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Cap and Trade- Obama's worst idea ever??

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BravoWhiskey5280
Posts: 4020 - Karma: 520
If you create something that will have a devastating affect on one important aspect of life, thus being the economy, to gain minimal and timely results in another important aspect, being the environment, than it is a very inefficient way to do politics. Your just creating a bigger problem by solving another. Now does that make any sense?
Global warming itself is sketchy, why create legislation on something that were not even certain of. Not mention it will make are already shitty economy even shittier.
Nov 11 2010 6:52PM
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Mr.Turtle
Posts: 3690 - Karma: 96
inb4 political shitstorm
Nov 11 2010 6:55PM
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howlongcanausern
Posts: 4982 - Karma: 1,737
imma have to save this for later trolling
Nov 11 2010 6:56PM
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tfast
Posts: 607 - Karma: 7
ralph nader 2012
Nov 11 2010 6:56PM
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.Cal.
Posts: 354 - Karma: 66
.
the only thing got from this was that global warming is sketchy....
Nov 11 2010 6:57PM
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2_fadez
Posts: 7780 - Karma: 4,180
The first sentence you created was complete bullshit. Not in what was said, but in the matters that you just combined a whole bunch of 'smart people words' in order to come across as somewhat intelligent and informed.
From reading what you initially posted, I didn't even bother taking the time to try and process what you wanted to get across further on in your post, out of sheer sympathy for the processing and translating division of my brain.

Good luck and please don't ever try again.
Nov 11 2010 7:01PM
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Ski_Unit_19
Posts: 8188 - Karma: 38
your attempt to sound smart just backfired
Nov 11 2010 7:03PM
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bigbromskier
Posts: 1175 - Karma: 330
Cap and Trade was definitely around before Obama. Just because he uses it doesn't mean he implemented it; it's also kind of a global thing that other countries are participating in. As stated above, do some more research before spillin' your beans.

Here's some help: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emissions_trading

"The efficiency of what later was to be called the "cap-and-trade" approach to air pollution abatement was first demonstrated in a series of micro-economic computer simulation studies between 1967 and 1970 for the National Air Pollution Control Administration (predecessor to the United States Environmental Protection Agency's Office of Air and Radiation) by Ellison Burton and William Sanjour."

So it was the U.S.....40 years ago...

And now you know...
Nov 11 2010 7:04PM
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BravoWhiskey5280
Posts: 4020 - Karma: 520
First off, people on NS are genuine ass holes, fuck you guys. Secondly, what im trying to say is that if cap and trade became law, than it would have a devastating effect on are already shitty ass economy. Why? Because it would tax the living hell out of us and companies that have high carbon emissions. Lets look at the effects that it would have on a state, per say Kentucky.

• Due to lower industrial output as a result of higher energy prices, the costs of complying with required emissions cuts, and greater competition from overseas manufacturers with lower energy costs, Kentucky would lose as many as 23,000 jobs in 2020 and nearly 50,000 jobs in 2030.

• Disposable household income would be reduced by as much as $2,500 per year in 2020 and up to $6,000 by 2030.

• The price of gasoline in Kentucky would increase between 74 percent and 144 percent in 2030. Electricity prices would increase by between 122 percent and 159 percent. Kentucky residents would pay between 99 percent and 142 percent more for their natural gas by 2030.

All of Kentucky's largest manufacturing sectors would experience output losses.

Kentucky's 1,865 schools and universities and 134 hospitals will likely experience an increase of up to 35 percent in expenditures by 2020 and as much as 123 percent by 2030.

Chemical makers, second only to the producers of transportation equipment among Kentucky's leading manufacturing sectors, say the mandates proposed by President Obama would push U.S. jobs and investment offshore.


Nov 11 2010 7:21PM
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CKpolicy
Posts: 2587 - Karma: 2,463
i cant say anything other than lol. do you even know what cap and trade means?
Nov 11 2010 7:24PM
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ATLskier
Posts: 8203 - Karma: 406
not obamas idea
Nov 11 2010 7:26PM
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p-fo
Posts: 9372 - Karma: 6,155
interestingly i agree. obama is being too lenient. just like with health care and the economic regulations. regulations just need to be much tougher with much higher consequences for polluters. this system doesnt do nearly enough to stop emissions because it doesnt stop or slow them, only keeps them for growing any more.
Nov 11 2010 7:27PM
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EmperorKuzco
Posts: 6660 - Karma: 254
you just copied and pasted half of that. if you really think you know what you are talking about you would have written it in your own words
Nov 11 2010 7:30PM
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p-fo
Posts: 9372 - Karma: 6,155
lol at the stats about paying more by 2030. thats going to happen anyway. this really plays a very small role in the increase of energy costs by then. fail science is fail
Nov 11 2010 7:32PM
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Emma_Watson
Posts: 4483 - Karma: 6,662
chill bro, ranting on newschoolers isn't gonna change what people think.. go run for president..
Nov 11 2010 7:59PM
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gr4
Posts: 1499 - Karma: 945
climate change is a very real and proven thing. Every scientist in the field agrees. The only people denying it are politicians and the people following them. Science can't be explained in sound bites. I've taken 3 years of classes learning about the facts and I still don't know everything there is to be known about climate change, so reading a paragraph on your favorite politicians website will not fully inform you of the facts. As far as cap and trade goes, its a good system. Much better than setting straight regulations for all companies. It gives companies that cannot immediately lower their emissions time to change, and rewards those that can get below the regulations. Yes it will cost money. Yes things will cost more. We have been living without regard to environmental harm for too long and now we are having to adjust to a lifestyle that is more sustainable. Theres a reason Europe pays $8 a gallon of gas. I'm not bullshitting you. I get paid to do this stuff.
Nov 11 2010 8:13PM
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little_boo
Posts: 1303 - Karma: 231
Dude, wft.
Cap and trade is already in effect, and Obama definitely didn't start it. I was legitimately studying this YESTERDAY in class.
And although it may not be the best idea that everybody loves, it has already proven to reduce factory pollutants such as SO2 and NOx
Nov 11 2010 8:21PM
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gr4
Posts: 1499 - Karma: 945
haha me too. thats weird.
Nov 11 2010 8:26PM
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laxstar
Posts: 1051 - Karma: 11
because cap and trade is only used for green house emissions..... cap and trade requires companies to reduce pollutants, while CO2 is one of the pollutants they are mostly focused on sulfur and nitrogen oxide, because of their ability to cause acid precipitation, as well as ozone production which leads to smog.
Nov 11 2010 8:30PM
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Smuffy
Posts: 4685 - Karma: 3,407
all your credibility just went out the window.
Nov 11 2010 10:28PM
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little_boo
Posts: 1303 - Karma: 231
environmental politics?
such a crazy class
Nov 11 2010 10:31PM
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Big_Willy
Posts: 2865 - Karma: 6

How many macroeconomic majors do we have in the house? Really why bring this up? I'm willing to bet that less than 1% of NS has enough ammo in their noggins to intelligently debate this topic.

Nov 11 2010 10:57PM
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Gnarcoma
Posts: 437 - Karma: 5
Could somebody give me a logical reason for why marijuana is illegal?
Nov 11 2010 11:00PM
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HermioneGranger
Posts: 1933 - Karma: 101
Cap and Trade?
Nov 11 2010 11:06PM
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jsaya_SagStraps
Posts: 1840 - Karma: 29
Posting up your rant on NS really won't change any ones opinion, just cause a shit storm. I believe that cap and trade doesn't work as a proposal, there are way too many loopholes in the idea, but still that we as a nation and world need good laws to fight climate change, and it would be a step in the right direction.

But look, believe what you want. I don't care, and will never change your beliefs.


Nov 12 2010 12:50AM
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mothaeast
Posts: 2923 - Karma: 13
You really have no idea what cap and trade is do you? Sounds like you read something written by just another person who is trying to stall and tear down political agenda because they're so butt hurt Obama was actually elected president. At least try and learn more about it before you adopt one person's opinion as truth... And you saying it will tax the hell out of us? Cap and Trade isn't a tax numb nuts.

If you want my opinion, I think the most effective policy to take on reducing carbon emissions would be a per-ton carbon tax. Cap and Trade worked for SO2 because it targeted the producers of it, large factories, but CO2 is completely different, we all contribute to the problem every single day. Distributing permits may help cut back on coal factory emission, but thats only part of the problem.

And all your mumbo jumbo about it ruining the economy, there are far more problems with our fiscal agenda that have much more effect than a carbon tax would. Look at the whole picture, ok?
Nov 12 2010 12:53AM
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sirschralpalot.
Posts: 453 - Karma: 18
taxes aren't bad
Nov 12 2010 12:55AM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51293 - Karma: 157,925
Man made global warming. Falsely hyped to death bunch of bs, that has been used to push new legislation. That's how shit gets passed these days. Scared the ignorant masses, pass whatever the fuck you want as long as it sounds good.
Nov 12 2010 1:00AM
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564
The CONCEPT behind it is pretty good. It keeps whatever effects we have on the environment down while also generating money for the gov't.

The thing I disagree with is how what the Dems seem to want to do is to put the tax on EVERYONE. I understand putting it on big industry and the like but on the regular person? Doesn't seem to make any sense.
Nov 12 2010 1:00AM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51293 - Karma: 157,925
The funny/sad thing is the people that support this approach. People like al gore that made the whole thing an issue. Started selling those carbon right offs.


The same as the church selling condolences. Al Gore's house is also one of the least environmentally friendly around. I still don't buy into the hype, especially when you look at the people that have been pushing it the hardest, and the way it's being used to push legislation.
Nov 12 2010 1:09AM
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spicyjib
Posts: 94 - Karma: 74

all i know is that obama is just trying to come up with a solution to prablems.... and dumb asses like you are just trying to so " oh no no no!!" Lets compromise in the middel. arguing does not help jack shit!

secondly this might not just be me but we are just going in a deeper and deeper hole and the only reason this hole is getting lower is because amaricans are to scard to face the pain it takes to get out. otherwise things are just going to get worse and sooner or later that pain will have to be felt....

fighting this depresion is not going to help us..... its just delaing the aftermath to our future generations!

Nov 12 2010 1:09AM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51293 - Karma: 157,925
solid effort. I dig it. Almost believable.
Nov 12 2010 1:13AM
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klayer_9
Posts: 2037 - Karma: 188
Just because we don't agree with you?
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Nov 12 2010 1:23AM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51293 - Karma: 157,925
Yes. That was my biggest problem with the whole thing from the start. It became more of a religion than science. There was no need for discussion, it was a consensus. Any attempt further debate was met with all kinds of ignorance and hate. Science has always had a big play in proving our realities wrong. We thought the earth was flat, the earth was the center of the universe. If we just considered those ideas a consensus, how far would we have gotten?

You have to be able to challenge what is perceived to be true. Also the idea that there are not any credible scientists who oppose this idea is absolute bullshit. Unfortunately people are so damn ignorant they believe the idea of a consensus. The worst part about it is the idea that "all scientists" agree on, is full of problems, misleading information, and some absolute bullshit.

People need to open their minds and look at every problem from multiple angles. Look at ideas from other peoples view points, try to separate themselves from prior bias and focus only on the facts. Seems like we aren't even taught real thinking. People just believe something because they heard it in a commercial or saw it in a movie. It's sad
Nov 12 2010 1:34AM
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r0dubs
Posts: 1764 - Karma: 19
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Nov 12 2010 1:36AM
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molsongolden
Posts: 1649 - Karma: 162
EY!

if companies incur more costs because of cap and trade they will most likely just pass the costs through to the consumers so it's really just a tax on the people but I won't even care because I AM GOING TO MAKE SO MUCH FUCKING MONEY SPECULATING ON CARBON PERMITS AND RIDING THE CARBON BUBBLE BBBBBBOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

AND THEN I AM GOING TO START A NON-PROFIT WITH ALL THE MONEY I MADE AND BUY EVERY SINGLE PERMIT OUT THERE AND NO COMPANY WILL BE ABLE TO POLLUTE BECAUSE I'LL HOLD ALL THE RIGHTS TO POLLUTE AND I WON'T USE THEM I WILL PUT THEM IN MY PIGGY BANK MADE FROM RECYCLED PAPER PAPERMACHE

BBBBBOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
Nov 12 2010 1:47AM
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LIL_WAT
Posts: 1900 - Karma: 475
My thoughts exactly. So many people buy into it without a second thought. It's the perfect meeting of agendas between big Government and the environmentalists to rip off society en masse.
Nov 12 2010 3:21AM
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howlongcanausern
Posts: 4982 - Karma: 1,737
cool words and opinions bro

the data speaks for itself.
Nov 12 2010 11:18AM
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Stickity
Posts: 7750 - Karma: 769
you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about
you couldn't possibly be a politician
you're 12
Nov 12 2010 11:25AM
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dubaiski
Posts: 961 - Karma: 37
From what i have gathered the idea is that there will be a world wide tax and cut on companies poluting, this in turn will cause cost-push inflation and thus lead to world wide inflation. To combat this governments will subsidise markets to stabilise inflation, this subsidy, in theory, wont add to oppertunity cost due to the cost being raised from taxes.

However this will only work if all countries abide to it otherwise some countries (china) will undercut everybody and will lead to protection policies being used by other governments such as America on china importing car tyres.

Can somebody tell me if this is on the right track as i didnt read the thread and only occasional posts.
Nov 12 2010 11:40AM
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COskier
Posts: 1066 - Karma: 131
Don't know if anybody mentioned it because I didn't read the whole thread, but has anyone mentioned that cap and trade was that liberal bastard Bob Dole's plan?
Nov 12 2010 12:05PM
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