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imposing the west on iraqis

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ECFS-Attitash
Posts: 2573 - Karma: 13
someone said that we shouldn't be 'imposing western culture on the arabs'...who said we are. Is democracy worse than totalitarianism?? anyone

Sahid: I know how it is
Sahid: you country bumpkin people don't have much going on...lets not lie
Then I said...: no that is true
Then I said...: we just stick to bumpkining
Apr 8 2003 11:18PM
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wrenegade
Posts: 6631 - Karma: 41
i agree. however, it looks as if blair and bush might have a little plan of their own first, installing a leader for a transition government.

i forsee problems


Western Canadian Separartist
Apr 9 2003 12:08AM
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Papa
Posts: 4718 - Karma: 11
ya but totalitarianism isn't there way of life or there culture, traditionally they are ruled by kings, then the u.s put saddam in charge, i think they should go back to how they were maybe 200 years ago
Seize the carp
Apr 9 2003 12:09AM
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Papa
Posts: 4718 - Karma: 11
remeber, democracy is not always the answer, it's not compatible with all countries and ethnicities
Seize the carp
Apr 9 2003 12:10AM
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andyrightcoast
Posts: 5220 - Karma: 18
Arabs are by nature the best buisnessmen (and women) in the world. They are capitalists at heart. They were holding open markets and bartering and trading and using money and such while the europeans were still bartering slaves and cattle. We won't be imposing anything on them, they'll find a way to profit as they always do.
-Andy

I am God... Please feel free to take a number, I'll be right with you.

Apr 9 2003 3:26AM
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PhattTim
Posts: 13943 - Karma: 83
HAHA, ECFS, it's amusing that you're so arrogant to think that you even COULD impose your own cultures and politics on Arab communities. What Andy said is completley right, they are very very ruthless and businessmen at heart, also possibly the most corrupt and dishonest business people also. Actually they are and I can show you the links for studies on it if ya like. And I think you also under-estimate just how much they actually hate America, it's a hatred that you couldn't even begin to understand, they would die to cause harm to you, they wouldn't hesitate before taking American life, so no no son, you certainly cannot impose your 'democracy' on them.

~~Phunkin Phatt Phreerider~~
#Cut the Jibba Jabba Crazy Fools! Start Skiing!#
*Be greatful, everyday, for snow, mountains, gravity and skiing*
@Talent Is Important, But Image Is God!@
%Jesus Is My Homeboy%
Apr 9 2003 5:57AM
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Ozemale
Posts: 538 - Karma: 10
i don't think giving democracy a shot in the middle east is that bad an idea, I'm not saying its gonna work but if you are using that as an excuse for this war then how do you explain the US's defence of democracy in Kuwait? all they were doing is defending one dictatorship from another. Another thing, one of the US's closest allies in the Middle east, Saudi Arabia, is one of the most brutal suppresors of opposition in the world. so, by all means try and have your little democracy in Iraq but don't use it as an excuse for this war.


Bellisimo... Its Italian for grouse
Apr 9 2003 6:29AM
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andyrightcoast
Posts: 5220 - Karma: 18
Tim, the Arab's 'hatred' for the US is greatly overrated, as if it profited them they'd love the US (as evidenced by Saudi Arabia and Kuwait) however if it doesnt profit them then they throw a fit and hate the US.
-Andy

I am God... Please feel free to take a number, I'll be right with you.

Apr 9 2003 8:24AM
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ECFS-Attitash
Posts: 2573 - Karma: 13
first of all timmy...i didnt say we could. but do you think the average iraqi wants saddam in power, once he sees what freedom brings they will come around. they were fucking brainwashed by saddam.
Bombing for Peace is like jacking off so you don't rape someone later.
Apr 9 2003 3:48PM
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Ski-hobo
Posts: 7121 - Karma: 15
yeah seriously, if you think some Americans are brainwashed, just looked at the Iraqis

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The French have only ever won ONE war, the French Revolution, because the opponent was also French.
Apr 9 2003 4:02PM
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Itsbackfliptime
Posts: 18901 - Karma: 75
I saw Iraqi guys kissing American guy soldiers. I dont think hate could make a guy kiss a guy.

My girlfriend told me to shove my skis up my ass
Apr 9 2003 9:15PM
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Papa
Posts: 4718 - Karma: 11
hahahaha, ya
Seize the carp
Apr 9 2003 10:31PM
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Ozemale
Posts: 538 - Karma: 10
Please don't use Saudi Arabia as an example of Arabs loving the US because it is only a very small percentage of the Saudi royal family that supports the US its just that one of those people happens to be the King. I'm not sure of this but i think i heard somewhere that the next in line for the Saudi throne was one of Osama Bin Ladens biggest backers.


Bellisimo... Its Italian for grouse
Apr 9 2003 10:44PM
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ECFS-Attitash
Posts: 2573 - Karma: 13
uh...the saudis should be next, but they've been our allies for so long

Bombing for Peace is like jacking off so you don't rape someone later.
Apr 9 2003 10:48PM
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andyrightcoast
Posts: 5220 - Karma: 18
I said ' if it profited them they'd love the US (as evidenced by Saudi Arabia and Kuwait)'

Meaning that the only reason they cooperate is because it profits them. You never read things or take things in context. Do not reply to one of my posts again unless you understand it.


-Andy

I am God... Please feel free to take a number, I'll be right with you.

Apr 9 2003 11:45PM
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ECFS-Attitash
Posts: 2573 - Karma: 13
i wasnt replying to your post...i was replying to ozemals point...you know, the post before mine...how bout YOU read before you talk shit
Bombing for Peace is like jacking off so you don't rape someone later.
Apr 9 2003 11:47PM
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andyrightcoast
Posts: 5220 - Karma: 18
wasnt talking to you, was talking to ozemale, lol
-Andy

I am God... Please feel free to take a number, I'll be right with you.

Apr 9 2003 11:47PM
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andyrightcoast
Posts: 5220 - Karma: 18
I had the reply box open before you posted but after ozemale posted but I left to do some shit, sorry about that, haha
-Andy

I am God... Please feel free to take a number, I'll be right with you.

Apr 9 2003 11:48PM
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ECFS-Attitash
Posts: 2573 - Karma: 13
whoa my bad then...
Bombing for Peace is like jacking off so you don't rape someone later.
Apr 9 2003 11:52PM
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TAK
Posts: 5007 - Karma: 14
Imposing America(TM) is a great idea. Look at how HAPPY this whole fucking continent is.
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TAK, the most perfected and self-satisfied poster on this whole sausage party of a site.

Don't be WACK
Vote TAK
Apr 9 2003 11:59PM
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Nine_Milla_Killa
Posts: 6783 - Karma: 23
Ozemale is one of the smartest people in this forum.
__________________
A friend will help you move.
A really good friend will help you move a body.

Bombing for Peace is like Screwing for Virginity.
Apr 10 2003 12:03AM
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PhattTim
Posts: 13943 - Karma: 83
Andy, so what you're saying is that if this American lead attack on Iraq was actually of benefit to the public that they'd like America? Well I guess you've just proved that it's of no use seeing as they still hate the US.

And no Andy, the arabian hatred of the United States is not at all over-rated. You probably just get a juiced-down view of it over there. Why do you think they run around in the streets burning flags, trashing things, yelling things like 'Kill America', 'Die Americans', yep, I'd say it's pretty over-rated too, nothing to worry about, just a bunch of hippy towel heads - Good one.

And no, the people of Iraq are not brainwashed, the only brainwashed people around here is the fucking American public.

~~Phunkin Phatt Phreerider~~
#Cut the Jibba Jabba Crazy Fools! Start Skiing!#
*Be greatful, everyday, for snow, mountains, gravity and skiing*
@Talent Is Important, But Image Is God!@
%Jesus Is My Homeboy%
Apr 10 2003 12:03AM
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ECFS-Attitash
Posts: 2573 - Karma: 13
they do that because america supports israel...al jazeera airs file footage for most of that shit. watch the news right now...fucking iraqis are in the streets thanking the US.
Bombing for Peace is like jacking off so you don't rape someone later.
Apr 10 2003 1:04AM
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PhattTim
Posts: 13943 - Karma: 83
haha, you are so retarded

~~Phunkin Phatt Phreerider~~
#Cut the Jibba Jabba Crazy Fools! Start Skiing!#
*Be greatful, everyday, for snow, mountains, gravity and skiing*
@Talent Is Important, But Image Is God!@
%Jesus Is My Homeboy%
Apr 10 2003 1:09AM
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ECFS-Attitash
Posts: 2573 - Karma: 13
how about you read a fucking book, get informed, then tell people if they're retarded or not. oh and by the way...that shithole university of otago is awful...whats your major? music appreciation?
Bombing for Peace is like jacking off so you don't rape someone later.
Apr 10 2003 1:11AM
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Nine_Milla_Killa
Posts: 6783 - Karma: 23
Yes, they are happy Saddam is dead. in a week, they will be mad if Americans are still there.
__________________
A friend will help you move.
A really good friend will help you move a body.

Bombing for Peace is like Screwing for Virginity.
Apr 10 2003 1:19AM
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andyrightcoast
Posts: 5220 - Karma: 18
Tim you missed my point ENTIRELY.. I'm talking about MONEY not the public good.
-Andy

I am God... Please feel free to take a number, I'll be right with you.

Apr 10 2003 1:48AM
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Ozemale
Posts: 538 - Karma: 10
andyrightcoast, i understood your post but i'm not sure if you did. I assumed when you said Saudi Arabia and Kuwait you meant the majority of the people there but you obviously just meant the ruling elite (and not even all of them). I'll remember next time that when you refer to a country you are only referring to a small percentage of that country that fits your point


Bellisimo... Its Italian for grouse
Apr 10 2003 5:17AM
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andyrightcoast
Posts: 5220 - Karma: 18
Hmm, does that sound familiar? YEAH IT DOES. When you guys bash America. How come I can't do it, but you can?
-Andy

I am God... Please feel free to take a number, I'll be right with you.

Apr 10 2003 8:13AM
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NoTeefa
Posts: 9566 - Karma: 129
hey phatttim, go to hell you goddamn dirty assraping pedophile goatfucker


But I ain't one ta gossip, so you aint heard that from me.

chronic comes from a tree
it was put there for you to see
and was meant to be smoked by you
or me
if i had my little way
id smoke chronic everday
gettin high before i work
or play

Welcome to the pimps n playaz lounge
Apr 10 2003 9:23AM
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lineskier10
Posts: 11339 - Karma: 796
haha yeah tell him
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Creator of the NS Cousin Exchange Program

'Hey look, it's a Zamboni.' My not so intelligent friend after he saw the Loon Gondola

Stealth Ninja of the Silent Army

Viva la Resistance!
Apr 10 2003 9:30AM
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Jooky
Posts: 1239 - Karma: 37
Seriously, how can any of you opinionated fucks talk like you know what is good for the rest or the world. No one here has lived in a muslim country/region. No one here has been 'oppressed'. Now granted, there are some educated people on here, but all that means is you have a larger volume of information to substatiate the same point you would have made if you didn't have an education. So all you high horse fools like Phattim, who dare to sit back and throw verbal taunts at Americans for the decision of their government, can eat a dick....for real. We all have opinions, but they don't mean shit, and more often than not, don't change shit, so shut the fuck up and argue about who's a better shit talker or something....Jesus.
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Whateva
Apr 10 2003 11:58AM
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Jooky
Posts: 1239 - Karma: 37
and by the way ^^^^ is not a jab at anyone except who is mentioned. I'm fucking tired of fools coming on here who aren't from America who think they know what is best for America.
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Whateva
Apr 10 2003 12:00PM
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andyrightcoast
Posts: 5220 - Karma: 18
You're absolutely right.

-Andy

I am God... Please feel free to take a number, I'll be right with you.

Apr 10 2003 2:52PM
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Ozemale
Posts: 538 - Karma: 10
thats fairly hypocritical, none of us have been saying anything about whats best for Amercia. Its America trying to say whats best for the rest of the world.


Bellisimo... Its Italian for grouse
Apr 10 2003 6:19PM
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andyrightcoast
Posts: 5220 - Karma: 18
No, I believe you're the one dictating how our foreign policy should be run.

-Andy

I am God... Please feel free to take a number, I'll be right with you.

Apr 10 2003 8:58PM
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TAK
Posts: 5007 - Karma: 14
''...the Iraqi people are happy Saddam is dead. in a week, they will be mad if Americans are still there.''

^I believe Nine_Milla_Killa's got it right. And that's all I have to say about that. But...

And now, I'm mostly just interested to see what'll happen now that the whole is watching the US overthrow a goverment. In the past they've simply installed right-wing puppet goverments, to support US trade interests. But now that this is public, what shall they do? Maybe if there were no reporters, the US could do what they wanted; what they went there to do; install a radical right-wing 'goverment'. Maybe that explains the tank fire on the very-well know Palestine Hotel, which is undoubtedly the center of the world right now. And the US fires on it? And then the administration stands behind this? I smell a strong US military dislike of the reporters brewing. As the 'victory' wares off, I'm afraid reports are going to feeling as little freedom as before.

----------------------------------------

TAK, the most perfected and self-satisfied poster on this whole sausage party of a site.

Don't be WACK
Vote TAK
Apr 10 2003 11:56PM
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ECFS-Attitash
Posts: 2573 - Karma: 13
Read the op-ed by the CNN guy in today's new york times, and you tell me which one you think is worse...

trust me, the '' things aren't actually there
Apr 12 2003 12:30PM
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TAK
Posts: 5007 - Karma: 14
Can you summerize it?

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Don't be WACK
Vote TAK
Apr 12 2003 7:34PM
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TAK
Posts: 5007 - Karma: 14
Just looking at some quotes and I came across this one:

When asked what he though about western civilization, Mahatma Gandhi said:

''Sounds like a good idea.''

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Don't be WACK
Vote TAK
Apr 12 2003 7:42PM
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ECFS-Attitash
Posts: 2573 - Karma: 13
These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman.
--Thomas Paine (1737-1809) American political theorist, writer


trust me, the '' things aren't actually there
Apr 13 2003 12:01AM
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lagwagon
Posts: 2074 - Karma: 15
I am agreeing with you on this one Tim. The American public has been so brainwashed by the republican government, the've been fed information telling them that the're duty here is to support their president, and be patriotic in the name of your country, I believe patriotism is fucking stupid in that it leads to huge conflict and rivalry, just look at Canada, and USA and even US(some of us, eg:rugga heads) NZ and Australia. Its fucking dumb and it just creates tension and injustices to human rights. Like religion people need to chill on that, I don't think in the name of religion of anykind, killing the same kind, should be justified.
The Idiots are taking over!
Apr 13 2003 12:24AM
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TAK
Posts: 5007 - Karma: 14
Book 31 of Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching:

Armies are tools of violence;
They cause men to hate and fear.
The sage will not join them.
His purpose is creation;
Their purpose is destruction.

Weapons are tools of violence,
Not of the sage;
He uses them only when there is no choice,
And then calmly, and with tact,
For he finds no beauty in them.

Whoever finds beauty in weapons
Delights in the slaughter of men;
And who delights in slaughter
Cannot content himself with peace.

So slaughters must be mourned
And conquest celebrated with a funeral.

(italics mine)

Another translation:

Weapons of war are instruments of fear,
and are abhorred by those who follow the Tao.
The leader who follows the natural way
does not abide them.

The warrior king leans to his right,
from whence there comes his generals' advice,
but the peaceful king looks to his left,
where sits his counsellor of peace.
When he looks to his left, it is a time of peace,
and when to the right, a time for sorrow.

Weapons of war are instruments of fear,
and are not favoured by the wise,
who use them only when there is no choice,
for peace and stillness are dear to their hearts,
and victory causes them no rejoicing.

To rejoice in victory is to delight in killing;
to delight in killing is to have no self-being.

The conduct of war is that of a funeral;
when people are killed, it is a time of mourning.
This is why even victorious battle
should be observed without rejoicing.

(italics again mine)

Tao = 'The Way'
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Don't be WACK
Vote TAK
Apr 13 2003 2:11AM
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SUpilot
Posts: 5267 - Karma: 15
Lets impose western culture on iraq....the world would be a better place. soon the entire world would become the united states and then the world would be great and it wouldnt stink as much.
Taste Death. Live Life.
Apr 13 2003 3:21PM
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pag
Posts: 3412 - Karma: 69
they shouldn't put saddam there at all 20 years ago
and the Democracy is just an excuse man... look to afganistan... now they don't care warlords rules back now and the Karzai goverment sucks.
The only problem with Islamic Law is that they don,t evoluayte but I find it's good law.
MOhammed was an intelligent guy he was one of the best emperor in all times he did justice in all the middle east. And really what I've red about him he was like saddam lol
PAG
Apr 13 2003 3:30PM
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SUpilot
Posts: 5267 - Karma: 15
huh
Taste Death. Live Life.
Apr 13 2003 4:21PM
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TAK
Posts: 5007 - Karma: 14
Wow, I've never heard that before pag.
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Don't be WACK
Vote TAK
Apr 13 2003 4:26PM
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Itsbackfliptime
Posts: 18901 - Karma: 75
Many Iraqi's are still mad at the US because we left after the Gulf war before we could help them. They WANT us to stay and get the country back on its feet.

My girlfriend told me to shove my skis up my ass
Apr 13 2003 10:01PM
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SUpilot
Posts: 5267 - Karma: 15
you iraqi?
Taste Death. Live Life.
Apr 13 2003 10:07PM
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Itsbackfliptime
Posts: 18901 - Karma: 75
no. Thats what they were sayin on the news. It might be wrong. It might not.

My girlfriend told me to shove my skis up my ass
Apr 13 2003 10:11PM
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Mills
Posts: 1123 - Karma: 12
I think Bush is imposing his cock in Blairs ASS HOLE
'Coach, I think I broke my dick.'
-Anthony Boronowski
Apr 13 2003 10:14PM
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All times are Eastern (-4)