theabortionator

As someone who has worked in McDonalds, it's so easy. But it's the fucking worst thing ever.I wouldn't wish my worst enemy to work at McDonalds for 8 bucks an hour.

if you are honestly jealous of $15/hr then maybe your chosen life of "love over money" isntt working out so well.

S.J.WAs someone who has worked in McDonalds, it's so easy. But it's the fucking worst thing ever.I wouldn't wish my worst enemy to work at McDonalds for 8 bucks an hour.

It's not meant to be a life long job that's the problem. You're not supposed to buy your dream home while working at mcdonalds or washing dishes. These are entry level jobs. Great for high schoolers. Great first jobs. Or people who need some loot and are in between jobs.

A better thing would be more jobs, and this isn't going to help that, especially for entry level positions.

californiagrownif you are honestly jealous of $15/hr then maybe your chosen life of "love over money" isntt working out so well.

Not agreeing with something = jealousy. Mmmkay. Great logic.

theabortionatorNot agreeing with something = jealousy. Mmmkay. Great logic.

I literally said "if you are jealous". Not sure how you got "disagree" from that.

californiagrownI literally said "if you are jealous". Not sure how you got "disagree" from that.

I just wanted to argue. I have seen a lot of "Well I make this and it's not fair" type posts on the facebook though

theabortionatorI just wanted to argue. I have seen a lot of "Well I make this and it's not fair" type posts on the facebook though

wait, you were trying to start an argument on NS. why would you do such a thing?!

theabortionatorIt's not meant to be a life long job that's the problem. You're not supposed to buy your dream home while working at mcdonalds or washing dishes. These are entry level jobs. Great for high schoolers. Great first jobs. Or people who need some loot and are in between jobs.

A better thing would be more jobs, and this isn't going to help that, especially for entry level positions.

But doesnt this bring up the question that may be skilled and unskilled laborers in America just aren't being paid enough. I make more than $15 an hour, but seriously if you have a college degree and you're only getting $15 an hour I think you're being underpaid

There are so many people in this thread who dont understand economics and are just regurgitating talking points.

People want $15 an hour so they DONT have to be leaches, so they dont have to collect government assistance, so they can do better for themselves.

I dont think making it so the fast food worker can afford their rent, food, and healthcare, means that everyone working in the greasy hot fast food kitchens will want to work there till they are 62... If you believe that, you are wrong.

Finding a job is hard, affording college is hard, affording insurance is hard.

We opened a job up for an accounts payable clerk at my place of work. Starting pay $11 an hour, college degree required. We received over 70 applications from qualified applicants. You probably could have opened that job up for 9, or 8 bucks an hour and filled the position with a qualified applicant.

The job is worth more, but there is a surplus of workers compared to open positions, there ALWAYS IS... This means that its no longer basic supply and demand economics, and there needs to be a bottom line to make sure these people can afford to sustain themselves. Otherwise they end up using benefits from the middle class. The middle class should want to raise the minimum wage more than anything else, the only people who shouldnt want to are the actual top earners in society.

You are in fact misinformed if you think otherwise.

There is a lot of good information out there,

1)go find statistics, not fox news articles,

2) look who does the statistics, make sure they wouldnt have a massive bias in one way or another.

3) Realize what I am saying is right

4) ?????????

5) profit

theabortionatorIt's not meant to be a life long job that's the problem. You're not supposed to buy your dream home while working at mcdonalds or washing dishes. These are entry level jobs. Great for high schoolers. Great first jobs. Or people who need some loot and are in between jobs.

A better thing would be more jobs, and this isn't going to help that, especially for entry level positions.

There's 4.8 million unfilled skilled jobs out there. There's no shortage of jobs if someone wants to train themselves.

Anyways. When I worked at McDonalds a lot of the older people there hardly spoke English but moved to Canada and Australia for their kids. I met one of their kids who is the most humble nicest little Indian boy ever who had knowledge beyond his years. And it breaks my heart that his parents had to work 60 hours a week at 2 different jobs just to put a roof over his head.

I'm not advocating for 15 an hour wage, but the minimum wage hasn't increased with inflation and the cost of living so just a little increase. Maybe to ten or something.

S.J.WThere's 4.8 million unfilled skilled jobs out there. There's no shortage of jobs if someone wants to train themselves.

This raises a good point, yes and no.

"only 15% of employers who say they see a skill shortage say that the issue is a lack of candidate knowledge, which is what we'd normally think of as skill. Instead, by far the most important shortfall they see in candidates is a lack of experience doing similar jobs." -Times magazine

Its the old "You need 2-4 years of experience for this position, but how the fuck do you get 2-4 years of experience if you cant get the position or one incredibly similar"

Going to college, gaining skills, get a better job as the right likes to say isnt quite that simple.

The referenced post has been removed.

DlCKMore incentive to work, more skilled laborers, more productivity, more economic activity. You will see an initial decline overall at first as companies adjust to the new payroll demands but eventually there will be a huge amount of spending. The cost of commodities wont rise because more people will be purchasing them. The cost of housing wont become unaffordable because there will be more first time home owners. Well paid, happy workers are efficient and spend regularly. Underpaid, pissed off workers dont spend at all.

There is no shortage of supply in any market, only a lack of demand due to everyone being so damn poor.

You ignored this post champ, good job.

BESIDES Economics isnt even a science. They cant predict anything. It relies so heavily on assumptions that most economic models have never been accurate of precise.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/opinionator/2013/08/24/what-is-economics-good-for/?referrer=http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/opinionator/2013/08/24/what-is-economics-good-for/?referrer=

NO economic model can account for innovation or discovery.

"Common Sense Economic Model of 2015"

More money, more spending

No money, no spending

I made $12 an hour to pour foundations when I was in college, and I stoked to be making that kind of money. What has happened to the world when people building houses will be making less than those who produce shitty food.

I am a strong believer that you get paid what you are worth, and to anyone saying its hard to find a job hahahahaha. Its hard to find a job where you paid to do nothing, but if your looking for a job in which you actually have to work there are a shit ton of them. Almost every business I know is constantly looking for a better employee and would hire one on the spot. The problem is everyone just wants to sit on their asses and complain and have the government come to their rescue, instead of going out sweating, and earning an honest living.

All minimum wage does is handcuff the employer. If you're not happy with what you are making go change it and remember you shook someones hand and agreed to get paid what you are. You made a business deal, you had a choice. Stop blaming other people for your own problems.

AT-ATI made $12 an hour to pour foundations when I was in college, and I stoked to be making that kind of money. What has happened to the world when people building houses will be making less than those who produce shitty food.

I am a strong believer that you get paid what you are worth, and to anyone saying its hard to find a job hahahahaha. Its hard to find a job where you paid to do nothing, but if your looking for a job in which you actually have to work there are a shit ton of them. Almost every business I know is constantly looking for a better employee and would hire one on the spot. The problem is everyone just wants to sit on their asses and complain and have the government come to their rescue, instead of going out sweating, and earning an honest living.

All minimum wage does is handcuff the employer. If you're not happy with what you are making go change it and remember you shook someones hand and agreed to get paid what you are. You made a business deal, you had a choice. Stop blaming other people for your own problems.

It's been decades since hourly pay is been adjusted, maybe you should also be making more money for pouring foundation. Ever think of that everyone wins.

AT-ATI made $12 an hour to pour foundations when I was in college, and I stoked to be making that kind of money. What has happened to the world when people building houses will be making less than those who produce shitty food.

All minimum wage does is handcuff the employer. If you're not happy with what you are making go change it and remember you shook someones hand and agreed to get paid what you are. You made a business deal, you had a choice. Stop blaming other people for your own problems.

Sweet Jesus, how does everyone think this is meant to be a comparative thing! You were pouring concrete, to make foundations, sounds like a labor intensive job, I say you should be getting paid more than $12 an hour.

They got together, and went on strike so they could feed their families and kids and put a roof over their heads. BUT FUCK THEM RIGHT?!

Since when did standing up for yourself become a dispicable act?

AT-ATIf you're not happy with what you are making go change it

you do realize that's EXACTLY what these fast food workers did?

nocturnalIt's been decades since hourly pay is been adjusted, maybe you should also be making more money for pouring foundation. Ever think of that everyone wins.

I didn't deserve more. I made what I should have. The man I was working for also deserved to go home and be able to feed his kids and pay his mortgage.

AT-ATThe man I was working for also deserved to go home and be able to feed his kids and pay his mortgage.

Yeah cause im sure the majority share holders and CEO's of McDonalds are going to be STRUGGLING to put food on the table now.

ndyeYeah cause im sure the majority share holders and CEO's of McDonalds are going to be STRUGGLING to put food on the table now.

80% of mcdonalds worldwide are privately owned.

AT-ATI didn't deserve more. I made what I should have. The man I was working for also deserved to go home and be able to feed his kids and pay his mortgage.

I guess my point is, everyone who works full time, and when I say work, I mean show up on time, work hard and consistently, should be able to afford putting food on the table for their family and paying their rent. THATS IT, THATS ALL ANYONE IS ASKING FOR

AT-AT80% of mcdonalds worldwide are privately owned.

Yes I understand that, as part of the franchise agreement, I can also look up total profits for these franchises.

2013 so a little old but: http://www.ask.com/business-finance/mcdonald-s-franchise-s-profit-8f7327118fa3c180

If there is an issue and all these restaurants start struggling, Mcdonalds may have to decrease their royalty fee to avoid having franchises go under.

But I suppose in the end what I am saying is, McDonalds will be fine, and so will the franchise owners.

ndyeYes I understand that, as part of the franchise agreement, I can also look up total profits for these franchises.

2013 so a little old but: http://www.ask.com/business-finance/mcdonald-s-franchise-s-profit-8f7327118fa3c180

If there is an issue and all these restaurants start struggling, Mcdonalds may have to decrease their royalty fee to avoid having franchises go under.

But I suppose in the end what I am saying is, McDonalds will be fine, and so will the franchise owners.

McDonalds is actually getting killed by places like Chipotle, smash burger, and toco bell breakfast, I think they had their first flat quarter like 5 months ago.

nocturnalMcDonalds is actually getting killed by places like Chipotle, smash burger, and toco bell breakfast, I think they had their first flat quarter like 5 months ago.

Isn't McDonalds the parent company for Chipotle? Or at least they used to be.

ndyeThere are so many people in this thread who dont understand economics and are just regurgitating talking points.

People want $15 an hour so they DONT have to be leaches, so they dont have to collect government assistance, so they can do better for themselves.

I dont think making it so the fast food worker can afford their rent, food, and healthcare, means that everyone working in the greasy hot fast food kitchens will want to work there till they are 62... If you believe that, you are wrong.

Finding a job is hard, affording college is hard, affording insurance is hard.

We opened a job up for an accounts payable clerk at my place of work. Starting pay $11 an hour, college degree required. We received over 70 applications from qualified applicants. You probably could have opened that job up for 9, or 8 bucks an hour and filled the position with a qualified applicant.

The job is worth more, but there is a surplus of workers compared to open positions, there ALWAYS IS... This means that its no longer basic supply and demand economics, and there needs to be a bottom line to make sure these people can afford to sustain themselves. Otherwise they end up using benefits from the middle class. The middle class should want to raise the minimum wage more than anything else, the only people who shouldnt want to are the actual top earners in society.

You are in fact misinformed if you think otherwise.

There is a lot of good information out there,

1)go find statistics, not fox news articles,

2) look who does the statistics, make sure they wouldnt have a massive bias in one way or another.

3) Realize what I am saying is right

4) ?????????

5) profit

Your example literally is basic supply and demand, the supply is greater than demand so the price is going down. I don't see how this isn't supply and demand

Also maybe if you are working at McDonald's now isn't the time to have a child and start a family.

If this thing passes too there is one thing I can guarantee that will happen, all those unskilled workers and immigrants who can't get a job better than McDonald's will be fired as quick as legally possible and be replaced with one of the many more qualified, harder working applicants who will start to apply. So, in the end I don't care how much you really think those workers deserve a raise, it will be your fault when they are out of work.

Lol Liberal doublethink:

http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/15-minimum-wage-campaigners-frustrated-now-demanding-fewer-hours-guess-why/

cobra_commanderLol Liberal doublethink:

http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/15-minimum-wage-campaigners-frustrated-now-demanding-fewer-hours-guess-why/

Ahhh the libertarianreuplic.com, the true bastion of credibility.

cobra_commanderLol Liberal doublethink:

http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/15-minimum-wage-campaigners-frustrated-now-demanding-fewer-hours-guess-why/

LOL at any publication that thinks Ayn Rand is something worth quoting.

Furthermore, any publication that just seeks to hate on ideas rather than understand how they could lead to a greater understanding of things is missing the point. All that website does is seek to belittle and undermine a given position, and any website that does that is too emotionally charged to be taken seriously.

Granite_StateAhhh the libertarianreuplic.com, the true bastion of credibility.

Its up there with slate. These far spectrum media sites, while not a good general sources of news do provide unique stories that others would generally glass over. I suggest folks pay some attention to those on the left and right.

cool_nameYour example literally is basic supply and demand, the supply is greater than demand so the price is going down. I don't see how this isn't supply and demand

You're right, sorry I meant to say that's why supply and demand economics no longer works. with basic supply and demand Economics for jobs, people make dirt money and thats not the way we should look and approach things

theabortionatorI'm from new york. I'm not saying that invalidates what you're saying. Just that I'm not forgetting the cost of living here. Also like anywhere it else it varies greatly. NYC is not new york state. Honestly living in the state of new york away from NYC is actually pretty damn affordable.

i grew up in upstate and moved to long island after college...

NYS is expensive regardless of where you live.

first_rodeoi grew up in upstate and moved to long island after college...

NYS is expensive regardless of where you live.

So insanely untrue the difference between Westchester LI nyc and upstate New York is astronomical

Interesting piece by a former chief economist of the US Debt. of Labor

http://thefederalist.com/2015/07/17/sorry-paul-krugman-the-minimum-wage-wont-miraculously-cure-poverty/

Let the people pay their bills, raise the minimum wage.

Argument: The poor are leaches off the government.

Counter: Raise the minimum wage so they dont have to take government assistance.

Argument: LEACHES, JUST WANTING MORE, LEACHES I TELL YOU LEACHES.

Raise the minimum wage, get people on their feet, allow people to do eat and live in housing without government assistance. You're misguided if you don't get this.

ndyeLet the people pay their bills, raise the minimum wage.

Argument: The poor are leaches off the government.

Counter: Raise the minimum wage so they dont have to take government assistance.

Argument: LEACHES, JUST WANTING MORE, LEACHES I TELL YOU LEACHES.

Raise the minimum wage, get people on their feet, allow people to do eat and live in housing without government assistance. You're misguided if you don't get this.

you do understand that raising the minimum wage will put people out of work right? There will be less jobs.

cobra_commanderyou do understand that raising the minimum wage will put people out of work right? There will be less jobs.

You do understand that if we slashed the minimum wage we would increase hiring right? Lets destroy the minimum wage! Think about how many companies could hire more employees.

A full time job in the wealthiest country the world has ever seen should mean that you are capable of supporting yourself and putting a roof over your head.

Jobs that do not get people out of poverty accomplish almost nothing.

A spending middle class drives the economy, its middle out. Not top down. We need a stronger spending middle class to increase spending and increase the number of jobs in the country.

Raising the minimum wage will not only not eliminate all jobs, it will create a stronger, better middle class.

cobra_commanderyou do understand that raising the minimum wage will put people out of work right? There will be less jobs.

That's a compete lie. McDonalds and other fast food chains already operate on the lowest possible labour per output to maintain customer satisification. They can't cut down their employees otherwise they'll pretty much fuck up the restaraunt.

ndyeYou do understand that if we slashed the minimum wage we would increase hiring right? Lets destroy the minimum wage! Think about how many companies could hire more employees.

A full time job in the wealthiest country the world has ever seen should mean that you are capable of supporting yourself and putting a roof over your head.

Jobs that do not get people out of poverty accomplish almost nothing.

A spending middle class drives the economy, its middle out. Not top down. We need a stronger spending middle class to increase spending and increase the number of jobs in the country.

Raising the minimum wage will not only not eliminate all jobs, it will create a stronger, better middle class.

I actually support removing, or at least greatly reducing minimum wage for this reason, it will create more jobs.

Yes, some people will get hired and make shit all, but that is better than the alternative where they have no job and instead of making shit are just not making anything. In both cases the person is going to have a tough time supporting themselves, in the case where they have a job though that is only temporary.

That job will give them experience allowing them to prove and gain the skill necessary to demand a higher wage.

cool_nameThat job will give them experience allowing them to prove and gain the skill necessary to demand a higher wage.

The problem there is that the jobs these people will have are not skilled jobs where they can effectively prove they are worth more. You could be the greatest cashier McDonald's has ever had, but in the end, if you wanted more money, they could have you replaced by the end of the day.

cool_nameI actually support removing, or at least greatly reducing minimum wage for this reason, it will create more jobs.

Yes, some people will get hired and make shit all, but that is better than the alternative where they have no job and instead of making shit are just not making anything. In both cases the person is going to have a tough time supporting themselves, in the case where they have a job though that is only temporary.

That job will give them experience allowing them to prove and gain the skill necessary to demand a higher wage.

Power to you if thats what you think, just know that with this scenario, many more people would rely on government assistance. The vast majority would not ever move up, and the cycle of poverty would continue rolling onward and onward. Relying on the government wouldnt be the last option, it would be the norm, and thats dangerous as could be.

ndyePower to you if thats what you think, just know that with this scenario, many more people would rely on government assistance. The vast majority would not ever move up, and the cycle of poverty would continue rolling onward and onward. Relying on the government wouldnt be the last option, it would be the norm, and thats dangerous as could be.

To go on, it would be companies subsidizing their payroll by government assistance paid for by the citizens, and then privately profiting off their business. This is an outright terrible idea. Capitalism without rules, consolidates wealth and power, to the point that people like you don't realize they are voting against their own interests, and instead are just regurgitating the propaganda handed to you from the elites of society.

S.J.WThat's a compete lie. McDonalds and other fast food chains already operate on the lowest possible labour per output to maintain customer satisification. They can't cut down their employees otherwise they'll pretty much fuck up the restaraunt.

You are looking at one small group in a singular industry, you need to look beyond that. What about the small fast food joints that are trying to compete with McDonalds and the other large chains? What about local bike stores, ski shops, general stores, etc. that will also have to increase their wages that they pay to their workers?

People will be losing jobs because of this increase in wages, it is a given and absolutely idiotic to think otherwise. The question that people should be asking is how many? Is it an acceptable amount? Is there better rate at which the losses can be reduced while increasing the wages?

.MASSHOLE.You are looking at one small group in a singular industry, you need to look beyond that. What about the small fast food joints that are trying to compete with McDonalds and the other large chains? What about local bike stores, ski shops, general stores, etc. that will also have to increase their wages that they pay to their workers?

People will be losing jobs because of this increase in wages, it is a given and absolutely idiotic to think otherwise. The question that people should be asking is how many? Is it an acceptable amount? Is there better rate at which the losses can be reduced while increasing the wages?

What people that work at ski shops, bike shops, etc,etc are trying to support their family? Personally I think with this wage increase that a family trying to put food on their table is more important than little joey waxing skis so he can afford alcohol and new skis.

.MASSHOLE.You are looking at one small group in a singular industry, you need to look beyond that. What about the small fast food joints that are trying to compete with McDonalds and the other large chains? What about local bike stores, ski shops, general stores, etc. that will also have to increase their wages that they pay to their workers?

People will be losing jobs because of this increase in wages, it is a given and absolutely idiotic to think otherwise. The question that people should be asking is how many? Is it an acceptable amount? Is there better rate at which the losses can be reduced while increasing the wages?

Hypothetical situation - I'm not economist, but these are my thoughts.

An employer currently needs M people on the job to adequately meet customer demand. He pays them minimum wage. If the minimum wage was to increase but customer demand was to remain the same, he would still need M people. The employer is now faced with added labor cost. The employer could increase his prices, but this would result in one of two things: 1) the customer demand stays the same even with higher prices, and so M employees are still required at any one time to meet that demand, or 2) the customer demand decreases due to increased prices, and the employer may choose to decrease the number of employees in order continue making the same profit.

The only reason that the employer would decrease the number of employees on the floor at any given time would be if customer demand dropped. The reason customer demand would drop would be from increased prices. Would a business (fast food franchise, ski shop, or otherwise) raise its prices if faced with a new minimum wage? Would that actually decrease customer demand? I'd expect that the extent to which a fast food restaurant would have to raise prices would be small relative to the amount required to deter people from eating there. For ski shops and local businesses, I'd expect most people understand the cost of good service and are willing to pay it. For (a cherrypicked) example, the ski shop at which I used to work once added $10-20 dollars to the cost of binding mounts and tunes. As far as I know, they performed no fewer mounts/tunes after making those adjustments.

Thoughts? Am I missing something?

S.J.WWhat people that work at ski shops, bike shops, etc,etc are trying to support their family? Personally I think with this wage increase that a family trying to put food on their table is more important than little joey waxing skis so he can afford alcohol and new skis.

Do you think there should be a distinction between the minimum wage that a full time employee is eligible to receive versus the minimum wage that a part time employee is eligible to receive? Why or why not?

mirozDo you think there should be a distinction between the minimum wage that a full time employee is eligible to receive versus the minimum wage that a part time employee is eligible to receive? Why or why not?

Hmm, that's a good question. And I never thought of it like that. That would address both sides of the argument for little billy trying to buy new skis and that woman trying to keep a roof over her head. But yes that does sound like a good idea. Have a minium wage of around 10 dollars for full time employees. And raise the minium wage for part time employees to around 8 or something.

But then one would argue that places like McDonalds would only hire part time employees. To which I would say again McDonalds can't cut hours because they need x amount of staff to meet demand. And like I've already said, places like McDonalds already use minium staff for the amount of orders they receive.

S.J.WThat's a compete lie. McDonalds and other fast food chains already operate on the lowest possible labour per output to maintain customer satisification. They can't cut down their employees otherwise they'll pretty much fuck up the restaraunt.

More than mcD's and other fast food companies employ people at rates at or slightly above the minimum. Everyone just likes to focus on those since they are conviently between the 'poor oppressed worker' and the 'big evil corporation.'

Mir is also much deeper than current jobs that will disappear. the real damage is in jobs that would have but now won't appear. The statistics show that not a lot of jobs directly disapear with higher minimum wages but rather there are many jobs that don't materialize dus to higher risk and lack of incentive. We are already seeing this in the Seattle area. Businesses that would pay between $10 and $20 an hour are choosing to expand elsewhere, and people are dreclining to start new businesses in that pay range inside the city.

CaptainObvious.Dub post, but $15/hr is just at or more than the starting salary for a TEACHER in half of the states in the US.

.....where you're required to have a college degree.

Just gonna throw that out there.

And fuck you with your summers off bullshit because, once again, that's the salary WITH A DEGREE. Four years of school past high school and thousands of dollars to make the same as a fry cook and get three months off. Fuck you very much, but maybe this is why our education quality in the US is shit.

Maybe that's more of a statement about how fucked up teacher pay is than anything else...

Working class wages in the US are garbage all around. Bringing up the minimum wage may be a sort term solution that will work in some areas. The real problem is a society that values corporate profit over all else.