Jesus Christ MSP

I think it looks sick. they should do 2 vids though a all prak and trick style vid and a big mtn. vid.

actually no kidding.


Alright, seriously.  I've taken it way too far with my hate on this.  Alright, I still wont support MSP.  I don't understand the whole thing with the phone messages with winter.  I wont talk about that anymore.  I think gaffney maybe right that a lot of our hate can be unfounded. 

Right now, I just dont like the commentary, the title, and some of the things msp did before.  The teaser is sick regardless.  Their line up of skiers is extraordinary.

I have been way too hard on msp and it has taken me too long to realize this.  My apologies to msp and gaffney and to all of yall.

Wow, if that's not said in jest, I'm pretty impressed. I think a lot of people think MSP is way bigger than they are. Like they are rolling in wealth. It's not the case. Matchstick undoubtedly puts more money into their films than any ski company out there. Then people argue that the results should be better. If we were making a 90% urban/park movie, you should expect a hell of a lot more. But getting out of your car and setting up trippy dolly moves and cable cams on flat ground with all the action happening in a 75' area is cake compared to trying to do similar things in bigger mountains. Lighting is easy on your driveway, lighting bigger mountains is not an option. It just so happens that money MSP focuses more on bigger terrain. And in making those kind of images come to life takes 50x the amount of money than shooting urban/park stuff.

Anyway, the MSP team? They're a crew who love skiing. Why else would they keep slaving away at making ski movies? There's a lot more money out there in other means of film/tv production. Maybe there have been business tactics used by MSP that seemed questionable to others. But way too much spewed on NS has been untrue and just fueled more hate.

Its gotten to a ridiculous point where trying to get some understanding is like talking to a brick wall that's pissed off. Or like telling a Jehova's witness you don't believe in God.

For those who don't like MSP movies, obviously they're not made for you. People have different tastes. I've got different tastes. I like our movies. I really enjoy a lot of other people's ski and snowboard flicks. I thought Push was pretty damn good and had a lot of new flavor--not enormously different--but definitely a lot of pieces that had stepped in another direction. I wasn't super stoked with the finish product of Hit List. I can admit it.

But people here spray that we monopolize and corner skiers into our camp through sponsorships and whatever. Wrong. TJ and Jon came to us this year and said they wanted to shoot with us because they valued how we shot. You're sick and tired of the slow-motion sunset heli shots. Have you seen any better, sicker booter shots? Have you seen any shots that show a skier's style, grab and stomp any better than those? I like shots at real speed, too. But skiers can get away with flaws in real speed shots. A little flap here, maybe a one finger grab there...In those slow heli shots everyone bitches about, the skiers can't get away with jack. So you can only see perfection in the air, and if you don't appreciate that (coupled with the sick light of a lucky sunset), well, there's not much we can do for you. I think when they get older, TJ and Jon are going to look back on those shots and be stoked to be able to say, "That was me. Damn I was good." That's why they are with MSP--not too make them good, but to accurately show how truly good they are.

As for not changing things up from year to year, I think we had a lot of changes last year in Push, and I listed them in another thread and don't feel like doing it again here. But again, we're trying to convince a brick wall. But if the haters would just step back and look at the bigger picture, no film companies drastically change they're formula from year to year. Companies have a style, just like skier do. Tell Pollard to ski differently next year.

Was LSS really ALL that different from Berman's previous 2 or 3 flicks? No, it was just better. Better shooting, better camera moves, better editing, a few different park features, and different transitions in between skier segments. Personally, I thought LSS was really well done and I told Josh so. But in the end, the movie is essentially a string of skier segments (and a dope Japan seg) with updated tricks and locations. Same as MSP . Same as any Mack Dawg, PBP, Absinthe, whoever's movie. It's a style. You just try to do it better with each year.

So, you don't like the style, oh well. Hopefully there are other movies to suit your perspective. It doesn't mean MSP's approach sucks. There are plenty of people who really enjoy our flicks and use them to get stoked to ski, which is really the whole intent to begin with. How can you tell someone they are wrong about what they like? I have no idea, but people here definitely try.

Finally, a point I don't think anyone recognizes: the bigger you get, the tougher it is. It seems like it should be the opposite, but it isn't. There's more organization, more expenses, more demanded, more schedules to contend with, a ton more pressure. It's so much easier to have a crew of five and go shred and shoot at your local hill or seek out jibs whenever you want.

I'm sorry people fail to appreciate what it takes to make these films. All we're trying to do is fire people up, and all some want to do is shoot that stoke right out of the sky.

Everybody should read this^

you make alot of good points and i completely agree with alot of the hate on you guys is single-minded and nonsensical. but i would like to politely rebut.

however, were it not for the brick wall of hate would you not have implemented some of the changes in your movies? would your trailer have been almost 50-50 big mountain/newschool?


and it seems almost like you're using the "bigness" of your company as an excuse, while almost going out of your way to be formulaic.

-don't use a heli/sunset shot next year, just don't.
-use helmetcam in big mountains/AK....it helps, ALOT, that's really not a hard conclusion.
-yes use slowmo, but ramp up to it. use it as a highlighter not as a theme for the movie. mayhaps use a repeated clip with parts slowmoed, i don't know maybe craetively think up another solution.

if its so hard to change as a big company how did tgr do it pretty drastically this year.

1-shooting with a complete unknown, and then using him as the opening scene ( do this instead of importing the proven newschool athlete each year (sammy, tj etc)).
2-moving from rider to location oriented segements.
3-use a completely different, albeit just-copied-from-snoboarding editing style.
4-bringing the olenicks into AK, pretty big gamble.


and the rumors don't help either.

That's the most important thing right there.  I think everything in this thread comes down to that.

We are all skiers.  They are just ski movies.  We all love the same stuff.  There are more important things to argue about than what has been discussed in this thread.

Btw, no jest in my previous thread.  Im totally serious.  I and others need to stop being so critical and hateful, and just let people make their movies.  Sorry bout that.

Thanks for some understanding, and you bring up valid points. We listen. And sometimes we already know our faults. I've been complaining about too much slow mo for a few years now. I watched Mike Douglas' segment from Yearbook recently and there might have been one shot shot at real speed, and I had already ramped a couple to make them more real speed. The footage was good, the skiing was good, the song was good, and the pace was agonizing. Seven Sunny Days will still have slow-mo shots, but I guarantee there will be far less.

I didn't mean to make the "bigness" of the company sound like an excuse. I had written so much by that point and I was tired and didn't want to try to explain that any further. I realized later it might come off the wrong way. I guess I wanted to say that it gets a hell of a lot more complicated. It shouldn't be an excuse, however. It's just serious work getting around all the obstacles a big company faces.

As far as the amount of freestyle in the trailer, there are two reasons: 1) that's where the most progression is happening every year (you can only go so big and fast on big peaks--it gets pushed, but the standout progression isn't there...although Hoji's stomps this year were ridiculous) and 2) it's a consequence of having only seven sunny days on our big trips. Freestyle shooting is pretty damn easy compared to the sufferfest of getting the highest level big mountain shots. Believe me. It doesn't take four weeks and the agonizing grind of thousands of dollars going out the window each day as you sit and watch your private heli get rained on for days straight to get even the sickest rail/pipe/booter shot.

On your TGR points
1) Ian MacIntosh may have been new in most people's eyes, but he had been destroying big mtn comps for a while and was already pegged as the next big thing
2) Every year we have at least a couple location segments (Push had Japan/China, Terrace,BC, Norway and Whistler), and we're consistently moving more in that direction
3) I think part of our style is to let the skiing do the talking without over-editing, although I think the number of our standard skier segments overshadows the funkier editing when we do it
4) We're always bringing freestyle guys to bigger mountains without truly knowing their abilities (which can be dangerous). I could go back as far as Sick Sense with J.P., Vinny Dorion and JF Cusson when they were standing at the heli pad, looking at their avalanche beacons and thinking, "What de hell. I know not what to do with this." Then it was guys like Tanner and Raps, then there's Abma in Yearbook (look how that turned out), Bushfield... None of those guys had any big backcountry experience. Yes, it's a gamble, and we've taken it.

Finally, the issue raised elsewhere about ski companies never using cable cams. I could cite at least five times MSP has used cable cams, from pipe to rails to booters, all before cable cams were considered the thing to do to get this whole new sick angle. We haven't used them in a couple of years, and when we do again, people will just accuse us of copying others. They offer a great angle, they are a pain in the ass to set up (especially in the backcountry), they have a low ratio of usable shots, and soon enough people are going to complain about too many of those, too.

Anyway, thanks for having some understanding, or at least toning down the aggressiveness a little. I'm not trying to convert anyone, I just want some level of civility. Again, I've written way too much, and I'll be impressed if anyone reads this far or my prior novel post. I know Sammy probably wouldn't make it past two paragraphs.

I'm still impressed JD May watched a movie he hated so much 100 times. Ever seen the movie Bad Leiutenant? I thought that movie sucked, and you wouldn't catch me sitting down to watch it even once more, not to mention 100 more times.

How could you hate Bad Leiutenant? Classic.

is this what you think skiing is all about, though?

holding the grab for the entire rotation!? "(forced) style"!? stomping the shit out of it!?

i see.

let me refer you to christopher honeywell. watch his airs at the end of this segment and tell me you didn't see real speed perfection and a style you've never come close to offering with your films.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTMEXGWRyf0

i really hope your are kidding

I can't see a thing your talking about. Maybe I'm blind. Nothing worse than watching rich white kids throwing hand signs.

i can tell, fuck.


i'll quote myself on this one.

"watch his airs at the end of this segment"

i guess it just doesn't compare to steve winter's slow motion bc booter perfection, though.

he's hitting maybe a 40 foot kicker max, throwing sick switch cork 7s, but you cannot compare it to TJ or Sammy hitting a 60-70ft kicker doing double nose 7's.

i wouldn't ever compare it to double nose grabs on seventy footers. that's not what i'm trying to convey.

i just don't understand the reasoning of "hey, let's make this shot ten times slower because it is what i see as perfection".

wouldn't that be even more of a reason to keep it in real time? like, if your athletes are so talented and hard working that they can do air stuff without flailing and so on to the least bit, it seems to me like the shot would be really enjoyable and even more incredible at regular speed.

the segment i posted was an example of this.

that segment you posted was not really that enjoyable at all it appeared t be just a bunch of clips of skiing cut after the trick and thrown together. and I am guesing that if we zoomed n and slowed it down a little we could find a lot of faults with the skiing

i like the shots they do they look awesome, but what i dont like is that they seriously dont change it at all. other companies also have a style that they follow, and alot of their shots look similar, but atleast they change around alot. msp's stay almost the exact same. and to make it even worse they have to make it slow motion, add in wooshing sounds, stop the music etc. they try to make it look like the most epic shot ever when its not even close.
the whole movie is that way, they try to make it sooooo epic.

I agree with the kid before me who said you keep bringing your friend into your comments. "let me refer you to christopher honeywell" Sure hes good, how are the shots at the end of that section perfection, there good, but not perfect.

Also, I enjoyed that MSP teaser. I thought the skiing was cool, wish there was no slow-mo. But I thought for the most part the shots were all wicked sick, especially a select few of them.

fatbastard why don't you stop trying to defend it and use your influence along with this positive criticism to make CHANGE. CHANGE is good and people who have been around this scene know that MSP puts the same stuff year after year. yes the skiing gets better every year but you need some originality. everyone is entitled to their opinion and i personally believe that with the level of skiing you guys are working with you should be putting together mind blowing edits. mind blowing edits are made with punch and uniqueness and MSP seems to be bringing less and less of that every year

"people who have been around this scene know." What do you know? What scene are you talking about? Man I wish I as cool as you so I could fit in to your big scene. You make this topic sound so serious. Look at what your bitching about man. Silly little ski movies that are there to look at and get stoked. If you don't like it don't watch it.

enough of the crap about MSP if you dont like it then dont watch it. But i think its sick!

this is very well worth reading because it is how it. I usually dont spend the time to read shit, but read ths

this is very well worth reading because it is how it. I usually dont spend the time to read shit, but read ths

What is the song they use in the trailer?

Wolf Like Me by TV On The Radio

that what pisses me off the most. They shoot the sickest footage and then waste it by making a horriblbly edited, half-assed film every year.

There's nothing wrong with the editing, they're doing the footage and the skiers the justice they deserve, not having to rely on lots of fancy editing.

Hey, they found a formula that works for them and makes them money. If they changed they would ruin their customer base. They are marketing to people who don't ski park every day, they are making the movie for those in Texas and those over 21 years of age. If the movies really were that shitty then the sponsors would pull their funding. I mean don't get me wrong, I have hated every single MSP movie, including the whole Ski Movie series because it was the same shit, but they must be doing something right.

Hey, they found a formula that works for them and makes them money. If they changed they would ruin their customer base. They are marketing to people who don't ski park every day, they are making the movie for those in Texas and those over 21 years of age. If the movies really were that shitty then the sponsors would pull their funding. I mean don't get me wrong, I have hated every single MSP movie, including the whole Ski Movie series because it was the same shit, but they must be doing something right.

I dont know, its just a personal thing. I usually dont like people talking, I dont simple fades, blah blah. I like flash frames, crazy fucked up angles, chaotic yet slo mo at the same time. Its possible, just really hard to do.

On the other hand, I like the slow approach as well. it shows the chillness of skiing. Take the Iceland segment from Red Tape for example. I LOVED that segment. It was a perfect demonstration of what it was like to be there; it showed PLENTY of lifestyles and lots of skiing, and not a single word was spoken.


what comes down to, is that I prefer to let the image speak for itself instead of some athlete.


I realize MSP doesnt deserve hate just because I dont like their movies. In fact I had more respect for MSP before they started doing all this fancy camerawork, because it seemed that their editing matched their filming. But now that they have some mind blowing cinematography, the editing stays the same as it was 5 years ago. It seems they havent progressed at all. I just expect with the type of filming they do, they could make a revolutionary film. Bigger than Idea, bigger than TBC, bigger than anything done before...


yet they don't.

push was easy the best movie of the year. and also their movies make way more than any other companies so why would they change

I'm pretty bummed. I didn't like a single movie this year. It was small parts from various movies. I should take Wiley Miller's segment from [Photo]Play, Pollard's self edit, and JPs tree skiing edit and put them on one disk. aaaaah

get off your high horse. 

Colby is in it so it's going to be sick.

well here we officially have the harshest MSP insult so far on this site. ouch.




since we're all making suggestions to MSP though, i'll make a couple myself.

-less monologue. how many different ways can you say skiing dope lines in AK is "epic"? less meaningless jabbing, more meaningful skiing

-no retarded ass mainstream rap song (ala tanner in yearbook or sammy in push - i can't decide which one makes me cringe harder). and while i'm on the subject, better soundtracks in general. not every single person watching the movie is over 40.

-limit slo-mo shots to one per segment, two at very most. slo-mo should be an effect, not a standard.

-more/better editing. you've obviously got the most money and the best cinematography, but most of the movies seem almost unedited compared to any other ski/board flick out there. i know editing mostly big mountain stuff doesn't work too well, but the best cinematography shouldn't be accompanied by the weakest editing.


i enjoy watching MSP movies once usually, but never more than that. all their riders are sick, and so are all their filmers, it's just the "suits" that get on my nerves.

I thought it was sick

They don't though. Warren Miller does that. I'd say MSP is far more connected to a true skiing base than it is "mainstream" still. You could be more on point with the over 21 demographic...basically the people who don't have an attention span for endless shots of kids skiing rails & park.

What Matchstick plays to more so- and it is a big reason reason for their success, is their premiere tour. It is the biggest in skiing (aside from Warren Miller). And it is the best way to have the MOST people see a ski movie. Their premieres are practically an institution. (Just)about everybody (& all ages) sees an MSP movie during the fall premiere season, and typically their films play VERY well at premieres. People get stoked. So even if their dvds don't click with our "newschool" viewing tastes, the movies are still a huge success- as well as the athletes that make a living of of being in their films. Not to mention that their movies are also respected by people that appreciate the type of skiing that MSP documents.

for the "more/better editing" editing is a style too, for me if i dont notice it, its probably good. Editing is making art, its not what can i add, its what more can i take away until whats left conveys your vision. Simple editing with the "best cinematography" lets the pictures do the talking, not the inferno suite. btw. i thought Absinthes More was the best edited film last year.

That movie looks like it's going to be fucking awesome.

I like MSP films. I have everything from Ski Movie 1 up to Push/Pull. Ski Movie 3 is probably my favourite one (double song segment for Seth, so amazing). I just watched Push last night in fact. The only things I don't like about MSP films recently are:

1) Music - the soundtracks usually only have one or two tracks I like. It feels like a lot of cheesy late 90's rapmetal type stuff. The soundtracks for SM3 and Focused seemed better. MDP always have amazing soundtracks (good mix of indie rock, hiphop, electronic, punk).

2) Voiceovers - as others have said, way too many. It's cool to have voiceovers about a specific thing, maybe something happened on a trip, or a big fall, but most of them are generic and sound forced. See MDP, Absinthe and TBC for how much voiceovers to use.

Why don't the voice overs include what the athletes really think? "Wow, I worked this hard for a mediocre section? At least they paid for my heli time and got my name out more to the general public."

The funny thing about all the bitching, the only real competition in terms of quality of shots/skiing is TGR and PBP. Level 1/Plehouse/am films are entertaining but nowhere near the same level of skiing talent and quality shots. So for all the whiners, what movies/prodn cos do you think are better?

level one and plehouse both have riders that are as good as and better than msp riders, and their cinematography is also just as good. they just dont have to money to get heli's and do follow cams with them all the time to get those really close up shots. and i think level 1 and plehouse get more creative angles and the shots flow toghether alot better. and you dont hear people bitching about their shots for a reason.

i agree 100%. same with your other comment. did you check pep's self edit from ski porn (his main seg was BUTCHERED)?

Fuck MSP, Fuck them up their stupid asses

and who the fuck are you big shot? i was just saying that rather than trying to act like they're perfect and mask their shortcomings they should realize that they need a little change once in a while. im still buying the movie because the skiing looks rad. people who have never seen an MSP movie will watch it and be stoked, but some will know that they need to mix it up a little thats all. im not making a big deal of anything im just backin my boy because he makes valid points.

So is that why you ripped off the title and made it your little tag line?

Theres no disputing the skiing looks to be of this world, but I did get the feeling it is going to be the same format as the last four msp films i have bought. I will still buy it but I think its time they repackage the amazing skiing in a different way. However buggered if I know how to film and edit it differently.
Also Is it me or is the HJOR becoming a living legend?

editing isnt just throwing in as many effects and cool transitions as you can. for me at least, its the process of taking all the seemingly random footage, and combining it as to make an interesting piece. so with that in mind, your translation of an interesting piece could be an AE or Motion party, or it could be to put it together to tell a story through the raw shots. personally i like the story telling way more, and your obviously very good at the AE way. just different flavors....