Member of the Month

PartyBullshiit
March, 2024

Online

Welcome to the Newschoolers forums! You may read the forums as a guest, however you must be a registered member to post. Register to become a member today!

Math...What is it???

profile picture
Gnl.Weirdness
Posts: 3867 - Karma: 20
Ok so I was lookin over some game stuff, mainly some A.I. algorithms my boss had coded for our game, and this thought hit me.

Where the FUCK did math come from? I know what the history books say and shit, but I feel like they all say that humans created math, or they seem to glorify that idea.

Math is definitely NOT a child of the human brain. I don't know why I think this, but hearing things like: Fibonaccai Principals being applied perfectly to certain shells, and now even the flow of water and even blood in our veins.

How can that shit be of human creation if it exists within us.

WHAT!!!
Jun 24 2007 11:51PM
0 0
profile picture
Eazy_Eags
Posts: 2227 - Karma: 14
The spawn of Satan
Jun 24 2007 11:52PM
0 0
profile picture
jimmer
Posts: 3586 - Karma: 80
math....all i know about it is i got a D-
Jun 24 2007 11:52PM
0 0
profile picture
jimmychung
Posts: 6857 - Karma: 25
1+1=2
Jun 24 2007 11:53PM
0 0
profile picture
Gnl.Weirdness
Posts: 3867 - Karma: 20
The topic has my head in a very enigmatic state right now haha.

It's some crazy shit if you understand it.

Also this was created by a program of CODE. It's basically art. The only argument I can think of against why it wouldn't be art, is it was not created by an emotional entity.

Other then that, this shit is TIGHT!

Click for larger image

Yeh... Word...
Jun 24 2007 11:56PM
0 0
profile picture
John.
Posts: 1327 - Karma: 11
Someone invite this man to NS thinkers!
Jun 24 2007 11:57PM
0 0
profile picture
Gnl.Weirdness
Posts: 3867 - Karma: 20
Oh and to add, that image scales infinitely in it's pure form. I don't have the code though, so I have no idea how to get ahold of that :: (
Jun 24 2007 11:58PM
0 0
profile picture
Gnl.Weirdness
Posts: 3867 - Karma: 20
lols, they that'd be coo
Jun 24 2007 11:58PM
0 0
profile picture
2+2=5
Posts: 3676 - Karma: 18
no, 1+2=2
Jun 24 2007 11:58PM
0 0
profile picture
Gnl.Weirdness
Posts: 3867 - Karma: 20
thank goodness for that.
Jun 25 2007 12:00AM
0 0
profile picture
TheButterHashira
Posts: 9691 - Karma: 1,702
i wanna be in ns thinkers.
but every thing about physics and all can be put into numbers we made those numbers and all but if you have one cookie and get another cookie you now have 2 cookies. if you ever get other than 2 cookies in that situation then id be very scared
Jun 25 2007 12:03AM
0 0
profile picture
maclem
Posts: 2497 - Karma: 17
I hate you, math.
Jun 25 2007 12:05AM
0 0
profile picture
invader7
Posts: 5756 - Karma: 49
2=2+1
Jun 25 2007 12:05AM
0 0
profile picture
RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Well, some of the patterns that we see in nature come down to how chemical lattices most easily form... usually, 'coincidences' like that occur because its the most efficient way for an organism to do something, and thus evolve like so.
Jun 25 2007 12:08AM
0 0
profile picture
jedi.Jim
Posts: 1133 - Karma: 13
Word, we didn't create these patterns. I think we saw them and gave them the names that they have and they've "evolved" from there. I agree with you.
Jun 25 2007 12:31AM
0 0
profile picture
Quinn
Posts: 1428 - Karma: 16
Math is just the application of reason to naturally occurring things. Math explains a lot of questions otherwise unanswered in both nature and ourselves. The fundamentals stem from measurement, and simple calculations...and it grows from there. Finding the area of a garden, to integrating to find the area of same wack-ass curve in calculus....but everything is based in practical application.
Jun 25 2007 12:37AM
0 0
profile picture
Tinga
Posts: 11349 - Karma: 2,333
i like to call some of the math we do bs math cause its not really math its just stuff that works. like trig identities. they dont do anything they just work. its kinda lame
Jun 25 2007 1:04AM
0 0
profile picture
poniverus
Posts: 1154 - Karma: 106
try thinking about that when your trippin, then get back to me
Jun 25 2007 1:06AM
0 0
profile picture
Gnl.Weirdness
Posts: 3867 - Karma: 20
I'd be willing to put money on their being advanced mathematic formulas behind the process of evolution.

Not sure why, but when I think about it, it makes some sense. And no humans did not create math, it was found by humans, and we are still to this day learning about it.

And we really have barely scratched the surface, we still don't understand the idea of what 0 is, or infinity.

Well they understand them, but there is still much speculation on those two, let alone tons of other formulas.

I just think it's very interesting, and there is most likely more to it.
Jun 25 2007 11:24AM
0 0
profile picture
jambone
Posts: 934 - Karma: 11
  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9wq2WAH-Qk>
    • Jun 25 2007 11:43AM
    0 0
    profile picture
    Tasche
    Posts: 5422 - Karma: 99
    math is a way for human to quantify the natural world.

    Constants found by experimentation mold math to fit different applications.

    Human did create math however it is likely that math is the only universal language.

    Math is actually extreamly simple to compute look at a pocket calculator. However partial fraction decomposition is not very helpful when planning an escape from a lion.

    We just never evolved that section of thought.

    You are not seeing this problem clearly. There is no great math question there is only the struggle to quantify processes. Infinity has no application in nature.

    Jun 25 2007 12:13PM
    0 0
    profile picture
    Gnl.Weirdness
    Posts: 3867 - Karma: 20
    WHAT, how can you come to that conclusion? Show me proof.
    Jun 25 2007 1:07PM
    0 0
    profile picture
    freezed
    Posts: 12973 - Karma: 500
    if you've taken some calculus, and you know where pi, e, and i come from, prepare to have your mind blown...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euler%27s_identity
    Jun 25 2007 1:09PM
    0 0
    profile picture
    Tasche
    Posts: 5422 - Karma: 99
    I guess it has aplication but not um...

    Well for example Einstein said that the gravity in the center of a black hole was infinity and therefore no objects could pass though it. This is not completly true because there is no infinity in nature. Scientists now think that the center of a black hole can be traveled through.

    I dont remember the argument exactly but a really good book to read is hyperspace by michio kaku
    Jun 25 2007 1:27PM
    0 0
    profile picture
    killa_cam
    Posts: 13143 - Karma: 15
    Since you don't understand the application you assume it not to exist? For example, your computer and any other power electronics would not exist without the understanding of trigonometry, complex numbers, diff eq's etc etc.
    Jun 25 2007 1:33PM
    0 0
    profile picture
    Gnl.Weirdness
    Posts: 3867 - Karma: 20
    that was one mans opinion on it. Since then we have also discovered that Black Hole's emit radiation, when we had thought that nothing could escape their gravitational pull.

    We don't even know if infinity exists, it's just a theory right now.
    Jun 25 2007 1:38PM
    0 0
    profile picture
    Gnl.Weirdness
    Posts: 3867 - Karma: 20
    WOWY...

    and to add to that wowyness, some quotes lols:

    "It is absolutely paradoxical; we cannot understand it, and we don't know what it means, but we have proved it, and therefore we know it must be the truth."

    "Like a Shakespearean sonnet that captures the very essence of love, or a painting that brings out the beauty of the human form that is far more than just skin deep, Euler's equation reaches down into the very depths of existence."


    Sounds like they might agree with the topic of this post haha.

    Also isn't it interesting how humans really don't have true "creativity", and I quote that for the following reasons:

    -True Creativity is the idea of being able to completely create something that has never been created before.

    -Humans lack true creativity currently, because everything we imagine, and if so choose, create, is just a deviation from something that has come in contact with one of our five senses.

    I bet there can be math applied to that idea in some way as well.

    And yeh these are all my opinions haha, not trying to be in anyones face, just posting some fun thoughts I have had lols.


    It's a neato topic for sure.
    Jun 25 2007 1:58PM
    0 0
    profile picture
    Tasche
    Posts: 5422 - Karma: 99
    thats weird to think of creativity that way.

    It kind of comes back to the point that humans can touch smell see and heard less than 1 one millionth of reality. There is so much more than we can comprehend.
    Jun 25 2007 2:04PM
    0 0
    profile picture
    Black-Bandanna
    Posts: 6680 - Karma: 1,602
    My exact thoughts.
    Jun 25 2007 2:21PM
    0 0
    profile picture
    RudyGarmisch
    Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
    To be fair, infinity as a concept does exist. For example, you can infinitely zoom into a Mandelbrot set. Space and our universe is also thought to be infinite, but more than likely, its just an artifact produced by a higher dimension that is non-infinite.
    Jun 25 2007 2:23PM
    0 0
    profile picture
    Joe_
    Posts: 648 - Karma: 14
    There is a mathematical formula behind a part of evolution, its called game theory. Look it up on wikipedia for more information, but the basic premise that ties it in with evolution is that all animals are going to look for the strategy which cannot be beaten by another strategy used by a single animal, much like they were playing a game. This strategy is called an evolutionary stable strategy. I know this seems like a very simple concept, but it explains alot about why animals behave the way they do

    Check out this wikipedia on it, it defines everything related to it
    [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_game_theory[/url]

    A somewhat condensed version
    [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_stable_strategy[url]
    Jun 25 2007 2:43PM
    0 0
    profile picture
    UNREAL
    Posts: 3989 - Karma: 23
    i just read those links, i didnt understand alot of it
    Jun 25 2007 2:46PM
    0 0
    profile picture
    honeydip
    Posts: 984 - Karma: 20
    i think its just a literal form of describing what we can't really understand. like all the shit about the fibonnaci triangle shit relating to pretty much everything in life lol, and stuff like that. its actually soo confusing and hard to think about. i'm gonna ask my math teacher next year. he usually knows all the answers to that kind of shiat.
    Jun 25 2007 2:48PM
    0 0
    profile picture
    Gnl.Weirdness
    Posts: 3867 - Karma: 20
    Yeh, our brains are not able to comprehend the rest of it at their current stage of evolutionary development yet.
    Jun 25 2007 3:08PM
    0 0
    profile picture
    Gnl.Weirdness
    Posts: 3867 - Karma: 20
    I have heard of it yes, but don't know much more then that.

    Thanks much for the linky.
    Jun 25 2007 3:08PM
    0 0
    profile picture
    Gnl.Weirdness
    Posts: 3867 - Karma: 20
    Yeh I have had some gnarly math teachers. All of them should have been off researching math, but instead all chose to teach :: )

    Kinda cool, but seems like they did it more like an easy way out.
    Jun 25 2007 3:10PM
    0 0
    profile picture
    1080ski
    Posts: 4424 - Karma: 191
    yup. there are also diffent types of infinity. for example, the set of all numbers (rational and irrational) between 0 and 1 (same for between 1 and 2, 2 and 3, etc...) is a different (and larger) infinity then the set of all natural numbers...
    Jun 25 2007 3:24PM
    0 0
    profile picture
    Gnl.Weirdness
    Posts: 3867 - Karma: 20
    You know the answers to these questions are out there somewhere right? That's the thing that really irks me about all those questions that don't have answers, they do, we just aren't evolved enough to figure them out.

    It kinda unavoidably sends my mind into a complex science fiction puzzle.

    Or I could just be a huge nerd.
    Jun 25 2007 4:13PM
    0 0
    profile picture
    Q_Crew
    Posts: 60 - Karma: 10
    im going into college in august and i have to take a damn math placement test to see where i am with my math
    Jun 25 2007 4:16PM
    0 0
    profile picture
    BMskier
    Posts: 3363 - Karma: 365
    FUCK SCHOOL
    Jun 25 2007 4:17PM
    0 0
    profile picture
    Tasche
    Posts: 5422 - Karma: 99
    see you at Wendys.
    Jun 25 2007 4:59PM
    0 0
    profile picture
    mmmmm...Pie
    Posts: 673 - Karma: 15
    By my understanding, black hole radiation does not occur in the same fashion as typical black body radiation. If I'm remembering right, black hole radiation comes from particles close to the event horizon being split into particle-antiparticles where one is drawn in by the gravitational pull and the other is ejected. So it wouldn't really be escaping the gravitational pull in that case, it would be not fully entering it.

    Dope thread though, I love trying to think about math and physics at the basic "what are they?" levels.
    Jun 25 2007 6:20PM
    0 0
    profile picture
    ax_murderer
    Posts: 3322 - Karma: 30
    enlightner, what is your job? ur boss gives you that shit? i never see any of that workin at bromely.
    Jun 25 2007 6:22PM
    0 0
    profile picture
    mike_e
    Posts: 2419 - Karma: 3,066
    somehow that made me laugh for a while
    Jun 25 2007 7:39PM
    0 0
    profile picture
    WikiWiki
    Posts: 5584 - Karma: 426
    Hon. Alg 2 is so hard- But tirgonmetry and Calc or so much easier
    Jun 25 2007 7:41PM
    0 0
    profile picture
    Gnl.Weirdness
    Posts: 3867 - Karma: 20
    Game design and theory.


    Jun 25 2007 7:56PM
    0 0
    profile picture
    *DrewT*
    Posts: 7768 - Karma: 480
    humans invented numbers in order to explain the concept of math
    Jun 25 2007 8:25PM
    0 0
    profile picture
    steve.o
    Posts: 628 - Karma: 9
    nonsense
    Jun 25 2007 8:45PM
    0 0
    profile picture
    icrashoften
    Posts: 193 - Karma: 11
    exactly, all of us intelligent people know that
    1+1=3

    Jun 25 2007 11:04PM
    0 0
    profile picture
    DANETRON
    Posts: 6671 - Karma: 137

    math is basically a religion. we all believe that pi is 22 over 7 but what if it really isnt? how do we know if it is or not

    Jun 25 2007 11:06PM
    0 0
    profile picture
    Galli
    Posts: 1076 - Karma: 378
    Its all one big critical thinking/ brain stimulation story.... you could question things all day, what is time and who says that its 10:55 right now, i dunno, why am i typing in " english" and why why why why why why... i would recommend get the magazine DISCOVER... it answers all of lifes questions as simply as possible... get it
    Jun 25 2007 11:09PM
    0 0
    All times are Eastern (-4)