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Shooting skiing in 30p or 60i?

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B.Snow
Posts: 1859 - Karma: 92
I'm going to be making a pretty full switch from skiing into filming this year because of a blown knee and I was wondering whether its better to shoot in 30p or 60i. I have an hv30 and I've only ever really shot skiing in 60i.

Obviously slo-mo is a pretty big part of this debate but I'd like to know how the two formats look from your experiences in both real time and slow motion.
Nov 1 2010 7:56PM
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B.Snow
Posts: 1859 - Karma: 92
wooops, anyone want to move this to media and arts?
Nov 1 2010 7:57PM
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MatRich
Posts: 4789 - Karma: 1,812
60 all the way, you can do slowmotions and just conform the 60 to 30 and its going to be the same as if you shot at30
Nov 1 2010 7:58PM
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Brentizzle
Posts: 1584 - Karma: 1,871
I always shoot in 60 on my 7D even if its only 720p. Im in the exact same situation bro. Tore my ACL this summer and now im devoting my winter to filming. vibes.
Nov 1 2010 8:38PM
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1337
Posts: 31038 - Karma: 29,003
60i ≠ 60p noobs
Nov 1 2010 8:41PM
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i.ski.NC
Posts: 572 - Karma: 18
It depends. Would you rather have great quality clips when they're at full speed but sucky in slow mo? Or would you rather have ok quality clips that do great in slow mo? If around 20% of your clips are going to be slowed down, go with 60i. Otherwise just stick with 30p. You probably already knew that though.

And on a side note, I learned this last season with my GoPro. I decided I'd go with 1080p at 30 fps because I figured I'd never need to slow down the footage, but when I decided to make an edit, I realized I made the wrong choice. I should have done 720p at 60 fps.
Nov 1 2010 9:03PM
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WillStart
Posts: 3955 - Karma: 3,192
this.

to all the people saying go with 60, its 60i. this means its really just 60 half frames. when played at regular speed, 60i looks like shit in my opinion anyways.

one option would be to try to get Twixtor and use that to slow down your 30p clips.
Nov 1 2010 9:08PM
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IanAvery-Leaf
Posts: 9926 - Karma: 9,344

Nov 1 2010 9:09PM
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purps
Posts: 468 - Karma: 30
i like to do 30p usually cause it just looks better. 60i gives me the feeling of a homemade video which looks way shittier. although sometimes its definitely worth it to do 60i and get some slomo
Nov 1 2010 9:09PM
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A.Eberhard
Posts: 4426 - Karma: 415
Got an hv30 also. I personally like 30p just cause of the look, but sometimes I'll shoot my end of the year footage in 60i because you just don't know what you will be slowing done until you sit down and start editing.

60i = better slow mo
30p = better normal speed shots
Nov 1 2010 9:12PM
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rudager
Posts: 11332 - Karma: 4,597
he speaks the truth!!

straight out of my broadcasting notes


525 Lines to scan a picture and make a frame. 30 frames / sec. 15 750 lines/sec

(I)nterlace: Every other line is shown. So 262.5 frames/sec. 1080 i

720 (P)rogressive. Every line is read individually.

1080p is delivered via Blu Ray. Not bandwidth.
Nov 1 2010 9:14PM
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B.Snow
Posts: 1859 - Karma: 92
thanks guys this is all pretty helpful... If I were to shoot everything in 30p, is there a program that can create smooth slo-mo with 30p video?

I know about twitor and I've kind of heard mixed reviews from a lot of people. I edit with FCE and was wonder how after effect would work with it.
Nov 1 2010 9:46PM
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IanAvery-Leaf
Posts: 9926 - Karma: 9,344
mixed reviews? its fine, just use it in after effects if you can
Nov 1 2010 9:56PM
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B.Snow
Posts: 1859 - Karma: 92
I've heard it works awesome for interlaced footage but, for 30 and 24p people have told me it gets choppy

Nov 1 2010 9:58PM
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IanAvery-Leaf
Posts: 9926 - Karma: 9,344
you probably heard that from an idiot like DownToFilm....

its fine, just try it out
Nov 1 2010 10:05PM
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B.Snow
Posts: 1859 - Karma: 92
cool thanks dude
Nov 1 2010 10:15PM
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WillStart
Posts: 3955 - Karma: 3,192
i've seen it used for 24p footage from a 5D and it worked beautifully. obviously if it's 30p or 24p there's going to be a limit as to how much magic twixtor can work, but it still does a good job.
Nov 1 2010 10:27PM
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goodiepocket
Posts: 950 - Karma: 640
yup.
Nov 1 2010 10:29PM
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Alkyy
Posts: 2839 - Karma: 149

On my Xh  last winter I filmed almost 100% 60i, this summer I filmed a bunch of random scenic stuff on 30p then forgot to switch it back for filming mtn biking, ended up not being that big of a deal at all, overall the edit and the footage came out way better then if it was in 60i and im actually glad I made the mistake.  This year i think the only time ill put it to 60i is if im filming a park shoot with a huge table or blower powder. 

And just because its 60i doesnt mean its gunna look good at 50% with no other work.  I have a few minutes at the end of a tape that needs to get imported... I'll try doing a FCP tutorial next week of a trick my buddy showed me to get super smooth slowmo without twixtor if i have time and there is enough intrest.

Nov 1 2010 10:35PM
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KellyK
Posts: 1781 - Karma: 706
I shot all last season specifically in 24p. I'm not a fan of slow-mo, and I like the film aesthetic that comes with 24.

Just experiment with what you like. Best advice i can give you.
Nov 1 2010 10:36PM
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MatRich
Posts: 4789 - Karma: 1,812
or even better shoot at 60 and drop frames (conform) so that it is projected at 24 fps. you can do slowmotions if you need to and have the nice asthetic.
Nov 1 2010 10:53PM
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wynnyk
Posts: 1638 - Karma: 555
30p = 30 progressive (full) frames per second

60i = 60 interlaced (half) frames per second, which needs to be de-interlaced to make look decent

In your situation, I would film 30p as then there would be no need to de-interlace.
Nov 1 2010 10:58PM
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KellyK
Posts: 1781 - Karma: 706
word, but unless you know of an easy way to do that, that can be kind of tricky...?
Nov 1 2010 11:03PM
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Downtofilm
Posts: 6896 - Karma: 20,399
oh thanks dude!
No iv never told anyone that i dont even use fucking twixtor
Nov 1 2010 11:25PM
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MatRich
Posts: 4789 - Karma: 1,812
its not that simple. its not exactly half frame.

progressive reads lines 1 to 1080 in order where as interlaced reads it 2,4,6,8,10 etc up to 1080 and then does lines 1,3,5,7,9.... until its done
Nov 1 2010 11:29PM
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IanAvery-Leaf
Posts: 9926 - Karma: 9,344
you're 12
Nov 1 2010 11:29PM
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WillStart
Posts: 3955 - Karma: 3,192
how is that different than a half frame?
Nov 1 2010 11:42PM
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wynnyk
Posts: 1638 - Karma: 555
ohhh I see, thank you!
Nov 1 2010 11:43PM
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B.Snow
Posts: 1859 - Karma: 92
That would be awesome dude
Nov 1 2010 11:44PM
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miroz
Posts: 10333 - Karma: 3,947
That is a half frame. It's half the image.

And deinterlacing is kind of a bitch, I've found that it takes quality away from videos. Lately I've been able to visualize which shots I want to have in slow mo and why, and so for those shots I'll switch up my settings so as to shoot 60i for those shots and those shots only. For the rest I use 24p.

IMO 60i is a very "videoy" look - it looks digital. 24p, while still digital obv, has the qualities of film and a "full frame" image, and therefore looks a bit more like film. It's all about preference I guess.
Nov 1 2010 11:47PM
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MatRich
Posts: 4789 - Karma: 1,812
its not exactly that simple. while the second series is refreshing, the first series is still there so you have a full image. just that refreshes in two frames. the refreshing is half a frame but the video is always always full. just different.
Nov 1 2010 11:51PM
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Downtofilm
Posts: 6896 - Karma: 20,399
**" You're***
Nov 1 2010 11:53PM
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IanAvery-Leaf
Posts: 9926 - Karma: 9,344
eheaths not fat, you are
Nov 1 2010 11:54PM
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wynnyk
Posts: 1638 - Karma: 555
he's a spawn of eheath.
Nov 1 2010 11:55PM
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miroz
Posts: 10333 - Karma: 3,947
Don't say things like faggot and disabled because some people may take offense to that. Whether his callout is outrageous or not, I don't care, but please watch your language, that shit is unwanted, especially in M&A. Clean up or GTFO.

And MatRich, I understand that in terms of 30 frames, you still have a "full frame" - is that what you're saying? I'm saying that within that one frame, you have two distinct half frames, hence the shitty look of un-deinterlaced video.
Nov 1 2010 11:57PM
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wynnyk
Posts: 1638 - Karma: 555
but seriously, I don't know why everyone likes to hate on him, he makes quality edits, better than most people on here haha.
Nov 1 2010 11:57PM
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IanAvery-Leaf
Posts: 9926 - Karma: 9,344
people who speak up when they don't know what they are talking about are unwanted in M&A
Nov 2 2010 12:00AM
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miroz
Posts: 10333 - Karma: 3,947
In this case you called him out man, let it be.

Chill the fuck out and stop threadjacking, everyone.
Nov 2 2010 12:02AM
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IanAvery-Leaf
Posts: 9926 - Karma: 9,344
true, but that wasn't my first post in this thread
Nov 2 2010 12:04AM
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KellyK
Posts: 1781 - Karma: 706
Thats what i'm sayin.

And quit hatin you kids. This is not the place. Take it elsewhere.
Nov 2 2010 12:04AM
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miroz
Posts: 10333 - Karma: 3,947
In that case then your second post was uncalled for. If he says something dumb, fine, give him NS hell. Even better, be a real grown up and rebut with the right information. The hate has no place in M&A though, it keeps people from asking questions, trying new things, and putting new ideas out there which is what M&A is all about, no?

THIS IS DONE
Nov 2 2010 12:10AM
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Heath.
Posts: 838 - Karma: 149
I'd shoot 30p.
Nov 2 2010 12:13AM
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Galin
Posts: 2342 - Karma: 3,940
30p all day in my book. In my opinion 60i creates a pretty handicam-esque look that is not at all desirable. Sure, you can deinterlace the footage but it still ends up looking a bit goofy. Like said above, if you know you're going to be slowing down a shot, then feel free to switch over to 60i as there are tricks you can do to slow that down 50% and make it look just fine, but in all other instances progressive takes the cake.
Nov 2 2010 1:02AM
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family_vacation
Posts: 6200 - Karma: 7,841
30p for sure. interlaced video looks like it is interlaced.

and what happened above me?
Nov 2 2010 1:04AM
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Downtofilm
Posts: 6896 - Karma: 20,399
On my fx-1000 Iv been using 60i since I got it, but after this thread im considering using 30p and using my 240fps for slowmo. Thanks ns
Nov 2 2010 1:08AM
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Heath.
Posts: 838 - Karma: 149
Please don't use the 240, its like 160x120.
Nov 2 2010 1:10AM
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Downtofilm
Posts: 6896 - Karma: 20,399
really? shitt i thought it was 720 thats what my friend told me, ok I guess I wont use it as much anymore
Nov 2 2010 1:17AM
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Official_Recap
Posts: 1075 - Karma: 525
Be careful using the 240 burst. The resolution is VERY compromised, which could potentially break up the flow in an edit. I would definitely recommend testing it out a bit to see how well it will match up with your other footage. But then again, experimenting and trying out new things is what it's all about. Test it out and see if something great can come from it!

To the OP - Shoot progressive. I think progressive looks better hands down and you shouldn't need the 60 frames for the majority of footage anyway. Shooting at 30p will push you to work more with your footage and be more creative rather than making an edit that's 80% unnecessary slow motion.
Nov 2 2010 1:53AM
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Downtofilm
Posts: 6896 - Karma: 20,399
well this came out pretty well but only if your not watching full screen, the footage looks sharp in the first couple shots of the tramping shot 1 and 3

Nov 2 2010 2:00AM
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