I do agree with you but you still need to vote, it is a choice but it is a chance for your choice to be heard.

If one person doesn't vote or does vote yeah it doesn't matter, but when hundreds of thousands of people adopt this viewpoint of not voting, that is when it does affect outcomes.

BlumpkinPumpkinIf one person doesn't vote or does vote yeah it doesn't matter, but when hundreds of thousands of people adopt this viewpoint of not voting, that is when it does affect outcomes.

Very true, but one person going out to vote has no affect on the other thousands of people who choose not to vote.

Your concept of "my vote doesnt count" is completely false and to believe such concept is a huge problem in the USA. 55% (138.8million) of eligible voters (250.1million) voted in 2016, I'm sure not all of the 112m people didnt think "my one vote doesnt count" you're completely forgetting about the scale of the population of the USA. Voter turnout in a presidential year hasn't broken 60% since the 60s, its a huge problem and I think its very connected to the idea of "one vote doesnt count".

That being said, I do feel my vote (moderate democrat) is almost worthless on a state level (Utah, very conservative) because i am in the minority of political beliefs. This is my choice, I could live somewhere that aligns with my views, so its partially my fault, but is pretty frustrating that utah goes red in almost every political position. Regardless of this, I always vote, voting is a privilege, don't abuse it.

eheathYour concept of "my vote doesnt count" is completely false and to believe such concept is a huge problem in the USA. 55% (138.8million) of eligible voters (250.1million) voted in 2016, I'm sure not all of the 112m people didnt think "my one vote doesnt count" you're completely forgetting about the scale of the population of the USA. Voter turnout in a presidential year hasn't broken 60% since the 60s, its a huge problem and I think its very connected to the idea of "one vote doesnt count".

That being said, I do feel my vote (moderate democrat) is almost worthless on a state level (Utah, very conservative) because i am in the minority of political beliefs. This is my choice, I could live somewhere that aligns with my views, so its partially my fault, but is pretty frustrating that utah goes red in almost every political position. Regardless of this, I always vote, voting is a privilege, don't abuse it.

Its not false tho, like I said above one person losing that mentality and going out to vote has no affect on the other thousands of people who still choose not to vote. Im not gonna sit here and tell you not to vote, Im just saying that there is no reason to get stressed out and worry about the election when your vote does not matter. Im not saying that mentality is the correct one to have (in principle its not a good mentality to have at all for a healthy democracy) but it is the truth from a numbers standpoint. Especially when you consider that fact that no matter how educated/informed you are, your vote counts the same as john doe who votes based off of what the latest buzzfeed article said.

The only way your vote could make any conceivable difference is if you yourself go door to door and convince multiple others to vote in the same way you do.

supersquidVery true, but one person going out to vote has no affect on the other thousands of people who choose not to vote.

Dude the votes add up it is pretty basic math. Voting problem is totally because of individuals that are buying this crap.

A high percentage of the rich people are voting. It matters to them and they would rather you not vote either

OregonDeadDude the votes add up it is pretty basic math. Voting problem is totally because of individuals that are buying this crap.

A high percentage of the rich people are voting. It matters to them and they would rather you not vote either

Im not saying they dont add up, I understand basic math.... But you, one person voting gives one side a +1, this does literally nothing to affect the outcome unless you compound it with hundreds of others. There is no "quantum entanglement" that by you voting you somehow magically change someones mind to come out and vote as well. Unless you physically gather a crowd of non voters to go vote, one person can not make a difference by just their one vote. I understand that in principle this is not the correct mentality but in reality it is the truth.

supersquidIts not false tho, like I said above one person losing that mentality and going out to vote has no affect on the other thousands of people who still choose not to vote. Im not gonna sit here and tell you not to vote, Im just saying that there is no reason to get stressed out and worry about the election when your vote does not matter. Im not saying that mentality is the correct one to have (in principle its not a good mentality to have at all for a healthy democracy) but it is the truth from a numbers standpoint. Especially when you consider that fact that no matter how educated/informed you are, your vote counts the same as john doe who votes based off of what the latest buzzfeed article said.

The only way your vote could make any conceivable difference is if you yourself go door to door and convince multiple others to vote in the same way you do.

You don't seem to understand what I'm saying, your thoughts of "my vote doesnt matter" isnt a new fucking concept dude, there are MILLIONS of people every fucking year that say "my vote doesnt matter" and they don't vote. Did you even read my post?

When 112 MILLION people don't vote, 45% of eligible voters, that makes a huge difference.

For example, 33% of voters in Wisconsin (1 million people) didn't vote, if 150k more people voted for Hilary Clinton, she would have won the state. 1 million people said "my vote doesnt matter" and if even 25% of those people voted, it could have changed the results. This could happen in EVERY state. People sit on their ass and bitch about politics, but they don't vote, when you don't vote you are one small piece of breaking down democracy, you might be just 1 but there are literally millions of people just like you bruh.

supersquidIm not saying they dont add up, I understand basic math.... But you, one person voting gives one side a +1, this does literally nothing to affect the outcome unless you compound it with hundreds of others. There is no "quantum entanglement" that by you voting you somehow magically change someones mind to come out and vote as well. Unless you physically gather a crowd of non voters to go vote, one person can not make a difference by just their one vote. I understand that in principle this is not the correct mentality but in reality it is the truth.

Now you're just contradicting yourself my dude. The thing is, voting is a group activity, not an individual action. If everyone believed their vote mattered, we'd have a better functioning democracy. Right now, people 45yo + have 68% turnout while 18-45 is 50% and what do we see? Old white people making stupid laws and policies. Im assuming you're under 45, which means you are part of the problem. People 18-30 need to fucking vote.

eheathYou don't seem to understand what I'm saying, your thoughts of "my vote doesnt matter" isnt a new fucking concept dude, there are MILLIONS of people every fucking year that say "my vote doesnt matter" and they don't vote. Did you even read my post?

When 112 MILLION people don't vote, 45% of eligible voters, that makes a huge difference.

For example, 33% of voters in Wisconsin (1 million people) didn't vote, if 150k more people voted for Hilary Clinton, she would have won the state. 1 million people said "my vote doesnt matter" and if even 25% of those people voted, it could have changed the results. This could happen in EVERY state. People sit on their ass and bitch about politics, but they don't vote, when you don't vote you are one small piece of breaking down democracy, you might be just 1 but there are literally millions of people just like you bruh.

I never said it was a new concept, Im just trying to start a conversation. I did understand your post, you dont seem to understand mine. I literally said "This is the wrong mentality to have for a healthy functioning democracy", yes in principle if everyone decided to vote they could change the election, but by you voting u have no affect on whether those other thousands of people vote. Like I said before that mentality is not a good one to have but it is the truth. This post was more intended to discuss the pointlessness of getting stressed out and angry over something that you can not change. It was not meant to trigger you.

Your arguing against the principle of what I am saying, Im arguing for the reality of the matter.

eheathNow you're just contradicting yourself my dude. The thing is, voting is a group activity, not an individual action. If everyone believed their vote mattered, we'd have a better functioning democracy. Right now, people 45yo + have 68% turnout while 18-45 is 50% and what do we see? Old white people making stupid laws and policies. Im assuming you're under 45, which means you are part of the problem. People 18-30 need to fucking vote.

There are also correlations between income and voting rates so the rich old white guys are almost for sure going to vote. Rich guys don't have time to waste on stuff that doesn't pay off but controlling who decides regulations taxes and budget issues has a direct pay off so it is good business to vote

supersquidI never said it was a new concept, Im just trying to start a conversation. I did understand your post, you dont seem to understand mine. I literally said "This is the wrong mentality to have for a healthy functioning democracy", yes in principle if everyone decided to vote they could change the election, but by you voting u have no affect on whether those other thousands of people vote. Like I said before that mentality is not a good one to have but it is the truth. This post was more intended to discuss the pointlessness of getting stressed out and angry over something that you can not change. It was not meant to trigger you.

Your arguing against the principle of what I am saying, Im arguing for the reality of the matter.

How high are you? Can I have some?

I honestly can't really make sense of anything you are trying to say, your recognizing the idea that the idea of "my vote doesnt matter" is terrible for our country but yet you still think voting is worthless? So you get to sit on your ass and not vote because it "doesn't influence other to vote" but everyone else should vote? The only way this changes is if people like you go out an vote, believe your vote matters and tell other people you know to vote. Its all baby steps, everyone has to do their part, which includes voting on your own.

Voting is not inherently "worthless" and your vote isnt "worthless" because the idea of "my vote doesnt count" is accepted by millions.

I think its more likely you're apolitical than you are against voting.

eheathHow high are you? Can I have some?

I honestly can't really make sense of anything you are trying to say, your recognizing the idea that the idea of "my vote doesnt matter" is terrible for our country but yet you still think voting is worthless? So you get to sit on your ass and not vote because it "doesn't influence other to vote" but everyone else should vote? The only way this changes is if people like you go out an vote, believe your vote matters and tell other people you know to vote. Its all baby steps, everyone has to do their part, which includes voting on your own.

Voting is not inherently "worthless" and your vote isnt "worthless" because the idea of "my vote doesnt count" is accepted by millions.

Im saying that I grew up with parents who sat and bitched at the tv over every political debate and news story related to politics. My friend's parents did the same. Every get together/ social event turned into a semi-heated political discussion. It caused a lot of heated arguments and overall bad vibes. And then once a year they went out and voted and told themselves that they were making a difference.

Im saying that if you get that heated/angry about politics all year, and then all you do is go out and vote that is essentially pointless because all your doing is shifting the vote +1 in either direction. Thats a lot of unnecessary stress/bad attitude to put on yourself/others when thats all your doing.

If you really care about politics/which direction our country is going then you should be doing something more hands on. Contribute money to candidates, go door to door, put up signs, volunteer at rallies. But sitting around and bitching all year and then showing up to the poles to cast your vote thinking you have made any difference is semi delusional in my opinion. Yes you get to go home and tell yourself that you did your part, but is that fleeting sense of accomplishment enough to counteract all of the bs you put yourself through all year? I dont think it is, because at the end of the day when its all said and done the election was not won by one vote.

The referenced post has been removed.

1 single vote does not matter, 5000 votes does matter. You only get one vote and the difference between 4999 and 5000 is so minimal that it essentially is the same. By you driving to the pole, and putting your ballet in you have not affected other people who may or may not have voted in one way or another. The purpose of this thread was to highlight the point that people get way to heated over politics only to show up to the poles to shift it +1 in either direction.

supersquidIm saying that I grew up with parents who sat and bitched at the tv over every political debate and news story related to politics. My friend's parents did the same. Every get together/ social event turned into a semi-heated political discussion. It caused a lot of heated arguments and overall bad vibes. And then once a year they went out and voted and told themselves that they were making a difference.

Im saying that if you get that heated/angry about politics all year, and then all you do is go out and vote that is essentially pointless because all your doing is shifting the vote +1 in either direction. Thats a lot of unnecessary stress/bad attitude to put on yourself/others when thats all your doing.

If you really care about politics/which direction our country is going then you should be doing something more hands on. Contribute money to candidates, go door to door, put up signs, volunteer at rallies. But sitting around and bitching all year and then showing up to the poles to cast your vote thinking you have made any difference is semi delusional in my opinion. Yes you get to go home and tell yourself that you did your part, but is that fleeting sense of accomplishment enough to counteract all of the bs you put yourself through all year? I dont think it is, because at the end of the day when its all said and done the election was not won by one vote.

Sounds like you hate politics, that's fine, but voting is not pointless and you said "change your mind" but you clearly aren't going to. Don't make a "change my mind" post and then shut everything down.

Im still quite confused by why you keep referring to "one vote" when again, voting isn't about the individual, its about coming together and voting. You're certainly right that if you cared about politics, there are many things you can do or people you can support, organizations, etc. but when you vote, you exercise your rights as an american citizen and honestly, if everyone just voted, we'd be much better off.

If you don't want to vote, that's your choice, you are choosing to have zero opinion about local, state and federal laws/policies and the people who control those laws/policies. Why you would want thats is a little confusing, might as well live in china brother. Even if you hate politics and the stress around it, just ignore it until its time to vote, do your research and vote.

supersquid1 single vote does not matter, 5000 votes does matter. You only get one vote and the difference between 4999 and 5000 is so minimal that it essentially is the same. By you driving to the pole, and putting your ballet in you have not affected other people who may or may not have voted in one way or another. The purpose of this thread was to highlight the point that people get way to heated over politics only to show up to the poles to shift it +1 in either direction.

I feel like you're a bit stuck here. We get that 1 vote doesnt matter, but million of people choosing not to vote is something that will only change when the millions of people decide to vote. You old enough to remember vote or die with pdiddy? HUGE campaign to get young people to vote, didn't really do anything. Its a choice everyone needs to make individually and you choosing to believe it doesn't matter IS THE PROBLEM DUDE are you just trolling? like just tell me if ur trolling plz.

eheathSounds like you hate politics, that's fine, but voting is not pointless and you said "change your mind" but you clearly aren't going to. Don't make a "change my mind" post and then shut everything down.

Im still quite confused by why you keep referring to "one vote" when again, voting isn't about the individual, its about coming together and voting. You're certainly right that if you cared about politics, there are many things you can do or people you can support, organizations, etc. but when you vote, you exercise your rights as an american citizen and honestly, if everyone just voted, we'd be much better off.

If you don't want to vote, that's your choice, you are choosing to have zero opinion about local, state and federal laws/policies and the people who control those laws/policies. Why you would want thats is a little confusing, might as well live in china brother. Even if you hate politics and the stress around it, just ignore it until its time to vote, do your research and vote.

"One vote" as in one single person deciding to show up to the polls or not show up. While voting is a group act, it is made of of individual votes. Each individual got in their car and drove to the poll to form a collective of votes in favor of one person. That collective is going to survive regardless if one person did or did not show up that day.

Title was misleading, only meant to be an attention grabber. Im not looking for a debate. Just want to hear if others feel the same way and are sick of hearing people bitch about this and that when all they do is show up to the polls as an individual and cast their vote. Im sure you have heard some one say "If you dont vote then you shouldnt bitch about the outcome" Im extending that to the idea that after a certain extent if all you do is vote you should not be bitching as much as you do.

The referenced post has been removed.

fair point, title has been changed

supersquid"One vote" as in one single person deciding to show up to the polls or not show up. While voting is a group act, it is made of of individual votes. Each individual got in their car and drove to the poll to form a collective of votes in favor of one person. That collective is going to survive regardless if one person did or did not show up that day.

Title was misleading, only meant to be an attention grabber. Im not looking for a debate. Just want to hear if others feel the same way and are sick of hearing people bitch about this and that when all they do is show up to the polls as an individual and cast their vote. Im sure you have heard some one say "If you dont vote then you shouldnt bitch about the outcome" Im extending that to the idea that after a certain extent if all you do is vote you should not be bitching as much as you do.

When has there ever been a voting situation one person that didn't vote? Literally never dude. You're enforcing the lazy attitude of "everyone else is gonna vote so I don't have to" 112 MILLION eligible voters didnt vote in 2016, the 12th largest country IN THE WORLD is 112 Million people.

The title is extremely misleading, it should say "I don't like politics, don't change my mind" also, you're clearly debating dude haha don't just act like you don't want to argue. I think people are upset about voter turnout, but like I said people have tried, doesn't really seem to help us. I thought trump running would bring way more people out, maybe that'll change in 2020, doubt it though. It comes down to the individual choosing to vote, its ideals you have laid out in this thread that is causing the problem, YOU are the problem supersquid.

Your last statement is asinine because you obviously don't vote.

eheathWhen has there ever been a voting situation one person that didn't vote? Literally never dude. You're enforcing the lazy attitude of "everyone else is gonna vote so I don't have to" 112 MILLION eligible voters didnt vote in 2016, the 12th largest country IN THE WORLD is 112 Million people.

The title is extremely misleading, it should say "I don't like politics, don't change my mind" also, you're clearly debating dude haha don't just act like you don't want to argue. I think people are upset about voter turnout, but like I said people have tried, doesn't really seem to help us. I thought trump running would bring way more people out, maybe that'll change in 2020, doubt it though. It comes down to the individual choosing to vote, its ideals you have laid out in this thread that is causing the problem, YOU are the problem supersquid.

Your last statement is asinine because you obviously don't vote.

This thread really seems to have hit a sensitive chord with you. I also dont understand why your so caught up on people not voting. Its like you assume everyone who dosent vote has the same opinion and if they all united and voted, one candidate would beat the other completely away. And the country would be perfect. Those that dont vote all have different political views as well.

It still dosent change the fact that an individual person can do nothing to sway an election that governs their life. So there is really no point for an individual to vote. Hence the reason I dont understand why people get so angry over politics.

If you're not in a swing state, your vote for the presidential election is pointless.

HOWEVA, your vote does the potential impact state and national level congressional politics.

So go vote.

**This post was edited on Nov 8th 2019 at 6:02:43pm

supersquidThis thread really seems to have hit a sensitive chord with you. I also dont understand why your so caught up on people not voting. Its like you assume everyone who dosent vote has the same opinion and if they all united and voted, one candidate would beat the other completely away. And the country would be perfect. Those that dont vote all have different political views as well.

Yeah I think its ludicrous how many people don't vote, I'm not saying it would be perfect, but if more people voted we'd have a better democracy. This has nothing to do with one candidate beating another, it has to do with people voting for their representatives to better "represent" their views and beliefs into our government. Those 112 million people have beliefs, doesn't matter what it is, but they should be voting so that our government accurately represents the people who live in the country, not old white rich men.

Our government is run by the people we elect, by voting. One vote matters because every vote matters, people win state races by 100s, town elections can be decided by 5-10 votes. All of these positions matter, whether city counsel in a town of 200 people or state representatives in Hawaii, or governor of Chicago or mayor of LA, etc every position matters because they govern our country. There are plenty of examples where certain votes dont matter (ie red state like utah) but just because your state might give their electoral college votes to one party, your local elections are just as important. So please, stop spouting bullshit about how voting doesnt matter.

supersquidIt still dosent change the fact that an individual person can do nothing to sway an election that governs their life. So there is really no point for an individual to vote. Hence the reason I dont understand why people get so angry over politics.

Lets play a game. Everyone decides to follow your train of thought, everyone decides their individual vote doesn't matter. Nobody votes, nobody cares about politics now. Democracy doesn't exist, our government collapses, trump is now the dictator of the USA. Good one dude.

eheathYour concept of "my vote doesnt count" is completely false and to believe such concept is a huge problem in the USA. 55% (138.8million) of eligible voters (250.1million) voted in 2016, I'm sure not all of the 112m people didnt think "my one vote doesnt count" you're completely forgetting about the scale of the population of the USA. Voter turnout in a presidential year hasn't broken 60% since the 60s, its a huge problem and I think its very connected to the idea of "one vote doesnt count".

That being said, I do feel my vote (moderate democrat) is almost worthless on a state level (Utah, very conservative) because i am in the minority of political beliefs. This is my choice, I could live somewhere that aligns with my views, so its partially my fault, but is pretty frustrating that utah goes red in almost every political position. Regardless of this, I always vote, voting is a privilege, don't abuse it.

this

No voting crew

I vote, but I personally don't believe it matters very much. Our government is incredibly hamstrung by the two party system and money in politics ensures that it stays a corrupt system. It's a pessimistic view, but until we take money out of political campaigning, there will always be enormously powerful lobbies who will control our politics and law.

Edit: Also, much of the American populace is more feeble minded than you would believe. Candidates pay enormous amounts of money for political advertising because it is effective. People don't even read the platform on who they will be voting for. Personally, I think that a test on candidates views to vote would be immoral, but having information on candidates platforms and views that must be read prior to voting wouldn't be.

eheathYeah I think its ludicrous how many people don't vote, I'm not saying it would be perfect, but if more people voted we'd have a better democracy. This has nothing to do with one candidate beating another, it has to do with people voting for their representatives to better "represent" their views and beliefs into our government. Those 112 million people have beliefs, doesn't matter what it is, but they should be voting so that our government accurately represents the people who live in the country, not old white rich men.

Our government is run by the people we elect, by voting. One vote matters because every vote matters, people win state races by 100s, town elections can be decided by 5-10 votes. All of these positions matter, whether city counsel in a town of 200 people or state representatives in Hawaii, or governor of Chicago or mayor of LA, etc every position matters because they govern our country. There are plenty of examples where certain votes dont matter (ie red state like utah) but just because your state might give their electoral college votes to one party, your local elections are just as important. So please, stop spouting bullshit about how voting doesnt matter.

Lets play a game. Everyone decides to follow your train of thought, everyone decides their individual vote doesn't matter. Nobody votes, nobody cares about politics now. Democracy doesn't exist, our government collapses, trump is now the dictator of the USA. Good one dude.

**This post was edited on Nov 9th 2019 at 11:24:37am

Your vote is like a penny though. On a large amount of money, 1 penny doesn't matter. But all the pennies together can add up to a bunch.

Im just high. I don't really care whether you vote or not honestly.

“I don’t really give a shit about the election. I am going to be rich no matter what, so why the fuck should I care?”

ps://mobile.twitter.com/theonion/status/793831296455761920?lang=en

I love to exercise my civic rights and make my voice heard!

There are some seriously rustled jimmies in this thread.

I have never voted as I am not interested in politics. I know it effects my life, my job, my future etc I’ve been told that many times.

I believe us non voters should pay attention to a more local level as that is where a vote would make a bigger impact than say a presidential vote.

from there that single vote may trickle up to elections in higher parts of government.

im trying to pay attention to politics enough to coerce myself to vote. I am willing to listen to the reasons I should vote.

.MASSHOLE.If you're not in a swing state, your vote for the presidential election is pointless.

HOWEVA, your vote does the potential impact state and national level congressional politics.

So go vote.

**This post was edited on Nov 8th 2019 at 6:02:43pm

I mean it also matters at a state level for primaries, which can have a significant effect on the overall outcome. Joe bores me to death and basically wants to maintain the system we currently live in. I think of myself as fiscally conservative with the caveat that I believe healthcare should be off the table, and Bernie is the only one whose plan I've seen that I like. Establishment dems clearly haven't learned from 2016, cause they think centrist-do-nothing bullshit is what the swing states are looking for... I could ramble a six paragraph essay but that would be a waste of my time...

GO VOTE

**This post was edited on Nov 12th 2019 at 10:56:39am

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Dude, that's like, so deep, where's it from?

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Everyone's vote counts but personally I hate crowds so I never vote, it's my right to pursue happiness

Voting is for sheep. The big, corrupt machine fucks us all.

George W. Bush "won" the 2000 presidential election on a margin of 537 votes in Florida.

I get your point of view... but if 538 people who thought like you had gotten off their asses and voted for the other guy, they would have changed the course of history. Just sayin'.

It's your choice whether or not to vote. At the very least you should consider yourself lucky to have the option. Less than half of the world's population lives in democracies.

Both sides of the coin: Yeah, your single vote doesn't really mean anything in the long run. On the other hand: people who care about politics and support candidates and causes, can motivate dozens, hundreds, thousands or millions of people to vote the same way that they do. You enthusiasm (or lack thereof) determines how much impact your vote will have. In theory, you could start motivating people to vote for the Jolly Green Giant, build a national organization, and win the next election.

But perhaps you're too apathetic or apolitical to do that. That's okay; but just remember, while you're minding your own business and not working to defend or advance what you think is important, someone who thinks the exact opposite of you is working very, very hard to enact their agenda.

TnskiEveryone's vote counts but personally I hate crowds so I never vote, it's my right to pursue happiness

Don't have mail-in ballots where you live?

old history teacher of mine would yell his ass off telling us to vote but also eat peoples ass out if anyone would say anything slightly against his political views

ESBDon't have mail-in ballots where you live?

Yea ,I recycle those

Being interested in the policies at play is important (especially local). Becoming obsessed with politics will turn you into an anxious, decaying person. We all know that one friend, family member, coworker who makes politics their identity and conversation centerpiece. That shit is anti.

and now we are yelling about politics

At the end of the day we're all responsible for how we treat eachother and relate to our lives . As far as I know politicians stopped being role models thousands of years ago

Voting is awesome because your vote matters the same as every other person's no matter your social standing or their social standing. This is a huge privilege that only a minority of people have in the world. There are literally billions of people who would die or have died or are currently dying for this privilage that we have. You gotta vote or you are spitting in those people's eyes. Yeah your one vote may not matter much in the grand scheme of things but it matters exactly as much as every single other person's vote.

....... unless you are a superdelegate haha Bernie knows about that

^^^This

I have a loser friend-of-a-friend who works for the Massachusetts GOP (which just, lol in general) who is constantly pushing republican viewpoints and MAGA-esque shit.

The other day I said "how much does it bother you that you care about this SOOO much and my vote counts just as much as yours". He flipped his shit, I was very amused, and will now feel even better voting for whoever the dem nominee is.