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Companies re-branding product. Happens all the time.

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hemlockjibber8
Posts: 5953 - Karma: 3,450
As I said I would in the CoreUPT Q&A article I would make a list of companies that rebrand everyone elses product. Just to show you how common it is.

Note that: CoreUPT is using Dynastar molds but changing the flex, bases, and graphics, then coming out with their own molds next year. Just so that doesn't start again.

OK

BOOTS:

1. Lange makes Rossignol and Roxy.

-The vast majority of Rossignol's and Roxy's boots. Notice the Banshee and Bsquads similarities. Identical, except for a piece of carbon fibre Rossi puts in and the Booster strap Lange uses. All the gear guides BS about Rossi creating this vibram sole for hiking? BS.

2. Nordica makes Head Mojo JO Pro.

-The Head Mojo boot with the crazy graphics? Noridca Dobermann. As well the Dobermann designer makes the Atomic Race boots (and the Nuke). While I can't say for sure they are from the same mold, definitely the same designer.

Boot molds cost $300,000 each to make. Very costly. Makes sense with all the research put it too.

BINDINGS:

1. Naxo makes Dynastar's touring binding.

2. Salomon makes Atomic's freestyle bindings. Atomic used to use the old P18s for their team and rebrand them.

3. Look and Rossignol's are identical, now so are CoreUPT's.

4. Tyrolia makes Fischer's and 4FRNT's bindings. It seems like Tyrolia changed names to Head, but same shit. I think Movement uses it as well. This one confuses me that so many people would want to use this binding.

Bindings as well take a lot of development and I am sure are costly to produce. Make's sense.

GOGGLES:

1. Scott makes Atomic's and Peak Performance's goggles.

2. A lot of companies have their lenses made by Smith and Oakley.


None of this is secret. It's quite obvious if you even look at the products. Just putting it out there because people seem to be freaking about it like it's never happened before. This list was made in 5 minutes, I am quite sure there are a lot more boots too.


Nov 4 2008 9:16PM
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Trojan~Man
Posts: 1996 - Karma: 1,357
i knew about most of that stuff but other was new but not srprising....if anyone else knowas anything this is pretty interesting.
Nov 4 2008 9:23PM
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EMK
Posts: 1632 - Karma: 669
yeah but this is like the whole range. thats not normal. i'm not bothered by it i wouldn't have been able to buy the skis whatever they were like. just sayin.
Nov 4 2008 9:26PM
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hemlockjibber8
Posts: 5953 - Karma: 3,450
this isnt about coreupt, well sorta.

A whole range?
Try Roxy and Rossignol skis.
Try Rossignol, Roxy, and Lange boots.
Try Head, Tyrolia, Fischer, 4FRNT, and Movement Bindings

They changed the flex. When you are jumping and skiing pow, flex makes a hell of a lot bigger difference than a meter turn radius. Obviously shape makes a huge difference, but for skis that are designed for the same thing and are virtually the same shape, flex is huge.
Nov 4 2008 9:32PM
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Klick_2_klaim
Posts: 3396 - Karma: 25
dragon goggles are just what oakley threw in the trash.
betchya didnt know that.
Nov 4 2008 9:43PM
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huge-go
Posts: 1451 - Karma: 33
What you explained is not rebranding. Rossignol's boors are made by lange, but the the boots still fit differently, because they are rossi's idea of how a boot should fit. That is not rebranding. Rebranding is what movement, and rossi do with the px/axial2. Exact same binding, different color/name. 4frnt skis were made in the elan factory. Would you consider 4frnt's rebranded elans?

And to add, I think the "rebranded dynastar" thing is just a reason to hate on coreupt. If I'm not mistaken, armada did the same thing with atomic skis. What matters is what they will do in the future to be successful and how innovative they try to be.
Nov 4 2008 9:45PM
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Blandct
Posts: 1858 - Karma: 37
Try Head, Tyrolia, Fischer, 4FRNT, and Movement Bindings and i wanna say Elan? i know they did a one point
Nov 4 2008 9:46PM
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Franny
Posts: 3980 - Karma: 77
Cheerios re-branded honey nut cheerios!!
Nov 4 2008 9:48PM
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hemlockjibber8
Posts: 5953 - Karma: 3,450
not exactly true. But Oakley makes their lenses.
Nov 4 2008 9:53PM
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huge-go
Posts: 1451 - Karma: 33
Don't forget about amplid for the tyrolia bindings. And movement uses look bindings.
Nov 4 2008 9:53PM
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hemlockjibber8
Posts: 5953 - Karma: 3,450
ah, thats what it was.
Nov 4 2008 9:54PM
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ripthis
Posts: 137 - Karma: 10
Well its pretty simple, if you are a huge company with a factory and shit to make product, and another company comes to you saying "can you make our shit here, we'll pay you" why not? Same as from a small companys perspective, if you cant afford a factory and the means to make it yourself, you get one of the pros to do it for you
Nov 4 2008 9:57PM
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babujib
Posts: 5039 - Karma: 104
i just really hope that coreUPT goes back to the metal swivel on the look bindings, they were so much more sturdy
Nov 4 2008 9:57PM
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hemlockjibber8
Posts: 5953 - Karma: 3,450
This is rebranding. Putting your name on another companies product.

As for Look/Rossi? The Banshee and the BSquad are the exact same shell. EXACT FIT. The only difference is that Rossi puts a layer of Carbon fibre in the upper cuff for a different rebound. The do this with a lot of boots, not all though. The liners are different, but the real fit of a boot comes from the shell anyways.

The orange Lange Freeride 120s and the green Rossi Bsquads from two years ago... Any plastic on the Rossi boot came from the Lange mold. Identical. They even used Langes red rubber boot board, same buckles too. The only difference? Lange put a rubberized powerstrap on their boot.

As for Armada, the skinny skis were pressed in the Elan factory. They had completely different shapes, cores, graphics, everything. Not rebranding. A lot of people say a few years later, Elan used the 2nd Gen AR5 mold to make the first gen MO2. There are no Armada and Atomic skis that have the same shape. Atomic pressed the fat Armadas at one point.

Once again, 4FRNT and Elan do not share shapes. so no.

Would you consider the Skis that Option pressed for 4FRNT to be rebranded Options, or Line being rebranded K2s? There is a difference between same factory and same ski.
Nov 4 2008 10:03PM
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phishfood
Posts: 2542 - Karma: 298
well if any company is gonna bring back the swivel heel bindings, i guess it would be coreupt?
Nov 4 2008 10:06PM
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hemlockjibber8
Posts: 5953 - Karma: 3,450
that depends on the availability of the molds.
Nov 4 2008 10:22PM
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Jballz
Posts: 1638 - Karma: 79
its like a g version of regifting
Nov 4 2008 10:27PM
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wiglaf
Posts: 4877 - Karma: 141
After this year does coreUPT plan on designing their own skis or just use dynastar molds with different top sheets?
Nov 4 2008 10:27PM
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hemlockjibber8
Posts: 5953 - Karma: 3,450
please go to the magical home page and in the big news section, under #2 there will be a big article, with video words (don't worry) answering that for you. It is called CoreUPT Q n A

sweet lord
Nov 4 2008 10:40PM
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hollygrove
Posts: 7845 - Karma: 93
rossignol and dynastar are owned by the same company, yes. however, they are not the IDENTICAL ski. Not at all atually.
Nov 4 2008 11:16PM
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wiglaf
Posts: 4877 - Karma: 141
i saw that yesterday but only the 1st video worked for me

sweet lord
Nov 4 2008 11:23PM
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huge-go
Posts: 1451 - Karma: 33
That's exactly what I said. I thought you were saying that all this stuff that's made by the same factory is just rebranded. I'll reread your post, but I could have swore that's what you said. And what about the sensor3 project that rossi did with the boots. Lange makes the lower of the boots, but they are not the same. I won't argue about this too heavily, because I could be wrong. But what I was getting at is what you just stated, same factory and same product are completely different things.
Nov 4 2008 11:57PM
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hemlockjibber8
Posts: 5953 - Karma: 3,450
i never said that
Nov 5 2008 7:55PM
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iJib
Posts: 317 - Karma: 90
i thought VIST made the 4frnt movemebt bindings etc etc.
Nov 5 2008 8:01PM
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huge-go
Posts: 1451 - Karma: 33
VIST made 4frnt, amplid, and movement last season. This season 4frnt and amplid moved to tyrolia, and movement is now with the look platform.
Nov 5 2008 8:12PM
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hemlockjibber8
Posts: 5953 - Karma: 3,450
your 4frnt/elan comparison was different from your lange/rossi comparision, because rossi does rebrand and 4frnt doesnt.

I'm not sure what the sensor 3 thing is that rossi did, I haven't seen their entire line up but I can tell you that the Rossi BSQUAD Carbon Pro 130 and the Rossi SAS Pro BC Compososite are made from the Lange Banshee Pro last (mold). Same shell, same boot. I don't know if you mean lower as in lower boot or the lower end range of boots. In the aforementioned boots, both the upper cuffs and the lower boot are the same. Just because they have lange laminate a piece of carbon fibre in the upper cuff doesn't mean its not the same thing.
Nov 5 2008 8:21PM
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*steph*
Posts: 729 - Karma: 45
CoreUPT's entry into the industry doesn't sit too well for me due to 2 main reasons that go hand-in-hand: 1) A lack of effort and 2) Poor management of resources.

In terms of using Dynastar molds, that in itself is not terrible, but it is quite a week effort from a company that has money and abundant resources. Comparing to Armada being similar to Rossis 5 years ago is not a fair comparison though. At that time, the freeskiing industry was relatively young and there were not that many companies involved in twin tips. However, the industry is much more mature (obviously far from entirely matured) today and much more is expected from new companies. There are new independent ski companies emerging each year. Take Moment for example, they are only in their 2nd true year at market and have a broad range of 16 skis, each entirely with their own molds/designs and pressed in-house. Judging by the athletes CoreUPT has signed, clearly they have more monetary resources than Moment. They just lack the dedication and passion to spend the time to develop their own skis with a unique perspective.

That brings me to the way they entered the industry. It feels almost as if they did not go about it in a respectful way. Calling themselves CoreUPT/Corrupt is pretty indicative in itself, and they seemingly were snatching up big names out of nowhere. Of course the athletes are sick, but it feels like they're trying to build a lot of clout without the product to back it up. As mentioned earlier, their product is far from new or innovative.

With that said, I don't wish for them to fail or anything, in fact I'd be happy if they managed to change my opinion of them... but I have a bad first impression, that's all.
Nov 5 2008 8:23PM
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Peter.
Posts: 23796 - Karma: 13,012
for some reason, the amplid binders look like marker bindings
Nov 5 2008 8:44PM
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blindside
Posts: 5619 - Karma: 1,199
Aero chunky bars are rebranded mirage bars.
Nov 5 2008 10:41PM
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mackinnon
Posts: 5153 - Karma: 156
haven't you noticed that all look, rossi, and dynastar bindings look exactly the same?

this is kind of old news, and either way, who really even cares?
Nov 5 2008 10:49PM
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A_Davis
Posts: 601 - Karma: 21
dnL is rebranded 7up. i dont think its still made but its rebranded
Nov 5 2008 10:52PM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,682
pepsi is re-branded coke. ya I said it.
Nov 5 2008 11:00PM
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hollygrove
Posts: 7845 - Karma: 93
amplid' are made by tyrolia as well.
good.
best bindings on the market, and the more of them around, the better.
Nov 6 2008 1:05AM
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huge-go
Posts: 1451 - Karma: 33
I said that 4frnt does not rebrand. Lange and rossi I'm not sure, but to me to rebrand boots does not make sense. I did mean lower as in the last. I thought you were saying that because some things are in the same factory they're rebranded, I was differentiating same factory and rebranding. And I'm pretty sure lange makes the lasts for rossi, not just gives them lange lasts to paint rossignol on. If we can get a boot fitter to tell me the lasts are the same, I'll shut up. But to rebrand boots does not make sense to me, Bindings are different.
Nov 6 2008 1:36AM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,141
The guy you're talking to was a bootfitter for surefoot for years, in the top 5 if not the single best bootfitting shop in the world. So I guess you'll be shutting up now?

He's saying that aside from minor details, there are multiple rossi boot models that are identical to the banshee. And he's right. The thing is, Brian, that a number of the companies you mention don't deal with each other at arm's length, either via affiliation or some other organizational setup. CoreUPT and Dynastar are different entities. Personally I don't think it matters anyway; the skis will be fine and you now have 2 graphical and flex pattern choices for all the Dynastar twins, so take the one you like more. Next year, there will be a full line of unique molds for CoreUPT. I'm not feeling the "call-out" urge on these guys. They're not trying to hide anything or pass off their molds as something other than what they are: rebranded Dynastar with a different flex pattern (which as you point out does make a significant difference). If you're straight up with people about that and keep things down to earth, I see no cause for hate.
Nov 6 2008 2:30AM
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[youngblood74]
Posts: 10 - Karma: 10

A few years ago, when Salomon was making the X-free or something, they just changed the colour and sold it half the price because it was too expensive for them to make researches to create a more affordable ski. Those two pairs were sold at a different price the same year.

Nov 6 2008 2:52AM
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BRMN
Posts: 439 - Karma: 14
dude stop talking. ok that was harsh. u are right in some aspects but off on alot. i work at a shop that carries all these brands u speak of and ur info is wrong. sorry. so stop talking and acting like u know cuz u dont.
Nov 6 2008 3:50AM
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Static
Posts: 8491 - Karma: 4,059
dnL was not the same as 7up, different recipe/formula/flavor
Nov 6 2008 8:34AM
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minty
Posts: 317 - Karma: 11
wow you worked in a shop along with half of the other people on this site so you know best, gooood for youuuuu


and J.D. coreupt is dynastar is rossignol is quiksilver its pretty obvious, and they might as well just say it. Candide.....first sick rider on coreupt, one of the highest paid athletes in the sport, previously rode for rossi skis and still rides for quiksilver outerwear....hmmmmmmmmm

why the hell would you release your core brand to the world before you came out with your own shapes?
Nov 6 2008 9:41AM
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freeskibum82
Posts: 6355 - Karma: 5,055
lets just hand it to all the parent companies.. they know how to market.. wow.. you picked up on they are all the same.. surprise surprise... this happens in every market.. where i work, we buy clothing from a distributer that stitch our labels in them and then we mark it up in price and sell as our own. same goes for electronics and sneakers.. live with it.. and im happy Core UPT is owned by quiksilver corp cause they have a great corporate structure and keep producing great products whether it be on rossi, dyna, or coreupt.. ive owned every twintip from rossi and dyna and will prolly get a coreupt to see how it works out as well. cant go wrong with anything candide rides.
Nov 6 2008 9:56AM
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Reaps
Posts: 590 - Karma: 24
IMO, there is alot wrong with what you have said.
You cannot say their is a lack of effort from CoreUPT. Just because Moment has their own molds and presses in-house doesn't mean they have or have-not put in more effort either.             

"2nd true year at market" ? What did Moment do their first year... did they have all new skis and moulds and presses... it sounds like they did. Where did those Skis/Moulds come from... they spent a year designing and developing them.... So maybe their first year is really their second year as a company?   The only difference is Coreupt has decided to sell some Dynastar-shaped-Coreupt skis during the time they are designing the new CoreUPT skis. Sounds like a little more effort has been put in, but maybe not, we can't really tell by reading NS forums!

"They just lack the dedication and passion to spend the time to develop their own skis with a unique perspective." ? CoreUPT are designing and developing their designs as we speak, to be ready for next year. Maybe they didn't form their company at the ideal time to bring a new product to the ski market for this year, so their timing is geared to release new stuff next season. It is not rocket science!

I'm not a CoreUPT supporter or anything like that, it's just your post seemed ignorant and bothered me.
Nov 6 2008 10:07AM
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Klick_2_klaim
Posts: 3396 - Karma: 25
I heard they bought tham at a repo auction...
Nov 6 2008 10:18AM
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J.Strain
Posts: 235 - Karma: 146
i think i remember hearing that they dont make those anymor because the mold was lost?
Nov 6 2008 10:45AM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,141
That dude just owned himself, no need to even respond to him.

I know it looks like coreupt is obviously another affiliate of all of those brands, and it looks suspicious that Candide switched all of a sudden, but they really are totally different companies, believe me. I assumed the same thing you did at the beginning (seems pretty clear cut), but was later corrected.
Nov 6 2008 7:56PM
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hemlockjibber8
Posts: 5953 - Karma: 3,450
Jd, that's joel.

Joel, get off newschoolers and facebook. Your in norway for fucks sake. haha
Nov 6 2008 8:16PM
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hemlockjibber8
Posts: 5953 - Karma: 3,450
I bootfitted at Surefoot. They sell the most Lange boots in the world in the world. You don't have to shut up though, that's just mean.

As I said, it's not all Rossi boots. I gave you specific examples.

I am not mistaken on this info and I'm not trying to shock the world, as I said, it's not a secret. This isn't about Coreupt so much. I'm not calling them out either. That was part of the point.
Really I first thought about this thread when I read for the Rossi SAS pro BC:

"Billed as 'the first true professional backcountry freestyle boot that offers comfort without sacrificing power and feel.' Vibram soles give extra grip for baxkcountry kicker sessions and also work in AT bindings, a growing need few mainstream companies are addressing." -SBC gear guide

and thought to myself, huh, that's funny, that same shit is on a Lange boot which mold Rossi usedl, yet they claim it.
Nov 6 2008 8:25PM
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hemlockjibber8
Posts: 5953 - Karma: 3,450
blow me
Nov 6 2008 8:27PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,141
I know that, I'm just saying, I thought the same thing too, but it ain't so.
Nov 6 2008 9:06PM
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huge-go
Posts: 1451 - Karma: 33

If you bootfitted, then I'll take your word for it.  That just seems like suck a waste to rebrand boots.

Nov 6 2008 10:56PM
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