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Apparently this is very sexist. Interested to see what everyone thinks, including any companies who want to chime in. Comments are a good read. Seems like female skis are dangerous waters, especially if they are pink.
"Do you think my 16 year old daughter couldn't ride your 5.0"
Discuss
**This thread was edited on Feb 25th 2019 at 10:25:18pm
Apparently this is very sexist. Interested to see what everyone thinks, including any companies who want to chime in. Comments are a good read. Seems like female skis are dangerous waters, especially if they are pink.
This'll get lost in this, but I think maybe OP isn't asking the right question.
Everybody agrees these are dope, and anybody would kit them (who can afford Faction, but that's another thread).
I think the thing people are asking is should they be marketed for just women? Like why dont they just say here's a dope ski in pink and leave it at that.
A few others mentioned, why is there even gender for skis? Legit asking too. As far as I know, it's just on what or where you ski, your level of skiing and your weight. Where does having a giant black dick fit into that.
riverarunsdeepThis'll get lost in this, but I think maybe OP isn't asking the right question.
Everybody agrees these are dope, and anybody would kit them (who can afford Faction, but that's another thread).
I think the thing people are asking is should they be marketed for just women? Like why dont they just say here's a dope ski in pink and leave it at that.
A few others mentioned, why is there even gender for skis? Legit asking too. As far as I know, it's just on what or where you ski, your level of skiing and your weight. Where does having a giant black dick fit into that.
I want dope topsheets too.
If you don't market to groups you are not representing them which could be considered sexist or racist.
If you do market to a group it is also potentially sexist and racist.
If this past year of ads and company scandal has shown anything
SuspiciousFishI did head a while back that because women tend to have a different body geometry and a lower center of gravity the ski flex etc is a little different.
To the OP- This issue is incredibly stupid and Faction needs to stick to their guns and tell the SJWs to fuck off. You can ask Star Wars and Battlefield 5 what happens when you listen to these lunatics.
There's no way the slight difference in centre of gravity between males and females would result in any noticeable differences or needs in ski flex. This sounds like marketing bs from a ski manufacturer trying to sell women's skis. If this actually made any noticeable difference then Olympic racers and such would have custom flex patterns depending on individual body shape. The differences in male/female skis are definitely all based on the assumptions that females tend to not ski as aggressively and are not as large.
VinnieFThere's no way the slight difference in centre of gravity between males and females would result in any noticeable differences or needs in ski flex. This sounds like marketing bs from a ski manufacturer trying to sell women's skis. If this actually made any noticeable difference then Olympic racers and such would have custom flex patterns depending on individual body shape. The differences in male/female skis are definitely all based on the assumptions that females tend to not ski as aggressively and are not as large.
The last I read on it said average body geometry of people of a more effeminate figure (read: tiddies) would at most only need to move their mount point 1/1.5cm forward compared to average masculine body geometries (read: no tiddies). When mount point is down to preference anyway, this effectively says there's no difference in requirements.
Actually, I've always felt womens center of gravity was further back on skis since it looks like they ski with their weight less over their skis. I just didnt know if that was due to physique or technique.
pinkcamo1000lol after seeing this diagram I am now 100% convinced this theory is marketing bs
Firstly * I do not speak for all girls/women/ladies *
and plz remember that when you read this. This is how I felt when the post was made. Candide’s was the first post and it’s the way it was introduced, for me - not the color of the skis. I also didn’t want to fall into this rabbit hole by replying here on NS bc I feel like what happened on insta wasn’t a great showing of sportsmanship & if i or any other chick replied here we could run the chance of being ‘internet yelled at,’ but you guys seem like you want to get a real point of view. So whether you hear this out or not, this is just a POV and how I personally watched the whole debacle go down.
So -
Just one thing that doesn’t help anyone - the manner in which guys began attacking girls on their comments to the post. This made me stop in my tracks & not care about what was happening with the skis at all anymore. To see the amount of meanness and hatred in the sub comments made me feel instantly upset. It seemed as though for every girl that commented, they were bombarded with language that didn’t suffice the reason they even commented.
For what, our opinions? I saw the reason why chicks have a hard time speaking up & it’s bc of the backlash from voicing their thoughts for a product that, as in the caption, is targeted for them.
For what it’s worth, I love pink. But for the direction being pointed at girls, in presumably one color option, with 2 sizes & 100 made, it seemed like a step back for a brand as looked up to as faction. Because, as you guys have said and know very well, there are PLENTY of companies right now that have made sick sticks for whoever likes them - non-gender associated and in a plentiful range of sizes.
I think the ladies call out separated girls specifically. Which for one, great! we get a women’s ski from faction - but for two, are we not good enough for the men’s ski? Which, wrapping back to my point, is part of why I believe the comments blew up.
I saw Steve even commented on Candide’s post & I 100% agree with what he’s said. Having an opinion is completely different from raging out. Girls will buy these - no matter how many other girls won’t.
Lastly, and to tack on to the above about the truthfulness of Steve’s comment, a lot of people were saying in the comments that “if you don’t like it then don’t buy it.” I think the underlying issue is that females WANT to buy & support it. We LOVE skiing and want to rip on planks that are as badass as the guys, whether if they are pink, black, or camouflage. And again, plenty of brands have already given us this. Maybe we just had a higher expectation for faction or the likeness of any other product in any industry since we’ve seen other companies adjust to some of these opinions over the last few years.
This is all taken from just the post, which again was the first thing I saw released about these skis & what I would consider inspired the rush of comments of a lot of different opinions. I think faction is a great brand, and all brands make mistakes sometimes - and by far this is a little one, just in a small community where the upset can spread quickly (& just hope that they or others never hop on the Gucci blackface or Burberry noose wave, yikes). And opinions are like assholes, we all have one 🤷🏼♀️ idk if this helped or hurt anyone’s views here but I hope, if anything, it gives a little bit of insight as to the events that followed from a pinkname pov.
TheSmokinLFirstly * I do not speak for all girls/women/ladies *
and plz remember that when you read this. This is how I felt when the post was made. Candide’s was the first post and it’s the way it was introduced, for me - not the color of the skis. I also didn’t want to fall into this rabbit hole by replying here on NS bc I feel like what happened on insta wasn’t a great showing of sportsmanship & if i or any other chick replied here we could run the chance of being ‘internet yelled at,’ but you guys seem like you want to get a real point of view. So whether you hear this out or not, this is just a POV and how I personally watched the whole debacle go down.
So -
Just one thing that doesn’t help anyone - the manner in which guys began attacking girls on their comments to the post. This made me stop in my tracks & not care about what was happening with the skis at all anymore. To see the amount of meanness and hatred in the sub comments made me feel instantly upset. It seemed as though for every girl that commented, they were bombarded with language that didn’t suffice the reason they even commented.
For what, our opinions? I saw the reason why chicks have a hard time speaking up & it’s bc of the backlash from voicing their thoughts for a product that, as in the caption, is targeted for them.
For what it’s worth, I love pink. But for the direction being pointed at girls, in presumably one color option, with 2 sizes & 100 made, it seemed like a step back for a brand as looked up to as faction. Because, as you guys have said and know very well, there are PLENTY of companies right now that have made sick sticks for whoever likes them - non-gender associated and in a plentiful range of sizes.
I think the ladies call out separated girls specifically. Which for one, great! we get a women’s ski from faction - but for two, are we not good enough for the men’s ski? Which, wrapping back to my point, is part of why I believe the comments blew up.
I saw Steve even commented on Candide’s post & I 100% agree with what he’s said. Having an opinion is completely different from raging out. Girls will buy these - no matter how many other girls won’t.
Lastly, and to tack on to the above about the truthfulness of Steve’s comment, a lot of people were saying in the comments that “if you don’t like it then don’t buy it.” I think the underlying issue is that females WANT to buy & support it. We LOVE skiing and want to rip on planks that are as badass as the guys, whether if they are pink, black, or camouflage. And again, plenty of brands have already given us this. Maybe we just had a higher expectation for faction or the likeness of any other product in any industry since we’ve seen other companies adjust to some of these opinions over the last few years.
This is all taken from just the post, which again was the first thing I saw released about these skis & what I would consider inspired the rush of comments of a lot of different opinions. I think faction is a great brand, and all brands make mistakes sometimes - and by far this is a little one, just in a small community where the upset can spread quickly (& just hope that they or others never hop on the Gucci blackface or Burberry noose wave, yikes). And opinions are like assholes, we all have one 🤷🏼♀️ idk if this helped or hurt anyone’s views here but I hope, if anything, it gives a little bit of insight as to the events that followed from a pinkname pov.
You are overthinking this. "Are we not good enough for the men's ski?" This is totally projecting. Faction made a limited edition white ski for women with pink highlights. The fact that Faction made a ski with a traditionally feminine aesthetic could also be interpreted as that they are catering to women by acknowledging their existence and influence in the community of skiers, in addition to your interpretation. Is there anything inherently wrong with people having an option of a feminine design?
Also, if girls are going to buy the ski like you said, why are people upset? Let the girls who like it buy the ski and don't invalidate them or Faction. Besides, they are also releasing a men's/unisex ski lineup that is black with pink highlights so I doubt that they see pink as an exclusively feminine color anyway.
The comments on Faction's post were basically unanimous in backlash against the color. I didn't see anyone using the kind of language you described on Instagram nor in this thread. "chicks have a hard time speaking up because they will get backlash" You can't expect to not get backlash for an opinion if most people in a community (NS in this example) find logical flaws with the opinion, just because you spoke up. Also, the comments on Faction's instagram generally are not in support of the colorway, so I wouldn't say that this situation is particularly biased against the women speaking up.
TheSmokinLFirstly * I do not speak for all girls/women/ladies *
and plz remember that when you read this. This is how I felt when the post was made. Candide’s was the first post and it’s the way it was introduced, for me - not the color of the skis. I also didn’t want to fall into this rabbit hole by replying here on NS bc I feel like what happened on insta wasn’t a great showing of sportsmanship & if i or any other chick replied here we could run the chance of being ‘internet yelled at,’ but you guys seem like you want to get a real point of view. So whether you hear this out or not, this is just a POV and how I personally watched the whole debacle go down.
So -
Just one thing that doesn’t help anyone - the manner in which guys began attacking girls on their comments to the post. This made me stop in my tracks & not care about what was happening with the skis at all anymore. To see the amount of meanness and hatred in the sub comments made me feel instantly upset. It seemed as though for every girl that commented, they were bombarded with language that didn’t suffice the reason they even commented.
For what, our opinions? I saw the reason why chicks have a hard time speaking up & it’s bc of the backlash from voicing their thoughts for a product that, as in the caption, is targeted for them.
For what it’s worth, I love pink. But for the direction being pointed at girls, in presumably one color option, with 2 sizes & 100 made, it seemed like a step back for a brand as looked up to as faction. Because, as you guys have said and know very well, there are PLENTY of companies right now that have made sick sticks for whoever likes them - non-gender associated and in a plentiful range of sizes.
I think the ladies call out separated girls specifically. Which for one, great! we get a women’s ski from faction - but for two, are we not good enough for the men’s ski? Which, wrapping back to my point, is part of why I believe the comments blew up.
I saw Steve even commented on Candide’s post & I 100% agree with what he’s said. Having an opinion is completely different from raging out. Girls will buy these - no matter how many other girls won’t.
Lastly, and to tack on to the above about the truthfulness of Steve’s comment, a lot of people were saying in the comments that “if you don’t like it then don’t buy it.” I think the underlying issue is that females WANT to buy & support it. We LOVE skiing and want to rip on planks that are as badass as the guys, whether if they are pink, black, or camouflage. And again, plenty of brands have already given us this. Maybe we just had a higher expectation for faction or the likeness of any other product in any industry since we’ve seen other companies adjust to some of these opinions over the last few years.
This is all taken from just the post, which again was the first thing I saw released about these skis & what I would consider inspired the rush of comments of a lot of different opinions. I think faction is a great brand, and all brands make mistakes sometimes - and by far this is a little one, just in a small community where the upset can spread quickly (& just hope that they or others never hop on the Gucci blackface or Burberry noose wave, yikes). And opinions are like assholes, we all have one 🤷🏼♀️ idk if this helped or hurt anyone’s views here but I hope, if anything, it gives a little bit of insight as to the events that followed from a pinkname pov.
Do you think there is any truth to the thought that women should ride a women's ski because of differences in body geometry? The way that this argument was presented to me is that women want their own skis, but the fact that they are usually "shrinked and pinked" is offensive to the seriousness of women in the sport. I know that you said that you don't speak for all women but do you think most women want a women's ski with a non-gendered color scheme, or just to ride "mens" skis? I honestly can't tell if the need for a women-specific ski is marketing bs or not.
TheVictatorYou are overthinking this. "Are we not good enough for the men's ski?"
in addition to your interpretation. Is there anything inherently wrong with people having an option of a feminine design?
Also, if girls are going to buy the ski like you said, why are people upset? Let the girls who like it buy the ski and don't invalidate them or Faction.
The comments on Faction's post were basically unanimous in backlash against the color. I didn't see anyone using the kind of language you described on Instagram nor in this thread. "
I hope I’m not overthinking this. Again this is just how I saw this play out. I truly don’t think there’s anything wrong with opinions towards the feminine design. Boys like pink too.
Im really not trying to invalidate anyone - I like faction. I think the direction maybe was slightly misinterpreted bc of the way Candide posted it. I know you’re referring to factions post, but I’m specifically speaking on candides post - not NS, not factions - which I mentioned above. Look at the comments there. You will find every one of the statements that were really just kind of belittling and dirty.
TheSmokinLI hope I’m not overthinking this. Again this is just how I saw this play out. I truly don’t think there’s anything wrong with opinions towards the feminine design. Boys like pink too.
Im really not trying to invalidate anyone - I like faction. I think the direction maybe was slightly misinterpreted bc of the way Candide posted it. I know you’re referring to factions post, but I’m specifically speaking on candides post - not NS, not factions - which I mentioned above. Look at the comments there. You will find every one of the statements that were really just kind of belittling and dirty.
It honestly does suck that people were lashing out like that then. Still though, I think people are generally overreacting about this. Even if it bothers them, it is one ski design. They can let it go. And same goes for the people who are being nasty towards the women. But anyway, I don't think Faction is at all trying to designate pink as a female-exclusive color; look at this pic of their 2020 lineup:
The Dictator series and the Prodigy series, which are unisex, both have colorways that, in previous years, could 1000% pass as women's exclusive skis. Faction definitely seems to think that pink and pastels are cool for men as well as women. The Mademoiselle is only slightly more feminine than the men's skis in this year's lineup, but by itself it does look stereotypically girly.
In addition, I for one think the 2.0x and 1.0x have graphics that would be look sick under my manly feet.
I really appreciate you not making an angry reply to me. I was a bit worried this would dissolve into a heated debate.
IdahoeDo you think there is any truth to the thought that women should ride a women's ski because of differences in body geometry? The way that this argument was presented to me is that women want their own skis, but the fact that they are usually "shrinked and pinked" is offensive to the seriousness of women in the sport. I know that you said that you don't speak for all women but do you think most women want a women's ski with a non-gendered color scheme, or just to ride "mens" skis? I honestly can't tell if the need for a women-specific ski is marketing bs or not.
Just in my pure thoughts:
I think that there’s a little bit of column A and a little bit of column B at play with women’s balance points for equipment and marketing. We are shaped differently, we are built from nature for different reasons than men - and balance points are relevant. I’d say so more in the mount point than the ski itself though. However women tend to be lighter/smaller (not ALWAYS!! but tend to be) so the skis in turn are made to adjust for those differences. Still, marketing plays a huge role - girls like things made for girls & that is true. I think there’s a niche of women within the ski world (& other xsports) that wear men’s bc they want to step away from, say, pink, as an example as what’s happening here. And thus the mixed feedback that leads to your question. And your question is super valid. Which I don’t think I have a great answer to.
So yeah, I think it’s a mix of both - the need for a women’s specific ski is marketing and fact based, it’s truly a combined notion.
This is absolute speculation: I think preference of what girls want to ride is the zone that’s hard to understand bc you have chicks who beat the hell out of their shit and therefore prefer the beefier ski made for men & girls who ride a few times a year that are ok with something lighter and softer. Not to say companies don’t have beefy women’s skis! Just generally on the thought of women preferring men’s skis.
TheVictatorIt honestly does suck that people were lashing out like that then. Still though, I think people are generally overreacting about this. Even if it bothers them, it is one ski design. They can let it go. And same goes for the people who are being nasty towards the women. But anyway, I don't think Faction is at all trying to designate pink as a female-exclusive color; look at this pic of their 2020 lineup:
The Dictator series and the Prodigy series, which are unisex, both have colorways that, in previous years, could 1000% pass as women's exclusive skis. Faction definitely seems to think that pink and pastels are cool for men as well as women. The Mademoiselle is only slightly more feminine than the men's skis in this year's lineup, but by itself it does look stereotypically girly.
In addition, I for one think the 2.0x and 1.0x have graphics that would be look sick under my manly feet.
I really appreciate you not making an angry reply to me. I was a bit worried this would dissolve into a heated debate.
Yeah I don’t want to argue anymore than you do lol. I wrote my post bc I felt like you guys were genuinely looking for answers.
I absolutely agree with what you wrote above too. Those graphics from their line are sick with the pastel, pink, and neon. And I’d betcha there’s chicks on their older models who will be buying these 2020s also because they love the colors, not just the shapes.
I really think the offense happened in candides post bc it said something so simple as “for the ladies.” And that’s bc I followed candide, I didn’t see factions post which is why I’ve only commented on the likeness of candides which apparently had a worse response than factions.
Plus the term unisex, as those in years past have been labeled, is inviting to anyone, girls legit can’t be offended by that - and if they are then I’ve got no answers for it. Lol
TheVictatorIt honestly does suck that people were lashing out like that then. Still though, I think people are generally overreacting about this. Even if it bothers them, it is one ski design. They can let it go. And same goes for the people who are being nasty towards the women. But anyway, I don't think Faction is at all trying to designate pink as a female-exclusive color; look at this pic of their 2020 lineup:
The Dictator series and the Prodigy series, which are unisex, both have colorways that, in previous years, could 1000% pass as women's exclusive skis. Faction definitely seems to think that pink and pastels are cool for men as well as women. The Mademoiselle is only slightly more feminine than the men's skis in this year's lineup, but by itself it does look stereotypically girly.
In addition, I for one think the 2.0x and 1.0x have graphics that would be look sick under my manly feet.
I really appreciate you not making an angry reply to me. I was a bit worried this would dissolve into a heated debate.
This is the piece that is missing - if people saw the lineup i don't think this would be an arguement.
BigPurpleSkiSuitActually, I've always felt womens center of gravity was further back on skis since it looks like they ski with their weight less over their skis. I just didnt know if that was due to physique or technique.
have you ever watched a womens ski race? you're just seeing different technique. While there are general differences in the shape of men's and women's bodies, I think this homie summed it up pretty well:
razors-chazThe last I read on it said average body geometry of people of a more effeminate figure (read: tiddies) would at most only need to move their mount point 1/1.5cm forward compared to average masculine body geometries (read: no tiddies). When mount point is down to preference anyway, this effectively says there's no difference in requirements.
This is why I hate 2019. Who cares? They said pink is a girls color. I like pink, I think my next surfboard will be fluoro pink. But I'm a dude. Should I listen to people on the internet and believe pink is a girls only color, or should I make my own choice and get a pink board. In 2019 it seems like I should listen to somebody on the internet and go complain on social media.
It's called marketing. There are girls who will not buy a ski that isn't labeled as a girls skis. I've been asked if there are girls surfboards. It's a silly concept if you think about it, but most people don't, which is why marketing of this sort succeeds. Although perhaps faction's marketing team should have seen this coming, as posting anything gender related on any platform is asking for it in 2019, when it would have more wise to just say it's for people who like pink and leave it at that.