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50 dead. Done at a gay nightclub in Florida. Officially the worst shooting in US history. In a very gun friendly state. I haven't read what type of weapons he used, but it will be interesting to know
For real though sandy hook happened and all the old white guys running this country could care less . Think they are going to care about 50 adult gay people. Nope because caring means a lost of revenue to line their pockets with from the gun industry.
SkiBum.Why? Did the bullet and the gun kill people? No, a crazy dude did. Fuck off with your gun shit you know nothing about.
There has been far more cons since the assault weapons ban was lifted. More mass killings than ever before. Please list one pro that has happened since the ban has been lifted. Just one.
"Congressman Alan Grayson identified the man and said he was in his late 20s. "He was a U.S. citizen. That's not true of some of his family members," he said."
Wtf does his family have to do with this. Is this going to turn into one of those 'we're going to kill the families of terrorists' crusades that Trump endorses?
Still, despite what people are saying, there is still no proof whatsoever that there is any agenda at play meaning there is no proof whatsoever that it is a terrorist attack.
VinnieFuhm.. yes. Bullets are exactly what killed those people.
No, a crazy dude did.
Make bullets illegale? Make guns illegale? None of this shit stops anything. You fuck heads don't get it. Fuck off with your a it gun shit you know nothing Bout. Few wackos take the rights away from us responsible gun owners. And people like you spew garbage about it
VinnieF"Congressman Alan Grayson identified the man and said he was in his late 20s. "He was a U.S. citizen. That's not true of some of his family members," he said."
Wtf does his family have to do with this. Is this going to turn into one of those 'we're going to kill the families of terrorists' crusades that Trump endorses?
Still, despite what people are saying, there is still no proof whatsoever that there is any agenda at play meaning there is no proof whatsoever that it is a terrorist attack.
Haven't you seen the shooter's name? This was a terrorist attack carried out by an islamist. Apparently Isis announced they were going to attack Florida days before the shooting.
Make bullets illegale? Make guns illegale? None of this shit stops anything. You fuck heads don't get it. Fuck off with your a it gun shit you know nothing Bout. Few wackos take the rights away from us responsible gun owners. And people like you spew garbage about it
I really don't think you understand what you're saying. The dude didn't just will those people to die. Bullets are what physically ripped through their bodies and killed them.
I'm in no way arguing on any side of gun control, I'm just pointing out that bullets are what killed. There is no way around this.
Gods_FatherHaven't you seen the shooter's name? This was a terrorist attack carried out by an islamist. Apparently Isis announced they were going to attack Florida days before the shooting.
Oh, right. A Muslim name means it's automatically a terrorist with ties to ISIS.
It doesn't at all matter what his name was, at this point there is zero proof (at least released to the public) that it was terrorism.
There's a good chance that it was, but it bothers me so much when people just assume based on an ethnicity.
Also ISIS claiming responsibility actually means fuck all. They'd claim responsibility for an asteroid hitting the States if they could.
Gods_FatherHaven't you seen the shooter's name? This was a terrorist attack carried out by an islamist. Apparently Isis announced they were going to attack Florida days before the shooting.
ISIS did not announce that they were going to attack Florida, a pro-ISIS group did. Massive difference. ISIS said they would be active during Ramadan, but did not specify where.
Make bullets illegale? Make guns illegale? None of this shit stops anything. You fuck heads don't get it. Fuck off with your a it gun shit you know nothing Bout. Few wackos take the rights away from us responsible gun owners. And people like you spew garbage about it
Think This and other shootings would have happened if assault weapons were illegal? Think of how many people have died because of people fighting for gun rights. Have your pistols rifles and shot guns and out law weapons designed for mass killings like the one used this morning.
Gods_FatherHaven't you seen the shooter's name? This was a terrorist attack carried out by an islamist.
Way to not jump to a conclusion solely based on someone's name. There's no point making any claims until more evidence is gathered and right now this is a rather bigoted remark on your part. For all we know he could be a Christian fundamentalist, for example.
onenerdykidWay to not jump to a conclusion solely based on someone's name. There's no point making any claims until more evidence is gathered and right now this is a rather bigoted remark on your part. For all we know he could be a Christian fundamentalist, for example.
Haha I should have switched the last 2 sentences around.
VinnieF"Congressman Alan Grayson identified the man and said he was in his late 20s. "He was a U.S. citizen. That's not true of some of his family members," he said."
Wtf does his family have to do with this. Is this going to turn into one of those 'we're going to kill the families of terrorists' crusades that Trump endorses?
Still, despite what people are saying, there is still no proof whatsoever that there is any agenda at play meaning there is no proof whatsoever that it is a terrorist attack.
Before this thread gets derailed let's make a few things clear.
NO ONE IS TRYING TO TAKE AWAY YOUR GUNS. NOT OBAMA, NOT HILLARY, SO SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT IT.
THIS WILL BE MORE IMPORTANT TO THE OUTCOME OF THE PRESIDENTIAL RACE THAN IT WILL BE TOWARDS GUN LEGISLATION.
THE GOVERNMENT CAN MONITOR EVERYTHING YOU DO THROUGH TECHNOLOGY YET STILL CAN'T STOP THESE THINGS. WE SHOULD BE MORE CONCERNED ABOUT THIS INFRINGEMENT OF PRIVACY THAN WE ARE.
Before this thread gets derailed let's make a few things clear.
NO ONE IS TRYING TO TAKE AWAY YOUR GUNS. NOT OBAMA, NOT HILLARY, SO SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT IT.
THIS WILL BE MORE IMPORTANT TO THE OUTCOME OF THE PRESIDENTIAL RACE THAN IT WILL BE TOWARDS GUN LEGISLATION.
THE GOVERNMENT CAN MONITOR EVERYTHING YOU DO THROUGH TECHNOLOGY YET STILL CAN'T STOP THESE THINGS. WE SHOULD BE MORE CONCERNED ABOUT THIS INFRINGEMENT OF PRIVACY THAN WE ARE.
skiermanBut wait, where's the good guy with a gun!?
I thought they were like everywhere and could stop any mass shooting, thus no further gun control measures are needed.
Then again how many people do you think would bring a concealed weapon to a gay bar? Not to mention I doubt any nightclub would let people in carrying...
Also not sure if it was actually ISIS. ISIS definitely claims more than they actually do, they will claim just about anything against America at this point. Also the government stands only to benefit as it will just increase the anti Isis movement and contribute to their campaigns. Hard to know what is truly Isis with everything at this point
I don't want to start a huge argument on gun laws and all... but I don't see gun control doing a whole lot. theres so many guns on the black market its crazy
and people are messed up, even if you take away guns there are knives, bombs, and more. so yes, something should be done but until people themselves change shit like this will continue to happen
onenerdykidWay to not jump to a conclusion solely based on someone's name. There's no point making any claims until more evidence is gathered and right now this is a rather bigoted remark on your part. For all we know he could be a Christian fundamentalist, for example.
Stick to boots . You sound like every libtard that ever repeated the Christian argument protecting the scourge of the earth that is Islam .
nate1097Also not sure if it was actually ISIS. ISIS definitely claims more than they actually do, they will claim just about anything against America at this point. Also the government stands only to benefit as it will just increase the anti Isis movement and contribute to their campaigns. Hard to know what is truly Isis with everything at this point
The spokes person of ISIS, Abu Mohammed Al-Adnani, has, in the past (one source says 2014), apparently come out calling for so-called lone-wolf jihadists to carry out an act of terror in their name, and not to ask for permission.
SkiBum.Why? Did the bullet and the gun kill people? No, a crazy dude did. Fuck off with your gun shit you know nothing about.
buzzedThere has been far more cons since the assault weapons ban was lifted. More mass killings than ever before. Please list one pro that has happened since the ban has been lifted. Just one.
Ban all bullets and guns then. Except for police and government. This way we will be able to live in peace and bad guys won't be able to get guns
fuckmekevinBan all bullets and guns then. Except for police and government. This way we will be able to live in peace and bad guys won't be able to get guns
By this logic, we should just ban murder. If we do that, the criminals won't kill anyone, because they don't want to break the law. This way we will be able to live in peace and the bad guys won't be able to murder people.
fuckmekevinBan all bullets and guns then. Except for police and government. This way we will be able to live in peace and bad guys won't be able to get guns
Do you mean just like the rest of the first world nations ? It seems to work just fine for them. And please don't post some article from a right wing nut job site making up fake data about Austria's gun ban.
jblaskiBy this logic, we should just ban murder. If we do that, the criminals won't kill anyone, because they don't want to break the law. This way we will be able to live in peace and the bad guys won't be able to murder people.
Bad guys get guns legally and it is a fact that most shootings happen in areas were concealed carry is ALLOWED! If we banned all guns and bullets, only the government and police would have them, which would make every law abiding citizen safer. It is hard for criminals to get guns when they are illegal.
buzzedDo you mean just like the rest of the first world nations ? It seems to work just fine for them. And please don't post some article from a right wing nut job site making up fake data about Austria's gun ban.
Well usually after a gun ban is implemented violent crime will rise and murder rate, before a swift drop in these stats. This was the case with Australia.
Obviously, many variables come into play and we shouldn't compare other countries with the US, because we know where most shootings happen; metropolitan areas with a population of over 100,000 and we know exactly where in these areas shootings are most likely to happen.
From the 1980's gun ownership has risen, while there has been a 51% decrease in violent crime and a 47% decrease in murder rate due to firearms. So maybe, now that I think about it we shouldn't ban guns but look at the various other variables that come into play. Wealth-inequality, education would be just a few examples.
GORILLAWALLACEsays everyone from the only first world country where this happens on a regular basis.
fuck you guys are stupid.
lol wanna quote the rest of my argument?
yes banning guns will help in some way but violence will still happen. Boston marathon didn't have any guns involved... See what I mean? shit is still gonna happen so as much as I hate to say "guns don't kill people, people kill people", people do need to change more than the law does
The problem of gun violence lies within METROPOLITAN AREAS with a population greater than 200,000 people. Numerous variables come into play when comparing other countries to the US and the straight-shooting fact is that the media does not constitute for said variables.
The AR-15 is a subset of a rifle and RIFLES CAUSE ONLY 3.5% OF GUN-RELATED HOMICIDES!! The question is, why pinpoint the sub-set of a rifle, why?
REMEMBER, FBI statistics US- 1992- violent crime rate of 757.7 per 100,000 and a murder rate of specifically 9.3. Almost twenty years later, 2011 US has a violent crime rate of 386.3 a 50% REDUCTION in violent crime and a murder rate of 4.7 a 54% reduction! It's better than you are conditioned to believe.
In order to FIX these problems, instead of banning guns we have to try to figure out how to improve the POVERTY LEVEL, HOW TO IMPROVE THE EDUCATION SYSTEM AND HOW TO CREATE JOBS, THAT IS HOW YOU WILL IMPROVE THE VIOLENT CRIME RATE AND MURDER RATE!!!! Our society often attempts to find solutions from within the problem. This is why bullying will never be eradicated under this social order. This is why sexism thrives; this is why class warfare is fed from the teet of propaganda. THE PROBLEM ISN"T THE GUNS!!!
In the US there’s 2.3 violent crimes that happen every minute and 3,297 violent crimes that happen everyday.
Yes, lets propose solutions bit let us not dialogue the cause of these problems. We have yet to define or fully understand these problems so no short term solution will work effectively.
There’s a logic to violent crime. What drives violence?
We engage in violence to elevate and maintain a status quota. A social outcast, someone who doesn’t fit in; the mainstream media rewards violence, infamy and an immediate celebrity. This promulgates that violence may be an attractive choice. It simply follow a logic.
This is all about the perception of threat. The quest for surveil is one of the key drives of state sponsored violence. Violence can rectify survival.
Moreover, protection is a rational for violence. People will rectify violence to protect their political status, obsessions, interests, loved ones, investments, property, domicile, offspring, etc. If one perceives a threat to any of these aforementioned things violence can be instigated.
Is violence justified, I’m not saying that it is or isn’t what I’m saying is that there is a logic to violence.
Maybe be ought to make policies that mitigate logical violence, if of course we understand the logic. Defining that logic can be utilized for policy making to bite back violence but instead we are focused on a tool; a gun, which is utilized to commit violence. You can not fix a problem from within that problem.
In conclusion, there’s a good chance 10 violent crimes have been committed in the time of me writing this. There’s also a good chance that none of those violent crimes involved a gun. However, there's a very good chance that all of these crimes followed a logic.
I would also say improving wealth inequality is a start.
One could make the assumption that more equality=less guns overall. More inequality results in a high demand for criminal purposes. Where these is a demand, there is someone or something to supply that demand, regardless of laws.
Look at Jamaica for example, they have virtually banned civilian gun ownership but the fact that guns are in very high demand, this results in a lot of guns begin smuggled into the country, hence a firearm-related death rate per 100,000 pop. per year of 40.
I also want to point out that many gun related deaths in the IS (2/3) are due to suicides and not murders and many can easily shape statistics this way to their benefits.
THEDIRTYBUBBLEYes banning guns is totally the answer. It worked so well with alcohol and drugs. Banning guns will totally help.
America is the only developed nation in the world to see this sort of mass shootings on a monthly basis. The problem in part lies with guns, but more the accessibility of guns. Take Switzerland as an example of a state relatively close to America in terms of economic, social and demographic. They have roughly about 47 guns per 100 people, compared to America's 112 guns per 100 people. So if guns were solely the problem we should see roughly about half the mass shootings in Switzerland, which we don't.
Now back to the accessibility of guns. Switzerland has long had a gun culture much like in America. The difference here is people are trained how to use a gun, a gun is not considered a god given right. You are trained how to use one, and undergo physical and mental tests to ensure you are sound body and mind to own a gun. Nothing even close comes to that in America. The abortion clinic shooter was deemed mentally unfit to stand trial and yet this man was freely and able to get his hands on a gun.
America can have their guns, but something needs to be done to ensure people like Dylan Roof, this man and others who are mentally unfit and should never been allowed to own a gun. You should undergo training in how to use a gun. You should have a mental evaluation. Because most of your mass shootings are avoidable if you just follow Switzerland's gun laws.
S.J.WAmerica is the only developed nation in the world to see this sort of mass shootings on a monthly basis. The problem in part lies with guns, but more the accessibility of guns. Take Switzerland as an example of a state relatively close to America in terms of economic, social and demographic. They have roughly about 47 guns per 100 people, compared to America's 112 guns per 100 people. So if guns were solely the problem we should see roughly about half the mass shootings in Switzerland, which we don't.
Now back to the accessibility of guns. Switzerland has long had a gun culture much like in America. The difference here is people are trained how to use a gun, a gun is not considered a god given right. You are trained how to use one, and undergo physical and mental tests to ensure you are sound body and mind to own a gun. Nothing even close comes to that in America. The abortion clinic shooter was deemed mentally unfit to stand trial and yet this man was freely and able to get his hands on a gun.
America can have their guns, but something needs to be done to ensure people like Dylan Roof, this man and others who are mentally unfit and should never been allowed to own a gun. You should undergo training in how to use a gun. You should have a mental evaluation. Because most of your mass shootings are avoidable if you just follow Switzerland's gun laws.
My comment was in response to those above who called for a complete ban of guns. I myself am open to such ideas for regulation.
skiermanBut wait, where's the good guy with a gun!?
I thought they were like everywhere and could stop any mass shooting, thus no further gun control measures are needed.
Cant conceal carry inside a bar.
The state statute that covers the license to carry a weapon, Title XLVI Chapter 790, clearly states that guns are not permitted in bars.
Section (12)(a) tells concealed carry license holders that “A license issued under this section does not authorize any person to openly carry a handgun or carry a concealed weapon or firearm into: Any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose.”
JAHpowDude, the guy was a licensed security officer. His accessibility to firearms is not the issue.
Read on one of the articles that the FBI had looked into him in 2013 but the interview was inconclusive or something.
This was terrible to hear about this morning. I lived in Orlando for 6 years and this one hit close to home for me.