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Everything We Do is Natural.

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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
Is human development any different than other forms of development caused by other animals?

A 5 story parking garage isn't considered to be "nature" because it was built by humans, but an anthill is "natural" even though it was built by hoards of tiny ants with instinctual engineering degrees.

Some have told me that the human psyche is what differentiates us from other animals. But that brings up another question: is our current state of mind a natural occurrence? How is the progression of the foundation of our social, emotional, and logical selves any different than the evolution of another species?

Somebody please help me organize my brain goober.
Jan 19 2009 7:30PM
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cclan
Posts: 742 - Karma: 19
wat
Jan 19 2009 7:31PM
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Ski..4..Life
Posts: 1347 - Karma: 97
haha just dont think about that kind stuff.

its like saying,

if the universe ends. what is at the end?
and if the universe never ends, how can that be? how can something go on for ever?


Jan 19 2009 7:34PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
give me one reason!
Jan 19 2009 7:35PM
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GhostfaceKillah
Posts: 3398 - Karma: 10
intriguing... I don't know if i want to break the cherry on this one or not but.... our ability to use reason is what makes us greater beings than animals....

your anthill and parking garage question is pretty intriguing tho, I'd like to see what other people have to say about it before i share my opinion on the subject.
Jan 19 2009 7:36PM
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Ski..4..Life
Posts: 1347 - Karma: 97
because it'll make your mind explode.

but do you have an answer to my universe question?
Jan 19 2009 7:36PM
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Gnarshred
Posts: 5670 - Karma: 18

Smoke a bowl and watch Nice Weather for Ducks by Lemon Jelly, all will make sense.

Jan 19 2009 7:36PM
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yellav
Posts: 10056 - Karma: 1,217
the same energy that grows the grass pushes the hair up from my head
Jan 19 2009 7:37PM
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inactive
Posts: 4772 - Karma: 97

42

Jan 19 2009 7:38PM
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ElbridgeGerry
Posts: 5902 - Karma: -27
I think it is because of the way we build the things. The advanced techniques and the months of planning we put into it, we are simply more advanced.
Jan 19 2009 7:38PM
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yellav
Posts: 10056 - Karma: 1,217
all things in the world are natural and share the same energy all around us
Jan 19 2009 7:40PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
you really think humans are greater beings than animals? And besides, is the development of our ability to use such reasoning skills over time not paralleled by the psychoevolution of other animals?

And no, I don't have an answer for your universe question. But what differentiates my question from yours is that the answer to my question lies in human perception, not astrophysical knowledge that is beyond human reach.
Jan 19 2009 7:40PM
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Edew19
Posts: 365 - Karma: 13
I don't think our minds are any different than any other animal's biological advantages like a cheetah's speed or a giraffe's neck.  Thats the way I like to think of it.  I never thought about the parking garage/ ant hill thing though that's interesting
Jan 19 2009 7:42PM
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Ski..4..Life
Posts: 1347 - Karma: 97
humans are in no way greater than animals, just think of how much more advanced most animals are compared to humans in all other aspects of life.

they can run faster, jump higher, live underwater, fly, navigate North and South using only their brains, animals are amazing and we will never understand them completely just like we will never understand ourselves completely.

the difference between humans and animals is that we strive to find out why we are different and they just strive to live their life.

Jan 19 2009 7:43PM
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GhostfaceKillah
Posts: 3398 - Karma: 10
yes i do. we have the capacity to build massive metropolises housing millions of people, while animals are still pushing dirt around building ant hills....
Jan 19 2009 7:44PM
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inactive
Posts: 4772 - Karma: 97
oh hell, you're dumb
Jan 19 2009 7:45PM
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DirtyMick
Posts: 1496 - Karma: 21
I recommend you read "Ishmael" by Dannel Quinn. 

If that doesn't satisfy your thirst for knowledge, read the follow-up "My Ishmael" by the same author.

If I could only read two books in my life, ever, it would be those two books.
Jan 19 2009 7:46PM
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Ski311
Posts: 595 - Karma: 8

is commiting suicide natural? ants don't go to the store, buy paint, and proceed to huff it untill they are dead.

Jan 19 2009 7:47PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
Is this mindset of ours considered to be a natural thing? If it comes from the Earth, it's natural, isn't it?
Jan 19 2009 7:48PM
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DirtyMick
Posts: 1496 - Karma: 21
I spelled it wrong. it's Daniel.

My bad.

Jan 19 2009 7:49PM
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.Asain-Skiier
Posts: 3708 - Karma: 977
ask the ns gods
Jan 19 2009 7:51PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
Bascially what I'm questioning is this narcissistic mindset that people seem to have that humans are some sort of wise or divine species. We are no wiser than counter mold. More influential, yes, but wiser?
Jan 19 2009 7:51PM
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Ski..4..Life
Posts: 1347 - Karma: 97
in no way do i think we are wiser then animals, we just think in a different way.
Jan 19 2009 7:55PM
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yellav
Posts: 10056 - Karma: 1,217
i know exactly exactly where you are coming from. to 99 percent of people we are just an entire plateau above anything else on the planet. trees, animals, everything. its quite sad the mentality will never change.

explain what you mean by influential?
Jan 19 2009 7:56PM
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inactive
Posts: 4772 - Karma: 97
yup yup
Jan 19 2009 7:56PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
Mold hasn't destroyed any rain forests, now has it?
Jan 19 2009 7:58PM
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GhostfaceKillah
Posts: 3398 - Karma: 10
why?

when my hamburger tries to eat me I will think twice about my OPINION that we are greater beings than all other species (for better of for worse)
Jan 19 2009 7:59PM
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GhostfaceKillah
Posts: 3398 - Karma: 10
I do try to entertain both sides of the story. I understand that the earth and its systems are a very intense, highly delicate and interwoven (see Sacred Balance by David Suzuki), but to say that we are living within this system is just not true. To think that we can even try to live within this system is a pipe dream.
Jan 19 2009 8:04PM
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Ski311
Posts: 595 - Karma: 8

think about it this way

Jan 19 2009 8:05PM
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DirtyMick
Posts: 1496 - Karma: 21
Yes.

They will change your view of the world, humans, animals and a lot of other things.

Nuttella (Tanaka I believe?), I seriously suggest you read these books, and don't bother asking such questions on NS, but rather his website:http://www.ishmael.org/welcome.cfm

It may not be EXACTLY what you are discussing, but it's pretty damn close.
Jan 19 2009 8:08PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
So domination is what makes a species better?
Jan 19 2009 8:10PM
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yellav
Posts: 10056 - Karma: 1,217
*99 percent of people think we are
Jan 19 2009 8:12PM
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DirtyMick
Posts: 1496 - Karma: 21
Hahah. wow.

You're right we're not living in that system...don't you think there's something wrong with that?

and YES we USED to live within the system you're talking of, until our culture destroyed it.
Jan 19 2009 8:13PM
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Malcolm
Posts: 15949 - Karma: 9,431
word.
Jan 19 2009 8:14PM
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Jay31
Posts: 796 - Karma: 11
Your question about the ant-eater and parking garage is very interesting, i've never looked at it in that light before.  Most people on here will say its the complexity, and that we are constructing our own materials from other materials that differentiates the two structures.  But it is still based on our mental evolution that we are able to do this.

The one way we would be able to see if this is a true differentiating factor is if there are any species on this planet that can construct substances from combining other substances together (in the same vain that we construct concrete and different alloys)


Jan 19 2009 8:15PM
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yellav
Posts: 10056 - Karma: 1,217
this is true but don't be so quick to forget the destructive power of other species, if not you're contradicting your entire point.

but yes we are assholes
Jan 19 2009 8:15PM
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Soundgarden
Posts: 164 - Karma: 19
who cares. sounds like a bunch of gobbly goop crap to me.
Jan 19 2009 8:16PM
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GhostfaceKillah
Posts: 3398 - Karma: 10
according to websters... yes. But it seems a little odd to try and use definitions derived from human knowledge to explain things that go beyond our comprehension.
Jan 19 2009 8:16PM
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doublexl
Posts: 8407 - Karma: 26
i really do think of this all the time. like we are just a larger scale anthill. and all other species do the same thing in some form, but ours are more advanced (if thats the right word) because were more capable.
Jan 19 2009 8:17PM
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DirtyMick
Posts: 1496 - Karma: 21
What distructive power? what species are you speaking of?
Jan 19 2009 8:18PM
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baethoven
Posts: 4953 - Karma: 332
you should probably drop a tab of acid too.
Jan 19 2009 8:18PM
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GhostfaceKillah
Posts: 3398 - Karma: 10
the main difference is that all animals live within the means of their ecosystems, while we define our own (i.e. a town)
Jan 19 2009 8:19PM
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Jay31
Posts: 796 - Karma: 11
good point, just look at the destruction that a foreign species can have on an ecosystem when it is introduced
Jan 19 2009 8:20PM
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yellav
Posts: 10056 - Karma: 1,217
sooooo cheetahs, lions, sharks, leopards, panthers, and any other carnivore capable of killing humans are the supreme beings of this planet by your logic
Jan 19 2009 8:20PM
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TheButterHashira
Posts: 9691 - Karma: 1,702
The birds nest and the asbestos infested victorian home are in principle the same. I really think that most human actions are really just biological reactions like humans have. Most of these are based on the need for food, sex, or survival. Maybe humans have overcome this but I doubt it.

“I do not at all believe in human freedom in the philosophical sense. Everybody acts not only under external compulsion but also in accordance with inner neccessity.” - Albert Einstein

He may not be a fucking biologist but he was a great thinker so I think his opinion is valid.
Jan 19 2009 8:22PM
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GhostfaceKillah
Posts: 3398 - Karma: 10
u got me....

it seems a little redundant to try and form any sort of valid argument in NSG, I'll save that for my school work lol.
Jan 19 2009 8:24PM
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Ski311
Posts: 595 - Karma: 8
http://www.darwinawards.com/
Jan 19 2009 8:25PM
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Ski311
Posts: 595 - Karma: 8
http://www.darwinawards.com/
Jan 19 2009 8:26PM
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EastScratchSkier
Posts: 186 - Karma: 16
FINALLY, someone on the same page as me. i feel exactly ythe same way, people always talk about unnatural processes and shit like that, but we are natural beings, and by the transitive property, isnt anything we do or make natural?

on a side note, another thing i think about is how the universe is neverending. i cant get it through my head. i try to picture it, but i always end up seeing one big planet, its really weird to think about
Jan 19 2009 8:26PM
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GhostfaceKillah
Posts: 3398 - Karma: 10
so trannys are natural?
Jan 19 2009 8:27PM
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Ski311
Posts: 595 - Karma: 8

Click for larger image

Jan 19 2009 8:28PM
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