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Pipe: snowboards standard maneuver vs. skiings spin to win
This started within another thread, but I thought it would make a good discussion on it's own. I found the opinions on it to be interesting.
Ok, in snowboarding pipe, there is a requirement that riders perform at least one "standard maneuver" in their run. Standard maneuver is 180 or less, so that includes straight air, alley-oop, air to fakie.
The requirement is basically an indication of snowboarders desire to keep a skate/surf style asthetic in their run, and to keep an emphasis on style, not just technicality.
Some skiers seem to think this is bullshit as it limits the riders in how tech their runs can be, which is true. This is a good example of skiers "spin to win" mentality compared to boarders more style oriented focus. For example, skiers can still hit the podium without grabbing all their hits, whereas that just doesn't happen in boarding.
Personally, I really enjoy seeing a big standard trick in a skiers run, like Laurent's alley-oop first hit for example. Something about slow or no rotation with great style really strikes a chord for me.
Anyways, let's hear your thoughts on it, do you like to see a standard trick in a skiers pipe run, or do you prefer the most tech shit possible on every single hit?
I think it is a competition where you show up to give your best and do tricks. Competitions like the xgames are around to please the crowds, it really isn't about the competitors at all. Therefore I think fans woudl rather see a double flip on the first hit than Mason Aguirre's first two hits being straight airs. And on a no grap 1260 in the pipe it wasn't like he was flailing and if you stomp that trick you should podium being that it is the biggest spin thrown in the entire competition.
well, tanner grabed his sw10, simon didnt in his 12... so i dont think you can say skier spin to win.. always depends on the guy on skis...
yea, but skiers wont do this because you cant win if you dont throw tech tricks.
Member since February 6, 2004
"im gonna go buy my inavders friday and make love to them everyday until snow"-lineskier18
"when i put them against my wall they wiggle a bit" (in reference to his invaders) - lineskier18
The question wasn't about doing a straight air vs a double on the first hit.
The question is, do you like to see a standard trick somewhere in a skiers run (it could be last hit), or do you prefer that every single hit is a tech trick?
Snowboarders still get tech as hell, White has done runs with 3 different 1080s, but there is still always one hit in that run that is just a big old stylish standard trick.
I don't want this taken the wrong way, I'm not trying to start a "which is better" thread. It just seems that many skiers don't care for standard tricks the way boarders do.
The thing is, even without the standard trick requirement, 99% of boarders would still put one in their run, and instead of seeing it as a weakness in the run, they see it as an important aspect of pipe riding. Just a different culture I guess.
Tanner and Pete O both did an alley-oop right before the 10 at the bottom, don't remember about Simon. I don't know about a mandatory straight air, but I would like to see more emphasis on grabs.
Yeah, I mean I love all the progression and the fact that people are doing bigger and harder tricks all the time. But at the same time I still like to see the odd alley-oop, straight air, or air to fakie done exceptionally well.
Back to Laurents run from X last year again, in snowboarding, his first hit (alley-oop) would have been seen as an awesome implementation of a standard maneuver, and a very important part of his run. But it seems like in skiing, the fact that he only did an alley-oop was considered to be a big downside to his run. To me, it was one of the best looking hits of the entire event.
Like I said, in snowboarding, even if it wasn't mandatory everyone would still do a standard trick in their run because they just seem to care more about that sort of thing. I guess they just approach the pipe a little more like a skater would.
I dont think runs should be scored on the amount of rotation or anything really like that, but I think having a requirement of something such as a straight air or limited spin somewhere in the run puts a cap on potential runs.
I'm not saying that I do not want to see these aspects. I cerainly agree that Laurent's first hit alley-oop at last year's X-games was awesome, and if the riders choose to do that, then that should be their choice. If somebody wants to do a run with all 4 9's, then let them. Spinning on every hit shouldn't directly mean higher score, but it does add some element of technicality that makes the sport so exciting, and rahter difficult. But really, for a run, all aspects should be encompassed, and should be relative to the competition. Style, amplitude, tech, variation, etc. should be things to consider, rather than appointing a manditory small spin to demonstrate simple aesthetics. That should be demonstrated through the entire run, regardless if the person chooses to not spin, or spin 1260.
And I guess overall, regulations really hamper events, just look at most freestyle mogul events prior to 2002 (or now). If the sport became that meticulous, then it just wouldn't be as creative or fun.
how bout simon's first hit, a cork 5 with a truckdriver to mute, both grabs fully extended and all of this is done 20 ft out of the pipe. how's that for style and technicality?
Do not go where the path may lead,
Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.
Ski good or eat wood!
I think a required "standard trick" limits creativity. And the thing about snowboard pipe (at least for me as a viewer) is I just discount the first few hits when they're doing "standard tricks." The real part of the run begins after the "standard tricks" are out of the way. At the X-Games level, all the skiers can do "standard tricks" perfectly every time, so why even include them if they're not going to count for anything in the judging?
i dont think there should be a required standard trick because it limits the riders, they look sick sometimes, but simons cork 5 trucker to mute is about as stylie as any alie oop
Well I guess that's the point, I don't think every skier in the field can do an alley-oop as sweet as the one Laurent did last year. Sure Pete and Tanner did them in their runs this year, but they didn't have the same impact. That's the difference in snowboarding, they will judge that sort of thing as well as the tech tricks.
I think that if you put all of the best boarders and skiers in the world together and had them do a standard trick, you would still see some that totally stand out above the rest. Laurent's alley-oop, Ross Powers method in 2002 Olympics, Terje's backside 180s in Air and Style, etc.
But I do agree with all the comments that nothing should be "mandatory" in a pipe run.
I guess what bothers me is when a standard trick is considered a "weakness" in a pipe run. I still see a standard trick in a run as a good thing, showing some soul and style, amongst all the tech trickery going on in the rest of the hits. In a sense it just kind of adds variety to the overall run, and if it is done exceptionally well, then it should be seen as a positive addition to that run.
its true its nice to have the style of the stadard tricks... but its pro level comps. there meant to push the sport. thats how i see it. your not pushing anything with a straight air
I would just be really bummed if, in the future of ski pipe, we never get to see things like that alley-oop of Laurent's anymore.
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