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Rant: Let's step back for a minute...

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little_ey
Posts: 609 - Karma: 392
Today's inspiration comes from an excerpt by a speech given by Representative Barbara Lee from the 9th district of California given before Congress on September 14th, 2001.

"Let's step back for a minute, let's just pause just for a minute, to think through the implications of our actions today so that this does not spiral out of control. Let us not become the evil that we deplore."

Today we have celebrated the 40th anniversary of the Apollo 11 lunar landing. It's 40th anniversary! And what have we done since?

AMERICA! we have the capacity, the man power, and the perseverance to do anything... both productive and destructive. We can and must be the change we want and NEED to see in this world. In just 10 years, by the leadership of one STRONG man, an entire nation was inspired to push for what we all deemed impossible. In 10 years from now what do we hope for? For cars to have 10 more miles per gallon???

We can and NEED to do the same thing now as we did 40 years ago.

We need to be oil independent. AND WE CAN BE!

We need nuclear proliferation. And it starts HERE!

We need to support the rights and well beings of ALL Americans. And if NEEDS to start NOW!!

My 9-11 generation (as I named us in 2003 when I gave my class our Salutatorian address) is in a situation where hope is but an ever floating feather, dancing in the wind beyond our grasp. We see the change we need to be in the world, but fail to have the support of the infrastructure to BE that change. Must we wait until our children come along so that we may provide them with the tools, NAY, the HOPE that they need to change humanity? Or are we doomed to repeat the failures of hundreds of generations before us?

We as Americans need to remember to exercise our rights of free speech and assembly before we are to weak to use them. It is our constitutional responsibility to protect the greatness of our country from all enemies, both foreign and ESPECIALLY domestic. It is NEVER unpatriotic to question the decisions of our leaders. In fact, it is our PATRIOTIC DUTY as AMERICANS to insure that they are protecting us, our soldiers, AND our CONSTITUTION by asking constantly if their actions reflect this responsibility. Or are their actions are not protecting us all, but actually causing potential harm to their citizens and the CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA?

AMERICA! We need to become the leaders in INNOVATION. Not the leaders in consumption.

We need to become the leaders in PEACE. Not the leaders in war.

Now what are YOU going to do to be the change that that you want to see in the world?
Jul 21 2009 12:13AM
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Twinjibber77
Posts: 6239 - Karma: 2,356
People are always gonna be stupid and rely on everyone but themselves for decisions to be made. "What can i do?" will always be my question. "No one fucking knows" is tha answer i always get.
Jul 21 2009 2:48PM
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bailer
Posts: 2178 - Karma: 14
and to thread creator. its good that you want change... but i think people's focus should be on getting as much information as possible to make the right changes. dont think because you read one newspaper article on an issue you are seeing all sides.

To come up with real productive solutions to macro level social problems it takes years of thought and research. Academic information is generaly very reliable, still you must read through tons of academic info before you have a solid understanding of a subject. Know the author, think about where they are coming from and know why they are saying what they are. No one should think they understand these problems after watching a youtube video. Solutions that we must follow should have the most benefit for all and that are the most efficient.

IMO: In these recent times its policy that is freidly to business and limits government intervention that have the most benefit to the people living there.
Jul 21 2009 2:48PM
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Drail
Posts: 14011 - Karma: 10,001
every dollar made comes with a dollar debt attached to it. In order for the USA to pay off it's debt it has to pay the equivalent of what it has made.


and i'm not suggesting that you stop exchanging things at all, you totally misunderstood me on that. If you eliminate value based on competing objects, there is more freedom to exchange items and get what you need/want. As long as you are doing something, then the things you want/need will be made available for you. Now, if you try to go the route of the modern day homeless person, you will probably die, because you are offering nothing to society, so society will give nothing in return. Why on Earth would I want people to stop sharing?
Jul 21 2009 2:52PM
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Von
Posts: 4869 - Karma: 21
You should really go to http://mises.org

It's a little confusing to someone who doesn't have a major in econ but its a great site none the less. You have to understand to the anarchist viewpoint or it will just make you mad to read the articles. I think it's admirable that you seek to transform the future by educating kids, I'm not sure that being on a part of a school board is the best way though. This is my opinion, but I think that Government Schools are one of the biggest problems in America and that it will be hard to actually deal with any of our other problems until our children are no longer inculcated by the federal government. In know that is a provocative statement so I'll suggest a short book to read that explains it well.

http://mises.org/story/2226

It really isn't all to long and it is extremely eye opening on education, especially if you already lean towards freedom. And it shows another reason that  mises.org is so amazing, almost anything, any book, any article, anything that the institute publishes or releases can be found there for FREE. 
Jul 21 2009 2:52PM
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Von
Posts: 4869 - Karma: 21
^  that was to the thread creator
Jul 21 2009 2:52PM
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Von
Posts: 4869 - Karma: 21
The reason a musician or artist would have to quit their trade would be because not enough people enjoy their work enough to be willing to give up part of their work (money is a representation of their work) to partake in it. There is nothing wrong with that they are simply saying "I would rather trade my labor and time for some other good" money is simply a  representation of labor and time. Now it sounds like you have a problem with government created or fiat money, which allows money to be created as you said "out of thin air". This indeed is a huge problem and is an impediment to human life. Money being created out of something other than production is worthless and will fail at one point or another.

Honestly go to http://mises.org search for money or fiat money, and start reading I think you will really like what they have to say. 
Jul 21 2009 2:58PM
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bailer
Posts: 2178 - Karma: 14
"There have been many societies in the past that have lived a prosperous life without money or any form of such. "

- Do you have any examples because I dont know of any.

Money is the only thing on this planet that is created out of thin air by humans, and it is the only thing that can disappear at any time, and nothing would change.

- If Money disapeared people wouldnt be able to exchange things and society would stop that second. The recesion right now means the movement of money around the world has slowed. If we just stopped all money the world would be fucked.

Jul 21 2009 2:59PM
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little_ey
Posts: 609 - Karma: 392
you're right YACHT, it is one of the biggest problems for America.  That is why I want to try to start here to change it.  And I know you might not find it productive.  Often times I find myself discouraged that I might not be making any ground.  But when I see where my district is and everything I've helped us be in the past two years, I think that perhaps we are making a difference.  I know you couldn't really understand this, but when I saw one of my elem. schools 5th grade International Bacheloriate presentation, it damn near made me cry.  They were using their critical thinking skills better than many college students.  And I know this is just 60 kids, but that's 60 kids closer.

Trying to inflict change from within the system is hard and takes a lot of patience.  But if most of the problems for America come from its federal programs, wouldn't it make some since to try and start there for change?  To become one of the "decision makers" (who isn't the author of that quote) means that there is one less bought out politician who doesn't really care about those 60 kids.
Jul 21 2009 3:02PM
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Von
Posts: 4869 - Karma: 21
Again that is Fiat Money you're railing against, not true money.

And different objects or "goods" have different value because there are different factors involved in each good. Some of these factors include labor, specialization of labor, resources, scarcity, quantity. All sorts of different things go into the price of a good  and it is very important to the advancement of civilization that this process stays in place. It's simply unarguable.
Jul 21 2009 3:02PM
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Von
Posts: 4869 - Karma: 21
That is amazing, you should really strive to do this but start at the state and local level and focus on what you can do where you are now (which sounds like what you're doing now). That is where real change can occur, when you as an individual can interact positively with other individuals. Don't be to tempted to become part of  the bureaucracy many good meaning people have done so and fall into the mantra that we need more federal spending and control. Do as much as you can as an individual because as I said that is where the real change comes from, not government.

Really read that book, I'd like to hear what you think about it.

And this might sound creeper and all but it would be cool to meet you. I live in CO to over in Grand Junction (eww i know, it's not that bad though).  But whatev really.
Jul 21 2009 3:08PM
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Drail
Posts: 14011 - Karma: 10,001
i'm having a hard time accepting this. When thinking of things that are worth a lot based on their "scarcity, quantity" etc... my head keeps thinking of things like gold, shark fins, oil, diamonds, and all the other valuable things we praise in society, that in all reality - we don't need. they are luxuries that we use to define our own worth.

Now, I do understand that these things (other than the shark fin, of course) do have a use in our world. Gold can be spread extremely thin, and is therefor very useful for a lot of scientific reasons, but that has nothing to do with it's value in society - it simply becomes a tool, much like a hammer or a welding torch, same goes with diamonds, and oil.... well, humans need to get over our oil addiction, it's just not healthy.

food, water, shelter, and mental stimulation (the arts, conversation, exploration, etc) are the only things we need... luxury is human behavior in it's greedy form. What makes a great civilization? the monuments they create, or the rock they chose to create it out of?
Jul 21 2009 3:15PM
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little_ey
Posts: 609 - Karma: 392
nice point.
Jul 21 2009 3:24PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
not to say they arent nice thoughts here guys but lets be realistic. this is never gonna happen.
Jul 21 2009 3:33PM
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Von
Posts: 4869 - Karma: 21
But those things you're railing against like Oil or money are what makes food, water, shelter, and mental stimulation possible on the mass proliferated scale they are today. Food requires someone to produce it, people aren't just going to farm and give their food away because sharing feels good and they think everyone else will share with them to. The farmer want some sort of solid representation that they are sharing their time with another person that is equally willing to share time back. That is what money is, the representation and guarantee of this time shared. It also allows the freedom to choose what you want to get with your labor, instead of just exchanging your labor for the labor of one other person, you are potentially able to share that labor with anyone for any reason because you have a physical representation of it ie Money. Oil has also made life so much more livable on such a mass level. The types of transportation and industrial machines that it has made possible have advanced our civilization in countless ways. Gold is only so valuable because it is such a good unit of exchange, ie money. Really gold is worth so much to people not because it's pretty but because it is so useful as money.

We wouldn't have such a prolific and diverse culture of artists and musicians without the wealth of the society that is able to allow these people to pursue something other than their own basic survival.  
Jul 21 2009 3:46PM
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Von
Posts: 4869 - Karma: 21
Listen to this free audio book called I, Pencil it is a little boring but it's pretty short and the ideas in it are profound,

http://fee.org/featured/i-pencil-audiobook/
Jul 21 2009 3:48PM
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steezeeepolizeee
Posts: 8756 - Karma: 796
Im drunk can someone else think for me
Jul 22 2009 4:32AM
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musick13
Posts: 913 - Karma: 44
YOU, yes you child, you have a very important mission ahead of you.

Go to a very high place and jump.

Mission Accomplished


Jul 22 2009 1:21PM
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spliff.Life
Posts: 7847 - Karma: 1,549
my thoughts before i even opened this thread because a woman posted it!


silly women thinking they know stuff
Jul 22 2009 1:44PM
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little_ey
Posts: 609 - Karma: 392
i Pencil did not take long to listen too, however it does require a GREAT level of sobriety.

Interesting notion behind it though. Which is also why, when one looks up the steep uphill climb that we must conquer to initiate positive change in our nation, we see why it can be so hard... we truly will need MILLIONS of people to stand up and start making their own actions. But perhaps... with enough people to get individually inspired, something can change. ?
Jul 23 2009 12:03AM
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Von
Posts: 4869 - Karma: 21
The change that is needed certainly must involve millions of us. But I think the main point of the book is that no one in the production chain of the pencil really new what they were all working to create. That is the beuaty of the market, that people acting for themselves and for their own good can create mass produced wonders like a pencil, and I feel like its the only way to organize people for effective change.
Jul 23 2009 9:18AM
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neutralzombie
Posts: 8629 - Karma: 606
giving a fuck is way more than your lazy ass is doing. spoiled little bitches.
Jul 23 2009 12:10PM
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jstemp
Posts: 349 - Karma: 3,818

collegehumor.c4a4bcb6248e80ea4dc18bee48c57ecc.jpg

Jul 23 2009 2:28PM
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little_ey
Posts: 609 - Karma: 392
perhaps, such as in iPencil, no organization is necessary to inflict change.  Perhaps, it's just a bunch of people motivated enough to start doing their own things and then after a little while a movement is born of it and change does happen.  ??
Jul 23 2009 3:55PM
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rockymountainmilitia
Posts: 2706 - Karma: 12

I think for real change to take place there has to be some sort of fast and easy reward for instigate people to change. It is hard to grasp the bigger picture and as someone above me stated, the common thought is "one person wont make a difference".

My incentive for change isnt really a reward program, if anything its the opposite.

I think they should start charging homes and business's for the amount of garbage they produce. There would be an allotted allowance of garbage weight for each house and if you go over you pax extra. Think of it like this.

Instead of throwing metal and bottles and whatever into your garbage you would put them in your recycling bin. You dont get charged for recycling weight. People would composte and rethink the amount of biotic waste they throw away. People would start to complain about excessive packaging for groceries and other goods and companies would respond by cutting out all the excess crap like 6 layers of saran wrap.

Pretty simple idea. I havent really put alot of thought into it. As a follow up to this. I am sure that inside of garbage dumps right now is alot of materials that do not need to be there. In both Canada and in the USA we have prisons packed with people who do not benifit society at all and we pay with our taxes to keep them locked up. Why not spend the money to secure garbage dumps and have inmates scour the trash for recyclables and materials which can be reused.

Jul 23 2009 4:25PM
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JstHuckIt
Posts: 422 - Karma: 16
People in general are quite careless now...it is easy to survive...go get a job at Mc D's, go home watch tv, eat free cheesburgers, repeat...

This is why every government CREATES crisis'...the climate crisis', peak oil, war on drugs, housing cisis', ect. ect.... what would need to happen is a sociological change, How people view self worth and societies worth...This is why space is so very important...leaves something to strive and create...This is what I believe humanity is really good at, creation from creativity...the downside, is people don't like drastic change for the most part...the problem is humans as a whole only have a few who are willing to lead and voice their creativity, while the rest are skeptical and rarely well informed...

This is spoken from a libertarian with an economics background and a passion for sociology...
Jul 23 2009 5:04PM
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Von
Posts: 4869 - Karma: 21
Exactly, the point is the change we need is far far to complex for someone or an organization to plan, it has to be brought about by millions of people pursuing their own interests.
Jul 23 2009 5:45PM
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Von
Posts: 4869 - Karma: 21
Thank god another libertarian!
Jul 23 2009 5:46PM
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little_ey
Posts: 609 - Karma: 392
with the complexity of politics and idealism now a days is it even possible to definitively label ourselves with a specific party or ideology?
Jul 23 2009 5:59PM
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little_ey
Posts: 609 - Karma: 392
this thread was to foster debate... if you don't seem to enjoy it's contents or my posts then ignore it and find something else to amuse yourself.

I am starting my change with myself... this is why I ran for public office. This is why I have committed myself to a 4 year, volunteer term. You don't appreciate school board as my way to start and make change, Fine. Do your own thing for your own initiatives. But don't get on other peoples' cases about things they are actually trying to do.

You say "only a college student" as if this has made you so much more superior than me. No one is more superior than anyone. I enjoy getting my masters as i think it will be able to help me do the things i want to do to make a better impact on the world. I am aware too, that there are countless others doing their own changes while only in elementary school.


Jul 23 2009 7:01PM
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freezed
Posts: 12973 - Karma: 500
just to clarify...did you mean nuclear non-proliferation?
Jul 23 2009 7:13PM
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little_ey
Posts: 609 - Karma: 392
yes.
Jul 23 2009 7:20PM
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sstricky
Posts: 1876 - Karma: 111
Click for larger image
Jul 23 2009 9:51PM
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JstHuckIt
Posts: 422 - Karma: 16
I think notifying the problems and issues IS doing something...you have to know what and how to fix before you can fix it...thats the problem right now...most people understand that there is a problem, jst few people know how to fix it...politicians must believe in magic because all they do is throw money at issues and expect something to come from it...
Jul 24 2009 12:47PM
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Dsnov832
Posts: 102 - Karma: 12
"can't stop" looks real sick.
Jul 24 2009 3:48PM
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.KYLE.
Posts: 1891 - Karma: 59
Haha, liberals/commies talking about personal rights, it makes me laugh.
Jul 24 2009 4:45PM
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mcknzbrutal
Posts: 76 - Karma: 38
thank God!
Jul 24 2009 4:50PM
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