NHL PLAYOFFS *OFFICIAL THREAD*

the hawks are going to pull out a win tonight!

ya right

DEVILS

he was right

was that really necessary?

That first period was bullshit for the wings. Its kind of hard to get offensive chances when you are short handed for more then half a period.

the wings are a better team, and will probably end up winning the series. they're a more experienced team for sure. Im just happy that the hawks are contending with them, and capatalizing on the wings mistakes. Go Hawks!!

I hate the fact that they are calling the penalties after the result of the play (should be called as it happens), but Kronwall was definitely looking to kill Havlat. Clean hit, but Havlat looked like he was in the next year or something man.

I'm going to have to disagree on this one.  Knonwall left his skates at the point of contact which has the same effect as an upper-cut punch.  Otherwise there's no way Kronwall could put that much shoulder into Havlat's head like that.

#1 Havlat is 2-3 inches taller than Kronwall (according to their stats).  Under normal circumstances Kronwall's shoulder would make contact with Havlat's chest.  For granted, Havlat is hunched over, trying to maintain puck possession.  But there is still a slight height difference that Kronwall had to overcome.

#2 The picture pretty much tells all.  By the laws of physics, it is simply impossible to move an object off the ground with out some force greater than the force of gravity acting on it.  Kronwall's skates both left the ice, and are in fact above the yellow strip on the boards.  We're not talking about 1 inch off the ground here.  And I think we can agree that Havlat didnt push the 2 of them off the ground... because let's face it, he had no idea what the fuck was going on let alone had time to even think about jumping.

In my opion it's a charge.

That picture shows a lot more going on in the play. Your right on the charge, I just wish they would've called the penalty during the play rather than seeing the consequences and calling it after.

Yea no shit. Like if he got a charge i would still be pissed, but no call and then 5 minutes AND a game?

Khabibulin was injured. I don't see Havlat coming back anytime soon either. Definitely a big concussion.

FUCKIN' RIGHT PENS!!!

Eric Staal Who?

Kronwall's hit was clean. You can't call a charge based on him falling over after he initiates the hit. Watch the video, when he starts his feet are planted on the ice. A charge involves your feet leaving the ice before you initiate contact. The puck was in his feet so it definitely wasn't interference, which was what they "called" (after the fact). It was a bad call. Everyone knew it right away. Any opinion to the contrary is either homerism or a lack of understanding about the game.

Game set and match gentlemen.

so, vicious but not dirty. ill agree to that

So at the very moment you make contact with a player you are allowed to jump into them?  There is no jumping in hockey.  I have seen"that photo you posted as well.  The hit is an "Upper-cut" as i previously mentioned. It really does hit the gray area to what is clean and what is dirty.  There is no doubt in my mind that knonwall used his legs to provide an upward force into Havlat's head, as the photo i posted shows.  He initiated the upward jump at the split second he made contact with Havlat.  Kronwall's feet are not off the ground from "falling" into Havlat.  You fall down, not up.  His skates are above the yellow line on the boards.

Some can call it clean.  It's a charge in my mind. 

The interference is also debatable.  The puck was at Havlat's feet, and he never even touched it.  I have no idea how you can call that posession, which can justify him a target for headhunting.  Under those circumstances, you could crush any defenseman standing at the top of the crease during a shot to the net.  If the puck is 12 inches from a person you can hit them?  The refs won't even blow a delayed penalty dead for simply being near or touching a puck.

Don Cherry and his crusaders can criticize people for pussifying the league, but I hate watching quality skil players fall victim to plays like this.  What in the world could Havlat have done to prevent this... not skate up the boards... tell the defense not to send the break out to him... ignor the puck and throw the elbow up into oncoming Kronwall?  When you spend your entire playing career in the minor leagues to  start thinking about killing people all game.

So your saying if a guy gets a suicide pass at center ice, looks at it and lets it glide between his legs, if he gets hit it should be interference? Those types of plays are what defenseman dream of.The defenseman is anticipating where he is going to be right when he starts stepping up and the difference between him touching the puck and not touching the puck at that speed doesnt make a difference because he is going to hit him anyway. Even if he doesnt "hit" him there is still going to be a nasty collision. What would you like Kronwall to do? Stop when he sees that havlat didnt touch the puck? Good hitters dont glide into a hit they keep their feet moving like Kronwall does that is why he has no much forward momentum and blows right through people when he hits them.

well in all honestly, that's the risk that the defenseman lining up for the hit takes now isn't it... he's timing when the player will receive the pass... and well quite frankly... if he hits him before he "receives" the pass... then he is interfering with him.  The defenseman is taking a chance at making a hit, versus interfering with the player.

I don't even know where to start with how wrong you are. You really need to watch this game for about 10 more years before you can start talking about it with this kind of authoritative tone because you really don't know.

First, there's no jumping in hockey? That's absurd. Of course there is. Players jump all the time for all sorts of reasons. I believe there's a certain legendary goal by Bobby Orr that in itself proves you wrong. If Kronwall had wanted to "jump" after hitting Havlat, he would be well within his rights to do so as there is no rule against it. As long as both feet are on the ice when contact is initiated it's not a charge. That's how it's always been and how it should always be.

Second, a little lesson in gravity. When two forces collide they will take the path of least resistance. "You don't fall up"... watch two waves hit each other. The amplitude increases. It's simple physics: if you have your feet planted, you can't go down, there's ice, bone and muscle providing resistance. You can't go backwards because of momentum carrying you forwards. You can't go forward because you ran into the other player. So, you bounce up, because gravity provides the least resistance. If you'd ever thrown a hard hit in your life you'd know this. But it's true in all situations: crash a car into another car at high speeds and both with leave the ground momentarily. If Kronwall had jumped, he would've ended up a lot higher off the ice.

But the interference stuff is what most plainly shows that you don't understand the game. If the puck is even NEAR a player, you are well within your rights to hit them. Imagine if you couldn't clear the crease until Tomas Holmstrom had touched the puck. The guy would score 100 goals a season. Interference is contact away from the play. The puck is right next to him. Whether he has it on his stick or not does not matter. That is how the game is played, if you don't like it, change the channel.

What could Havlat do? KEEP HIS GOD DAMNED HEAD UP. He had it down as he was approaching the blue line. Ask RJ Umberger or Shane Willis how that works out for you in the playoffs. If he'd seen it coming he could have avoided it or at least prepared himself (again, if you'd ever taken a big hit you'd know what a difference that makes).

"That's the risk the defenseman takes"... go watch the KHL or something. Defensemen do not have to worry about whether or not the player is going to suddenly decide at the last minute he doesn't want to touch the puck and thereby draw a penalty. That's an incredibly stupid position, first because it would sucker people into taking penalties they don't deserve, and second because it would in fact take all open-ice hitting out of the game. Defensemen play the man, not the puck. If you start looking where the puck is, "oh shit, Malkin just pantsed me and scored again." That is contrary to the entire physical element of hockey. I shouldn't have to explain this to you, it's patently obvious to anyone who has any understanding of the game.

Repeat after me: hitting is a skill too! It's a big part of the game. There are other sports for you if you want to watch skilled athletes and no contact. Open ice hits are as important as goals to change the momentum of a game or a series. Take that away and hockey's just not as much fun to watch anymore.

Watch this video. Notice the difference between when Stevens hits from the side, versus when he hits dead on, as he does in #4 and almost head on in #3. When both players are coming from opposite directions, he ends up a few inches in the air. Clean, devastating hits. No penalties. Nor should there be.

ok. #'s 7, 5, 2, and 1 in this video are all flying elbows

amazingly clean hit

This is an issue of the Law of Conservation of Momentum.  2 colliding players have momentums.  The center of mass of an object will continue in it's current direction of velocity, unless acted upon by an external force.  Forces are vectors.  They have X, Y, and Z axis components.  When 2 waves collide the amplitude increases because the waves already have an Y (up-down) vector component (aka amplitude).  And in fact, when 2 waves collide at a "node" with 0 amplitude, nothing happens.  2 players skating on a 2 dimension plane (the ice) have an X vector component.  The only Y component they have acting on them at the moment is the force of gravity, which is negated by the normal force exerted by the ice.  It is actually physically impossible to make something go "up" in the Y direction with out exerting a force on a mass that exceeds (9.8 m/s^2) x (mass).  There is no "path of lease resistance".  Technically, opposing forces in the X direction would collide and disperse force through, various means such as, compression of padding/skin, breaking of bones, until the normal force based of structural integrity equaled the applied forces in the X direction.

This can be most easily simulated dropping a brick/ball/something onto a flat surface.  Does the brick follow "the path of least resistance" in the X direction to disperse the force?  No it only has a Y vector.  The flat surface will be compressed/break/cause the brick to recoil back upwards.  In order to get 2 players off the ground to that extent, someone must provide the Y force vector.  Even if Kronwall pulled his legs up behind him, he would begin falling to the ice at a rate of 9.8 m/s^2.  Not traveling upward.

You are over analyzing this way to much.

huet has got to be kidding me.

De_stroyed

I'm loosing alot of respect for the Hawks. After every check the wings had, they always had to have an unnecessary shove or slash back. It was terrible sportsmanship on their end, esspecially the way versteeg kept trying to get Kronwall to fight in retalitation for game 3's CLEAN hit, even though Kronwall wanted no part of it. And i'm not trying sound like I dont like a good physical game of hockey, because I do. I just wish the hawks could keep it clean, they're starting to look like a bunch of punks.

Not even REMOTELY close to the same thing.

-Kronwall left his feet as he was about to impact.


-Campbell on Umberger 2 years ago never left his feet.


Those hits were vastly different in my eyes with the main difference being the leaving of the feet before impact.

Campbell was barely moving when he hit Umberger. He does "bounce" a bit, but not enough to take him clear off the ice. Watch the Stevens vid again above, when he's not moving or comes in from the side, he stays on the ice. When he hits head on while skating, he pops up off the ice. Peca used to have the same thing happen all the time, he'd be firmly planted when he hit the other player but go flying on the follow through... but that's not charging. It's the moment of impact that matters. And the picture above clearly shows that at that moment, Kronwall wasn't in the air.

Have you guys actually PLAYED hockey?

hawks are very dirty man

why yes, i have. 8 years in fact.

^^^^ (In regards to skierx. it wont let me quote that post for some reason.)

Yeah Pens!!!!

9 day lay offs are sweeet.

no, cuz now they get to win here tomorrow

yeah we really need khabi back

Holy shit, sid, you crazy.

LET'S GO PENS! LET'S GO PENS! LET'S GO PENS! LET'S GO PENS! LET'S GO CAPSLOCK! LET'S GO PENS! LET'S GO PENS! LET'S GO PENS! LET'S GO PENS!

.

dont even bother, wings have it on lockdown

yeah well im the warden, and your pussy's on lockdown

hahahaha

FUCK YEAH WINGS!!!!

thought just maybe possibly that it could be a cinderella story.. but alas for it is not. good luck in the stanley cup wings.

i thought the hawks were gonna win it there after kane made that sick goal but the wings played well. and huet suprisingly played really well. lets go pens!

same story different year

I dont know how the final score was only 2-1. Score should have been 3-0 after 10 mins into the first. Props to the hawks tho.

pens red wings finals           it's going to be a better series than last year because the pens are more expireinced