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April, 2024

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Newschoolers and iPhone/iPod Touch owners... I need your help

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aoe
Posts: 2947 - Karma: 51
So i've been thinking of an idea for a physics based jump calcuating application for like 5 years now.  About a year or so ago I saw an opportunity to design this app for the iPhone and iPod touch and make it mobile so you could use it on site and take advantage of the features like accelerometer, gps (iphone), etc.

Anyway, so I designed the application about 8 months ago and approached a couple of companies to build it. It will cost me around $5000 to get what I want.

This is what the application will do:
It will allow you to answer kinematic based questions jump questions such as
1) How far will I go off x jump given Y perametors
2) how fast do I need to go to clear X jump given Y parameters
4) Airtime
5) jump angle needed given Y parameters
etc.

Parameters such as speed, drag, jump angle, landing height from takeoff, etc. will be used to do the calculations and an angle finder and gps based speedometer will be built in.

So I almost pulled the trigger on getting the app developed but put it on hold indefinitely at the last minute for a couple reasons.
1) There's so many damn apps in the app store now it's hard for good apps to stand out
2) There's no guarantee it would even make the app store given apples frequency of rejecting apps without reason (plus there could be a liability issue even though this will just be an 'educational tool')

So basically I didn't want to gamble with $5g. I don't care if it makes much money, but I would love for it to at least be able to make the app store and break even.

Basically i'm just trying to get a level of interest from NSers and iPhone owners first of all. This doesn't just apply to skiing (any action sport). I'm also trying to figure out a dollar amount for the app. I've been thinking from $5.99 to 14.99, most likely settling at $9.99.
Dec 10 2009 5:30PM
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OrangeName
Posts: 675 - Karma: 15

you sound pretty smart..

and its sounds pretty cool

Dec 10 2009 5:33PM
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Hack.The.Pow.
Posts: 1294 - Karma: 25
I don't have a iPhone or Ipod touch but even if I did I feel like I still wouldn't buy the app. Simply because no one is going to want to measure out every parameter of a jump before they hit it. I feel like speed checking a jump would suffice to make sure you can clear it. I feel like the only people who would want it would be pros but that probably isnt enough of a clientele base to try and break even
Dec 10 2009 5:35PM
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mBall
Posts: 1690 - Karma: 2,827
I would definitely invest in it if it was in the app store
Dec 10 2009 5:35PM
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396222687862
Posts: 0 - Karma: 350
this
Dec 10 2009 5:50PM
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aoe
Posts: 2947 - Karma: 51
Well that's a good point but I guess I just didn't explain it well enough. You don't need to measure every parameter. You do need to fill in several unknowns to get your output, but a lot of that is automated. Like for example I said there will be a built in speedometer, you simply put it in your pocket when doing inruns. For the angle finder, you lay it on the surface (jump) you want to measure.

Also, when you select a sport a bunch of default data gets filled in with that selection such as mass, drag and a couple other things. Theses are editable, but if you want something quick then you don't need to do a whole lot.

It isn't just to find out about clearing a built jump though. Say you had a hill and an inrun but you didn't know where to build the jump onsidering how much speed you could get. Or, you know how far you want to go and you know how fast you can go, but you're not sure what angle your take off should be. You can find out any of this..

Here's a couple of input menus like I mentioned:



Click for larger image


Click for larger image
Dec 10 2009 6:10PM
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AMG.
Posts: 867 - Karma: 21
Yeah, something simple like how fast you're traveling off the lip, would be impossible for the average person to figure out conveniently.
Dec 10 2009 6:11PM
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Jimmy.
Posts: 2888 - Karma: 27
i would buy it for sure.
Dec 10 2009 6:12PM
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aoe
Posts: 2947 - Karma: 51
Yup. Built in speedo comes in handy here. Of course there's currently only gps in the iPhone and not the touch.
Dec 10 2009 6:13PM
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deathcookie
Posts: 1800 - Karma: 1,196
Personally, I dont really llike this idea.  Jumps have different curvatures and they will all launch you differently.  Also like before, nobody will measure out a jump like that.  If somebody uses it to get speed for a jump but overshoots or undershoots I have a feeling they could try to sue you as well.  A lot of people would probably buy it though.
Dec 10 2009 6:24PM
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aoe
Posts: 2947 - Karma: 51
The potential liability issue is 95% of why I didn't go ahead and build it. However, I think if you pitch it a little differently It may reduce the chance of a liability issue. Such as marketing it as a highschool physics aid...
Dec 10 2009 6:27PM
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TheDude
Posts: 2058 - Karma: 117
great idea but unfortunatly i dont think many NSers ponder such things as what you suggest. however intresting it is. very good idea and good luck
Dec 10 2009 6:48PM
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SlickRick.
Posts: 4329 - Karma: 300

you "feel like" a lot dont you?

but i do agree with you said here. i mean in the case of dumonts overshot, or derek sponge's undershot, it would have been helpful. but in most cases its a lot easier just to speedcheck.

Dec 10 2009 7:26PM
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kiro
Posts: 28 - Karma: 11
hey! this is a nice idea and if u need help in the maths no prob. its easy mechanics. buuut....its only an approximation. did u think of unknown parameters like the pop in a jump. i guess u only thoughts based on an app including a basic angled throw (hope the name is correct... its called schräger wurf in germany). u have to include the radiusshape of the kicker the friction the air resistance and so on. testig will be much easier but on the other hand it could be useful to build a good jump in a good size.
Dec 10 2009 7:55PM
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Zvarenza_724
Posts: 206 - Karma: 13
this is such a good idea i would deff buy this u r one smart cookie
Dec 10 2009 7:58PM
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Capurnicus
Posts: 9947 - Karma: 1,886
You should make it have a leveler for setting up rails straight.
Dec 10 2009 8:01PM
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scratchskier321
Posts: 2545 - Karma: 1,305
It shouldn't cost $5000 to build it
Dec 10 2009 8:10PM
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Goku
Posts: 8119 - Karma: 4,221
i would buy it so hard
Dec 10 2009 8:54PM
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Luc.
Posts: 7540 - Karma: 59
just throwing this out there,

but you could also include trajectory in terms of something like a cliff jump...like that you could take a picture of and the program evaluates how much speed you would need to land in your selected landing zone(since its a touch screen, you would select your zone on the picture)

i dont know if this would be algorithmicly(sp?) possible, as im more of a science guy without all this fancy physics stuff :P.

dope prog though!

from a business standpoint i dont think you would see your capital investment returned though.

Assuming you sold each unit for 9.99, it would take you roughly 500 people to buy this app...and thats even IF you can get it into the store.

Id try and sell the idea to someone who could finance its launch though, that way you make some money for ur efforts without being stuck 5gs
Dec 10 2009 9:15PM
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aoe
Posts: 2947 - Karma: 51
Yeah, I did think of some unknown parameters but there are sooooo many real world things to account for it's impossible really.

As for the 'pop' in a jump I basically grouped this into a term called suspension effect. As in you are either going to absorb a jump or pop off it, effectively adding or taking away from your launch angle. You should also put the iPhone on your ski and lay that on the jump rather then just setting the iphone at one point. This gives a better average angle measure.

As for the leveling a rail... it does that too : )
Dec 10 2009 10:39PM
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psychkub
Posts: 1788 - Karma: 16
I'd buy it, but I don't know if I would if it were $9.99
Dec 11 2009 12:33AM
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masta_LE3B
Posts: 3397 - Karma: 62
sounds sick, id be game
Dec 11 2009 12:41AM
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Hack.The.Pow.
Posts: 1294 - Karma: 25
yeah now that you put it that way I see what you mean. Seems like a pretty cool app then. But I also agree with whoever said it shouldn't cost 5000 dollars to design it. I know a bunch of programmers who do Iphone apps for much less. Expecially if your are able to figure out the math then there is very little work for the programmer to do
Dec 11 2009 12:47AM
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sammeb
Posts: 153 - Karma: 32
id do it just to see if it works, good idea
Dec 11 2009 9:07AM
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apcaipse
Posts: 2168 - Karma: 25
I'd definitely buy. Even for 9.99.
You should just put in the opening a check box that takes away all liability, so you can't be sued.
Dec 11 2009 9:23AM
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Roy
Posts: 1982 - Karma: 1,240
I'm just wondering wouldn't the amount of pop you have change the calculations. I did noticed you had a parameter for suspension, but how do you quantify wether its a super pop or if you were to suck up competely.
Dec 11 2009 2:02PM
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MNS
Posts: 5386 - Karma: 3,241
how would you know te drag and suspension? i dont think i'd spend 5 grand on that. if you want to make money i'd make an app more appealing to everyone.

i dont think anyone has made an online one. i bet you coudl get one made like farmville and everyone would be all over it.
Dec 11 2009 2:10PM
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gr4
Posts: 1499 - Karma: 945
I think its an awesome idea, but $5000 is way to much money to write the program.  I'd say your best option is to learn to program it yourself.  I took two classes on how to program C++ and then bought a book on iphone programing and was able to at least understand how objective-C (iphone programing language) works.  Im sure if i put some time in it i could write some basic iphone applications like this.  programming isn't as terribly hard as people think it is.
Dec 11 2009 2:22PM
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B-Wald
Posts: 8113 - Karma: 96
this is the problem with the app. the math isn't easy at all. there are so many variables that go into how a jump is going to hit, that it's practically impossible to develop any sort of model. this is the same reason it was stupid that they had a bunch of engineers analyze the jump when that guy got paralyzed up in washington.

it's a good idea, and could be really interesting as an auxiliary to hitting jumps, but there's no way that this should be used as a metric for how a jump should be hit. you'd only be bringing yourself trouble. maybe if testing proves to be accurate, but i don't have much faith in the iphone's gps being capable of this, nor the ability to model it correctly.
Dec 11 2009 2:31PM
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ineedarealname
Posts: 2658 - Karma: 20
my only quesiton is that this thing seems to be under the impression all factors are perfect. what about snow? i know alot of the time depending on the temperature blah blah, my skis go faster or slower, which goes along with what kind of wax ive used, if i have used it at all. wind too.
Dec 11 2009 2:33PM
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*saevioVITA*
Posts: 112 - Karma: 12
it sounds really cool man, i would def buy it and apply it. I mean everyone is saying they wouldnt buy it because they wouldnt want to calculate a jump they wanted to hit, but you wouldnt need to to do it for every jump i would use it if i was hitting a really big kicker or a sketchy jump. anyway my two sense, sounds ill man
Dec 11 2009 3:08PM
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aoe
Posts: 2947 - Karma: 51
Firstly, $5000 is NOT too much at all for what I'm asking. That includes graphic development as well as data collection, namely getting the drag variables (wind resistance), although some drag variables are already available. I am also looking at companies who have engineers on staff who can actually understand what the variables mean and how they should be input. Basically i could get this programmed for $700, but you get what you pay for.

Has anyone ever used a projectile motion simulator? Since last year i've been using one before I even thought about building a jump. I would test the speed and then use that to build the jump as well as calculate things such as air time.

The thing about variables is that they follow the 80/20 principle, meaning you get 80% of your output from 20% of the variables. So you can make an app that is 90% accurate without too much difficulty but to make it 95% accurate might be twice as hard, and to make it 98% accurate might be 5 times as hard and so on.

Also, this is much bigger then just the skiing market. Thing at least skiing, snowboarding, snowmobiling, motocross, bmx,mtv, inline,skate, rally, etc. etc.  That's not saying even the combined market is big enough and why i'm just kinda here discussing the idea instead of building it.

Dec 11 2009 3:15PM
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