I’m just curious on what peoples thoughts are on this and kinda wanna see ahall throw a future spin in the womens x games
Mar 19 2022 9:59PM
Mar 19 2022 10:05PM
Mar 19 2022 10:33PM
Mar 20 2022 1:19AM
Mar 20 2022 1:40AM
Kris Jenner or whatever the hell his/her name is competed as a man despite being a woman. That’s being brave/strong, if you’re biologically a man but have to compete against women, that’s chickenshit.
at some point we need to stop laying out the ivory carpet for them and lay some ground rules. I dont give a shit if 20% of kids these days wanna be gay, and 5% want to change sexes. Just stay in your fucking lane when it comes to competition—FACK!!!
ridiculous thing to even have to debate, this shits spinning out of control
Mar 20 2022 2:24AM
Mar 20 2022 3:45AM
Mar 20 2022 7:40AM
Track and field ncaa d2 had a man win events he entered as a women. NCAA swimming a man Lea Thomas (I think) just beat women and set an ncaa womens record I think despite being a biological man. CT HS track and field dealt with it a few years ago and TX HS wresleting I think. Its definitely becoming way more common unfortunately.
NeonGreenSharpieWhich sports?
Mar 20 2022 8:24AM
dshilandTrack and field ncaa d2 had a man win events he entered as a women. NCAA swimming a man Lea Thomas (I think) just beat women and set an ncaa womens record I think despite being a biological man. CT HS track and field dealt with it a few years ago and TX HS wresleting I think. Its definitely becoming way more common unfortunately.
Yes I know it is problematic, but no one's changing sex to win.
Mar 20 2022 9:52AM
Mar 20 2022 10:20AM
Imo not even just a dick. Males are just biologically bigger and stronger then women. You take a 5'6 135 dude and match him up with a chick the same size and I bet he wins most athletic type contests 9/10 times. I agree 100% its extremely unfair to women
Icant_kfedIt’s still completely unfair for the actual women who trained just to get absolutely blown out by someone with a dick
Mar 20 2022 11:17AM
A meh take in the Ahmet sea of stupidity.
Probably the best thing for all parties involved would be to have a separate league, and/or much more invasive testing and metrics to consider who can compete in what league.
Unfortunately, that is an idealistic solution, because as a minority group trans individuals take up an incredibly small part of the population. So in high schools, colleges, and professional sports, there is no incentive to invest in a separate league for the people with the money.
So now you run into issues where teens or older people who really do feel like they are stuck in the wrong body just are not allowed to compete in sports unless you go to a school or college that has a separate league...which is approximately none of them.
The interesting thing about this is that I never see people complain about women who transition to men competing, just men transitioning to women.
This could become a problem in the future, but I don't think it is one right now. You can bring up a handful of examples but when you consider all of the high-level high school, college, or even professional games or competitions that happen every year....I'd imagine that a male-to-female transperson winning them due to an unfair advantage is probably much much less than 1%.
Plenty of more common unfair shit happening. People messing around/lying about their age, private high schools having the ability to recruit whereas public schools do not, certain schools having way more funding than others, school districts messing around with their borders so they can stay in a more desirable division, 17 year running backs on gear etc. etc.
I'd wager that these things are much more common and have a much more detrimental effect on sports in the aggregate.
Mar 20 2022 11:28AM
LonelyA meh take in the Ahmet sea of stupidity.Probably the best thing for all parties involved would be to have a separate league, and/or much more invasive testing and metrics to consider who can compete in what league.
Unfortunately, that is an idealistic solution, because as a minority group trans individuals take up an incredibly small part of the population. So in high schools, colleges, and professional sports, there is no incentive to invest in a separate league for the people with the money.
So now you run into issues where teens or older people who really do feel like they are stuck in the wrong body just are not allowed to compete in sports unless you go to a school or college that has a separate league...which is approximately none of them.
The interesting thing about this is that I never see people complain about women who transition to men competing, just men transitioning to women.
This could become a problem in the future, but I don't think it is one right now. You can bring up a handful of examples but when you consider all of the high-level high school, college, or even professional games or competitions that happen every year....I'd imagine that a male-to-female transperson winning them due to an unfair advantage is probably much much less than 1%.
Plenty of more common unfair shit happening. People messing around/lying about their age, private high schools having the ability to recruit whereas public schools do not, certain schools having way more funding than others, school districts messing around with their borders so they can stay in a more desirable division, 17 year running backs on gear etc. etc.
I'd wager that these things are much more common and have a much more detrimental effect on sports in the aggregate.
You bring up a lot of good points but females becoming men don’t have the biological advantages that someone who has been a man his whole life has been.
Mar 20 2022 11:59AM
Icant_kfedYou bring up a lot of good points but females becoming men don’t have the biological advantages that someone who has been a man his whole life has been.
Yeah, I understand that, just pointing out that banning all transpeople from competition because men->women have a big advantage would unfairly hurt women who have transitioned to men that don't have the same advantage.
Female to male get punished for the actions of male to female
Mar 20 2022 12:04PM
LonelyYeah, I understand that, just pointing out that banning all transpeople from competition because men->women have a big advantage would unfairly hurt women who have transitioned to men that don't have the same advantage.Female to male get punished for the actions of male to female
Yeah, let us know when a trans man defeats multiple Olympians and sets records first year out. That's the difference, you blunt idiot.
Mar 20 2022 5:25PM
This just seems like an attempt to put the trans athlete debate in a skiing context, when it is really a non-issue. I do not know a single trans freestyle skier. I think we should always be working towards greater inclusivity in skiing, so fear mongering about a hypothetical problem does more harm than good IMO. Unless trans women suddenly start dominating the podium, there's no real reason to bring this up
Mar 20 2022 5:52PM
BorchmoreThis just seems like an attempt to put the trans athlete debate in a skiing context, when it is really a non-issue. I do not know a single trans freestyle skier. I think we should always be working towards greater inclusivity in skiing, so fear mongering about a hypothetical problem does more harm than good IMO. Unless trans women suddenly start dominating the podium, there's no real reason to bring this up
Because it’s far easier for them just to destroy women in a RELATIVELY simpler sport like swimming or track, as we’ve seen happen recently. The tricks women throw in comp are still hard af to learn and execute.
Mar 21 2022 10:25AM
The swimmer didn’t set an NCAA record, she happened to win the championship this season. Her winning time is 9 seconds slower than the woman’s world record in that distance.
Trans-women have been able to compete in NCAA events for 30 years and this is the one and only time a trans-athlete has won a championship. Once in 30 years. Hardly ‘domination’ people rage about.
In World Cup DH mountain biking there have been several trans-women athletes. None have won a single event. The top women routinely beat them by large margins.
Someone is always going to win an event. People will always put down dominant performances. Trans-women are hardly dominating on any type of scale. Additionally there has been numerous peer-reviewed research studies done that show after they undergo the full series of hormone treatments, that they retain no significant competitive advantage.
dshilandTrack and field ncaa d2 had a man win events he entered as a women. NCAA swimming a man Lea Thomas (I think) just beat women and set an ncaa womens record I think despite being a biological man. CT HS track and field dealt with it a few years ago and TX HS wresleting I think. Its definitely becoming way more common unfortunately.
Mar 21 2022 11:06AM
Way*MoIn World Cup DH mountain biking there have been several trans-women athletes. None have won a single event. The top women routinely beat them by large margins.
You mean Kate Weatherly who swept the NZ DH national series and won national champs her first year competing against women? The next season she placed 2nd at the Crankworx Rotorua DH and nothing but top 10 finishes, two of which were podiums in her first year racing World Cup Elite DH?
Yeah bro, that like happens all the time in DH, completely normal.
Mar 21 2022 11:27AM
NZ nationals is not WC racing. A fourth or fifth place while technically a podium is not winning. She didn’t do anything last years when the top dogs were back.
Gwin had a pretty meteoric rise, or are we purposely ignoring that?
What about Deprala almost winning the overall his first season in elites even with missing finals in a race.
Nice cherry picking bruh
skiermanYou mean Kate Weatherly who swept the NZ DH national series and won national champs her first year competing against women? The next season she placed 2nd at the Crankworx Rotorua DH and nothing but top 10 finishes, two of which were podiums in her first year racing World Cup Elite DH?Yeah bro, that like happens all the time in DH, completely normal.
Mar 21 2022 11:38AM
Way*MoNZ nationals is not WC racing. A fourth or fifth place while technically a podium is not winning. She didn’t do anything last years when the top dogs were back.Gwin had a pretty meteoric rise, or are we purposely ignoring that?
What about Deprala almost winning the overall his first season in elites even with missing finals in a race.
Nice cherry picking bruh
Gwin and Deprala didn't go from finishing last to snagging podiums against the world's fastest after changing their genders.
You're a fucking idiot.
Mar 21 2022 11:41AM
You know as well as I do finishing fifth in the womens field during the Covid season while some of the fastest racers were hurt isn’t ‘domination’.
And the failure to back those podiums up the following year proves it.
you just want to be an ignorant dick. but I know how on brand that is for you.
skiermanGwin and Deprala didn't go from finishing last to snagging podiums against the world's fastest after changing their genders.You're a fucking idiot.
Mar 21 2022 12:02PM
Like some others have pointed out, its not a huge issue except for right wingers getting triggered and blowing shit out of proportion because they found a new easy marginalized group to attack. The gut reaction is that men competing against women isn't fair which immediately frames the whole discussion as these aren't "real" women which is transphobic by nature. A brief google shows that up to a year after hormone treatment that trans women retain some competitive advantage showing a bit of validity to the argument. However, its hard to quantify without many studies and there are clearly diminishing returns.
I think what is missing from this whole conversation in general is how your genetics give athletes their biggest competitive advantages anyway. Michael Phelps has double jointed ankles and a freak wingspan which give him a huge advantage but doesn't mean we have to put him into another category. Likewise, some women have naturally higher testosterone than others but we don't even know if testosterone is the main indicator of athletic prowess. Realistically, to be an elite athlete relies on freakish genetics, hard work and mentality, and it helps a ton to have some amount of privilege to be able to singularly on your sport (especially with niche ones).
I don't see it as a huge issue at the top level considering how few trans people there are, and so why make it a huge issue across the board? Sports can be the best impact for someone's mental health and deciding a group of people with the highest suicide rates can't do them because it would be "unfair" seems cruel to me.
Mar 21 2022 12:07PM
We ABSOLUTELY do know that testosterone levels and athletic abilities directly correlate with one another.
AndrewGravesSVLike some others have pointed out, its not a huge issue except for right wingers getting triggered and blowing shit out of proportion because they found a new easy marginalized group to attack. The gut reaction is that men competing against women isn't fair which immediately frames the whole discussion as these aren't "real" women which is transphobic by nature. A brief google shows that up to a year after hormone treatment that trans women retain some competitive advantage showing a bit of validity to the argument. However, its hard to quantify without many studies and there are clearly diminishing returns.I think what is missing from this whole conversation in general is how your genetics give athletes their biggest competitive advantages anyway. Michael Phelps has double jointed ankles and a freak wingspan which give him a huge advantage but doesn't mean we have to put him into another category. Likewise, some women have naturally higher testosterone than others but we don't even know if testosterone is the main indicator of athletic prowess. Realistically, to be an elite athlete relies on freakish genetics, hard work and mentality, and it helps a ton to have some amount of privilege to be able to singularly on your sport (especially with niche ones).
I don't see it as a huge issue at the top level considering how few trans people there are, and so why make it a huge issue across the board? Sports can be the best impact for someone's mental health and deciding a group of people with the highest suicide rates can't do them because it would be "unfair" seems cruel to me.
Mar 21 2022 12:21PM
AndrewGravesSVLike some others have pointed out, its not a huge issue except for right wingers getting triggered and blowing shit out of proportion because they found a new easy marginalized group to attack. The gut reaction is that men competing against women isn't fair which immediately frames the whole discussion as these aren't "real" women which is transphobic by nature. A brief google shows that up to a year after hormone treatment that trans women retain some competitive advantage showing a bit of validity to the argument. However, its hard to quantify without many studies and there are clearly diminishing returns.I think what is missing from this whole conversation in general is how your genetics give athletes their biggest competitive advantages anyway. Michael Phelps has double jointed ankles and a freak wingspan which give him a huge advantage but doesn't mean we have to put him into another category. Likewise, some women have naturally higher testosterone than others but we don't even know if testosterone is the main indicator of athletic prowess. Realistically, to be an elite athlete relies on freakish genetics, hard work and mentality, and it helps a ton to have some amount of privilege to be able to singularly on your sport (especially with niche ones).
I don't see it as a huge issue at the top level considering how few trans people there are, and so why make it a huge issue across the board? Sports can be the best impact for someone's mental health and deciding a group of people with the highest suicide rates can't do them because it would be "unfair" seems cruel to me.
Saying your a girl doesn’t take away your chromosomes, testosterone, bone structure, fundamentally men and women are different, apples to oranges
Mar 21 2022 12:43PM
Professor-ModeloWe ABSOLUTELY do know that testosterone levels and athletic abilities directly correlate with one another.
We know that giving someone extra testosterone will increase performance but isn't that just doping? You can say the same about a lot of chemicals/drugs.
https://www.popsci.com/story/science/testosterone-effect-athletic-performance/
Mar 21 2022 1:44PM
Mar 21 2022 4:03PM
Mar 22 2022 1:06AM
Icant_kfedSaying your a girl doesn’t take away your chromosomes, testosterone, bone structure, fundamentally men and women are different, apples to oranges
Not talking about surgeries or any transition process but I think if you're willing to present yourself as a woman to society then you should be considered one. Women have faced a lot more obstacles in our society than men, a lot of which still exist today. If you don't think thats true then you should talk to more women and listen. If you want society to treat you as a woman then you should at least be able to take the title too.
GloryHoleGaryTrans = Mental Illness
Sick take dude lay off the jordan peterson
Mar 22 2022 1:35AM
AndrewGravesSVNot talking about surgeries or any transition process but I think if you're willing to present yourself as a woman to society then you should be considered one. Women have faced a lot more obstacles in our society than men, a lot of which still exist today. If you don't think thats true then you should talk to more women and listen. If you want society to treat you as a woman then you should at least be able to take the title too.Sick take dude lay off the jordan peterson
I honestly can’t believe this is even a debate. The fact that there are people out there like yourself who literally believe the words that just came out of your mouth is absolute lunacy.
you got dick and balls you’re a dude.
you got a pussy you’re a chick.
end of story.
cannot believe this has to be explained and argued. It’s absolutely asinine.
Mar 22 2022 3:26AM
He's right, having a women's sport be dominated by biological males is an embarrassment to our societal structure as a whole. Anyone who somehow disagrees with this statement should be sterilized because they are an equal threat to our gene-pool.
**This post was edited on Mar 22nd 2022 at 3:26:42am
Mar 22 2022 6:28AM
GloryHoleGaryI honestly can’t believe this is even a debate. The fact that there are people out there like yourself who literally believe the words that just came out of your mouth is absolute lunacy.you got dick and balls you’re a dude.
you got a pussy you’re a chick.
end of story.
cannot believe this has to be explained and argued. It’s absolutely asinine.
The fact that people are downvoting this is just as scary
Mar 22 2022 7:57AM
GloryHoleGaryI honestly can’t believe this is even a debate. The fact that there are people out there like yourself who literally believe the words that just came out of your mouth is absolute lunacy.you got dick and balls you’re a dude.
you got a pussy you’re a chick.
end of story.
cannot believe this has to be explained and argued. It’s absolutely asinine.
wow theres actually a negative ratio on this, imma take a break from Newschoolers. too many public HS kids that hold an opinion which has been fed to them. Its not their fault though, these topics are for whatever reason being shoved down their throat 24/7. my mom is a public high school teacher and is literally required to speak on all of this BS as if any of it is productive. ironic how sexuality and gender definitions have become the biggest hot button issue in a pussy internet era where no one is even having sex. pose a logical argument that might hurt some people's feelings? you are now a something "-phobe". Fucking sad where this country is at
Mar 22 2022 8:07AM
yungspliffywow theres actually a negative ratio on this, imma take a break from Newschoolers. too many public HS kids that hold an opinion which has been fed to them. Its not their fault though, these topics are for whatever reason being shoved down their throat 24/7. my mom is a public high school teacher and is literally required to speak on all of this BS as if any of it is productive. ironic how sexuality and gender definitions have become the biggest hot button issue in a pussy internet era where no one is even having sex. pose a logical argument that might hurt some people's feelings? you are now a something "-phobe". Fucking sad where this country is at
Its sad you need to "take a break" from a forum because of some peoples' opinions.
Run off to your safe space, fucking snowflake.
Mar 22 2022 8:08AM
Mar 22 2022 9:13AM
Mar 22 2022 10:17AM
I get the debate there are differences between biological men and women, especially with someone early in their transition before their body has changed much. People on both sides have made good arguments as well. But can we not be blatantly transphobic though. Like you can have this debate without some of us just totally shitting on the existence of trans folk. Of course you’re entitled to your opinion but the thread “is NS to toxic” was made for a reason some of the comments in here are part of the reason why this site has the reputation of being toxic and why some newer/younger members can be afraid to post. You can have and state your opinion but be mindful that just cause you can say what you want doesn’t mean that doesn’t carry a consequence or reaction with it.