoot kerry and edwards while they are having sex in his effort to ban gay marriages


I hate Liberals.

Member 6834

Bristol Crew Represent

How does Kerry votes on issues?

Flips a Coin





-People say marijuana ruins your life, I just say I take the scenic route-

I love that terrorism is the biggest issue in this campaign.. it just shows how god damn ignorant most of you are. yes, it's a horrible thing, but wow... 3000 people died in one attack, maybe 10,000 in the past 10 years or so worldwide, at most 50,000 worldwide. do you realize millions die from aids every year? bush is not supporting an international aids fund because the countries don't agree with his abstinence (for you dumb asses, that means no sex before marriage) before safe sex policy. That's not even looking into cancer, car crashes, tobacco deaths, and a hell of lot of other things which kill people.

I'm not saying terrorists are good, but I think it's sad that bush and his cabinet (IE Karl Rove) have decided that it needs to be an issue. so they created a war, and a system to try and scare us into believing it. I think it's stupid what they've done.

so in my own words, 5 reasons not to vote for bush.

1. he is ruining education with his 'initiatives' and 'no child left behind' shitty ideas.

2. his Christian principles he is trying to run the country with piss me off. He is trying to get schools to NOT teach about safe sex, and instead just no sex. does he realize that people, regardless of what taught, will have sex before marriage?

3. he runs the country for big business. I've said it since day one, everything he does benefits big business. his new 'forest fire prevention policy' consists of lifting regulations so companies can clear cut more with no problems.

4. he is ruining scientific research that could benefit the world over. Not just stem cell research, but other things as well. he consistently ignores scientific research if it disagrees with what he believes.

5. He is a moron who should never have been in the white house to begin with. He didn't win the popular vote, and even his parents never thought he would get in. they publicly stated that they 'knew we'd get back to the white house, we just never thought it would be with George.'
-Pat Melvin
WBP|films


'Who's not 18 yet? What? LA LA LA LA LA LA! I can't hear you.' - Jay

melvs so far you've made the only intelligent post to this thread, and i thank u for taking the time to do that, the rest of you who actually care about who wins this election, quit bitching about who's a fag and who's not, quit discrediting ppls arguments because they're not 'original' and go do some research for yourself and make up your own mind. personally, i think bush is jeopardizing the future of our nation, and i have my reasons, many of them include the ones melvs listed above. if all of you spent an hour of the time you're on NS and actually researched online some of the facts about kerry and bush, and that means getting views from both sides and making up your own mind, there would be a lot less pointless bitching going on, and many of you would realize how scary bush is

They call it terrorism for a reason, they don't just call it suicide bombing or hijacking but terrorism. It doesn't matter how many people die in the attack, it is the fact that there was an attack in the first place. The idea behind terrorism is that it causes huge amounts of fear in people, not that it kills the people. So, while it may have only killed 3000 people it scared the shit out of 280 million. Would running two planes into a couple of buildings do that much damage to the world's dominate superpower, no, but that wasn't the tactic they are using. When you are arguing the point of terrorism you can't use just concrete numbers because that really doesn't show the entire impact of terrorism, but the real impact is less demostrative.

1. Talk to your states about education, the president is not in charge of it. He can have his initiatives and what have you but it really boils down to your state and local governments. If you have a bone to pick about your schools, look to someone who actually holds the power.

2. I have no problem with his Christian principals, but I do agree that no sex ed is a bit of a problem. But, guess what, the only safe sex is abstinence whether you like it or not.

3.Welcome to capitalism, get used to it. Everything that you touch is big buisness, all the dollars you get are from are from big buisness. It provides jobs and money so that we have a good economy. It makes it so you aren't paying out of the ass for goods and services. When he helps big buisness he helps more then just the CEOs, but he helps every employee, and that is just about everyone.

4.Scientific research, were going to Mars.

5.Higher SAT scores then Kerry.

Just a little something to wrap your head around



Politicaly Active Since 1992

Drivin that Train

just a question about terrorism. how many people on this site wake up every day and think to themselves, oh shit what if my school gets bombed today by terrorists? maybe its just me, but it seems doesn't seem like many people are really afraid for their everyday lives. besides, being afraid is what the terrorist want. if you let them scare you into taking away your individual liberties (i.e. passing the Patriot Act), the terrorists have already accomplished their goal

vote for kerry,hes a sox fan
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'You can't argue with idiots, they drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.'

'so basically i lost my penis trying to have sex with my cat' Misty7



'Who's not 18 yet? What? LA LA LA LA LA LA! I can't hear you.'~Jay aka rebel

Sorry, but nothing that extreme, but there was a general fear for a long time. The travel industry took a huge hit after 9-11, people were afraid to fly. No, people aren't afraid to go to school or something like that, but for a while there an underlying sense of fear that did make people a little unwary for a while. Regardless, I was just pointing out that the goal of terrorism is not to take human life but to create fear. Also, some times it is nessisary to sacrifice a little for protection. Am I saying that the patriot act is totally pure in its intentions, no, but I am saying that the same time of deal would be passed under any other president and Attorney General in the same situation.



Politicaly Active Since 1992

Drivin that Train

5 reasons I'm against the Bush administration.

Reason 1: Lied to the country on a plethora of different issues. I already explained how, if you don't remember, use the search feature.

Reason 2: Invasion of Iraq undertaken illegally, and did not accomplish the goals set out. My belief is simply that just because something good happened as a result does not make a wrong action right. If you want to argue with that, this is going to get long.

Reason 3: Religionization of politics is bad for the country. That's a fact. There's a reason that separation of church and state is a general principle. Anyone who uses bigotry as a rallying cry for votes loses points in the ethics department, and because of the other reasons on this list, he's already in the negative.

Reason 4: Actually thought that he had the right to suspend Geneva convention rules and authorize tortures. Also, concluded that it was his right to 'interpret' international law as he saw fit, and that no court could contradict him during wartime. I wouldn't trust someone like that in a position of power, much less THE position of power. And maybe it's not all him, but it's certainly his administration. I want them all out.

Reason 5: As melvs said, running things FOR big business. And giving corporations unfair advantages is not at all the same thing as recognizing their importance in society. Extreme libertarianism is inconsistent.

Finally, freedom is not a ready made commodity. Just because there's no restriction preventing you from doing something, like suceeding in life, does not mean that you're 'free' to do it. There must be societal conventions in place to allow for it, and these societal conventions are not high priorities of this administration. Cheap fear tactics should not overshadow the fact that Bush (by which i mean his entire staff) is bad for the US, and more importantly, bad for the world.

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In a haze
A stormy haze
I’ll be around
I’ll be loving you
Always
Always

Here I am
And I’ll take my time
Here I am
And I’ll wait in line
Always
Always...

Jd, you put religon and bigotry together in the same breath, you know that religon is not based on bigotry and that bigotry is not even an element of religon. Sure there are bigots who proclaim to be christians but there are also bigots who proclaim to be liberal atheists. Please differentiate between people who ascribe to a certian belief and bigots, do not lump them together in blanket generalizations that will not pan out.



Politicaly Active Since 1992

Drivin that Train

Expand that point. The religious principles he proposes as general national ones to be defended by government are not necessarily those of everyone. Not everyone in the US is a part of his religion, and therefore, he is failing to represent a large part of his country by ignoring their interests, and discriminating against another large part by implying that they're morally wrong without cause.

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In a haze
A stormy haze
I’ll be around
I’ll be loving you
Always
Always

Here I am
And I’ll take my time
Here I am
And I’ll wait in line
Always
Always...

Yet, that is not bigotry, which is hating someone for who they are and the beliefs they ascribe to (not a perfect def.). I do not belive in legislating morality though, CS Lewis gave a perfect example against it saying that it would be all fine and dandy if it was Christianity but if it was Islam then he would not be able to go to the pub and have a beer. Yet, I do believe in protecting religon, i.e. opposition to gay marrige. This is not, in my humble opinion denying others rights, but protecting those who do find marrige sacred. I believe that gays should be able to enter into a union (not marrige) and be able to have all the same rights, but this should not infringe on the rights of people who do belive that marrige is more the a legal contract.

So tell me, what has Bush done that is bigotry?



Politicaly Active Since 1992

Drivin that Train

That would be why I redefined 'bigotry' to 'discrimination' in my above post. I mistakenly used them interchageably when they are not.

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In a haze
A stormy haze
I’ll be around
I’ll be loving you
Always
Always

Here I am
And I’ll take my time
Here I am
And I’ll wait in line
Always
Always...

Fine, what has Bush done to discriminate against a group of people?



Politicaly Active Since 1992

Drivin that Train

Did you not read my above post? It is discriminatory for a representative of the people to introduce a set of religious principles that are not shared by all members of the population. It arbitrarily gives better governmental representation to a specific group of people. In this case, the Christian cause has more political power than the non-Christian cause. There's no reason for it, yet it is true. Thus, in supporting Christian principles, Bush discriminates against non-Christians by not representing their views, as he should, being the leader of the nation.

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In a haze
A stormy haze
I’ll be around
I’ll be loving you
Always
Always

Here I am
And I’ll take my time
Here I am
And I’ll wait in line
Always
Always...

' Not everyone in the US is a part of his religion, and therefore, he is failing to represent a large part of his country by ignoring their interests' -J.D may

Well J.D what happens if Kerry's administration legalizes abortion. Isn't that going to piss off the interests of maybe a few christians? I'm not sure the statistics but im sure chrstianity is a majority religion in America. For someone who can't even vote in our country you devote a lot of time and effort into the process. I guess it must be boring sitting on the other side of that line looking at all the glory of America.


God is an American.

So, would it be resonable for a president to, if by popular opinion of his nation, to betray his convictions? If a large group of Americans called for the killing of every first born should the President deny his own religous convictions and condone this action? When you elect a president you don't just elect him on how he stands on issues but his charecter as a whole. What does this man believe, what are his convictions, and if pressed by a noisy minoity will he throw them to the wind and take it in the ass from them. Well, if you want a man who will bend over then there is a tall fellow from Mass who is willing to betray his belifes and convictions and will be your own personal Marsellus Wallece if you want him to be. I would rather have a man who would stand and remain constant on the things that he believes then one who will sway with the loud opinion.



Politicaly Active Since 1992

Drivin that Train

It certainly is more interesting, but not glorious... probably a different version of whatever it is that attracts so many people to watching Jerry Springer.

Now, first of all, we're talking about problems with Bush, not Kerry. Secondly, there is a difference between religion and other issues with regard to popular support. As a president, whoever it is should do what he believes is in the best interests of ALL OF his people. People might not believe that something is in their best interests, such as a particular economic policy, but this is moot. The good president should try to act in everyone's interests as best he can. If he takes an action, it should be for the good of the country as a whole. When it comes to religion, he is not doing this. He is acting in the interests of a group to which he belongs, not because it is better for all, but because he belongs to the group.

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In a haze
A stormy haze
I’ll be around
I’ll be loving you
Always
Always

Here I am
And I’ll take my time
Here I am
And I’ll wait in line
Always
Always...

Interesting...you call the multitude of Bush bashers on this site sheep, and say they are jumping on the bandwagon. Maybe there's a reason for this. By the way, every time I hear someone say 'Kerry is just a flipflopper,' I ask them 'Ok, name an issue he's 'flipflopped' on.' I know he has changed his mind on some issues, which every politician and person on NS has done. But most of the time, people can't name an issue. They're just regurgitating a neat little word they heard...flipflop. I'm going to try to break slightly newer ground here in this latest NS political thread. I can remember as soon as I began hating Bush. Pre-9/11 I didn't have much of a problem with him. After 9/11, when he started giving all his speeches, I realized something. All he was doing was increasing people's fears.

That's a big reason I cannot stand this man. He plays on people's fears and anxieties in order to pass his agenda. At the same time, he expects the economy to improve, and says idiotic things like this. Here's a little quote I think everyone remembers.

'Well I say, bring them on.'

He should have began that with, 'People tell me 'Dedicated terrorists can still accomplish their goals, no matter how good homeland security is. You can't fight a war against a few unknown individuals in a country full of millions of people.' Well, you know what I say?'

If a terrorist attack had happened, and a woman had lost her son, she could have said, 'This is George Bush's fault.' And she'd be partially right.

Bigj, I've heard you say that Bush is doing some good in the world. In Israel, Afghanistan, and Iraq. Interesting that they way that Bush does good is through war. Despite the fact that Israel is hated by the middle east, and lately, with pretty damn good reason. Despite the fact that Afghanistan was 'not as good a target' as Iraq, and was in my opinion, a given after 9/11. And Iraq? I think everyone knows why Bush chose to 'do some good' in Iraq. We all know how Republicans love helping people.

Each day this man controls our country, he is poisoning this nation. Mark my words; years later, he will go down as an embarassment and travesty of a president.


smokin weed flippin keys makin crazy gs

there is a big difference. bush wants to deny rights (privilages, whatever), kerry does not. Bush wants to make gay marriage illegal, therefore gays cannot marry. kerry wants to keep abortions legal, therefore you can get and abortion but you do not have to if you dont belive in it. big difference

By allowing gays to get married you are not just granting a right but also denying a right. There are a whole lot of people who find marrige sacred and see it as desicration to have gays married. So, in legalizing gay marrige you are indeed stripping the sanctity of marrige which many people hold dear. So, for the last time give them something, all the same rights, but just don't call it marrige.

Abortion, don't really want to go into this, but it is denying the right to life that that child has. Can a child live a normal life after being aborted, no it is dead. So, when you grant abortion then you in turn take away the right to life that the child has.

The kerry flip flop issue: the war in Iraq and gun control to name a few.

And if you want my opinion on war in general use the search bar, because it is inevitable.







Politicaly Active Since 1992

Drivin that Train

did anyone play that anit bush game??




patj

As far as abortion goes, not tabling legislation on an issue is not the same as denying a right. But apparently my definition of one of the primary criteria of a good president has fallen by the wayside and isn't being argued with, so I guess I'm out of this. It's turning into the same argument all over again. Again.

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In a haze
A stormy haze
I’ll be around
I’ll be loving you
Always
Always

Here I am
And I’ll take my time
Here I am
And I’ll wait in line
Always
Always...

J.D may I ask the what the current legislation on gay marriage and gun control is in canada?


God is an American.

Gay marriage is legal, but I don't know much about the gun registry, since I have no use for it. Why do you ask?

------------
In a haze
A stormy haze
I’ll be around
I’ll be loving you
Always
Always

Here I am
And I’ll take my time
Here I am
And I’ll wait in line
Always
Always...

Its just easier to argue certine points when you don't have to live with them.



Politicaly Active Since 1992

Drivin that Train

I argue theoretically anyways. Whether or not a condition exists has no bearing on the ethics related to it. If you argue in practice, you can't make rulings about the rightness or wrongness of something. Logic is the only way to do that.

------------
In a haze
A stormy haze
I’ll be around
I’ll be loving you
Always
Always

Here I am
And I’ll take my time
Here I am
And I’ll wait in line
Always
Always...

Wow Thanks guys for making intelligent responses Melvs and JDMay and others. I think this just continues to show, for the most part, the disparity between bush supporters and democrats. All bush supporters can say is 'fuck terrorists!' 'kill towel heads!' 'no gay marriages, no homos!' while democrats and Kerry supporters can lay down intelligent reasons why Bush should not be in power anymore. And I agree with all those reasons you guy laid down. When the mayor of London calls Bush 'the greatest threat to world peace on earth today' and there is not a major country in the world whose population majority favors America, it's time to rethink our administration. How can you argue with the rest of the goddamn planet?
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'haha he told his parents ahbout his ginormous cock.... what a fag' - linemaverick540

'I wonder why haters tend to be idiots?' J.D._May

^Give credit where credit's due, BigJ did pretty well for himself, too, whether we agree or not.

------------
In a haze
A stormy haze
I’ll be around
I’ll be loving you
Always
Always

Here I am
And I’ll take my time
Here I am
And I’ll wait in line
Always
Always...

I like how you used accurate quotes to depict the bush-supporters. (sarcasm: 10/your a dumbass)



Politicaly Active Since 1992

Drivin that Train

midwest that is



Politicaly Active Since 1992

Drivin that Train

Terrorism is an issue eh? Ask yourself who's making you afraid. Some guy wearing a turban hidden in either some mountains or a desert halfway across the world, or the administration which has lied time and time again about Iraq, weapons of mass destruction, your economy, ties to big business, and the list goes on...

Does the 'increased security' at airports make you feel safer, or more afraid. Is it even effective? How about that colour coded warning system? Many prominent psychologists and psychiatrists agree that it isn't designed to inform anyone, but rather put them into a state of fear.

If your current administration is so keen on protecting you from terrorism, why do they want you to be afraid all the time? Because if you can make people afraid, you can tell them what to do. And what do Bush and Cheney want? Your vote. Congratulations, you got suckered.



Freezy deletes all my posts because he doesn't like me, so I suggest you message him to make him stop.

It's worked so far, Jib This.
'Weapons of mass destruction RELATED PROGRAM ACTIVITIES? What the fuck is that? ... If he'd put it that way the first time, we NEVER would've gone to war- Ohhh. Oh, he's good.'

------------
In a haze
A stormy haze
I’ll be around
I’ll be loving you
Always
Always

Here I am
And I’ll take my time
Here I am
And I’ll wait in line
Always
Always...

look way up there for melvs' thing

'bush is not supporting an international aids fund because the countries don't agree with his abstinence (for you dumb asses, that means no sex before marriage) '

no, now you seem to be the dumbass, as abstinence is no sex at all, marriage or no.
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yes.. i once found my freind on acid under a blanket and wearing a loin cloth made out of bannna peels
hoodratz47

do you not realize kerry and bush have the same stance on the war



dont worry about what i can or cant do, worry about what you cant do to me

was that post about abstinence necessary at all? the point is still the same

skierdude... as I have been taught in school, as well as in real life, abstaining from sex until marriage is what is referred to as 'abstinace'.
-Pat Melvin
WBP|films


'Who's not 18 yet? What? LA LA LA LA LA LA! I can't hear you.' - Jay

to further prove the point, would bush be for abstinance if it meant no sex at all? he wouldn't have his children if he did. Not to mention it would kill off the human race in one generation if that was teh case and it suceeded. you're the dumbass.
-Pat Melvin
WBP|films


'Who's not 18 yet? What? LA LA LA LA LA LA! I can't hear you.' - Jay

well i guess we just learned differently then.
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yes.. i once found my freind on acid under a blanket and wearing a loin cloth made out of bannna peels
hoodratz47

again, not that it really mattes, but abstinance means (according to dictionary.com):
The act or practice of refraining from indulgence in an appetite, as for certain foods, drink, alcoholic beverages, drugs, or sex.

Basically it means not doing something. Abstinance is what priests are supposed to do. Bush hates fornication, which is the sex before marriage. Done

now for my top 5 reasons why not to vote for bush (if you can that is, and i know most of you are under 18):

(I know some of these are similar to the ones above, but nonetheless here they are)

Reason 1: He lied to the country: weapons of mass destruction, linking 9/11 to Iraq, saying Iraq would be a quick one-month ordeal and it’d be over, etc.

Reason 2: He launched a preemptive war that was completely unjustified. It has cost the country countless billions of dollars that could be better spent. It has cost over a thousand American lives (I think) and many thousands of innocent Iraqis. All this under the pretense that Iraq had been a threat to our national security and that threat could be neutralized through war. Overall, preemptive war is a dangerous, dangerous concept to deal with. On its premises, any country could attack us with legitimate reason because we have the potential to destroy almost every other country on the planet.

Reason 3: He is trying to take rights away from Americans. Whenever the constitution has been amended (except for Prohibition) has expanded rights, Bush wants the opposite. He has inflicted his Southern Christian values on the rest of America and is so obsessed with being a good clean Christian Boy that he wants to take rights away from gays. Now he wants to prohibit abortion. Whether you believe a fetus is alive during pregnancy is a religious issue, not a political one. I know it is a touch subject, but legalizing it forces no one abort their own baby. It is still choice. For people who believe all abortions are evil, will you take the responsibility to properly raise every child born to a teenage mother who will no-doubt mess up the kids life if she tries to.

Reason 4: Blatantly ignored the power of the U.N. – saying that well I’m more powerful than all of you put together, so fuck off I’ll do what I want. The U.N. was founded on the premise of diplomacy and needed a method of enforcement to ensure diplomacy. Up until now, the United States was the enforcing power of the U.N., which gave it its credibility. But now, by overruling the U.N., we have dissolved it of all its credibility now and in the future.

Reason 5: Has used the greatest potential to reform America, with the massive patriotism following 9/11, possibly an even bigger presidential mandate than LBJ had, and has blown it all away in three years while accomplishing little if any domestic reform. He has used scare tactics to convince us into sacrificing our rights, subjecting ourselves to random searches that invade our privacy. (need to research Patriot Act a bit)

Reason 6 (cuz 5 isnt enough): He’s a fucking moron. Not that this automatically makes him a bad president, but usually we feel more comfortable with intelligent responsible leaders than ones that have trouble speaking English. Bush is great at doing what people tell him though, I’ll give him that. But if you have any doubt of Bush’s stupidity, just listen to some of the quotes online of him, just read about how he graduated from Yale with a C-average after his Daddy got him in. Just take one look at his reaction to being told of the second plane hitting (in F.9-11) and you cant deny that he just looks inept.