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-eREKTion-Didn’t the Shift get unveiled in December 2017? And went on sale for 18/19? It worked pretty well for them.
Big difference, in my opinion, is that the Shift was the "first" in its genre. Nothing like it existed, and they had time for the big announcement, etc, because there wasn't any direct competitor in that market yet.
With such an early release but delayed availability they have time to get the bindings into reviewers hands and since the binding info is released they can be skied at resorts and have pictures taken of them without having to be used in secrecy.
Also there should be full reviews from people with almost a whole season on them before the public can get them, hopefully that means any issues found will be well known and possibly fixed.
TheWeazWith such an early release but delayed availability they have time to get the bindings into reviewers hands and since the binding info is released they can be skied at resorts and have pictures taken of them without having to be used in secrecy.
Also there should be full reviews from people with almost a whole season on them before the public can get them, hopefully that means any issues found will be well known and possibly fixed.
Just seems early for a consumer-facing marketing release compared to the shift's industry/ B2B release followed by a consumer push.
99% of the ski industry works through a retailer network and not direct-to-consumer. Major retailer trade shows (ISPO and OR/SIA) are this January & February so dealers can place their orders in March for fall delivery. This marketing it designed to put pressure on retailers to order gear for next fall deliver. That's just how the ski industry works.
Woodsy on the 1080 graphic Salomon in his new Vlog. Haven’t seen anything else about this ski just a thread on here a few months back. What’s the word? Looks like a new ski by the dimensions maybe a rocker 2?
onenerdykid99% of the ski industry works through a retailer network and not direct-to-consumer. Major retailer trade shows (ISPO and OR/SIA) are this January & February so dealers can place their orders in March for fall delivery. This marketing it designed to put pressure on retailers to order gear for next fall deliver. That's just how the ski industry works.
No, I know that. Just seems odd to move the marketing timeline to October/ November. Like we are making some 20/21 skis available to retailers through a special program, but we are not gonna make anything known to the public for a good amount of time. but we don't have the tech that something like the shift or the reset/duke have, and those perhaps require a longer marketing timeline ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
skidemon22No, I know that. Just seems odd to move the marketing timeline to October/ November. Like we are making some 20/21 skis available to retailers through a special program, but we are not gonna make anything known to the public for a good amount of time. but we don't have the tech that something like the shift or the reset/duke have, and those perhaps require a longer marketing timeline ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Woodsy on the 1080 graphic Salomon in his new Vlog. Haven’t seen anything else about this ski just a thread on here a few months back. What’s the word? Looks like a new ski by the dimensions maybe a rocker 2?
dude, haha, those are actual 1080s from '99
there are some skis with the old 1080 graphic that have been kicking around social media that look like a new model for 20/21
CatdickBojanglesHahaha I guess thats what I get for not actually watching the video just saw the thumbnail and I assumed it was the ones from the other posts
that's why i actually watched the video, because I want to know more if Salomon is gonna come out with a new 100mm+ twin again :)
Interesting, so as 50 50 options go there is now quite the lineup ranging from tecton, kingpin, shift, duke, to cast. Wondering whether look and tyrolia want to get involved in this space as well or whether their just going to leave it.
Maybe I’m just stupid but the idea of removable parts kinda scares me. Cast looks sick but I’m afraid I’d drop a P18 toe into pow while changing over, now Marker has got it. Hopefully, I can get on a pair of these this season and see what’s what. End of the day, though, I’m probably going to just keep using Kingpins (maybe Tectons when I need new clamps).
No one will really know until it gets into people’s hands or a video gets posted of exactly how it functions, not just a marketing video with quick clips.
Since this has been the main discussion on this forum for a few weeks now, I just wanted to share my thoughts as far as the touring options available today.
The Shift, having been introduced in January of 2018 and then released Fall of 2018, is still, in my opinion, the most versatile option. That being said, there have been a number of issues reported (as with the Kingpin), and there is no higher-DIN option available yet.
The Fritschi Tecton 12 is, also just my opinion, a better version of the Kingpin. It has lateral release in the toe, it’s lighter weight, and has not presented the number of problems and recalls as its Marker counterpart. With that said, it will not ski as well as the Shift inbounds/on hard, chopped up or icy snow.
The new Duke PT16. Personally, I’ve been riding Marker bindings all my life and believe them to hold a significant amount of market share when it comes to alpine ski bindings. I have been waiting for 3 weeks for this announcement, and I have to say that I’m disappointed. Like someone else already pointed out, the CAST system is give or take the same thing and it’s already tried and true. Given that Marker is one of the larger ski binding companies, I personally expected more of an innovation than what we received.
Please feel free to correct me on any wrong information and discuss!
animatorSince this has been the main discussion on this forum for a few weeks now, I just wanted to share my thoughts as far as the touring options available today.
The Shift, having been introduced in January of 2018 and then released Fall of 2018, is still, in my opinion, the most versatile option. That being said, there have been a number of issues reported (as with the Kingpin), and there is no higher-DIN option available yet.
The Fritschi Tecton 12 is, also just my opinion, a better version of the Kingpin. It has lateral release in the toe, it’s lighter weight, and has not presented the number of problems and recalls as its Marker counterpart. With that said, it will not ski as well as the Shift inbounds/on hard, chopped up or icy snow.
The new Duke PT16. Personally, I’ve been riding Marker bindings all my life and believe them to hold a significant amount of market share when it comes to alpine ski bindings. I have been waiting for 3 weeks for this announcement, and I have to say that I’m disappointed. Like someone else already pointed out, the CAST system is give or take the same thing and it’s already tried and true. Given that Marker is one of the larger ski binding companies, I personally expected more of an innovation than what we received.
Please feel free to correct me on any wrong information and discuss!
I'm mostly curious about when development for this binding started. Did they scramble once they got a Shift in their hands? Or had they been planning on going the removable-toe-piece route for a few years now? I guess the potential good news is that, if the Duke PT performs as Marker advertises, people now have more options than ever before for burly touring bindings.
patagonialukeI'm mostly curious about when development for this binding started. Did they scramble once they got a Shift in their hands? Or had they been planning on going the removable-toe-piece route for a few years now? I guess the potential good news is that, if the Duke PT performs as Marker advertises, people now have more options than ever before for burly touring bindings.
The Duke's mantra has always been powerful downhill performance. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the removable toe-piece design is something that they decided early on, just because of the whole "unrivaled downhill performance" aspect of it. They had to sacrifice weight savings in order to make it beefy
I would say from an engineering standpoint, its an elegant solution to use the pins as a mounting point for the downhill part. It is not as integrated as the shift but maybe that allowed them to develop it relatively quickly. So given that the whole 50/50 market was somewhat started by the kingpin, i would assume that they were browsing for other solutions and could have actively pursued it once they knew about the shift. Salomon seems to have spent a ton of time prototyping their solutions and apparently they need some more expensive materials to make it happen. From what is available, the marker product looks like something that could be designed significantly quicker as they basically just had to figure out how to stick an alpine toe into an alpinist toe.
also a little disappointed with the duke, anyone hear anything from cast as to what their doing/how successful they are? Plans for future bindings? Those guys seem to be geniuses, curious as to whats next
The 12 is basically the same weight as the shift when the toepiece is in your pack.
The 16 is the same weight is the same weight as Cast with the toepieces in your pack.
Stack height ever so slightly above shift and no word yet on elasticity.
Certainly not blowing anything out of the water on paper. Hopefully the ski really nicely and show improvements to the legendary marker durability of recent years.
They literally recalled and replaced all of the problematic Kingpins. I wouldn't bet on this binding existing without any issues or recalls. My local ski shop has a huge poster showing how to identify a bad kingpin.
finderThey literally recalled and replaced all of the problematic Kingpins. I wouldn't bet on this binding existing without any issues or recalls. My local ski shop has a huge poster showing how to identify a bad kingpin.
Funny. Maybe you heard another part of the story? Many of the replacement toes were faulty too. Some shops were waiting for a year to get those replacements. I know some shops that were ignored in their requests to warranty broken toes, etc etc etc.
teamdummyThe shreditor 112 was the best ski I ever skied. Then I got Marksman’s, and they were the best skis ever. Stoked to see what’s coming down the pipe line! Been on K2’s exclusively since 1989. Loved almost every pair I’ve owned. ( hated poachers though , just didn’t agree with me. They felt stiff like an 80’s slalom ski. )
-SnowSnoli-Amen to that.
Could you guys elaborate a little bit on the marksman vs shreditor 112 comparison? I absolutely loved the shreditor 112s, but I'm a little afraid of the Marksmans asymmetrical shape. Looks like that new prototype is asymmetrical as well. Should I be scurred?
Also, did you guys compare the poacher to the shreditor 92?
TahoeBajaCould you guys elaborate a little bit on the marksman vs shreditor 112 comparison? I absolutely loved the shreditor 112s, but I'm a little afraid of the Marksmans asymmetrical shape. Looks like that new prototype is asymmetrical as well. Should I be scurred?
Also, did you guys compare the poacher to the shreditor 92?
poacher is stiffer by a good bit to the 92.
ˆdemoed the first gen Marksman, didn't like the side cut personally... if you want 112mm try the CT 3.0 :)
TahoeBajaCould you guys elaborate a little bit on the marksman vs shreditor 112 comparison? I absolutely loved the shreditor 112s, but I'm a little afraid of the Marksmans asymmetrical shape. Looks like that new prototype is asymmetrical as well. Should I be scurred?
Also, did you guys compare the poacher to the shreditor 92?
Don’t think the new K2 twins are asymmetrical any more as that was one of the big complains of those skis. Pics look similar in shape to the regular Mindbender series(but twins of course) which is a very good thing as those skis are fantastic.
Think the new twins will be a significant upgrade in the stability and carving department while still being very playful. Betting they will be game changers for K2 like the regular Mindbender series has been.
There’s a Poacher review on this website and compares them to the Shreditor line.
Greg_KDon’t think the new K2 twins are asymmetrical any more as that was one of the big complains of those skis. Pics look similar in shape to the regular Mindbender series(but twins of course) which is a very good thing as those skis are fantastic.
Think the new twins will be a significant upgrade in the stability and carving department while still being very playful. Betting they will be game changers for K2 like the regular Mindbender series has been.
There’s a Poacher review on this website and compares them to the Shreditor line.
Nice! That review says it's pretty close in flex to the Shreditor 92, which sounds great. The only thing I have a problem with is it says that the Poacher runs short? I have never seen any other K2 ski run short, so what's that all about?
TahoeBajaNice! That review says it's pretty close in flex to the Shreditor 92, which sounds great. The only thing I have a problem with is it says that the Poacher runs short? I have never seen any other K2 ski run short, so what's that all about?
Agreed. K2 are always the stated length or .4/.5 cm over so I bet it’s supposed to be 177.5cm tape measured.
TahoeBajaCould you guys elaborate a little bit on the marksman vs shreditor 112 comparison? I absolutely loved the shreditor 112s, but I'm a little afraid of the Marksmans asymmetrical shape. Looks like that new prototype is asymmetrical as well. Should I be scurred?
Also, did you guys compare the poacher to the shreditor 92?
They're so different. 112 was my fave ski for two seasons. Marksman is fine, but it feels so much shorter and less stable. So it's way easier to spin, but it's also a lot more work when you're hauling ass in variable snow. It's less about the asymmetry, and more about the Marksman being a more tapered, lighter, less damp ski. I'm excited to see what K2 has coming down the pipe as a replacement.
When I reviewed the Marksman I ended up feeling like it was a perfect beginner ski because it was so easy, but for anyone else it would probably feel a little under-gunned. There are so many other skis on the market that are just as playful or more so than the Marksman, while also being better at higher speeds. And if you like the 112 you should look at skis that aren't the marksman. The ARV 106, Kartel 108 and 116, and Deathwish all feel more like the 112 than the Marksman does in my opinion.
cydwhitThey're so different. 112 was my fave ski for two seasons. Marksman is fine, but it feels so much shorter and less stable. So it's way easier to spin, but it's also a lot more work when you're hauling ass in variable snow. It's less about the asymmetry, and more about the Marksman being a more tapered, lighter, less damp ski. I'm excited to see what K2 has coming down the pipe as a replacement.
When I reviewed the Marksman I ended up feeling like it was a perfect beginner ski because it was so easy, but for anyone else it would probably feel a little under-gunned. There are so many other skis on the market that are just as playful or more so than the Marksman, while also being better at higher speeds. And if you like the 112 you should look at skis that aren't the marksman. The ARV 106, Kartel 108 and 116, and Deathwish all feel more like the 112 than the Marksman does in my opinion.
Thanks. I'm interested in the ARV 106ti.
I hope K2 comes out with a more freestyle version of the Mindbender series.
**This post was edited on Nov 9th 2019 at 8:15:38pm
The k2 twin line, marksmen, poacher and maybe one other are getting revamped for next year. Add some continuity to the line to tie in with the mind benders.
japanadaThe k2 twin line, marksmen, poacher and maybe one other are getting revamped for next year. Add some continuity to the line to tie in with the mind benders.
Guess I’ll wait to buy new sticks til next year now...
CatdickBojanglesGuess I’ll wait to buy new sticks til next year now...
Yeah me too. Hyped to see what K2 has coming. I like the mind benders, but just a little too “Nordica Enforcer” for my taste. I still ski switch enough to want twins.
teamdummyYeah me too. Hyped to see what K2 has coming. I like the mind benders, but just a little too “Nordica Enforcer” for my taste. I still ski switch enough to want twins.
They're great skis, they're just still pretty directional skis. I'm in the same boat — love the Mindbenders and Enforcers, but something more playful and freestyle friendly with similar overall performance would make me a happy guy.