They’re not ruined. Maybe they changed the edge angle and you’re just not used to it. Maybe it was the conditions? What skis are they?

I once had a pair of skis that road great, took them to get tuned after they were dulled out and needed a wax. Literally could not ski them the next day. Bases flat they would just randomly engage and pull me all over the place. Carving went from random super strong grip to nothing. Was horrible. I detuned the crap out of them and that helped but it still sucked. Still were generally horrifying to ski.

took them to a different shop got a full tune and they have been great since. Probably were edge high but I never checked.

that’s the only time it’s ever happened to me but I know it happens to other people also.

ericformanI once had a pair of skis that road great, took them to get tuned after they were dulled out and needed a wax. Literally could not ski them the next day. Bases flat they would just randomly engage and pull me all over the place. Carving went from random super strong grip to nothing. Was horrible. I detuned the crap out of them and that helped but it still sucked. Still were generally horrifying to ski.

took them to a different shop got a full tune and they have been great since. Probably were edge high but I never checked.

that’s the only time it’s ever happened to me but I know it happens to other people also.

Thanks! this is reassuring. They way you describe the skis randomly engaging and pulling--yes! It wasn't that now I had even more ski (that I couldn't handle) it's that they were erratic and clumsy. Taking them back to the mountain shop where I demoed and bought them. Hopefully they can return to former glory.

Sounds like you don't like the edge bevel on your skis now. Which is a pretty simple change for a shop to make.

The edge bevel makes a difference in how the ski feels in general. At the shop I work at, we tune everything to a 2 degree edge, unless requested otherwise. We have found that a 2 makes for a ski with good edge hold and decent edge life.

How we break it down is pretty simple, but not all encompassing, I'm sure there are people who know more about it than I do.

0 Degree edge bevel is for beginners, both adult and youth that are still snowplowing.

1 degree edge bevel is best for novice/cautious intermediate skiers who prefer slower to moderate speeds. This is best for people learning how to carve, but who are mainly skidding or sliding turns.

2 degree edge bevel is for most intermediate to expert skiers. (My preferred edge) Most manufactures send skis out with either a 1.5 or 2 degree on the edge.

3 degree edge bevel is a very aggressive tune, which requires higher edge angles (how far you lean your skis essentially).

Base bevel matters as well, most places will do a .75 to 1 degree on the base.

Depending on what Volkl skis you have the factory edge bevel may be different depending on what model and year you have but heres from Volkls website:

All ski edges (incl. Junior Pro and new Master models from the 2021/22 season), except for the FIS Race and Adult Pro models, are manufactured and sharpened with the following standard angles: 1,4° base bevel, 87,6° sidewall.

Sounds like you should get as close to that as you can.

what skis? what base/edge did you have, what did you put on them?

sounds like maybe you got a 0.5 base?

Dude seriously what skis? This can help us guide you and give you advice

BradFiAusNzCoCaDude seriously what skis? This can help us guide you and give you advice

They're kenjas. I didn't want to say the model because I got horribly patronized at the shop and told I simply need to lean forward more. Another guy chimed in and reminded me that they're performance skis.

I think they might have given me a different bevel than factory specs--although they promised me that they did. Or the bevel needs to be finished by hand at the top? They said they detuned the tips and tails to factory specs, but maybe not enough? But it didn't run like it did out of the wrapper. There was a radical difference in performance. More than can be accounted for by conditions or me "in my head" which was the suggestion of another guy on the mountain. No one bothered to examine the skis except to ensure the edges are sharp. That's why I came here.

kenja 88? thats the shorter of a kendo 88 ?

@Greg_K has the kendo so maybe he has something for you

did you get the angles they set?

its not really a super demanding ski, supposed to be more mellow, but still perform

kenja 88? thats the shorter of a kendo 88 ?

@Greg_K has the kendo so maybe he has something for you

did you get the angles they set?

its not really a super demanding ski, supposed to be more mellow, but still perform

anders_akenja 88? thats the shorter of a kendo 88 ?

@Greg_K[/tag] has the kendo so maybe he has something for you

did you get the angles they set?

its not really a super demanding ski, supposed to be more mellow, but still perform

Yes the Kenja 88. Nope they sure didn't tell me any information. I kept asking what precisely was done. Never got answer.

No, I never thought it was a super demanding ski! That's it exactly. Before my last horrible run I was thinking that I should have gotten the Secret 92s because the Kenjas were in fact so easy for me and too mellow. So I was pretty surprised to be told these skis are "performance" and "too much to handle." They kept trying to sell me black pearls because "ladies love them." Hard pass. They were boring and slow.

GlassFastYes the Kenja 88. Nope they sure didn't tell me any information. I kept asking what precisely was done. Never got answer.

No, I never thought it was a super demanding ski! That's it exactly. Before my last horrible run I was thinking that I should have gotten the Secret 92s because the Kenjas were in fact so easy for me and too mellow. So I was pretty surprised to be told these skis are "performance" and "too much to handle." They kept trying to sell me black pearls because "ladies love them." Hard pass. They were boring and slow.

Sounds like they screwed up your tune and are also jerks for assuming you need the mellower ladies skis instead of the hard chargers....I certainly would not be giving that shop any more business for the treatment and not being able to tell you what exactly they did to your skis.

Your symptoms sound like an edge high/railed ski and/or the base bevels are not consistent along the whole ski.

Skis that are edge high will seem “locked into a turn” and tough to pivot like you’re describing. They might just have to do a few more stone grind flattening passes to get it right. So make sure the ski bases are fairly flat tip to tail and THEN you can move to the edges.

Another issue after your bases are flat are edge bevels(especially base bevels) that are inconsistent tip to tail. You might have parts of the ski instantly responding any subtle movements and not being as forgiving as they should be. So you have to hand check edge angles after any grind as grinds will change levels.

Non race ski Volkls are 1 degree base and 2 degree side angles. I bet there are areas along your skis that are below 1 degree base bevel that will make it more sensitive than they should be.

Feeling the need to detune a ski is a sign of a base that’s not flat or inconsistent edge angles so any shop with any expertise would check those first. Thinking waxing will solve your issues is also insane.

So get the bases check for flatness and stone grind flat if needed, check the edge angles(by hand) are uniform tip/tail at 1 degrees base and 2 side, hot wax and you should be golden!

Good luck!

Greg_KYour symptoms sound like an edge high/railed ski and/or the base bevels are not consistent along the whole ski.

Skis that are edge high will seem “locked into a turn” and tough to pivot like you’re describing. They might just have to do a few more stone grind flattening passes to get it right. So make sure the ski bases are fairly flat tip to tail and THEN you can move to the edges.

Another issue after your bases are flat are edge bevels(especially base bevels) that are inconsistent tip to tail. You might have parts of the ski instantly responding any subtle movements and not being as forgiving as they should be. So you have to hand check edge angles after any grind as grinds will change levels.

Non race ski Volkls are 1 degree base and 2 degree side angles. I bet there are areas along your skis that are below 1 degree base bevel that will make it more sensitive than they should be.

Feeling the need to detune a ski is a sign of a base that’s not flat or inconsistent edge angles so any shop with any expertise would check those first. Thinking waxing will solve your issues is also insane.

So get the bases check for flatness and stone grind flat if needed, check the edge angles(by hand) are uniform tip/tail at 1 degrees base and 2 side, hot wax and you should be golden!

Good luck!

Thank you for this! I'm so relieved with all the posts--that I'm not imagining things.

nmwninjartSounds like they screwed up your tune and are also jerks for assuming you need the mellower ladies skis instead of the hard chargers....I certainly would not be giving that shop any more business for the treatment and not being able to tell you what exactly they did to your skis.

Thanks for saying so!

Holy jinx batmen...

i was just mentioning in another thread that i read multiple places that the base grind that shops do is usually pure horseshit compared to the really good base grind that volkl does in its factory.

the best thing (you could have done, too late now) is take care of your skis bases by waxing them alot etc... so u dont need another base grind.

i would ask for your money back for the tune and maybe contact volkl to see if they know any ski shops in your area that actually have a good base grind machine and techs that know wtf they are doing.

**This post was edited on Feb 20th 2021 at 1:13:38am

It is. I worked at a shop where they would just hand run the base over a Montana machine from like 1985 for the base grind. The belts were worn. Then they would manually run the base along a belt for the jankiest edge grind/set you have ever seen. We also sold kendos and Kenjas.

Sounds like op went to a shop like that. I enjoyed working at the shop but god, tunes were such an absolute ripoff.

DolansLebensraumHoly jinx batmen...

i was just mentioning in another thread that i read multiple places that the base grind that shops do is usually pure horseshit compared to the really good base grind that volkl does in its factory.

the best thing (you could have done, too late now) is take care of your skis bases by waxing them alot etc... so u dont need another base grind.

i would ask for your money back for the tune and maybe contact volkl to see if they know any ski shops in your area that actually have a good base grind machine and techs that know wtf they are doing.

**This post was edited on Feb 20th 2021 at 1:13:38am

I just woke up when I wrote this. The edge grinder was so shitty, I can’t even find a picture of it online. It was basically a belt that spun sideways and they would take the skis and run it along with their hands. No machine guiding, nothing. No base edge setting, no detuning. Now that I know a lot more about base structure, edge vs base edge, etc. - it was horrible. I’m very confident you went to a shop like this, OP. Most people aren’t good enough skiers to notice but you were. You should say the name of the shop

BradFiAusNzCoCaIt is. I worked at a shop where they would just hand run the base over a Montana machine from like 1985 for the base grind. The belts were worn. Then they would manually run the base along a belt for the jankiest edge grind/set you have ever seen. We also sold kendos and Kenjas.

Sounds like op went to a shop like that. I enjoyed working at the shop but god, tunes were such an absolute ripoff.

Another huge red flag to poor quality shops is the use of sandpaper belts alone rather than a stone use to flatten the ski.

Sandpaper should only be used in extreme cases where there are very large scratches on the base and you need to remove a lot of base material to resolve the issue. The sandpaper leaves the skis very rough and slow that no waxing will resolve.

A stone will remove less base material and leave it smoother during the flattening pass stage. Then the stone grinder will apply a structure pattern to the base on it’s final pass in order to whisk away moisture under the ski and provide a fast glide. I only have stones touch my skis!

So if they just used sandpaper and no stone on the tune, that would compound the base flatness and edge bevels issues.

You want a STONE GRIND to flatten and then structure the base, hand tune the edges to have consistent base and edge bevels and finally a hot wax and brush.

Yea you arnt crazy it happens. Shop also told me I needed to get better at skiing and it was my fault and were super condescending. I was like lol dog okay.

GlassFastThanks! this is reassuring. They way you describe the skis randomly engaging and pulling--yes! It wasn't that now I had even more ski (that I couldn't handle) it's that they were erratic and clumsy. Taking them back to the mountain shop where I demoed and bought them. Hopefully they can return to former glory.

BradFiAusNzCoCaI just woke up when I wrote this. The edge grinder was so shitty, I can’t even find a picture of it online. It was basically a belt that spun sideways and they would take the skis and run it along with their hands. No machine guiding, nothing. No base edge setting, no detuning. Now that I know a lot more about base structure, edge vs base edge, etc. - it was horrible. I’m very confident you went to a shop like this, OP. Most people aren’t good enough skiers to notice but you were. You should say the name of the shop

OC Snowsports in Costa Mesa.

The thing is the owner told me he has the exact same equipment that voelkl uses. State of the art, etc. etc. I just didn't have enough experience or know the right words to use to challenge him. They do lots of rentals bu dont offer demo skis. So I thought it could also be operator error. There was poor communication over when my skis would be ready. I kept calling to see if they were ready and they said they'd text me. Well the day they were supposed to be ready I still never received a text so I called. I was told they were finished the day before. Then 2 days after I pick them up I get a text that they're ready. Perhaps a final step was overlooked and they were not actually ready when i picked them up.

But no one at the shop would take me seriously and no one inspected my skis. I don't really know exactly what to look for, but I checked the edges and I see bevels that look consistent to my eyes (means nothing). But I can't see a base structure at all. In any light. I remember seeing it before, although I didn't know what I was looking at. I'll try again in natural light this morning. The bases instead look really, really dry. I hardly used them and the mountain repair guy put a quick wax on them. After that I did maybe 4 runs--super slow on greens/blues. How can they already need another wax?

pics?

Unfortunately, some shops are just dicks and they talk down to customers and bank on them not knowing enough about equipment.

I agree with the other poster - pics will help.

GlassFastOC Snowsports in Costa Mesa.

The thing is the owner told me he has the exact same equipment that voelkl uses. State of the art, etc. etc. I just didn't have enough experience or know the right words to use to challenge him. They do lots of rentals bu dont offer demo skis. So I thought it could also be operator error. There was poor communication over when my skis would be ready. I kept calling to see if they were ready and they said they'd text me. Well the day they were supposed to be ready I still never received a text so I called. I was told they were finished the day before. Then 2 days after I pick them up I get a text that they're ready. Perhaps a final step was overlooked and they were not actually ready when i picked them up.

But no one at the shop would take me seriously and no one inspected my skis. I don't really know exactly what to look for, but I checked the edges and I see bevels that look consistent to my eyes (means nothing). But I can't see a base structure at all. In any light. I remember seeing it before, although I didn't know what I was looking at. I'll try again in natural light this morning. The bases instead look really, really dry. I hardly used them and the mountain repair guy put a quick wax on them. After that I did maybe 4 runs--super slow on greens/blues. How can they already need another wax?

Depending on what machine they used to tune them you can end up with an “edge high” situation. This happens when the bases get too hot during the grind/sanding process. It expands and when it cools off it shrinks causing the edges to be higher then the center of the base causing a “concave” base (see pic). Get them retuned by a better shop. Make sure you tell them you want 1’ base and 1’ side bevel.

**This post was edited on Feb 20th 2021 at 1:54:39pm

ok here are a bunch of pics. I missed the good morning light. but hopefully you can see that if there is base structure it's hard to find and that they're super dry looking.

I appreciate you guys digging into this mystery for me!

Quick first observations:

1) looks like they raised the base bevel

2) base looks dry

GlassFastok here are a bunch of pics. I missed the good morning light. but hopefully you can see that if there is base structure it's hard to find and that they're super dry looking.

I appreciate you guys digging into this mystery for me!

for real? is that how they looked when you got them? not after days of skiiing?

GlassFastok here are a bunch of pics. I missed the good morning light. but hopefully you can see that if there is base structure it's hard to find and that they're super dry looking.

I appreciate you guys digging into this mystery for me!

Those have no structure at all and looks like they were just run over sandpaper which would leave the surface very rough like you see it now. Those skis will be slow as hell even with the proper wax due you course finish and lack of structure.

They need to be run flat over a STONE which will provide a much flatter and smoother finish and once they are flat, you run a pass or two with a universal structure in the stone so your ski can properly channel the moisture under the ski.

anders_afor real? is that how they looked when you got them? not after days of skiiing?

They didn't look like this when I picked them up. They weren't dry looking. I skied about 4 runs and then took them to the mountain repair. At this point they still looked normal (though I wasn't checking for base structure). The guy then ran them over a belt and then waxed and ironed the tips. I skied about 4 more runs and quit because although they were about 50% better and I could turn now it was still awful and erratic.

GlassFastThey didn't look like this when I picked them up. They weren't dry looking. I skied about 4 runs and then took them to the mountain repair. At this point they still looked normal (though I wasn't checking for base structure). The guy then ran them over a belt and then waxed and ironed the tips. I skied about 4 more runs and quit because although they were about 50% better and I could turn now it was still awful and erratic.

Wax would just temporarily cover up the lack of structure and the fuzzy, rough surface you have.

Here’s pics of 4 different skis that I’m about to wax so the wax isn’t hiding issues. Some lines on the bases from my edge guide as I sharpened the edges before.

good news bad news thing, you just need to take them to someone with correct equipment to do a base stone grind + structure like @Greg_K says.

this is what $40 gives me, I've skied them 6 days 0 waxing and they look like this (yeah I suck at waxing)

Lots of responses here. But I hate skis with sharp edges. It’s just my skiing style.

They likely didn’t detune your contact points either. That leads to catching and hanging up on everything.

find/buy a gummy stone and detune those edges

Are they even sharp? It looks like they just ran the skis over a sand paper belt and called it

shin-bangLots of responses here. But I hate skis with sharp edges. It’s just my skiing style.

They likely didn’t detune your contact points either. That leads to catching and hanging up on everything.

find/buy a gummy stone and detune those edges

its a carving ski, but shapes makes it very pivotable for woods etc, edges needs to be sharp.

there is way more going on than detuning tips & tails here.

I have skis without edges, I have skis with 87/0.5 edges, I change my style up for the ski I use, and boots, and what I wanna do for the day.

Update!! So guess what--all the different suggests posted here--they're all right! My skis had 3 problems:

1. no base structure

2. convex

3. edges still showing striations from being ground with stone.

No wonder I couldn't ski! Can you believe this??? The audacity of these guys to suggest it was my skiing or the snow.

And the best part, the tech who helped me out fixed my skis for free. Made my season.

So if anyone ever is in Mammoth go see Ben at Footloose. He actually listened to me and took me seriously. And most importantly--physically looked at my skis, which he diagnosed in like 30 seconds. An actual tech and not just a machine operator.

Anyway, in case anyone wanted to know how the mystery would be solved.

And, they rode great today.

That is such good news they're fixed up and you didn't get charged! Man what an ordeal!

GlassFastUpdate!! So guess what--all the different suggests posted here--they're all right! My skis had 3 problems:

1. no base structure

2. convex

3. edges still showing striations from being ground with stone.

No wonder I couldn't ski! Can you believe this??? The audacity of these guys to suggest it was my skiing or the snow.

And the best part, the tech who helped me out fixed my skis for free. Made my season.

So if anyone ever is in Mammoth go see Ben at Footloose. He actually listened to me and took me seriously. And most importantly--physically looked at my skis, which he diagnosed in like 30 seconds. An actual tech and not just a machine operator.

Anyway, in case anyone wanted to know how the mystery would be solved.

And, they rode great today.

That's epic. Glad it worked out so well. Ben is the MVP.

DolansLebensraumHoly jinx batmen...

i was just mentioning in another thread that i read multiple places that the base grind that shops do is usually pure horseshit compared to the really good base grind that volkl does in its factory.

the best thing (you could have done, too late now) is take care of your skis bases by waxing them alot etc... so u dont need another base grind.

i would ask for your money back for the tune and maybe contact volkl to see if they know any ski shops in your area that actually have a good base grind machine and techs that know wtf they are doing.

**This post was edited on Feb 20th 2021 at 1:13:38am

I hope ppl read this warning. Base grinds on shitty machines or performed by techs who dont know what their doing can ruin your bases. Ive read this more than once. The machines that ski companies use in the factory to flatten the bases/edges are worlds better than the shit they have in alot of ski shops. Of course there are some ski shops with good machines and techs that know what they are doing. But its a gamble i will never take and i suggest nobody else makes the mistake op made.

BradFiAusNzCoCaIt is. I worked at a shop where they would just hand run the base over a Montana machine from like 1985 for the base grind. The belts were worn. Then they would manually run the base along a belt for the jankiest edge grind/set you have ever seen. We also sold kendos and Kenjas.

Sounds like op went to a shop like that. I enjoyed working at the shop but god, tunes were such an absolute ripoff.

Yeah its kind of maddening. I cant stand when ppl assume shit is easier than it is.

ericformanYea you arnt crazy it happens. Shop also told me I needed to get better at skiing and it was my fault and were super condescending. I was like lol dog okay.

If they said that to me id tell them to eat shit and kill themselves.

shin-bangLots of responses here. But I hate skis with sharp edges. It’s just my skiing style.

They likely didn’t detune your contact points either. That leads to catching and hanging up on everything.

find/buy a gummy stone and detune those edges

I like my edges in between dull and sharp. I agree that if ur edges are too sharp its no good but dull edges are also bad. I think there is a sweet spot in the middle.

and its fine for me bc i dont really hit rails anymore because busted edges look like chlamidya.