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My revised opinion on homosexuality

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SirFryanator
Posts: 11149 - Karma: 1,415

I am having a debate with a buddy on this and since my very controversial thread "my opinion on gays" I realized I knew shit.
So I went out and researched. This is still a very, very controversial topic (nature vs. nurture) and I finally came to the realization that it's possible it could be a little of both.
So tell me what you think of this:
Homosexuality is derived from not only the environment one is brought up in, but also as a result of genetic predisposition to their sexual preference.

I read an article about how chemical changes in the womb after pregnancy can allow for the second child to have a greater inclination to become gay or lesbian. Even though I still believe that it's human nature to be heterosexual (as the majority of all mankind has been) there most likely is a gene that allows for that allows for it to be brought out.
Maybe I'm straight up wrong, who knows. I heard some pretty good answers in the last thread let's hear some now.

Jun 3 2007 6:51PM
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Ryno
Posts: 31125 - Karma: 336
just another trait humans can have

hair - brown, blonde, red, black, etc
eyes - more colours
hieght - tall/short
sexuality - gay/straight
Jun 3 2007 6:56PM
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zylstra
Posts: 3613 - Karma: 125
I'm homophobic. It sucks.
And i don't care what they do its all their choice completely.
Jun 3 2007 6:58PM
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Ryno
Posts: 31125 - Karma: 336
true...I'm just saying, genetics is a huge mis-mash of the thousands of different traits humans can have.
Jun 3 2007 6:59PM
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Luc.
Posts: 7540 - Karma: 59
i dont have a specific problem with gays...but i do have a problem with them shoving it right in my fucking face...case in paint...gay pride parade
Jun 3 2007 7:01PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Biologists are finding out that hormonal control goes way beyond what we though it previously did. Some hormones can act as neurotransmitters or neuroblockers, while others can fundamentally change development and behavior. We thought we were going to find a relatively simple system, but the number of feedback loops and balance in these biological systems is almost beyond our capabilities to grasp. It wouldnt surprise me much if homosexuality or heterosexuality was defined by a incredible concert of these factors.
Jun 3 2007 7:02PM
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BandieBoy
Posts: 245 - Karma: 363
BEING GAY IS A CHOICE! If it is not, then prove it!

There are no verified studies that actually support gays being born with it. Being gay is immoral and wrong and their rights should be limited just like other immoral choices are for instance drug use.
Jun 3 2007 7:11PM
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Capt.Flannel
Posts: 10928 - Karma: 36
why would a person CHOOSE to be gay, which then entails ridicule, hatred, and more or less, a lack of rights? I don't know either way, but I can't but wonder why somebody would choose to make their life that much more difficult.
Jun 3 2007 7:13PM
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Capt.Flannel
Posts: 10928 - Karma: 36
can't help but wonder*
Jun 3 2007 7:13PM
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comeatmebro
Posts: 10720 - Karma: 66
wow that was a stupid post.

why would someone choose to live their life being made fun of all through school and even adulthood. they would lose privelages and other things. plus its been found that genetics do have SOMETHING to do with it, although how theyre raised could have an impact but i really doubt they choose to be gay.
Jun 3 2007 7:18PM
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TheButterHashira
Posts: 9691 - Karma: 1,702
alot of times things happen to people that make them desire another sex. kinda of like if a boy never had a good father figure they may and i say may long for a man in there life
but i dont know i like the poonai
Jun 3 2007 7:18PM
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SirFryanator
Posts: 11149 - Karma: 1,415

There are no studies proving it's a choice either.
Rights should not be limited for sexual preference but just don't allow marriage. Civil unions are fine.
It's natural for every straight guy to want pussy. Every species' main goal is to reproduce, even if it's subconcious. It must be a trait in the human genome that blocks that drive.
Right now you're being stereotypical neo-con and this is what disgraces conservatives across the country.
Read my first post, it's both genetically predisposed and what happens during your upbringing.

Jun 3 2007 7:18PM
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bryceCTS
Posts: 1069 - Karma: 7
shut the mulch up.. what do you think your a scientist or something
Jun 3 2007 7:24PM
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SteezePatrol
Posts: 10281 - Karma: 36
1) the fact that there are neurotransmitters and neuroblockers has absolutally nothing to do with this topic. A neurotransmitter carries an impulse accross the synaptic cleft, carrying on the impulse, a "neuroblocker" stops the impulse, that's why when you stub your toe it doesn't scream with pain for hours on end, the pain subsides as your body realizes that you get the point, and inhibitors (neuroblockers) are sent to the synapses blah blah blah. there isn't going to be a neurotransmitter that "transmits" gay vibes throughout your body. there also isn't going to be an inhibitor which stops hetero vibes. neurotransmitters just relay the nerve impulse

2) nobody really thought it was going to be that simple, and it really isn't beyond our capabilities to grasp, antaganistic hormones and the like are rather understood. our knowledge of hormones, what they do and where they come from is still increasing

3) the fact that a "homosexuality gene" hasn't been found yet doesn't mean that it exists or that it will be found

i just didn't really see where you were going with that
Jun 3 2007 7:26PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
You've made a lot of good insightful posts recently. Keep it up.

Oh, also, while we're on the topic of immorality, lets also start sterilizing any person who cheats on their husband or wife? I mean, thats immoral behavior, right? Or what about the government getting involved in punishing some of those misbehaving kids that dont honor their mother and father! Or maybe we should start exacting vengeance on all those who work on the Sabbath. I mean, hell, its in the ten commandments, so why not treat all immoral behavior as such!
Jun 3 2007 7:27PM
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TonyTheTiger
Posts: 863 - Karma: 68
Most gay dudes are alot nicer guys than a vast majority of normal people, I don't see why so much people are derrenged by this topic.

If beiing gay makes them happy I seriously don't know why we should bother, instead, try to find your own pool of happiness before wasting time and energy on a worthless cause.
Jun 3 2007 7:29PM
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Nihiriju
Posts: 2061 - Karma: 27
Why would being gay be a choice? Why would any one be gay if it was a choice? Seriously you get hated on soo much, and lest face it guys are fucking dirty, do you liek guys? no...because we are dirty, and i am sure gay guys wouldn't liek them either unless there was somehting in them that told them to like guys.  How do girls like guys? there is somehting in them that tells then that they want that stuff inbetween thier legs, a natural instinct, now isn't it possible that this natural instinct can get confused and mixed between sexes resulting in homosexualitly?     Also there is beyong plenty of evidence of animals being gay, in fact most dolphins practice homosexuality when they are young cuz the ladies won't let them sleep with them.....thats pretty fucked, but it shows its a natural occourance in nature. 

So stop being such a faggot and show some understanding on the issue instead of pure ignorance. 
Jun 3 2007 7:32PM
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SteezePatrol
Posts: 10281 - Karma: 36
kid SERIOUSLY knows what he's talking about
Jun 3 2007 7:34PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Ah, but the hormones block receptors in the CNS, which can effect behavior and change the way the brain is wired, especially in developmental stages. Synapses function very differently in the hypothalamic axis, as them being 'on' or 'off' can create huge chemical changes throughout the rest of the brain. Not all synapses deal with sensation and input, a lot of them have to do with chemical output and neuroendocrine function. Its very possible that hormones, say progesterone, at a very young age, could block the synapses in the CNS that regulate sexual attraction, and the non-development or mis-development  of this center could self maintain itself via those same extra chemicals.

And while we're starting to get a grasp on what the various hormones and chemicals produced and ingested by our bodies do, we are still only on the tip of a iceberg. We still have no idea how much of what dictates behavior actually works, we just know what chemicals are somehow involved. The compounds may be known, but the pathways are the complex and intricate part that will take us many years to completely map out.

As for a homosexualty gene, I didnt say anything about that. Homosexuality doesnt seem to be genetically passed down, but there could very well be a mutation that randomly occurs in some part of the genome during early development that could effect development or something. We really dont know what a vast majority of our genome actually does, so its more than reasonable to assume that homosexuality may have something to do with it.

My basic point is in agreement with the thread starter. We really have no idea how to dxplain homosexuality. Its definitely not a conscious 'choice', despite what you may like to believe, but exactly how the brain is different in these individuals is still unknown. If it follows any of the previously discovered patterns of studied behavior, such as aggression and territoriality among animals, it probably has many contributing factors. Everything from hormones, changes in development, upbringing and subsequent wiring of the brain, environmental factors or even as mentioned before, ultimately genetic. Its not likely to be just one of these if animal models have taught us anything about this kind of biology. However, its just speculation, so we'll have to wait to see what scientists discover.
Jun 3 2007 7:40PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Interesting you bring this up. With out exploding population and dense city centers, its thought among some social scientists that homosexuality might be a genetic feedback mechanism that halts humans from overpopulating. Might be an artifact of something back when we were living in colonies in the jungle. Just an idea, pure speculation, but its kinda a cool idea.
Jun 3 2007 7:44PM
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SteezePatrol
Posts: 10281 - Karma: 36
ah, i thought you were sayin that neurotransmitters and blockers themselves were the cause of sexual preference
Jun 3 2007 7:44PM
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gregor
Posts: 1069 - Karma: 83
Gay boy right here.
Maybe you should change your name to ... wait for it ... Battyboy!
Jun 3 2007 7:46PM
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ThaLetterM.
Posts: 8609 - Karma: 1,612
i think that if you want to marry a goat you should be able to. who cares?
Jun 3 2007 7:47PM
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SirFryanator
Posts: 11149 - Karma: 1,415

Hmm. Possibly, but how does the chemistry in your body know that the rest of the world is overpopulated?

Jun 3 2007 7:47PM
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SteezePatrol
Posts: 10281 - Karma: 36
they don't
Jun 3 2007 7:49PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Humans create pheromones! It could be from a variety of inputs really. Social interactions stimulate some chemicals (example, you get horny around hot girls!), while stresses produced by many factors such as noise, overcrowding, demanding lives and social pressures can act the same way. Theres a lot we dont yet have any grasp of with ourselves, its pretty amazing to think about.
Jun 3 2007 7:50PM
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Jake...
Posts: 11976 - Karma: 296
most gays are funny. not like laughing at them, but laughing with them.
Jun 3 2007 7:51PM
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gregor
Posts: 1069 - Karma: 83
I've been to a seminar about how bringing gays and artists into a city creates cultural stimulation and so economic growth.

So gays = good!
Jun 3 2007 7:53PM
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skinlikewinter
Posts: 170 - Karma: 15
i think that its more environmental instead of genetics. if a gene determining homosexuality is to be passed down, it has to get inside a woman... naturally i think evoluton has weeded out any such gay gene, or at least suppressed it very deep inside us. i really dont care if somebody is gay or not. its no big deal to me.
Jun 3 2007 7:54PM
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Capt.Flannel
Posts: 10928 - Karma: 36
well in the studies that I've read and skimmed, it isn't that there is a gay gene, it's that a chemical reaction in the womb somehow predisposes the child to homosexuality. That's where my knowledge on this ends, though.
Jun 3 2007 7:55PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Its possible for recessive traits to pass on through generations without ever being expressed. Check out Mendelian Genetics on Wikipedia for a full explanation.
Jun 3 2007 7:56PM
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PilleDaKid
Posts: 3193 - Karma: 2,629
i know this kid who claimed he was bi and then i saw him a few months later and he said he wasnt. he said that if you trick your mind into thinking you really are gay then you will start to believe it or something like that. idk get it but w/e its the persons choice
Jun 3 2007 7:58PM
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Capt.Flannel
Posts: 10928 - Karma: 36
You can do that with anything, though. I've HATED mustard for my entire life but a few months ago I decided that I needed to like it because mayo and Italian dressing was too unhealthy on sandwiches. I MADE myself eat it and tricked myself into liking it and now I don't mind having mustard on a sandwich.
Jun 3 2007 8:00PM
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gregor
Posts: 1069 - Karma: 83
Also if you're born a very feminine male, you are going to be more likely to become gay. I think it is definitely in your genes rather than you're environment. If I lived in a gay colony its not like I'm gonna become gay, in the same way that if you bring a naturally gay person up in a macho society, its not going to stop them being gay, just make them feel really bad about it and fuck up their mind.
Jun 3 2007 8:01PM
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grubix2
Posts: 2628 - Karma: 25
This gets the award for biggest 180 ever.



Jun 3 2007 8:02PM
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Capt.Flannel
Posts: 10928 - Karma: 36
Also, if it was strictly environmental, Dick Cheney's daughter probably would not be a lesbian.
Jun 3 2007 8:03PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Well, its not just being around gay people that could cause an influx of hormones. Hell, it could be something that your mother undergoes when you're in the womb for all we know. As I've said, in biology its rarely just one factor that controls behavior. Its more than likely a combination of many things.
Jun 3 2007 8:03PM
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MADr.
Posts: 2193 - Karma: 27
FUCK YOU AND YOUR PEDOPHILE PASTOR!
Jun 3 2007 8:12PM
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SlickRick.
Posts: 4329 - Karma: 300
even if i had a gene to be gay i wouldnt listen to that gene
Jun 3 2007 8:20PM
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squibble
Posts: 4569 - Karma: 104
ive got nothing against gay people, but homoness wouldnt fit into that category, its a reproduction thing not a trait. they cant reproduce so they should go extinct (not trying to be homophobic or whatever its just the way nature works)
Jun 3 2007 10:16PM
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smuggsVT
Posts: 2145 - Karma: 19
youre actually wrong, homosexuality is a choice
Jun 3 2007 10:18PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
*sigh*
Jun 3 2007 10:19PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,141
Wow really? I'm convinced.

This thread and this whole discussion is irrelevant. The real people we need to marginalize as a society are the morons. Unfortunately they're in the majority, but it's okay, they're lazy and stupid. I'm sure we'll find a way someday.
Jun 3 2007 11:06PM
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Ryno
Posts: 31125 - Karma: 336
society or NS?

i keep getting confused between them....
Jun 3 2007 11:16PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Is NS is an adequate representation of human society, we are all doomed.
Jun 3 2007 11:18PM
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CTD
Posts: 6300 - Karma: 348
think about this: in a normal childs development, they are asexual for a good deal of time. the gonands eventually grow into female or male organs. so is it not entirely possible that the switch in the brain that tells you what your attracted to just gets flipped the wrong way? and i also believe upbringing has a TON to do with it. not necesarily to MAKE someone gay, but how willing they are to realize it. there are plenty of people out there who are gay, just refuse to go that route due to thier upbringing. does that not make them gay? either way, i dont really care what someones sexual orientation is, as long as they are happy.
Jun 3 2007 11:31PM
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grubix2
Posts: 2628 - Karma: 25
I'm absolutely in disbelief right now. You are actually sounding like an informed, open-minded, pro-active member of society. I can't believe that this is the same kid, that myself and others spent countless time showing data and figures, as well as socialogical reasoning why a person doesn't simply CHOSE to be homosexual.

Matt (i'm assuming thats your name), you have earned my respect. I don't know if there was some life altering event in your life over the past year, but trust me, it's definitely for the best.

Jun 4 2007 1:06AM
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dman1260
Posts: 899 - Karma: 13
here's my ideas on gays, I HATE THEM.  But the truth is that i don't hate them because they are gay, I hate them because all the ones I have known were flaming and they were annoying as hell.  It was like being around the most bitchy, caty, annoying girl in the world times 10.  If someone is gay and they act like any other person, then I could care less.  But if you have to make the whole world know you're a fag by acting like a bitch, then I will probably hate you.  And to be honest, I think most gay people are born that way because I really dont think anyone would chose to be gay cause all the negative things that came along with it, unless maybe they were abused in some way or had some serious issues during child hood. 
Jun 4 2007 1:22AM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,141
That's a very serious problem to have right there. Remember when Petek was nearly driven insane? You should take a break, seriously.
Jun 4 2007 1:25AM
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Mr_Bojangles
Posts: 2585 - Karma: 16
How so?
Jun 4 2007 5:26AM
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squeakywaffle
Posts: 1800 - Karma: 13
Are you an alias or are you just fucking stupid...? I could never tell.

Anyway if you are real then you should come visit me so I can break your face. You make the worst fucking posts on NS, period.
Jun 4 2007 6:16AM
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