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madchronicI don't post a lot on here but I've kind of noticed this too. Forum-wise, it's different from what it was but honestly most forums fucking suck but they've done a pretty good job at keeping it simple and user-friendly. Also I'm excited for the revamped ns mobile, since that's what everything is on nowadays.
Mr.BishopThe shift to mobile has been happening at a completely insane speed. The main thing we're doing in the new mobile interface is ripping out absolutely anything that interferes with the page load speed. That is the #1 focus. Its probably our single biggest struggle right now is that NS is built to be a desktop site that re-sizes for mobile.
It needs to be a mobile site that re-sizes for desktop.
DrZoidbergWhile we're on the subject of mobile, the splash page loads full size on my iphone 5 using chrome. so it's very zoomed in, rather than me being able to see it all. and the bar with the user name and the login button is kind of just superimposed over it. I don't know if that issue is unique to me or it's a widespread thing. Otherwise the forums seem to be decently fast on my phone.
Mr.Bishoptl;dr - Newschoolers is changing from a conversation-based community to a content-based community. Forums are dying off at the ruthless hand of mobile phones and an abundance of social media platforms.
Two questions:
1. Go more in depth to what you mean about "the newschoolers facebook is whoring itself out"
2. What is more interesting about the SLAP forums?
Mr.BishopThat is definitely not correct behavior. Currently the splash page is only supposed to show up for desktop, not mobile.
CaseyI actually view most of my content on NS through facebook. Its like having a friend that pays attention and filters out everything that is legit so I don't have to. I haven't really been back to the site since it went down for a couple days, probably a lot of people are in the same boat.
CaseyWhile were on the subject I can only post in the forums from my phone if I turn the editor off.
L_Borange names are much more rare. I lurked for a few years, but when i first made an account there were still pro's and industry people talking about the randomest shit, it really felt like a community of skiers. Now it feels like a loosely connected skiing forum.
I haven't been around long enough to really reminisce, but even from when I joined, its changed a ton.
L_Borange names are much more rare. I lurked for a few years, but when i first made an account there were still pro's and industry people talking about the randomest shit, it really felt like a community of skiers. Now it feels like a loosely connected skiing forum.
I haven't been around long enough to really reminisce, but even from when I joined, its changed a ton.
Paedophile-PopePeople like SFB, Spaghett etc have overrun NSG and driven away all the good contributors.
cool_nameThey killed it when they had that month of over zealous moderation
Paedophile-PopePeople like SFB, Spaghett etc have overrun NSG and driven away all the good contributors.
L_Bthey have never been that bad. They fuck around, but they don't act like real assholes and fuck with other members, and occasionally are entertaining. Probably why they arent permabanned.
Mr.BishopThe shift to mobile has been happening at a completely insane speed. The main thing we're doing in the new mobile interface is ripping out absolutely anything that interferes with the page load speed. That is the #1 focus. Its probably our single biggest struggle right now is that NS is built to be a desktop site that re-sizes for mobile.
It needs to be a mobile site that re-sizes for desktop.
McLSYes, I normally post like once out of 5 or more threads I look at. And spend over half the time off the forums. As for non ski gabber? I think the only real purposes of this section is to keep trolls off the serious sections, have a place where we can all talk without spamming the sg in summer, and also because every once in a while it's interesting to hear what fellow freeski lovers think about a world issue. But yeah i hadn't even looked at nsg more than 10 times this whole year until a few days ago.
toastyteenagersHAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF BOOTSTRAP?
john18061806the recipe is simple:
-ads
-unoriginal videos
dane_wizwillardi only look at nsg because people on this site aren't good at handling insulting truths as good as I expected them to be.
Mr.BishopExpand please!
john18061806People have to pay to watch videos in terms of wasting their time watching a completely uninteresting ad they have probably seen 300 times already. Then once the ad is over they get let down by content that is just the same damn cork 7 tail with a kfed edited minimally to rap music.
People have to try harder to stand out, I don't care what it takes. There are plenty of people who stand out but for the most part it's boring as hell right now. This is what I'm hearing from all my friends who stopped using NS, I'm not speaking for myself. They say it's the ads and unoriginal content.
john18061806People have to pay to watch videos in terms of wasting their time watching a completely uninteresting ad they have probably seen 300 times already. Then once the ad is over they get let down by content that is just the same damn cork 7 tail with a kfed edited minimally to rap music.
People have to try harder to stand out, I don't care what it takes. There are plenty of people who stand out but for the most part it's boring as hell right now. This is what I'm hearing from all my friends who stopped using NS, I'm not speaking for myself. They say it's the ads and unoriginal content.
Mr.BishopWhat are they doing now for their ski video consumption?
john18061806I don't think they watch many ski videos, it's just what gets sent to them by friends.
McLSnah I disagree. First, this season was shit in terms of snow which may have impacted the number of people here
louie.miragsspeak for yourself man! The North East (U.S.) had their best snow in years
L_BPow skiers/those who seek to be, which is quickly becoming the biggest group of skiers, are centered in the west.
Skier numbers overall for the entire country were down this year. That is probably going to affect web traffic on a ski forum.
louie.miragsspeak for yourself man! The North East (U.S.) had their best snow in years
Mr.BishopIt actually affected traffic across all the snow-related sites at our company (The Enthusiast Network). March had a substantial drop-off as everyone in the west just got fed up with bad snow news and went biking.
So this was admittedly also a very bad spring for traffic, which definitely had a serious affect on things. With a good winter, the traffic extends well into april - may sometimes even - so you don't notice it drop off as fast.
tomPietrowskiThis is exactly what happened in whistler. I was out on the bike in Feb! The ski shops were really hurting by March. But it's goin to be good next year I have faith.
Mr.BishopIf we can look forwards to more of your sweet, sweet gear content then I'm HYPED.
L_Bneed moar touring skiers. Thats what's hot right now. Dedicated park skiers have seen the light and bought skins, I honestly think that here on the west coast, traditional terrain parks will lose popularity as a whole. Natural feautures and flowy runs that feel like sidecountry will become more and more popular as the focus shifts from "how many flips/spins can you do" to "What looks like legitimate fun".
I think thats what people have been watching too.
Turd.Fergusonnot where I'm from, in illinous and certainly on some parts east of here traditional parks will always thrive as long as there are people there to use them
GANDALFI've been on a member of this site for almost a decade. Life happens. I post less because I am doing more with my life.
L_Band while I personally think thats great and there is a long future for a vibrant park scene, the midwest's skier numbers just don't come close to the rest of the country, particularly the west. The west makes the most money, sees the most skier visits, and sets the industry trends based on economics. Vail has bought some midwest resorts to encourage more people to venture west to their major resorts where they make the real dough, and park skiing just hasn't been growing at nearly the same rate as AT/sidecountry gear, programs, and sheer numbers.
I feel like this will reverberate across all the ski industry and vastly shift the focus of things like web content, mediums for conversation, etc.
L_Bso why are there not more newer younger members who have time to post.
Mr.BishopI'm not sure how implicitly true this is. I mean sure, the industry is getting a 6' boner with a giant cheeseburger on the end of it for backcountry - but does it actually represent the average consumer? I don't really know. For a long time, the East coast has been a massive part of the industry - as you said vail resorts wants those resorts to drive trips... but they don't care about product sales. There's a massive population of skiers who ski every single day at what west coasters would call absolutely piece of shit hills.
From my understanding in a lot of time in this sport - those people have long been the lifeblood of the industry - from a product sales standpoint.
Now, you're absolutely right that currently the whole touring / backcountry thing is the flavor of the moment - but how many people can actually enjoy that? Not many. Most skiers actually only ever ride at completely shitty resorts, and maybe get to book one trip out to a big one once per year with their families. There are many in the industry that argue we're actually doing ourselves a disservice by marketing back/side country as the be-all-end-all - because it has such little actual relevance to the average skier.
Only time will tell on this one.
Concurrently, park skiing - which is basically the only thing that makes east coast skiing tolerable - isn't going anywhere. Sure, it isn't the industry's flavor of the month right now, but there is an enormous army of kids hungry to enjoy skiing where park is the way they get their taste without joining racing programs.
Who owns the future? Who knows. All I know is that I'd rather an east coast park rat kid slay rails all day long than either quit or start snowboarding.
L_BNew ski gear, which is where a massive amount of money is made, not used gear, is too expensive for the average 14 year old when 8-9 years ago a brand new jacket or pair of boots was at least an attainable goal.
Mr.BishopThe entire flaw in the logic here is who is buying that 14 year olds gear. Trust me - its not the 14 year old.
The ski industry is - and always has been - based off of not only the older generation, but what they buy for their kids. The 45 year old dude that goes backcountry skiing once a year is the hot topic right now - but what they forget is that if the industry will ever last the really important part is his three kids that are hitting the backyard setup every single day of the summer and destroying the grass.
.
L_Bso why are there not more newer younger members who have time to post.
GANDALFbecause i said so that's why
L_BBut if there are less middle class families who can afford to buy their kids park gear and send them to the local 400' hill for the day, why would the industry cater to them? There will still be a ton, but I don't think everyone would just bail on park skiing like they have without doing enough research to see which options make them the most money.
I agree they are overlooking the long term value in the youth, but maybe they've just figured the profits they used to make from that demographic (and their parents) isn't currently a viable business plan, and don't see that changing soon enough to re-invest in park gear and park skier sponsorships.
Ski companies have never made big enough profits to make huge mistakes and survive, and I don't see this being that different. Maybe companies like J-skis will prove me and a big portion of the industry wrong, and I hope that's the case. It just seems like park skiing hey day is over, but it will be popular for a long time. Just not like it was in 2005-2010. And whatever is at the top rules the entire game.
Mr.BishopThe shortsightedness happening in the industry isn't just about park skis, it also includes regular all-mountain gear. Right now, the industry has done some research, and there is a growth in the back/sidecountry segment - but the main reason they've all flocked to it is the margins on this product. It for the most part costs the same to make a park ski as a massive fat backcountry-specific ski... but you can sell the park ski only for $500 while you can sell the big fatty for $900+. Boom, industry flocks there.
Bit of hype mixed with big margins and everyone goes crazy.
Problem is, if you have a bad snow year you don't sell shit for pow-specific product, and then your high margin profits go out the window. Companies will realize that getting back into the more sustainable part of the sport - which is basically regular all mountain skis for average conditions. Park skis are perfectly acceptable all mountain skis for any kid, and 90% of skiers never ever need something that performs well outside of regular groomers, some moguls and the occasional small dump of snow.
Snowboarding has it much better figured out than us - they don't hyper segment and state "PARK SNOWBORDING IS DEAD" - while they hike some backcountry line laughing at the fact they ever let themselves be seen in the park... no you're just a snowboarder. You can like park and skiing at the same time, its all just skiing after all.
There is far less research actually getting an entire industry to jump in one direction than you'd think - there's a few reports out of SIA and then a massive flood in one direction or another - and it cycles every few years. Mark my words - Hard core Backcountry skiing will have its few years in the limelight as the savior of all things skiing, and then the average skier will realize that if they use all this backcountry shit they just bought they have to walk up the hill and they're more likely to die in an avalanche than actually get a pow turn. The industry will swing back to resort skiing (like it always has) and then the new flavor of the week will take off.
Companies will fluctuate, and they'll figure out what products sell and what doesn't. The marketing dollars will flow in and out of segments and in the end we'll eventually realize its just skiing.
Mr.BishopThe shortsightedness happening in the industry isn't just about park skis, it also includes regular all-mountain gear. Right now, the industry has done some research, and there is a growth in the back/sidecountry segment - but the main reason they've all flocked to it is the margins on this product. It for the most part costs the same to make a park ski as a massive fat backcountry-specific ski... but you can sell the park ski only for $500 while you can sell the big fatty for $900+. Boom, industry flocks there.
Bit of hype mixed with big margins and everyone goes crazy.
Problem is, if you have a bad snow year you don't sell shit for pow-specific product, and then your high margin profits go out the window. Companies will realize that getting back into the more sustainable part of the sport - which is basically regular all mountain skis for average conditions. Park skis are perfectly acceptable all mountain skis for any kid, and 90% of skiers never ever need something that performs well outside of regular groomers, some moguls and the occasional small dump of snow.
Snowboarding has it much better figured out than us - they don't hyper segment and state "PARK SNOWBORDING IS DEAD" - while they hike some backcountry line laughing at the fact they ever let themselves be seen in the park... no you're just a snowboarder. You can like park and skiing at the same time, its all just skiing after all.
There is far less research actually getting an entire industry to jump in one direction than you'd think - there's a few reports out of SIA and then a massive flood in one direction or another - and it cycles every few years. Mark my words - Hard core Backcountry skiing will have its few years in the limelight as the savior of all things skiing, and then the average skier will realize that if they use all this backcountry shit they just bought they have to walk up the hill and they're more likely to die in an avalanche than actually get a pow turn. The industry will swing back to resort skiing (like it always has) and then the new flavor of the week will take off.
Companies will fluctuate, and they'll figure out what products sell and what doesn't. The marketing dollars will flow in and out of segments and in the end we'll eventually realize its just skiing.
L_Bbut how long will that take? Trends like that can cost smaller companies their existence. Even if it goes back the other way in say, 3 years, will that not hurt companies like NS and park specific brands?
Mr.BishopIts perfectly fine for smaller brands - its actually better for them. The average consumer doesn't go as hair brained as the marketing people so there's always demand for certain categories. It can actually open up opportunities for new companies - take Vishnu for example. Company who is built around the philosophy of skiing street. That is niche as fuck.
Take J - He's not going crazy in this backcountry touring only world - he's building a brand around "Its just skiing."
As for companies like NS, we just adjust to the time and focus on helping build brands that are a fit for our market. Our demographic has aged and the content that you guys create has created some flow in the Backcountry direction so we get a little taste of that action, but for the most part the core of it is super solid and secure. We don't go away, revenue just starts growing a bit slower for few years instead of growing 100%-200% like it would during a marketing boom.
We have a massive audience here, and our ads are extremely effective for companies that are a fit for the 18-24 demographic that we absolutely crush.
Really though trust me - the cycles when you first see them panic you. The longer you stay around the longer you realize its all the same thing over and over and you just adapt, tweak and stay true to your roots.
L_Byou have been around for a while lol. I guess it's just the first huge trend shift ive been around for in skiing.
