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Mounting - true centre, centre of the running length or balance point...

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spacey817
Posts: 38 - Karma: 14
Right so i have being playing around mounting up some old skis over the last few weeks and have come to the conclusion that i don't think true centre might be the best option anymore even for park, the tail just feels too long in some cases (old PE's, different tip and tail height) also the balance point of the ski is behind the boot centre making rails slightly unbalanced.

Mounting centre of the running length made the ski feel slightly better for carving forwards however the balance point is not spot on for rails and spinning.

So being a engineer by profession i now decided to find the balance point of my skis (now old mad trix) weighed the toe and heel of my bindings and determined in relation to my boot sole length where the ski needed to be mounted to be perfectly balanced. What a revelation! so good on rails and for spinning. Grabs maybe slightly harder and switch is not quite as good as true centre but everything else is better. Riding forwards is more comfortable than true centre, rails are better, spinning is better, it would be better for softer snow as i was 1.45cm back from the centre of the running length. Overall i think this is going to be the way  i am going to mount all my park skis from now on.

What do others think? Anyone else mounted their skis so they are perfectly balanced?


Nov 29 2007 7:16PM
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=nick=
Posts: 10471 - Karma: 2,184
the perfectly balanced thing is a mad good idea. even for park i mount -1 or 2 from true always.
Nov 29 2007 7:19PM
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KRAMPUSNTROLLZ
Posts: 2715 - Karma: 355
I agree with you, i think it is dumb that people center mount skis that aren't symetrical. Non symetrical park skis are meant to be mounted like 2 cm back or farther, because that puts you over the actual center of the ski the way it is built. Mounting  skis that aren't symetrical at center is just dumb, the ski is not meant for it.
Nov 29 2007 7:21PM
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ryan.c
Posts: 6592 - Karma: 14
mine are perfectly balanced being at center being invaders, so yeah, they're set to "your idea". people have mounted their bindings foward before because of this, its not a new idea, just most people would rather the true center. i think people just need to learn how to ski instead
Nov 29 2007 7:21PM
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spacey817
Posts: 38 - Karma: 14
try your invaders at boot centre. i am pretty sure they will not be balanced. toe and heel pieces do not weigh the same. yes the weight is closer to your foot so the difference is not as much as if it was on the ends of the skis but it still makes a difference...
Nov 29 2007 7:24PM
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KRAMPUSNTROLLZ
Posts: 2715 - Karma: 355
Center mounting non symetrical skis is for dumbos
Nov 29 2007 7:24PM
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calebski.
Posts: 703 - Karma: 10
i dont know i think that rails and boxes still feel better with a center mounted ski no matter what..try hitting a rail with a non center mounted ski then switch skis and hit the same rail with a center mounted ski (symmetrical or not) and it just feels alot better...
Nov 29 2007 7:46PM
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five4ty
Posts: 153 - Karma: 19
Perfect timing on the thread. I have been debating where to mount my old pair of Mad Trix (Assuming yours are the black and white ones) as well, now I know to go with -1.45 from core center (running length).
Nov 29 2007 7:51PM
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Shadows
Posts: 8068 - Karma: 42
yea good luck tryin to explain you want your shop to mount your skis at -1.45 of center.
Nov 29 2007 7:56PM
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KRAMPUSNTROLLZ
Posts: 2715 - Karma: 355
^^^ I disagree i had Head Mojo 80s last year and i had them center mounted and they didn't ride rails as well as my AR6s mounted 2cms back, my AR6s are fatter but not centered over the rail like my mojos were and the AR6s ride rails better.
Nov 29 2007 7:57PM
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=nick=
Posts: 10471 - Karma: 2,184
its not too difficult to measure it out yourself and draw a line
Nov 29 2007 7:57PM
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KRAMPUSNTROLLZ
Posts: 2715 - Karma: 355
I  am pointing to line skier
Nov 29 2007 7:58PM
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poofartpee
Posts: 7436 - Karma: 1,537
very intresting...but not surprising on the performance

good find budday
Nov 29 2007 8:05PM
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calebski.
Posts: 703 - Karma: 10
yeah i dont know..maybe it depends mostly on the ski..but i tried silencers (2cm back) then t-halls (center mounted) and the difference was unbelieveable but now that i think of it its prob mostly just the ski
Nov 29 2007 8:16PM
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WeK
Posts: 1894 - Karma: 11
My scratch wrs fs are at true center. They actually weigh out balanced at true center I'm pretty sure. (no bindings), so far I like them more then my TMs which were at +1
Nov 29 2007 8:23PM
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pDails
Posts: 1238 - Karma: 75

by running length do you mean just tip to tail over the top?

Nov 29 2007 8:49PM
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Rooddss
Posts: 1420 - Karma: 14
ok if center mounting is not good for a non symm ski, then why are companies like dynastar putting center line on their ski for a mounting point....
Nov 29 2007 10:31PM
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pDails
Posts: 1238 - Karma: 75

BECAUSE ITS WHAT THE PEOPLE WANT!

haha sorry for the caps. but yeah its cause its what the people want, and not to speak for the guy, but all i think he is trying say is that in his experience it has worked better for him to not mount dead center, but instead at the balancing point. hes just providing some other ideas and a little bit of first hand experience for other people to choose to either use or not use when decided where to mount thier own skis

Nov 29 2007 11:19PM
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messplay
Posts: 4483 - Karma: 1,065
so since i have walls i should mount them where they say TRUE CENTER or i should kill myself and selll them if i dont?

since they're symmetrical
Nov 29 2007 11:24PM
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paulbunyan
Posts: 3106 - Karma: 94
it really does not matter where you put it in my eyes. just get some balance i personly like mine center or +1 or 2. its just easyer to ride switch and such
Nov 29 2007 11:25PM
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Justo8484
Posts: 3905 - Karma: 204
so... are you weighing the ski without binding? because unless its a true twin like the invader or addict, the balance point of the ski is going to be forward of center. tips are wider than tails, and therefore heavier. if you're weighing the ski with binding, i still disagree. i had my fujatives mounted at just shy of 2 back from center last year, and with my new bindings have them at center now and find that they ski better switch, ski only slightly worse forward, and feel much more balanced in the air and on rails now. also, balance is completely subjective to a person's stance on their skis. it also depends on whether the person is wearing appropriately sized boots, actually. basically what i'm saying is that weight balance doesnt make as big a difference to me, and i'd imagine most other people as well, as having an equal length tip and tail.
Nov 29 2007 11:39PM
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Bepo
Posts: 8195 - Karma: 17
I'm gonna have to agree with the original poster, for non symmetrical skis the balance point seems like it would be good for rails and spinning.  BUT, since the weight isn't distributed symmetrically (more tip length than tail and heel piece weighs more than the toe), the swing weight AKA rotational inertia won't be the same on both sides.  It would be possible to balance both by adding some weight to one side.  It would be very interesting to see how a ski that's perfectly balanced would perform.  The easiest way would be to use some symmetrical skis like invaders or walls and add some weight to the toe piece.
Nov 30 2007 12:08AM
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KRAMPUSNTROLLZ
Posts: 2715 - Karma: 355
Yeah i know explain to me kid above the last one why do all the pros ride their skis not center hmm i wonder why?
Nov 30 2007 12:15AM
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pDails
Posts: 1238 - Karma: 75
i think if someone actually found a legitimate balance point WITH bindings, and factoring in tip being larger than tail and all that, it would be a pretty legit mounting point. but it would be interesting to see where it actually ended up with respect to true center after factoring in all the things mentioned above.

Superb thread. lots of questioning and info/good ideas, just what it takes to develop something great
Nov 30 2007 3:59AM
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Silence
Posts: 16030 - Karma: 149
a very good point of view - totally valid.
Nov 30 2007 5:35AM
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LC.
Posts: 5952 - Karma: 2,423
I always mark true centre, running length centre and balance point and judge it from there. For pure park I go between running length centre and balance point.

Your weighing with the bindings thing is a decent idea but your weight isn't always centred around the centre of your foot, so not so sure about that. I might try it on my new skis if it's not busy at work when I'm mounting them but it seems like it would take a lot of measuring, weighing and adjusting to get it jsut right.

Out of interest, could you state how running length centre, ski balance point and ski+binding balance point relate to true centre on the skis you mounted?
Nov 30 2007 7:35AM
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Enzo
Posts: 758 - Karma: 14
I had my 174 foils with px12's mounted at the balancing point. They are 2 cm forward from recomended, and 2 cm's back from running length center.
Nov 30 2007 11:58AM
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PacificRimJob
Posts: 24704 - Karma: 29,687
I mounted my 171 thrusters (a few years old.. ha) to the balance point back when I got them... a long time ago.

Lets just say, they destroy all at this setting. hell.. they even ride switch pretty fucking good. I bomb down most mountains switch without a problem on them...
Nov 30 2007 3:08PM
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