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April, 2024

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$700 BAILOUT PLAN FAILS TO PASS

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slaydave
Posts: 1697 - Karma: 62

HAAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

Sep 29 2008 2:11PM
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comeatmebro
Posts: 10720 - Karma: 66
i'd kind of like to know what all was said and included in the bailout plan. i'd be willing to bet that congress just slapped some quick fix bullshit together. i'm kind of torn between if we really needed it or not. i mean yeah, we are down the shitter now but that is just straight socialist bullshit if it passes...
Sep 29 2008 6:01PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429

Early in the House debate, Jeb Hensarling, Republican of Texas, said he intended to vote against the package, which he said would put the nation on “the slippery slope to socialism.” He said that he was afraid that it ultimately would not work, leaving the taxpayers responsible for “the mother of all debt.”

Another Texas Republican, John Culberson, spoke scathingly about the unbridled power he said the bill would hand over to the Treasury secretary, Henry M. Paulson Jr., whom he called “King Henry.”


A third Texan, Lloyd Doggett, a Democrat, said the negotiators had “never seriously considered any alternative” to the administration’s plan, and had only barely modified what they were given. He criticized the plan for handing over sweeping new powers to an administration that he said was to blame for allowing the crisis to develop in the first place.


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/30/business/30bailout.html?_r=1&pagewanted=2&bl&ei=5087&en=78e47e85adbe5725&ex=1222833600&oref=slogin

people from both sides of the ile voted against this, and JD is shitting himself is he blames this all on republicans, it is on the heads of everyone who voted against it, there were a number of people from BOTH sides who voted against it.

Sep 29 2008 6:02PM
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ferrinski86
Posts: 774 - Karma: 10
first. thank you for pointing out that last statement. it didnt get passed for many reasons but it has so much to do with this is a presidential year. we are so close to the election that i fear the party lines will stop us from getting anywhere close where we need to be.

second, we should stop arguing over this stupid partisan issue in the house. who blames who, who didnt vote and for what reason. STOP THE DAM arguing, this is just what it is like in the actual congress, arguing over nothing that is anywhere close to important. i watched party of the houses session and it pisses me off that theses politicians get up and thank each other for the opportunity to speak and how they are getting along! We all know that this is bullshit. this country is far to politically retarded for any piece of solid legislation to pass.

third, most of you know that i am for this legislation, but am strongly torn on my decision. a part of me doesnt give a rats ass if these companies fail, its not my fault they made the mistakes they did and i believe in a capitalistic state. on the other hand, we need "stability" in the markets and we are far too along to just let this slide. the only way for the market to "stabilize" without the governments help now is to crash causing a severe recession or depression in this country. i personally believe we need to pass this even though it goes against my strongest beliefs.

fourth, european and asian markets were just as far down today as we were. (actually the asian market was the worst, coming from the bank failures in Europe. the markets could loose thousands of more points during the next couple of days.

Fifth, i was just over at our US Bank headquarters talking to the branch president and he was saying he couldnt believe they didnt pass this yet. he blamed it on the greed and political advancement of our so called "elected representatives."

And yes, im pissed at both sides of the party lines, especially the dam republicans everybody is talking about.

you must realize this true importance of this mess we are in. im curious to see how it will play out.
Sep 29 2008 6:10PM
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Silence
Posts: 16030 - Karma: 149
I wouldn't say this is a laughing matter..this is very serious.

There needs to be some intervention and then they ultimately need to re-regulate the financial system. I very much don't think the economy can just get out of this on its own..it's disappointing.

Credit markets will essentially seize up now, and you are probably going to see interest rates increase fairly sharply. You are fucked if you are a consumer or business needing money for ordinary day-to-day business activities.

This affects FAR more than the US, too.
Sep 29 2008 6:13PM
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flippintricker
Posts: 2408 - Karma: 9
WE all seem to know how to take care of a country, but as far as taking care of ourselves or acting out our own advice we're just as fucked as they are. there has to be a serious moral change whereby doing the smart thing (such as getting a mortgage you can afford) is actually considered the best one to do (having a small house but having money).

Also, canadians is slighty smarter than yous americans, but only because you'd beat us up if we told you how much smarter than you we actually are.
Sep 29 2008 6:14PM
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bermbuster49
Posts: 7445 - Karma: 90
dude beat.  i wonder if there IS a crash and a recession and all what the effects would be like....
Sep 29 2008 6:16PM
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papasteeze
Posts: 12055 - Karma: 911
JD  quit making your self look so smart with your god-awful self righteousness and tell us why, if you are so smart, that nearly the same number of Democrats as Republican-  NINETY SIX OF TWO HUNDRED TWENTY EIGHT!  opposed this bill.


Sep 29 2008 6:21PM
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bailer
Posts: 2178 - Karma: 14
Poeple need to stop calling the bailout Socialist! All of my Econ proffs agree that the bailout should have happened (and cant believe it didnt), and I guarentee you, they sure as FUCK arnt Socialist. READ THIS:
http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2008/09/25/is-the-bailout-socialist-not-even-close/

I find it ironic peopel are laughing about this not going through. Once you move out of your parents basement and into the real world you arnt going to be laughing at all.
Sep 29 2008 6:31PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,141
As I already explained, and as you'd already know if you'd been paying ANY attention to the process, the negotiation for this bill included, at all stages, that it would be bipartisan: that x number of democrats would vote for it (140 at the end) and that x number of Republicans would vote for it (80 at the end). This was agreed upon by BOTH sides throughout the process. In the end, the Democratic party supplied the votes they agreed to, the Republican party did not. Keep in mind that this entire measure was proposed by a Republican administration, which is not something that can be easily sold to the majority of Democrats in Congress, but it was sold to about 2/3 of them, and it was the Republican leadership that last night couldn't get an accurate whip count and this morning failed to deliver.

Do you understand yet, or should I explain it another few times? Seriously, if you had any idea what was going on this would be old news to you.

I don't believe the whole "we're pissed at Pelosi because we didn't like her partisan speech so we'll sulk over here and vote against something we think America needs" BS anyway. I honestly don't think the Republicans had the votes, they didn't convince enough members that this was the best thing to do (largely because voting for this really unpopular measure was not going to gain them votes and they're running for re-election). It's a failure of leadership more than anything else... thanks again for that unifying voice, by the way, McCain.
Sep 29 2008 6:33PM
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papasteeze
Posts: 12055 - Karma: 911
Oh wow.....   You are right!   Shit..  I wonder why I pass you on I95 each day,  you have been going to work on the floor of the house organizing who was supposed to vote yay and nay amongst your liberal bleeding hearts party.

Boy did you fuck up,  just like the rest of you blind finger pointers in the house, while you were stroking yourself over the new democratic presidency, you forgot to check what the other side was doing and adjust your beloved parties vote proportionately.   dumb democrats. 

I am so disappointed in you,  I thought you were one of the smart one.
Sep 29 2008 6:46PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,141
Uh... yeah, real dumb of the Democrats to trust that the Republicans would have their house in order and hold up their end of the deal. You can't just "figure out" what's going on in the other party, as I said, the Rs couldn't even get an accurate whip count last night; even THEY didn't know how many votes they had, but the line remained "we're optimistic this will pass". Well it didn't pass. That's either the fault of the wavering R members who were going to vote for it but didn't, the President for completely failing to sell this plan to the American People leading members on both sides to fear voting for it for political reasons, or the R leadership for failing to... well... lead.
Sep 29 2008 6:51PM
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ferrinski86
Posts: 774 - Karma: 10
i really like your advice. as i stated earlier, i was talking with our US bank president today and he supports the bill to be passed and couldn't believe it didn't pass. all our stock brokers couldn't believe it didn't pass. by no means is this being socialist, its a business decision to stabilize our market and buy MBS that are bad. we need to get our credit lines unfrozen and get the money flowing back into the market. i would rather take the chance that this bill would fail instead of not doing anything. last time we did nothing and our country went into a great depression (im not saying its that bad yet but its getting close for more reasons than just this financial market mess)
Sep 29 2008 6:53PM
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roor
Posts: 946 - Karma: -80
I blame it on the democrats because about ten years ago they passed a bill that disallowed banks to require a down payment and also not to do a background check which would clearly state their income and job stability, all because they thought it was racest (sp) .

So poor people took out a lone from a big fancy house they could not afford, with the current economic slump they were unable to pay their morgage (sp), going into bankruptcy. So the bank acquired the  property in sold it at great loss to them in a nonfunctional housing market. So the banks were losing so much money them too declared bankruptcy.

So NS the same people that created this economic resesion  are going to get "free money" as part of the tax cuts from   Obama  even though they do not pay taxes because they dont meet the cirteria.


Also these people are taking away from you the tax payer because they are lazy and won't get a job, so they decide to "pimp" the welfare system, creating a need for more taxes which takes more money from your pay check.

/ rant sorry for the spelling im sooo baked
Sep 29 2008 6:58PM
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landonn
Posts: 2913 - Karma: 385
thank god it failed., it wouldn't have solved that many problems and inflation would be a huge effect.  im glad thtat it failed.
Sep 29 2008 7:00PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,141
You realize that ten years ago, both Congress and the Senate were in Republican hands, right?

... Right?

Way to blame the poor, by the way. Classic neo-conservative viewpoint. It's not the greedy rich peoples' fault, it's not the fault of those who de-regulated the financial sector over the years, it was POOR PEOPLE! They killed the economy! Damn poor people, always trying to make everyone like they are.
Sep 29 2008 7:03PM
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MLB
Posts: 4462 - Karma: 298
Great Depression #2 WOO HOO
Sep 29 2008 7:08PM
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P-JO
Posts: 6853 - Karma: 75
This article gives a pretty good reason why the bill isn't 100 percent necessary and why everyone shouldn't freak out so bad

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/29/miron.bailout/index.html
Sep 29 2008 7:10PM
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papasteeze
Posts: 12055 - Karma: 911
hahahaha   yeah so,

A lame duck president goes with the democratic flow and lets the Dems led the way since that seems to be the future come November, yet 40% of the house Dems doesn't vote yay because the Democratic party doesn''t want to appear partisan? 

hahahahaha    yeah, there is some solidarity!  Put them in office!  Whoooo  hooooo



Sep 29 2008 7:15PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,141
That doesn't even make sense. The White House were the ones who came up with the plan and made the request of congress. How could Bush be following the democratic flow? It was his treasury secretary's idea in the first place.

Also, research the term "lame duck". I donna tink it means waht you tink it means.
Sep 29 2008 7:19PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,141
Whoa. Look at this. Headline: Fed Pumps Further $630 Billion Into Financial System. So... do we still need that other 700 billion? I am no economist.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a9MTZEgukPLY&refer=home
Sep 29 2008 7:25PM
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wrenegade
Posts: 6631 - Karma: 41
Blaming the republicans or the democrats for this is stupid. They are both at fault. I don't care what was decided beforehand with regards to how many Republicans and Democrats were going to vote for or against, they both could have brought more to the table. Pelosi's extremely partisan speech trashed the Bush administration, Paulson, Bernanke, and the previous plan all at a time when she was trying to sell this thing to the American public. Frankly, she was a bitch, and she hurt a lot og egos. That being said, the republicans still shouldn't have voted against it because it is what is best for the country. Nobody stepped up the way they should have and the partisan bickering on both sides caused this to fail.
Sep 29 2008 7:29PM
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papasteeze
Posts: 12055 - Karma: 911
I'll look up lame duck in a minute.  I thought it was applied to people in politcal positions that pass bills at the end of their tenure.

BTW  a little off topic however,  this is a very interesting graph.  It really shows under whose presidency the market had an unnatural accelerated growth.   What goes up is bound to come down.......  sooner or later .

http://www.creatingwealth.co.nz/history_dow_jones_index.htm




Sep 29 2008 7:29PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,141
I think the traditional definition is a politician who is "in power" after another person has been elected to fill his role, but before that person's inauguration. In other words he'll be a lame duck after the election in Nov.
Sep 29 2008 7:31PM
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wrenegade
Posts: 6631 - Karma: 41
The fed increasing liquidity to Foreign banks doesn't have anything to do with the US Treasury bailing out US banks. So yes, we still need it.
Sep 29 2008 7:31PM
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wrenegade
Posts: 6631 - Karma: 41
K, that's not true. It does have something to do with it, but it doesn't negate the fact that the money from the treasury is needed to shore up the US financial system.
Sep 29 2008 7:34PM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
I'm glad it was voted down. The government shouldn't be meddling in that market. I never understood where the idea came from that the government could fix anything by throwing money at it. I still don't understand why people think the government would be less prone to screw up than a business. In fact, they're probably more prone to fuck everything up because the risk is non-existent.
Sep 29 2008 7:34PM
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BeerGoggles
Posts: 712 - Karma: 11
That's probably the most frustrating thing. They really are just throwing a large amount of money to fix a problem that they have NO idea how much actually costs.
They in no way figured out the amount of bad debt that was inherited/is owned by companies. Judging by the competency of some of the economic advisors, I wouldnt be surprised if they just chose to agree on an extravagantly large number.

As long as it sounds impressive, it's easier to sell.
Sep 29 2008 7:55PM
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papasteeze
Posts: 12055 - Karma: 911
word quinny word..

700billion..   seriously, there are about 12 million variable rate mortgages.

That would give an office 50k each to straighten out the bad paper.   50 thousand fuckin dollars each.

If it was the bad mortgages that created this mess, then they should fix those first! 50k average has got to be more than enough to fix the rates to each individual thereby stopping the meltdown.  regardless if it is a Fed investment or not, the bailout plan will not help the individual the way fixing each bad mortgage would.  IMO of course.










Sep 29 2008 7:57PM
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wrenegade
Posts: 6631 - Karma: 41
Hoover tried that in '29. Didn't work. I don't like the government bailing out business either, but in this case it isn't just business, it is the market as a whole. Many of these banks are too big to fail. It sucks, but the government has to step in.

If this were addressed 12-18 months ago we could have avoided a large portion of these. The more at risks banks would have failed, the market would have dipped, corrections made and we would have been better for it. For a number of reasons that didn't happen (no point in disecting that now), and we are face with worse case scenario now.
Sep 29 2008 8:02PM
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Pee_and_Ski
Posts: 1869 - Karma: 57
acording to my comtempoary issues teacher the goverment gave 25ish billion to the big three auto makers.

wow its goin to suck to pay for all this
Sep 29 2008 8:04PM
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elk.
Posts: 1597 - Karma: 117
How are you people glad they voted against it lol.. I just lost 17,000 out of a college fund and my dad lost a quarter of a million dollars invested instock due to the crash of the stock market
Sep 29 2008 8:14PM
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papasteeze
Posts: 12055 - Karma: 911
Bullshit... 


Ask him how much money in real dollars that spent on stock.   I bet it has still had huge amounts of return on the original investment.


Sep 29 2008 8:20PM
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elk.
Posts: 1597 - Karma: 117
he didnt spend that much in real dollars in that stock. Its just the fact that he lost that much witch he was going to use as retirement money wich he planned on doing in 2 years but now has to work an extra 2 to regain that money
Sep 29 2008 8:36PM
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Flo_Rida_2016
Posts: 2804 - Karma: -5
https://newschoolers.com/web/forums/readthread/thread_id/383923/
Sep 29 2008 8:40PM
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Flo_Rida_2016
Posts: 2804 - Karma: -5
wow we actually agree on something for once.
Sep 29 2008 8:41PM
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Flo_Rida_2016
Posts: 2804 - Karma: -5
THANK YOU. I'M GOING TO TYPE THE FOLLOWING IN BOLD SO EVERYONE CAN SEE THE POST CLEARLY:

THE BAIL OUT IS NOT SOCIALIST!!!!!

The number one priority and purpose for government is to provide goods and services where there is market failure. For example, institutions such as modern agriculture, education, law enforcement, and national defense cannot be provided on the private market because of various reasons I don't want to get into right now (if you are so compelled, i will). Anyhoo, what we have here is market failure in that there is no way for the private sector to quickly and reliably recover from this mess. And we need this to recover because AIG, Lehman Bros, and Merril lynch are massive companies that produce a lot of income and make up a significant chunk of the value being traded.

In addition to the above, THE 700 BILLION DOLLARS IS NOT A FREE GIFT TO ANY ONE COMPANY. The treasury department is buying up all the shit MBS's and ABS's and credit default swaps and all the other securities so that the failing companies can liquidate their "assets" and gain some desperately needed capital. So in other words, we aren't just giving them money, we're buying shit from them. Heck, who knows, the Fed might even turn a healthy profit from this 50 years down the road.



Sep 29 2008 8:49PM
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NW_Rider
Posts: 2580 - Karma: 314
Regardless of if this bill passed or not, the country is going to have a very tough period, I don't personally think its going to last too long, as short as 2 maybe and as long as 10 to make a rough estimate, but its time to pinch some pennies and make sure your credit stays GOOD... this is going to be huge in the near future if anyone ever wants any access to credit, cause the rules are going to tighten up a lot. Personally I'm more of a Libertarian so im glad the bill didn't pass, but it should be interesting to see what comes next. Companies going under isn't all bad in the long run, it opens the door for new entrepanuers to fill the gap and create some new wealth, but it may take some time.
Sep 29 2008 8:54PM
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Perma
Posts: 513 - Karma: 20
YES. No paying 2,700 for every person in your family!
Sep 29 2008 9:12PM
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Poppins
Posts: 440 - Karma: 30
can't believe i haven't seen one of these yet

Click for larger image
Sep 29 2008 9:16PM
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Poppins
Posts: 440 - Karma: 30
andy, brilliant point, the gov't might have been able to turn a profit on what they bought up, but since thats not going to happen, dont worry. PEOPLE NEED TO LEARN TO PINCH PENNIES. we can't have every high school drop out fucking up our credit institutions because they are allowed to. The pot of gold that the banks have been dipping their dirty fingers in to finally ran dry, and now the only thing to scrape off the bottom is shit. indeed it will be a tough time for america, but we deserve it. if the bailout plan had worked, what would have happened? We would have fucked up again. until we can address the problem of educated spending and borrowing at its source, in the public schools mostly, will this not happen again. lets take an example from the jews, fuck over your neighbor, steal and lie your way out of everything, but most of all, get and save as much gold as you can. this is american gluttony at its worst, and now when the lights on the world stage, everyone else gets to see how stupid we really are.
Sep 29 2008 9:25PM
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Flo_Rida_2016
Posts: 2804 - Karma: -5
if youre talking about me, im not andy haha. im the other ju.
Sep 29 2008 9:44PM
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wrenegade
Posts: 6631 - Karma: 41
Dear god people. This bailout plan wasn't just handing over $700 billion and it would fix our problems. There is over $2 trillion is toxic mortgage debt out there. The bailout is going to help us get through this crisis, not fix it.

If congress doesn't agree on something soon, and yeah it will have to give Paulson a lot of power, Main street is going to be fucked. Seriously. This goes beyond not being able to pay your mortgage, I'm talking not being able to buy ANYTHING without cash. Yes, that mean credit cards won't work. Don't believe me? Continue to tell your representatives to continue to vote down this shit. Wall Street gets it, the politicians don't. They aren't making making a big enough deal about this.
Sep 29 2008 9:47PM
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errrka
Posts: 2261 - Karma: 6,058
good.
Sep 29 2008 9:48PM
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Poppins
Posts: 440 - Karma: 30
well i was going to say. andy doesn't usually contribute too far into the realms of deeper discussion, all i usually see is how he pwns the video games and how the patriots are the best. no offense to him though, haha.


Sep 29 2008 9:51PM
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whattheshit
Posts: 6562 - Karma: 107
the total amount of bad mortgages is like 5 trillion.  700 bill isn't going to do anything.

its like puting a band aid on a gun shot wound, sure it may slow the bleeding, but you're still gonna die.
Sep 29 2008 10:51PM
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TheButterHashira
Posts: 9691 - Karma: 1,702
Good deal. Maybe the banks will learn a fucking lesson and not give loans to people who aren't going to pay them. Me and my parents are going to get to keep our house we can easily afford. I have no sympathy for people who make less than my folks and bought 500k houses.

Sep 29 2008 11:29PM
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wrenegade
Posts: 6631 - Karma: 41
You guys just don't understand. It is so much bigger than that. Please do yourself a favour and start reading the business section and reading up on the economy a bit. Maybe you'll understand a bit more.
Sep 30 2008 12:09AM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
To really even to begin to hope to understand the economy, you need at least two years of college level courses. 15 year olds deciphering the Wall Street Journal are fooling themselves.
Sep 30 2008 12:10AM
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Flo_Rida_2016
Posts: 2804 - Karma: -5
wow! we agree on two things in this thread! yo lets team up. we can probably take over the world.
Sep 30 2008 3:08AM
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SKIDUBAIGUY
Posts: 3018 - Karma: 8
Just found out my grandfather has lost over half a million punds in the last week from this, he owns a fair sized apartment building business, not too good.
Sep 30 2008 3:35AM
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