Welcome to the Newschoolers forums! You may read the forums as a guest, however you must be a registered member to post. Register to become a member today!
Like 200$ to ski in Jackson Hole for 1 day sound like A LOT of money in an european perspective. Is there something I don't know? Are cheaper places just bad or what?
I live in Turin (Italy) and here Via Lattea is like 40€ for ~ 400 km of piste and even in the Dolomites where fares are higher prices don't exceed 70 €. Same for Switzerland/France/Austria where daily tickets don't cost more than 60/70 €
At this point my future trip to the Rockies will be just about ski touring :)
It was pricey pre covid but the outdoor rec boom the pandemic brought on has really accelerated it. Some places are still placing capacity caps and are filling them even at much higher ticket prices. Rough calculation is day tickets in my area cost about 30% more than they did two seasons ago. Price of rental gear is up 100% at my local from last year. Last season every Saturday set a new record for skier visits at Bittersweet and it sounds like that trend was experienced across the continent. Once indoor activities take back over prices will hopefully go back down.
Also, the business model is shifting even more to pass sales so the cost of day tickets at many resorts like Jackson has increased to influence more pass sales.
It only is if you try to buy day tickets to international tourist destinations. Plenty of non conglomerate ski areas sell day passes less than $100. You try to go to an epic or ikon based resort without an epic or ikon pass expect to be squeezed dry. This is like asking why hotels are so expensive in london or why food is so expensive in rome.
To push people into buying passes, a guaranteed revenue stream, during Q2/3 when ski area revenue is at it’s lowest.
More people are season pass holders than ever before. A $1,000 pass “pays for itself” in five days on the hill at Mammoth, Vail, Park City, etc. if you make lift tickets unreasonably exorbitant.
Jackson hole is definitely elitist. All the rich people from LA have their ski vaca home there and you cant get a house for under $2mil. So thats why jackson is $200. As for your average resort being around $100... well power is very expensive in the united states and it takes a ton of power to run a ski mountain. So, unless the mountain is doing crazy numbers, its probably not making a killing off of lift tickets considering how big of an operation running a mountain is in utility cost, employees, equipment, and maintenance. Ski mountains are like gas stations. They dont make a lot of money off the product their customer comes for, but profit off of the other things they sell. Thats why resort food is so expensive. Resorts really rely on people booking vacations at their condos too- thats where the most profit is.
US mountains are consistently pushing towards the resort model, teaming up on season passes and turning mountains into little Disneylands. The season passes are very cheap considering what you get. They haven't gone up all that much in the last 20 years relatively while day passes have quadrupled.
I think another big difference has to be the way Europe considers risk and responsibility on the mountain versus the way the US mountains do. The US does way more maintenance on the mountain and accepts essentially zero unmitigated risk to skiers. If there is any risk of an inbounds avalanche, it's closed and you'll get your pass pulled if you duck the rope. In Europe, skiing off the run at all is often an "at your own risk" kind of thing, often there is no rope. Seeing people in the lift line with Airbags is common, even though they are riding the lifts all day. Consider La Vallee Blanche in Chamonix and you get the idea. That would NEVER be a thing at a normal US resort, it's an insurance companies nightmare. You can fall down a crevasse essentially anywhere down that "run", which is really lift accessible, glaciated backcountry skiing. If you don't make it down before the lift closes, sorry, you are now a mountaineer trying to get back to civilization. In the US, if it's on the map then people assume they are safe. You can easily die just walking down from Agui du Midi and taking a bad slip.
In Europe I always ski with my skins/beacon/shovel/etc. because it is not unreasonable to inadvertently end up somewhere sketchy or have to skin back up as conditions worsen or it becomes obvious that the lift at the bottom actually isn't open that day....oops. At Chamonix I always went skiing with my climbing harness and crevasse rescue gear. There are runs at Chamonix where you can ski down a red (blue) run and on the side there is a 2000 foot cliff or where you'll see cracks in the snow from the crevasses below. Very fun, but definitely requires knowledge and self reliance that my $50 ski pass did not include. If you wanted insurance, you had to add it to your pass every day.
Dustin.US mountains are consistently pushing towards the resort model, teaming up on season passes and turning mountains into little Disneylands. The season passes are very cheap considering what you get. They haven't gone up all that much in the last 20 years relatively while day passes have quadrupled.I think another big difference has to be the way Europe considers risk and responsibility on the mountain versus the way the US mountains do. The US does way more maintenance on the mountain and accepts essentially zero unmitigated risk to skiers. If there is any risk of an inbounds avalanche, it's closed and you'll get your pass pulled if you duck the rope. In Europe, skiing off the run at all is often an "at your own risk" kind of thing, often there is no rope. Seeing people in the lift line with Airbags is common, even though they are riding the lifts all day. Consider La Vallee Blanche in Chamonix and you get the idea. That would NEVER be a thing at a normal US resort, it's an insurance companies nightmare. You can fall down a crevasse essentially anywhere down that "run", which is really lift accessible, glaciated backcountry skiing. If you don't make it down before the lift closes, sorry, you are now a mountaineer trying to get back to civilization. In the US, if it's on the map then people assume they are safe. You can easily die just walking down from Agui du Midi and taking a bad slip.
In Europe I always ski with my skins/beacon/shovel/etc. because it is not unreasonable to inadvertently end up somewhere sketchy or have to skin back up as conditions worsen or it becomes obvious that the lift at the bottom actually isn't open that day....oops. At Chamonix I always went skiing with my climbing harness and crevasse rescue gear. There are runs at Chamonix where you can ski down a red (blue) run and on the side there is a 2000 foot cliff or where you'll see cracks in the snow from the crevasses below. Very fun, but definitely requires knowledge and self reliance that my $50 ski pass did not include. If you wanted insurance, you had to add it to your pass every day.
In terms of liability the European way is how it should be handled in the US. Years of paying out lawsuits definitely won’t help pass prices go down. At my local mountain we have a lot of creeks that don’t have east exits and a lot of people end up in there and get hurt. This takes away time from patrol to respond to accidents in actual patrolled areas. If the areas were marked as ski at your own risk, it would not only help patrol but it would help keep the kooks out of the good areas.
700billionJackson hole is definitely elitist. All the rich people from LA have their ski vaca home there and you cant get a house for under $2mil. So thats why jackson is $200. As for your average resort being around $100... well power is very expensive in the united states and it takes a ton of power to run a ski mountain. So, unless the mountain is doing crazy numbers, its probably not making a killing off of lift tickets considering how big of an operation running a mountain is in utility cost, employees, equipment, and maintenance. Ski mountains are like gas stations. They dont make a lot of money off the product their customer comes for, but profit off of the other things they sell. Thats why resort food is so expensive. Resorts really rely on people booking vacations at their condos too- thats where the most profit is.
Power is W A Y more expensive in europe
r00kieIt was pricey pre covid but the outdoor rec boom the pandemic brought on has really accelerated it. Some places are still placing capacity caps and are filling them even at much higher ticket prices. Rough calculation is day tickets in my area cost about 30% more than they did two seasons ago. Price of rental gear is up 100% at my local from last year. Last season every Saturday set a new record for skier visits at Bittersweet and it sounds like that trend was experienced across the continent. Once indoor activities take back over prices will hopefully go back down.Also, the business model is shifting even more to pass sales so the cost of day tickets at many resorts like Jackson has increased to influence more pass sales.
not for nothing but arent u in ur 20s and u still live with ur mummy and daddy,,,,, if u dont think there is something wrong with that just please shut the fuck up. ur an old head that still lives with his parents,
tutipupsPower is W A Y more expensive in europe
Yeah, that doesn't mean its not a big expense here either. Chairlifts cost a ton to run no matter where its placed. And the fact is a lot of the $100ish/day ski resorts around where I live in Vermont (that aren't owned by vail or some other conglomerate) have been struggling to stay in operation and not sellout to vail due to low vacation bookings as a result of COVID. Unfortunately, there's just not enough locals in most remote ski towns to keep the lifts spinning at less that $100/day (as a result of utility cost). That's just in my region though, Vermont does have some of the most expensive power costs in the country- probably closer to Europe's average than the US' lol (too generalize all of EU and US is stretching anyways).
The city OP mentioned, Turin has a population of 886,000. That's greater than the state of VT. Quite obviously, having a large population of locals allows the mountains to run on lower ticket rates when there are less vacations being booked. But again, I think this topic is way to regionalistic/resort specific to compare and argue about in general EU vs US. Which is why I only talked about the cost of power in the US and the fact that that is the biggest influencer in ticket price here or anywhere for sure.
You're a fucking idiot for thinking every resort in the U.S. is as expensive as skiing at Jackson Hole. That's like staying at the Ritz Carlton in Paris and complaining about hotels in France being expensive.
Also, another privileged white boy complaining about his international ski vacation in JACKSON HOLE. LOL what a fucking kook.
skiermanYou're a fucking idiot for thinking every resort in the U.S. is as expensive as skiing at Jackson Hole. That's like staying at the Ritz Carlton in Paris and complaining about hotels in France being expensive.Also, another privileged white boy complaining about his international ski vacation in JACKSON HOLE. LOL what a fucking kook.
lol you are just so... passionate. and you're not a privileged white boy as well? I mean... lets not kid ourselves here, skiing tends to be a privileged white boy pastime. Agreed, Jackson is twice the price of your average resort because they cater to the yuppie elite. but I mean, day tickets at any resort are expensive even if they're half the price of Jackson, that's why it tends to be a privileged white boy sport.
To keep out the poors.
But no it’s because of the structure of how resorts in USA are setup and, also, revenue from season passes. It’s all about the season pass here. Get lots of free days at other resorts even with smaller passes.
But yeah, generally I tend to be a little more relaxed about visiting new resorts when I’m in Europe (usually that means Finland) because I know I’m not going to pay an arm and a leg for a day ticket.
Also in Europe, it’s a collection of almost random owners of land and lifts that come together. It’s not so much a centralized operation as in USA*
*the alps that is. Not so sure about like Norway, Sweden, Finland
700billionYeah, that doesn't mean its not a big expense here either. Chairlifts cost a ton to run no matter where its placed. And the fact is a lot of the $100ish/day ski resorts around where I live in Vermont (that aren't owned by vail or some other conglomerate) have been struggling to stay in operation and not sellout to vail due to low vacation bookings as a result of COVID. Unfortunately, there's just not enough locals in most remote ski towns to keep the lifts spinning at less that $100/day (as a result of utility cost). That's just in my region though, Vermont does have some of the most expensive power costs in the country- probably closer to Europe's average than the US' lol (too generalize all of EU and US is stretching anyways).The city OP mentioned, Turin has a population of 886,000. That's greater than the state of VT. Quite obviously, having a large population of locals allows the mountains to run on lower ticket rates when there are less vacations being booked. But again, I think this topic is way to regionalistic/resort specific to compare and argue about in general EU vs US. Which is why I only talked about the cost of power in the US and the fact that that is the biggest influencer in ticket price here or anywhere for sure.
**This post was edited on Jan 28th 2022 at 1:42:19pm