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9/11 Conspiracy Theories Debunked

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N-John360
Posts: 835 - Karma: 8
Recently, there have been many "the gov. is out to get us" threads, many of them dealing with 9/11. Doubtfully a coincidence, many of them were made by Eleven. To them I show them this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q20NmYGE-T4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs8HuplzFcA&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n9-tCMEEew&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVbw4tbq7jM

I've watched both the conspiracy theories and the ones that debunk them, and the ladder supports many more believable facts. It shows that like I have always said, research both sides of the story.
Aug 21 2007 12:31AM
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skiierman
Posts: 28699 - Karma: -5,563
See that kind of shit I don't mind people bringing up... and neither do the Poplar Mechanics guys. They want you to research stuff like that and try to find answers and not assumptions. It's just that there's so many fucking idiots out there trying to use the same arguments over and over again from the SAME "source" after they've been disproved... many times over. When it gets down to points made like that, about the truck bomb, it's interesting to hear and not a pain in the ass like all the little pricks claiming ridiculous shit.
Aug 22 2007 4:17PM
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cottonwoodarmada1651
Posts: 1734 - Karma: 40
a couple things...

first (and don't take this personally, i didn't know anything about the guy's background until the other day), steven jones is a moron. his background is in the area of cold fusion. he is not a structural engineer. and if you look at the reviews of his work written by actual engineers you'll see that his "scholarship" is ridiculously shoddy. the man never even did a conservation of momentum calculation for his theory - i'm no expert physicist, but even I could tell you that's crucial.

here are some interesting links on jones:

http://www.debunk911myths.org/topics/index.php?title=Steven_E._Jones
http://www.debunking911.com/jones.htm
http://www.debunking911.com/civil.htm
http://www.debunking911.com/thermite.htm

also, the thing about the truck of explosives is interesting and i believe you, but wouldn't that be evidence AGAINST government involvement? (and i know you're not saying otherwise, you're just putting it out there). i mean, if the government were using explosives on the towers or whatever and (assuming this truck was hypothetically "getting away"), why take them into custody instead of helping to cover it up by not doing anything?

Aug 22 2007 6:55PM
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cottonwoodarmada1651
Posts: 1734 - Karma: 40
and as for building 7...

Click for larger image

there it is being hit by the debris from the towers (pretty substantially too)

Click for larger image

and there it is missing the bottom 18 stories of one corner

Aug 22 2007 7:12PM
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cottonwoodarmada1651
Posts: 1734 - Karma: 40
and i'm sorry i didn't cite my sources the other day, i didn't have time. but here is a lot of information on building 7:

http://www.debunk911myths.org/topics/index.php?title=7_World_Trade_Center
http://www.debunking911.com/pull.htm
http://www.debunking911.com/overp.htm
http://www.911myths.com/html/wtc7___silverstein.html

definitely check out the second one down, it gives a diagram of how the building collapsed, a video showing the entire collapse (instead of the 5 seconds the conspiracy theorists show), accounts of firefighters involved (put into *gasp* correct context!), and a lot of other good stuff.

and this one will put to rest the bullshit about both the towers and 7 falling at freefall speed:

http://www.debunking911.com/freefall.htm

Aug 22 2007 7:17PM
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skiierman
Posts: 28699 - Karma: -5,563
Conceptkid: Your rebuttal please?
Aug 22 2007 7:54PM
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Eleven
Posts: 688 - Karma: 10
stephen jones was a professor at byu or brigham young some college with a B so i wouldnt call him a moron. his report or whatever may have been shit but that doesnt debunk him finding thermite on the steel. also the problem with building 7 is that buildings have suffered much worse damage then that and havent collapsed. of course its possible that wtc 7 collapsed because of the debris hitting it but it isnt likely , thats why people jump on that and claim its "proof" which its not.
Aug 22 2007 8:30PM
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doublexl
Posts: 8407 - Karma: 26
9/11 is soooooooo played.
Aug 22 2007 8:47PM
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skiierman
Posts: 28699 - Karma: -5,563
Read that links provided above you. A lot of people knew that the building was going to collapse way before it had. It explains why and how the building collapsed, the finding of thermite on the steel, and of course how Stephen Jones is hardly a credible source of information. I'm sure you are smart enough to actually read that information provided, and not just blow it off like those ignorant-ass conspiracy theorists, so I'll leave it at this.
Aug 22 2007 9:00PM
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Eleven
Posts: 688 - Karma: 10
i have many times before, they are just as biased , stupid and wrong as the typical 9/11 truth site
Aug 22 2007 9:10PM
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skiierman
Posts: 28699 - Karma: -5,563
Well if you think about it, those beams were most likely cut to help with efforts in that area. They are identical to other beams cut with welders.
Aug 22 2007 9:25PM
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skiierman
Posts: 28699 - Karma: -5,563
Here, check it out...

Click for larger image
Welding cut on job site...

Click for larger image
Now the beams at ground zero...


See what I mean? They both leave the same residue behind.
Aug 22 2007 9:29PM
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skiierman
Posts: 28699 - Karma: -5,563
While at the same time, other properties found of explosives used for demolition where absent. Instead, can you tell of that car bomb? I want to know more about that.
Aug 22 2007 9:32PM
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Eleven
Posts: 688 - Karma: 10
so you think the fdny used thermite on 9/11 or in the weeks after to help clean up?
Aug 22 2007 10:21PM
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skiierman
Posts: 28699 - Karma: -5,563
Huh? No, they used torches... sorry you must have mistaken me, that or I made a mistake. They cut the beams using torches, and those cut marks were mistaken for the use of thermite on the beams.
Aug 22 2007 10:29PM
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aznpcskier
Posts: 1250 - Karma: 113
cool dude you're living your life, what about the lives of others you selfish fuck?  Don't you give a shit about world events such as these that have had such a massive impact on millions of lives?  I'm living my life, but I care about what's world events so I can be an educated citizen and if more people were educated about the fucked up things that go on in this day in age, then maybe this shit wouldn't happen.  Go on living your life, LIKE WE ALL ARE, and hopefully you won't be such an ignorant fuck
Aug 22 2007 10:29PM
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Bloom.
Posts: 3533 - Karma: 13,167
anyone who believes all that conspiracy shit are fucking dumbasses and assholes. they are insulting the families of those lost. Who really thinks a government would attack their own country. Sure, George Bush sucks, and other presidents and governments have sucked too but that doesn't mean there gonna fucking blow up there own country and people
Aug 22 2007 10:32PM
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skiierman
Posts: 28699 - Karma: -5,563
FUCK! I'm tired... I MEAN that the torches caused the thermite reaction and not that of some explosives.
Aug 22 2007 10:33PM
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Eleven
Posts: 688 - Karma: 10
can you confirm when those pictures taken? or confirm that the FDNY used torches that would have the same effect of thermite? thermite burns at well over 2000 degrees. from the videos i have seen of thermite in action it is 10x more powerful then any torch used at ground zero to clear the huge steel beams.
Aug 22 2007 10:38PM
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Eleven
Posts: 688 - Karma: 10
yes most are but everything since 9/11 coinsides perfectly with a false flag attack. that is why there is a "truth movement" if you have any knowledge of american history you would understand how false flags have been used as far back as the civil war. please people think and do not label me a conpiracy theorist, i feel stupid even posting in this thread because of how shit is misrepresented on this site. i do not believe 95% of the shit that is spewed out of the 911 truth movement, i do understand neocons though, probably more then most of this site. just to be clear I DO NOT BELIEVE AMERICA ATTACKED ITSELF!
Aug 22 2007 10:43PM
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cottonwoodarmada1651
Posts: 1734 - Karma: 40
this page shows a demonstration of a torch cutting through solid steel with very similar results as those seen in the photos:

http://11-settembre.blogspot.com/2007/04/real-world-tests-cut-through-steel.html


also, i don't believe there is any way to use thermite to make a cut so precise and diagonal like that. this comes from the site i cited before:

http://www.debunking911.com/thermite.htm


Aug 22 2007 11:05PM
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derbski
Posts: 3173 - Karma: 62
there is one thing missing from all of the conspiracy theories, and that is motive. I have not heard one good reason that the governtment would have for doing all of this.
Aug 22 2007 11:16PM
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N-John360
Posts: 835 - Karma: 8
As the creator of this thread, let me quickly follow up on what you have all had to say. but first I must apologize to eleven for stating he was one of those people that believes America attacked itself. I see now that you have some very strong arguments. Many have posted links that debunk the conspiracy theories even moe, many of which I haven't seen myself and have have taught me even more about the situation at hand.
Let me also say that I agree that the U.S. was probaly a little sloppy. But with the magnitude of the situation, it is bound to happen.
Aug 22 2007 11:38PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21061 - Karma: 8,366
They say it was a way of passing a whole bunch of laws and power acts in order to go into Afghanistan and then Iraq afterwards and that it was an excuse to start the patriot act,
Aug 23 2007 6:23AM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21061 - Karma: 8,366
among many other things
Aug 23 2007 6:23AM
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skiierman
Posts: 28699 - Karma: -5,563
As said above, it was an excuse for the people at power to achieve their own personal agenda, whatever that may be. Ridiculous, I know, because Bush obviously proved he could go to war anyways under false pretenses.
Aug 23 2007 10:28AM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21061 - Karma: 8,366
The "personal" agenda had many other sub agendas than just going to war under false pretenses.
Aug 23 2007 4:02PM
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skiierman
Posts: 28699 - Karma: -5,563
Um... yeah I know. It doesn't really matter anyways because it's all bullshit.
Aug 23 2007 4:10PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21061 - Karma: 8,366
What's all bullshit? the fact that our government let ourselves be attacked and allowed thousands of our own citizens to be killed just to add fuel to their agenda or the fact that we're stuck in an endless war because of it? 

I'm not saying we attacked ourselves, I agree with eleven.  I just think we knew it was going to happen and didn't do shit about it because our government is currently run by evil bastards.
Aug 23 2007 6:05PM
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skiierman
Posts: 28699 - Karma: -5,563
Haha, I'm not even going to bother. Bush fucked up, but not on purpose. That's why there was many investigations after the attacks directed towards the administration. That's all I'm going to say.
Aug 23 2007 6:25PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Agreed. Though the whole 9/11 thing is somewhat still shrouded in secrecy with many unanswered questions, the big idea behind it is scary to contemplate. It has promoted this administration and prompted America to do some things we as a country normally wouldn't have done. Its made some people very very rich. Theres always a reason to be skeptical and search for the truth.

But then there are the people that fabricate truth and make what they want to see. As stated by Southpark, 33% of the people will always believe it was the government.

Also, quick comment about the asbestos comment made by Worst back there - Sure, removing the asbestos that covered the beams made the steel less resistant to heat, and helped instigate the collapse. But the asbestos would have made many many people sick if it was left in the building. The dust and debris from the collapse have made hundreds sick, and thousands, maybe millions, have been directly exposed to it. If the towers collapsed even more heavily laden with asbestos than they were, I dont even want to imagine how fucked the residents of NY would be. Its nasty shit, and the costs outweigh the benefits of using it every time.
Aug 23 2007 7:18PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21061 - Karma: 8,366
Alright man, you're entitle to your opinion.  My opinion is just that we new about it before-hand and that people need to not be so closed minded and trusting of everything our government throws at us.
Aug 23 2007 7:32PM
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cottonwoodarmada1651
Posts: 1734 - Karma: 40
how much do you think they knew beforehand? and why?





Aug 23 2007 7:59PM
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skiierman
Posts: 28699 - Karma: -5,563
They knew a good amount, possibly enough to prevent it. Bush's administration was negligable with the information and that's pretty evident. What he is saying is that they knew, but purposely didn't do anything about it in order to soley advance some hidden (and may I add) very evil agendas.
Aug 23 2007 8:37PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21061 - Karma: 8,366
i guess you could call that a decent summary...
Aug 24 2007 5:10AM
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cottonwoodarmada1651
Posts: 1734 - Karma: 40
fair enough. i was just hoping you weren't suggesting the stuff some people do about the government planning wargames to distract the military, etc. because that's all absurd, fabricated bullshit. there's a reason the morons spouting that stuff don't cite their sources - "my paranoid imagination" doesn't come across as very credible.

it's undeniable that the CIA missed warning signs and screwed up. but i don't think there's any significant evidence to say it was intentional. it's also hard to pin on bush in my opinion - i'm no bush fan, but clinton's 8 years rendered the intelligence community all but completely impotent. by the time tenet became DCI in 1997, the agency's manpower had been cut by 25%. and things didn't get any better thereafter. check out this article: http://www.commentarymagazine.com/cm/main/viewArticle.html?id=10897&page=all

the only thing close to a conspiracy i'm willing to concede as possible at this point is something along these lines: in the mid to late 90's, high-up people at CIA (and also probably DIA, FBI, NSA, etc.) were warned about al Qaeda and the possibility of an attack on US soil in the near-future. they didn't have the manpower or money to do anything about it. and maybe they thought, "if it does happen, we'll finally get what we need to do something."
Aug 24 2007 9:28AM
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Worst.NS.Member
Posts: 703 - Karma: 11
Yeah, in case you didn't realize, thermite is comprised of Iron Oxide (rust) and Aluminum powder combined and heated. Of course theres NO WAY rust, aluminium and heat could've found their way to a BUILDING COLLAPSE.

It's exactly this shoddy pseudo-science that leaves the layman (you) completely uninformed. And can someone PLEASE tell me why we wouldn't just pay our saudi friends to do it for us, do you honestly think the CIA/Illuminaty/Jesus/Whoever would chance their ENTIRE WORLD THEORY on someone finding out they used C4, when we could pay 20 disposable muslim extremists to do the real thing? Honestly, someone please tell me.

Don't be fooled by statements like 'I found thermite'. Precisely because of why I described above. Thermite is frequently found at demo sites because it's a completely naturally ocurring substance that's formed by normal by-products of any building collapse.
Aug 24 2007 1:36PM
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Valind
Posts: 4358 - Karma: 17
Lets go skiing and forget about all this government crap!!!!
Aug 24 2007 2:29PM
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N-John360
Posts: 835 - Karma: 8
I agree completely. They probaly did get info about Al Qaeda. But they can't really do much about it in the first place. First, they are pretty much at the opposite end of the world from us. Can't just get a warrant for arrest on that. Second, they never knew WHAT was going to happen. They knew something was array, but not what. Flying planes into buildings was probaly the last thing they expected. Third, you can't alert the media, because that would cause panic.
Aug 25 2007 1:25PM
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