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Gym/Lifting/Workout

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hey-dude-its-me
Posts: 4238 - Karma: 412
The creator of 'The gym.. Getting big' asked for her thread to be deleted for some reason so I made this one
Mar 4 2014 12:46PM
1481 680
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El.Guapo
Posts: 2139 - Karma: 3,173
cobra_commanderAm I the only one who just has a cup of coffee as a 'pre-workout?'

It's all you need.


Watching one of those street workout videos. They take shots of folgers instant coffee sludge
Dec 26 2014 11:49AM
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louie.mirags
Posts: 6015 - Karma: 5,028
TheFapTry prewrek by swole. The flavor is excellent and it gives you a really nice pump without the jitters and shit that some give me. It's $30 on Amazon I think. Get green apple it's the bomb


good call on the swole. Got the boost and pump that I was looking for since I got used to the c4.

cobra_commanderAm I the only one who just has a cup of coffee as a 'pre-workout?'

It's all you need.


I tend to go to workout after work and I usually have at least 2 cups during the day. The coffee in the office sucks hard so I run out to the cafe down the street. I can't get there 30 mins before my workout when I get at 5pm. Preworkout is way more convenient for me and I love the boost it gives me. I used to use a cup of black coffee when I worked out first thing in the morning.
Dec 26 2014 1:38PM
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DayMan
Posts: 4702 - Karma: 8,727
Anyone else work out in the morning before school/work? I've been getting to bed by like 9 and getting up at 430/5ish to work out before school. I usually wake up, drink a bunch of coffee, do some homework while I wake up, take a coffee shit, and then I'm off to the gym/road biking/running/whatever. It's been working pretty well but I have to be really consistent about getting to bed or else my whole next day is screwed. I've also become way too dependent on caffeine hahah, I don't know what I would do without coffee. I just got an espresso machine for xmas too, so stoked to start using that.
Dec 27 2014 10:16AM
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Crispy.
Posts: 6102 - Karma: 7,626
RedPandaAnyone else work out in the morning before school/work? I've been getting to bed by like 9 and getting up at 430/5ish to work out before school.


This is what I always do, early morning lifts are so much better than later in the day. Plus it's awesome feeling super sore and being able to just sit in class all day and focus. However, this does screw me over if I lift legs/back and then want to go hard skiing that same day.
Dec 27 2014 12:03PM
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DayMan
Posts: 4702 - Karma: 8,727
Crispy.This is what I always do, early morning lifts are so much better than later in the day. Plus it's awesome feeling super sore and being able to just sit in class all day and focus. However, this does screw me over if I lift legs/back and then want to go hard skiing that same day.


Yeah it's really nice knowing that you're already done with your workout and don't have to worry about anything else getting in the way of it later on in the day.
Dec 27 2014 1:14PM
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90053
Posts: 2565 - Karma: 3,728
RedPandaYeah it's really nice knowing that you're already done with your workout and don't have to worry about anything else getting in the way of it later on in the day.


this is my goal
Dec 27 2014 1:30PM
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p.hawks
Posts: 2832 - Karma: 581
louie.miragsI just ran out of c4 and i've been using it for 3-4 months already 3-4 times a week. I got up to about a scoop and a half preworkout and it worked pretty good. Towards the end though I wasn't feeling the same pump and extra energy. Any recommendations on what brand I should buy today? I want to try another brand. Or do I need to take a break from it for a little while?


Nitraflex by GAT. I got mine for $30 with a free jar of adenoflex (which actually works decently). It is much stronger than c4. I was using up to 2 1/2 scoops of c4, I usually use 1/2 to 3/4 of a scoop, sometimes a full one of this. I like it better than c4.
Dec 27 2014 4:26PM
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jstan4
Posts: 177 - Karma: 46
RedPandaAnyone else work out in the morning before school/work? I've been getting to bed by like 9 and getting up at 430/5ish to work out before school. I usually wake up, drink a bunch of coffee, do some homework while I wake up, take a coffee shit, and then I'm off to the gym/road biking/running/whatever. It's been working pretty well but I have to be really consistent about getting to bed or else my whole next day is screwed. I've also become way too dependent on caffeine hahah, I don't know what I would do without coffee. I just got an espresso machine for xmas too, so stoked to start using that.


ur a champ for that - that discipline will prove to be a boon for the rest of your life
Dec 30 2014 9:28PM
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saskskier
Posts: 4772 - Karma: 9,984
Ugh.

Two weeks off work = all the time in the world to go to the gym, but it's closed for renovations (aka - doubling in size) until sometime next week (I think).
Dec 30 2014 9:55PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
Crispy.This is what I always do, early morning lifts are so much better than later in the day. Plus it's awesome feeling super sore and being able to just sit in class all day and focus. However, this does screw me over if I lift legs/back and then want to go hard skiing that same day.


I feel like pure shit for 3-4 hours after lifting hard in the morning. Cardio makes me feel great, maintenance stuff makes me feel great, hell even pump stuff does. But a good, heavy, hard workout makes me feel horrible for the rest of the morning. Not to mention my lifts suffer significantly.

I have had 3 seperate sustained(6+ months) periods in my life where i had to workout in the morning, and they all sucked hugely.

That said, it sure simplifies my life when i have the whole evening to run errands, go on dates, cook, etc.
Dec 31 2014 3:03AM
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galardogod
Posts: 1693 - Karma: 5,115
Yeah lifting in the morrow did not work for me I couldn't get anything I felt so weak
Dec 31 2014 10:36AM
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.AR6rider.
Posts: 15976 - Karma: 8,799
I have mixed feelings about this holiday "bulk." One one hand, I am easily pushing weight I have been struggling with lately, but on the other hand...goodbye, sweet abs. I suppose there is always time to slim down again before spring.
Dec 31 2014 11:12AM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,682
If you lift in the morning take care to get your body extra warmed up. Your internal temperature is lower right after you wake up. Spend an extra 10min on the rower or bike to get the body nice and warm. Run though some joint rotations as well.
Dec 31 2014 3:12PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
cobra_commanderIf you lift in the morning take care to get your body extra warmed up. Your internal temperature is lower right after you wake up. Spend an extra 10min on the rower or bike to get the body nice and warm. Run though some joint rotations as well.


Another issue is the discs in your back swell with fluid at night because they aren't being compressed. This makes them mor susceptible to tearing or rupture.

A good, thorough warmup like you said, can help mitigate this.
Dec 31 2014 4:37PM
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El.Guapo
Posts: 2139 - Karma: 3,173
.AR6rider.I have mixed feelings about this holiday "bulk." One one hand, I am easily pushing weight I have been struggling with lately, but on the other hand...goodbye, sweet abs. I suppose there is always time to slim down again before spring.


My metabolism is too crazy. Literally been eating a whole bunch of shit and I've lost weight
Jan 1 2015 3:41AM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
I lose weight anytime im not on a typical weekday schedule. Its tough to get in all your calories when you can only eat 3-4 meals per day, even though they are huge and calorie packed. 5-6 meals, per my usual schedule, allows me to get everything in without feeling like shit.

We're lucky because when we are older it will be much easier to maintain weight and muscle without having to worry much at all about getting fat.
Jan 1 2015 8:12PM
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saskskier
Posts: 4772 - Karma: 9,984
I hate you guys. All I have to do is look at food and I gain weight. I've always been relatively active and athletic and eat halfway decent (although often too much), but I've always been overweight. My saving grace is I'm tall (6'4) and have broad shoulders, so I hide it relatively well.

My brother's getting married in July, so my goal is to drop some of my excess by then. I'm around 285 right now, but in a perfect world I would like to be a relatively lean 230-240.

I really don't much about counting calories or figuring out macros, but I think for now my goal will be cutting out most fast food and soda as well as easing up on evening snacking (my biggest downfall).

I'm also planning on being in the gym 3-4 days a week (depending on what training cycle I get on), but I completely understand that you can't out train a bad diet and that's where the weight loss comes from.

Any thoughts or suggestions?
Jan 1 2015 8:39PM
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ABalls
Posts: 2091 - Karma: 3,754
^ damn you make me feel like a scrawny bitch, I'm only 190 at 6'3
Jan 1 2015 11:40PM
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juicedrummer11
Posts: 1960 - Karma: 1,331
TheFapMy metabolism is too crazy. Literally been eating a whole bunch of shit and I've lost weight


i feel your pain. this happens to me. not quite to that extent, but i weight more at the end of a solid week of lifting and eating than i do at the start of the week if i take the weekend off and eat slightly less. im not complaining but its sometimes hard to physically consume enough even with smaller spaced out meals
Jan 2 2015 12:15AM
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El.Guapo
Posts: 2139 - Karma: 3,173
ABalls^ damn you make me feel like a scrawny bitch, I'm only 190 at 6'3


Fuck all you guys, I was on a 5 day a week gym cycle eating like 4k pretty clean calories a day for 4 months and went from 140 to 155..And I'm 6'2"'. Back down to 150 since I haven't been to the gym in two weeks and I've been eating too little and too shitty
Jan 2 2015 2:36AM
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Olimar
Posts: 3535 - Karma: 4,074
Is there any way to prevent muscle mass loss when you're sick? You always hear about people loosing weight when theyre sick but I feel like a lot of it is muscle mass from not doing anything all day...
Jan 2 2015 8:57AM
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Olimar
Posts: 3535 - Karma: 4,074
Is there any way to prevent muscle mass loss when you're sick? You always hear about people loosing weight when theyre sick but I feel like a lot of it is muscle mass from not doing anything all day...
Jan 2 2015 8:57AM
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Wheat
Posts: 375 - Karma: 1,633
OlimarIs there any way to prevent muscle mass loss when you're sick? You always hear about people loosing weight when theyre sick but I feel like a lot of it is muscle mass from not doing anything all day...


Best thing you can do is keep your protein intake up
Jan 2 2015 11:55AM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,682
OlimarIs there any way to prevent muscle mass loss when you're sick? You always hear about people loosing weight when theyre sick but I feel like a lot of it is muscle mass from not doing anything all day...


not really.
Jan 2 2015 12:22PM
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miroz
Posts: 10333 - Karma: 3,947
saskskierI hate you guys. All I have to do is look at food and I gain weight. I've always been relatively active and athletic and eat halfway decent (although often too much), but I've always been overweight. My saving grace is I'm tall (6'4) and have broad shoulders, so I hide it relatively well.

My brother's getting married in July, so my goal is to drop some of my excess by then. I'm around 285 right now, but in a perfect world I would like to be a relatively lean 230-240.

I really don't much about counting calories or figuring out macros, but I think for now my goal will be cutting out most fast food and soda as well as easing up on evening snacking (my biggest downfall).

I'm also planning on being in the gym 3-4 days a week (depending on what training cycle I get on), but I completely understand that you can't out train a bad diet and that's where the weight loss comes from.

Any thoughts or suggestions?


I'm in the same boat man. I feel ya.
Jan 2 2015 12:48PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
OlimarIs there any way to prevent muscle mass loss when you're sick? You always hear about people loosing weight when theyre sick but I feel like a lot of it is muscle mass from not doing anything all day...


Force feed yourself, whether that is solid food or shakes. Keep the quality food coming in.
Jan 2 2015 1:08PM
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miroz
Posts: 10333 - Karma: 3,947
saskskierI hate you guys. All I have to do is look at food and I gain weight. I've always been relatively active and athletic and eat halfway decent (although often too much), but I've always been overweight. My saving grace is I'm tall (6'4) and have broad shoulders, so I hide it relatively well.

My brother's getting married in July, so my goal is to drop some of my excess by then. I'm around 285 right now, but in a perfect world I would like to be a relatively lean 230-240.

I really don't much about counting calories or figuring out macros, but I think for now my goal will be cutting out most fast food and soda as well as easing up on evening snacking (my biggest downfall).

I'm also planning on being in the gym 3-4 days a week (depending on what training cycle I get on), but I completely understand that you can't out train a bad diet and that's where the weight loss comes from.

Any thoughts or suggestions?


Let me add. I'm 6'0 and have typically hovered around 200-210. I was pretty active and ate well, although usually too much. I'm wide, but probably nowhere near as wide as you, and I think I've always had a little body dysmorphia, but nonetheless, I'd estimate my BF percentage going into this past semester was at least like 20%.

After averaging about 3-4 days a week at the gym and changing up my eating habits, I'd estimate that my BF is around 15% (post holiday 'bulk' lol). I went from about 205 to about 192 but gained a lot of strength.

The biggest changes I made in my diet came from buying all my food myself. I live alone, so I don't have to make any concessions about what comes into my apartment. I've found that the gateway to my mouth is my wallet. I have no self control once things (read: snacks and sweets) are in my kitchen, so I avoid that by just not buying them. I hope to one day reach the point where I can have them around and actually not them, but this is a decent start.

I also did something resembling an intermittent fasting, bc during the semester I don't eat breakfast, then a small snack around midday, a small lunch of mostly fruit and protein about two hours before the gym, then dinner immediately after. I try not to eat anything after that but usually fail.

I don't drink soda and rarely eat out (never fast food), so I have that going for me. If I were you I would focus on eliminating those things first. Pack your own lunches (leftovers are awesome) and make your own dinners.

Overall I think I just found a balance of food and life that worked for me. I learned to accept the "slightly hungry" feeling as one of progress and not one of need. I started saying no to little things. And, again, the biggest thing for me was that it all started at the grocery store with my wallet.
Jan 2 2015 3:14PM
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Lavieille
Posts: 814 - Karma: 318
I run around 3.5 miles everyday, I was running 6 miles daily but it ended up just being too much. I also do a 45 minute calisthenic exercise consisting of pull-ups, pushups, chair holds and other small ab toning sets. I'm trying to tone my muscles and not gain mass, it's worked out really well so far. I've been doing this regimen since the summer and I love it.
Jan 2 2015 3:19PM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,682
some times a little body fat is gonna happen.

I'm 5'10" hover between 190 and 200, can squat 315, and bench 225 for over 10 reps, and run 5 miles in under 35 minutes. I still have 15-20% BF. Even when I was running sub 5 min miles, I never got below 15% BF.

Dieting sucks.
Jan 2 2015 3:58PM
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Charlie_Kelly
Posts: 11953 - Karma: 12,296
Damn. Probably went to the gym 15 times all semester. Went from 165 lbs back to around 158 lbs. Didnt really lose mass but a lot of definition. Definitely a lot weaker. Gonna try to get back in there second semester but we'll see. Does suck to lose all the work I put in over the summer.
Jan 2 2015 4:24PM
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Bombogenesis
Posts: 1984 - Karma: 4,006
I can barely push my clutch in after a hard leg workout lol
Jan 2 2015 4:44PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
mirozI learned to accept the "slightly hungry" feeling as one of progress and not one of need.


All you chunkers, read this. Read it again. Meditate on this. Accept this. Profit from this. Its very basic, very true, and works very well.

Granite_StateDamn. Probably went to the gym 15 times all semester. Went from 165 lbs back to around 158 lbs. Didnt really lose mass but a lot of definition. Definitely a lot weaker. Gonna try to get back in there second semester but we'll see. Does suck to lose all the work I put in over the summer.


You will gain everything back super quick. Its quick and easy to gain old muscle and strength, much harder to create it. Not to mention you are still getting newbie gains. All you have to do is train, eat sleep, repeat. Do this relatively competently and you'll see sick quality progress.
Jan 2 2015 5:18PM
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Charlie_Kelly
Posts: 11953 - Karma: 12,296
californiagrownAll you chunkers, read this. Read it again. Meditate on this. Accept this. Profit from this. Its very basic, very true, and works very well.



You will gain everything back super quick. Its quick and easy to gain old muscle and strength, much harder to create it. Not to mention you are still getting newbie gains. All you have to do is train, eat sleep, repeat. Do this relatively competently and you'll see sick quality progress.


Word thanks homie. Wasn't sure if I was actually losing all my progress or not. I was def noticing my small gains over the summer (15 lbs) for sure. Unfortunately its been a combination of smoking waaaayy too much and not wanting to go and not eating enough (its expensive to bulk). I set a goal of 175 lbs for the end of last summer and came up short so if I can get to that by the beginning of summer this year I'll be happy.
Jan 2 2015 5:35PM
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Loco-Deer-Slayer
Posts: 1400 - Karma: 675
Bulking isn't expensive. I had a hard time with getting adequate calories during my non-winter/gym days, but what I did to help me was to track my calories (for 2-3 days). This helped me create a plan knowing what and how much to eat. It puts into perspective what you can cut out and what you should eat.

Eggs have a shit ton of calories, milk has a shit ton of calories and best of all both are cheap (nothing like chugging a half gallon of milk after school to meet macros). Eat avocados, olive oil, meat, nuts and if you really really need it you can supplement with a weight gainer shake.

Spark notes: eggs and milk are the way to go if you need lots of calories. Fill in the rest of your day to match your macros.

Damn I sound like a bro.
Jan 2 2015 7:42PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
Loco-Deer-SlayerBulking isn't expensive. I had a hard time with getting adequate calories during my non-winter/gym days, but what I did to help me was to track my calories (for 2-3 days). This helped me create a plan knowing what and how much to eat. It puts into perspective what you can cut out and what you should eat.

Eggs have a shit ton of calories, milk has a shit ton of calories and best of all both are cheap (nothing like chugging a half gallon of milk after school to meet macros). Eat avocados, olive oil, meat, nuts and if you really really need it you can supplement with a weight gainer shake.

Spark notes: eggs and milk are the way to go if you need lots of calories. Fill in the rest of your day to match your macros.

Damn I sound like a bro.


Meat is expensive, avocados are expensive not to mention god awful this time of year, and nuts(not legumes) are expensive. The cheapest bulk i found was cans of chili and baked potatoes. But then again, i physically would not be able to choke down enough eggs to make them a staple in my diet, i would just start gagging if i had more than probly 5 per day. As for a weight gainer shake, they are really, really handy. Just blend up some whey/banana/peanut butter. if you need more carbs, blend in some pre-blended oats. Other than that, just make sure nothing you eat is reduced fat or fat free.

I only did the chili and baked potato thing because i was scraping by in college. now that i can pay my bills without resorting to illegal methods of income, i like to add in fruits and veggies where ever i can. fiber is key to making you feel good and for nutrient absorption. just sautee up some kale in olive oil. Season it and basically turn it into kale potato chips. Its fast and gets in a lot of fiber.
Jan 2 2015 9:01PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
Loco-Deer-SlayerBulking isn't expensive. I had a hard time with getting adequate calories during my non-winter/gym days, but what I did to help me was to track my calories (for 2-3 days). This helped me create a plan knowing what and how much to eat. It puts into perspective what you can cut out and what you should eat.

Eggs have a shit ton of calories, milk has a shit ton of calories and best of all both are cheap (nothing like chugging a half gallon of milk after school to meet macros). Eat avocados, olive oil, meat, nuts and if you really really need it you can supplement with a weight gainer shake.

Spark notes: eggs and milk are the way to go if you need lots of calories. Fill in the rest of your day to match your macros.

Damn I sound like a bro.


To add on, milk is awesome. add a 16oz glass of whole milk to each and every meal you eat at home and you can get around 1000 more calories per this way.
Jan 2 2015 9:02PM
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ABalls
Posts: 2091 - Karma: 3,754
I have about 18-20 days on the season already and I love the results in my legs, my calves and quads really benefit. I'm not eating as healthy as I was in the summer and am back around 193-194, maybe it's just because of the holidays.
Jan 3 2015 8:59PM
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DayMan
Posts: 4702 - Karma: 8,727
californiagrownAnother issue is the discs in your back swell with fluid at night because they aren't being compressed. This makes them mor susceptible to tearing or rupture.

A good, thorough warmup like you said, can help mitigate this.


With all you guys are saying about warmups, I feel like I'm definitely not getting in a thorough enough warmup haha. I've usually just run for like 10 minutes, maybe stretch a little bit, and then go at it. I'm a total noob to all this stuff, so what would you guys recommend for a good warm up to really help mitigate all the possible ill effects of working out in the morning?
Jan 7 2015 6:19AM
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juicedrummer11
Posts: 1960 - Karma: 1,331
RedPandaWith all you guys are saying about warmups, I feel like I'm definitely not getting in a thorough enough warmup haha. I've usually just run for like 10 minutes, maybe stretch a little bit, and then go at it. I'm a total noob to all this stuff, so what would you guys recommend for a good warm up to really help mitigate all the possible ill effects of working out in the morning?


i usually run or do an inclined walk at a very brisk pace to get the blood flowing. then as far as the lifting is concerned, my first lifts are usually very light just to get that muscle warmed up more before tacking on the weight. like with squats ill do a set with just the bar to stretch out a bit and get more blood flowing then throw on a plate do one more and start my working sets after that
Jan 7 2015 7:37AM
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GoFistYourself69
Posts: 9 - Karma: -59
RedPandaWith all you guys are saying about warmups, I feel like I'm definitely not getting in a thorough enough warmup haha. I've usually just run for like 10 minutes, maybe stretch a little bit, and then go at it. I'm a total noob to all this stuff, so what would you guys recommend for a good warm up to really help mitigate all the possible ill effects of working out in the morning?


Do you fist yourself to stretch yourself out?
Jan 7 2015 8:09AM
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snowingsomewhere
Posts: 41 - Karma: 37
How does alcohol effect everyone's training? I get into a good grind and will train hard and eat well for 7 days straight or something and then end up going out drinking on a Saturday night and end up not training for 3 days, which after I find it so hard to get back into
Jan 7 2015 8:38AM
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Toasty.
Posts: 6195 - Karma: 2,278
snowingsomewhereHow does alcohol effect everyone's training? I get into a good grind and will train hard and eat well for 7 days straight or something and then end up going out drinking on a Saturday night and end up not training for 3 days, which after I find it so hard to get back into


Stop doing that then obviously if you want to take lifting seriously.. not that hard. Or learn to control your drinking habits.
Jan 7 2015 11:05AM
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louie.mirags
Posts: 6015 - Karma: 5,028
snowingsomewhereHow does alcohol effect everyone's training? I get into a good grind and will train hard and eat well for 7 days straight or something and then end up going out drinking on a Saturday night and end up not training for 3 days, which after I find it so hard to get back into


I try not to work out that day I drink so I can recover properly. Also, try not to hungover. No use in hurting yourself.
Jan 7 2015 11:48AM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
RedPandaWith all you guys are saying about warmups, I feel like I'm definitely not getting in a thorough enough warmup haha. I've usually just run for like 10 minutes, maybe stretch a little bit, and then go at it. I'm a total noob to all this stuff, so what would you guys recommend for a good warm up to really help mitigate all the possible ill effects of working out in the morning?


If you feel warmed up, you are warmed up. I'm 26 with years of sports wear and tear, multiple surgeries etc on me. I take about 5 mins on a bike, 5 mins to stretch, and then do 1/2 my abdominal work for the day.

When doing 3 work sets of squats or deadlifts I'll take 4-6 warmup sets depending how I feel.

Just listen to your body. You'll know when enough is enough and you're ready to go full throttle.
Jan 7 2015 1:04PM
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El.Guapo
Posts: 2139 - Karma: 3,173
Alright guys, I'm attempting a clean bulk for the first time in my life as my resolution.. wish me luck
Jan 8 2015 5:03PM
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louie.mirags
Posts: 6015 - Karma: 5,028
TheFapAlright guys, I'm attempting a clean bulk for the first time in my life as my resolution.. wish me luck


Kale shakes my man, kale shakes!
Jan 9 2015 9:25AM
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*N_Wist*
Posts: 422 - Karma: 78
Anyone use L Carnitine? I just ordered some from bodybuilding.com, was wondering if the results are any good.
Jan 9 2015 1:26PM
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messplay
Posts: 4483 - Karma: 1,065
*N_Wist*Anyone use L Carnitine? I just ordered some from bodybuilding.com, was wondering if the results are any good.


You need to stack it with CLA to achieve full benefits. Also, having a good diet and being moderately active will achieve the same thing.
Jan 9 2015 4:38PM
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messplay
Posts: 4483 - Karma: 1,065
Just made my 11th order on BB.

ON Hydrowhey (discontinuing soon, this is the best protein i've taken)
ON HydroBuilder
Micronized BCAA
CL OxiMega fish oil
APE Testosterone (did a bottle over summer and shouldve stayed with it)
Jan 9 2015 5:40PM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,682
How much are some of you spending on 'supliments?'

I buy the cheapest protein and creatine on Amazon prime and drink coffee.
No issues. Way cheaper than bodybuilding dot com or illpumpyouup dot com, let alone gnc
Jan 10 2015 12:03AM
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